|
Post by sacerdotal on Jul 4, 2013 14:33:02 GMT -5
In another thread, Fixit asked the readers if they would send their professing children to the following "hate site"? www.2x2ministry.org/sex_crimes/index.phpI responded that I would because my wife and I talk about everything 2x2 related with our professing kids- Why we believe what we believe, where we disagree with the workers, and why we do so, and we look to the bible as our guide. It is a very healthy exercise. So, I followed Fixit's suggestion, and went and read from the site. The following quote was on the site about the workers: "Thoughts are not kept in check by faith in God. They don't live by the Bible. Their consciences are seared. "Do you think that that statement is just the raving of an angry, disgruntled ex?
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Jul 4, 2013 15:04:40 GMT -5
In another thread, Fixit asked the readers if they would send their professing children to the following "hate site"? www.2x2ministry.org/sex_crimes/index.phpI responded that I would because my wife and I talk about everything 2x2 related with our professing kids- Why we believe what we believe, where we disagree with the workers, and why we do so, and we look to the bible as our guide. It is a very healthy exercise. So, I followed Fixit's suggestion, and went and read from the site. The following quote was on the site about the workers: "Thoughts are not kept in check by faith in God. They don't live by the Bible. Their consciences are seared. "Do you think that that statement is just the raving of an angry, disgruntled ex? Whether right or wrong, the statement is a matter of opinion. There are many people who would disagree with a statement like that, and thus, it creates additional resistance in the battle for hearts and minds in creating awareness of the CSA issue. In addition, that remark, if on the WINGS site, could distance victims inside the fellowship from the site, and prevent them from seeking help.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Jul 4, 2013 16:29:30 GMT -5
In another thread, Fixit asked the readers if they would send their professing children to the following "hate site"? www.2x2ministry.org/sex_crimes/index.phpI responded that I would because my wife and I talk about everything 2x2 related with our professing kids- Why we believe what we believe, where we disagree with the workers, and why we do so, and we look to the bible as our guide. It is a very healthy exercise. So, I followed Fixit's suggestion, and went and read from the site. The following quote was on the site about the workers: "Thoughts are not kept in check by faith in God. They don't live by the Bible. Their consciences are seared. "Do you think that that statement is just the raving of an angry, disgruntled ex? Whether right or wrong, the statement is a matter of opinion. There are many people who would disagree with a statement like that, and thus, it creates additional resistance in the battle for hearts and minds in creating awareness of the CSA issue. In addition, that remark, if on the WINGS site, could distance victims inside the fellowship from the site, and prevent them from seeking help. Right. It is a matter of opinion. Much on Wings is a matter of opinion. The entire Wings site is a matter of opinion- the opinion of the Wings members, the opinion of law enforcement folks, the opinion of psychologists, the opinion of ex's, the opinion of current 2x2s, etc. When we read the newspaper, lots (maybe most) is a matter of opinion. Why not trust that people have enough sense to make up their own mind to filter in the good and filter out the bad? You can do it. I can do it. Most of our friends can do it. But, for some reason, when the subject is religious in nature. . . folks aren't allowed to have opinions. The reason is obvious- religion itself is made up of the opinions of men about a subject that cannot be proved.
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Jul 4, 2013 17:51:12 GMT -5
In another thread, Fixit asked the readers if they would send their professing children to the following "hate site"? www.2x2ministry.org/sex_crimes/index.phpI responded that I would because my wife and I talk about everything 2x2 related with our professing kids- Why we believe what we believe, where we disagree with the workers, and why we do so, and we look to the bible as our guide. It is a very healthy exercise. So, I followed Fixit's suggestion, and went and read from the site. The following quote was on the site about the workers: "Thoughts are not kept in check by faith in God. They don't live by the Bible. Their consciences are seared. "Do you think that that statement is just the raving of an angry, disgruntled ex? I would want the weak and vulnerable around me to know about the dangers in the meeting. Can't fathom the logic of staying quiet.
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Jul 4, 2013 19:06:27 GMT -5
Whether right or wrong, the statement is a matter of opinion. There are many people who would disagree with a statement like that, and thus, it creates additional resistance in the battle for hearts and minds in creating awareness of the CSA issue. In addition, that remark, if on the WINGS site, could distance victims inside the fellowship from the site, and prevent them from seeking help. Right. It is a matter of opinion. Much on Wings is a matter of opinion. The entire Wings site is a matter of opinion- the opinion of the Wings members, the opinion of law enforcement folks, the opinion of psychologists, the opinion of ex's, the opinion of current 2x2s, etc. When we read the newspaper, lots (maybe most) is a matter of opinion. Why not trust that people have enough sense to make up their own mind to filter in the good and filter out the bad? You can do it. I can do it. Most of our friends can do it. But, for some reason, when the subject is religious in nature. . . folks aren't allowed to have opinions. The reason is obvious- religion itself is made up of the opinions of men about a subject that cannot be proved. The most important stuff isn't a matter of opinion, and that's what we want to get across to people. Child sexual abuse exists in the workers' ministry. Concrete measures can be taken to reduce the incidence of child sexual abuse. The emotional damage from CSA can be horrendous. None of that is a matter of opinion. All of it is not universally known or accepted among the friends. Arm people with the right information and watch what happens.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2013 20:35:57 GMT -5
Whether right or wrong, the statement is a matter of opinion. There are many people who would disagree with a statement like that, and thus, it creates additional resistance in the battle for hearts and minds in creating awareness of the CSA issue. In addition, that remark, if on the WINGS site, could distance victims inside the fellowship from the site, and prevent them from seeking help. Right. It is a matter of opinion. Much on Wings is a matter of opinion. The entire Wings site is a matter of opinion- the opinion of the Wings members, the opinion of law enforcement folks, the opinion of psychologists, the opinion of ex's, the opinion of current 2x2s, etc. When we read the newspaper, lots (maybe most) is a matter of opinion. Why not trust that people have enough sense to make up their own mind to filter in the good and filter out the bad? You can do it. I can do it. Most of our friends can do it. But, for some reason, when the subject is religious in nature. . . folks aren't allowed to have opinions. The reason is obvious- religion itself is made up of the opinions of men about a subject that cannot be proved. The idea of letting people "filter out" the good from the bad is a bit like owning a restaurant and letting clientele pick out the flies from their soup. It's not a matter of trusting the clientele's ability to do, but most will just get up and walk out. A restaurant will strive to serve the best. An informational web site like WINGS is the same. One goal of WINGS is to provide information that is useful to the target audience: the F&W's and victims of F&W's. Providing huge amounts of unsorted data is not the goal. There is a significant difference. Data is sorted out to make information which is used to make decisions. A web site chock full of data would be useless to most people except the very few who have the time and patience to turn the data into their own useful information. Any good web site will lock on to its goals like a laser beam on a target object by providing relevant information useful to the intended clientele. WINGS is in the midst of an ongoing process to do just that which has been long overdue.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Jul 4, 2013 22:07:52 GMT -5
Any good web site will lock on to its goals like a laser beam on a target object by providing relevant information useful to the intended clientele. WINGS is in the midst of an ongoing process to do just that which has been long overdue. Interesting. So, is the Wings site going to become an agnostic CSA site with no mention of 2x2s at all? That seems to be the goal.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jul 4, 2013 22:15:04 GMT -5
Any good web site will lock on to its goals like a laser beam on a target object by providing relevant information useful to the intended clientele. WINGS is in the midst of an ongoing process to do just that which has been long overdue. Interesting. So, is the Wings site going to become an agnostic CSA site with no mention of 2x2s at all? That seems to be the goal. Clearly, you should read WINGS objectives. WINGS has been created by victims/survivors who have suffered Child Sexual Abuse (CSA) within the fellowship of friends and workers, together with individuals who have been both directly and indirectly impacted by CSA, because we care about CSA and care about the fellowship. Our objective is to provide information, support and guidance on every aspect of CSA and to support victims of CSA. Our ultimate hope is to encourage change within the fellowship in order to protect others from the devastation that occurs through CSA, especially when its impact is trivialized or ignored. Through networking with other victims/survivors, we can be more effective agents for change. Through learning that our stories are not isolated, we can become less isolated emotionally which will have an exponential impact on our individual healing processes. Abuse is made possible by secrecy and shame; healing can be made possible by the honesty, courage, pain and anger, which we can channel toward reaching the following goals: To support victims/survivors who were sexually abused within the fellowship. To encourage and support the establishment of “church” policies that effectively address the problem of CSA within the fellowship, the healing processes of members as well as victims/survivors and the proper handling of its perpetrators. Make it difficult for child sexual abuse perpetrators to operate within the Friends and Workers fellowship by educating members about prevention and protection. WINGS is focused on the “Truth” fellowship for several reasons: CSA has occurred within the fellowship. We care about CSA and we care about the fellowship. The fellowship holds in common some unique doctrines and beliefs, often striving to be “different” and set apart. The fellowship has isolated itself from the larger community of Christianity which has resulted in a prevailing belief that the Friends and Workers fellowship is not susceptible to abuses plaguing other denominations. A typical response is that God will cleanse “His fellowship” in His own time and way and that secular law does not apply. The lack of effective administrative procedures for helping primary and secondary victims/survivors heal from abuse within the group. The silencing of victims/survivors who are too intimidated and traumatized to speak out publicly about the injustices that they have suffered at the hands of workers, elders and friends.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Jul 4, 2013 22:22:24 GMT -5
Interesting. So, is the Wings site going to become an agnostic CSA site with no mention of 2x2s at all? That seems to be the goal. Clearly, you should read WINGS objectives. WINGS has been created by victims/survivors who have suffered Child Sexual Abuse (CSA) within the fellowship of friends and workers, together with individuals who have been both directly and indirectly impacted by CSA, because we care about CSA and care about the fellowship. Our objective is to provide information, support and guidance on every aspect of CSA and to support victims of CSA. Our ultimate hope is to encourage change within the fellowship in order to protect others from the devastation that occurs through CSA, especially when its impact is trivialized or ignored. Through networking with other victims/survivors, we can be more effective agents for change. Through learning that our stories are not isolated, we can become less isolated emotionally which will have an exponential impact on our individual healing processes. Abuse is made possible by secrecy and shame; healing can be made possible by the honesty, courage, pain and anger, which we can channel toward reaching the following goals: To support victims/survivors who were sexually abused within the fellowship. To encourage and support the establishment of “church” policies that effectively address the problem of CSA within the fellowship, the healing processes of members as well as victims/survivors and the proper handling of its perpetrators. Make it difficult for child sexual abuse perpetrators to operate within the Friends and Workers fellowship by educating members about prevention and protection. WINGS is focused on the “Truth” fellowship for several reasons: CSA has occurred within the fellowship. We care about CSA and we care about the fellowship. The fellowship holds in common some unique doctrines and beliefs, often striving to be “different” and set apart. The fellowship has isolated itself from the larger community of Christianity which has resulted in a prevailing belief that the Friends and Workers fellowship is not susceptible to abuses plaguing other denominations. A typical response is that God will cleanse “His fellowship” in His own time and way and that secular law does not apply. The lack of effective administrative procedures for helping primary and secondary victims/survivors heal from abuse within the group. The silencing of victims/survivors who are too intimidated and traumatized to speak out publicly about the injustices that they have suffered at the hands of workers, elders and friends. Got it. Now, how are you going to do that if you are actively working against one of your own stated goals: "The silencing of victims/survivors who are too intimidated and traumatized to speak out publicly about the injustices that they have suffered at the hands of workers, elders, and friends." I think you need to add to the list, "and us." It seems to me that the current Wings board is trying to kick those that think the fellowship is a steaming dunghill of corruption off of the victim list. Thereby- intimidating and traumatizing them all over again. If they want to call the fellowship a cult, so be it. It is their opinion, and there is evidence to support that opinion, just as their is evidence to support that it isn't. Why do you care anyway, the site if for the victims of the fellowship- or so you say with one side of your mouth- and then say something else out of the other side.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Jul 4, 2013 22:27:45 GMT -5
Since WINGS has been being pretty well beat up by a few vocal people here on the TMB, I was wondering if they would mind commenting on the report that was given to the Victorian Parliament's INQUIRY INTO THE HANDLING OF CHILD ABUSE BY RELIGIOUS AND OTHER ORGANISATIONS. Just scroll down the page of submissions and click on the one titled WINGS. www.parliament.vic.gov.au/fcdc/article/1789Does this submission appear to be in line with the belief that: (in Edgar Massey's words) Wings has simply become a new marketing tool for 2x2 ideology? It should be noted that this certainly isn't the first (nor will be the last) time that WINGS has submitted information concerning CSA issues within the fellowship to concerned authorities. As Clearday noted on another thread in response to a post by sacerdotal: What did you think of the WINGS Parliamentary Commission submission? Do you think this is important? Do you see any relevance in it? Do you see a WINGS board that slobbers all over the workers while doing their bidding? Did you know that this isn't just a slap dash submission, but it is one that has been formally accepted by the Government and gives WINGS parliamentary immunity over its public use?
So far..... no response to this question to sacerdotal about the submission, although this is a post in which he outlines his feelings about whether WINGS is concerned about CSA: And to Edgar, how does that submission fit in with your perception of WINGS, fairly well highlighted in your post where you stated: I would really appreciate if all of you who have been criticizing how WINGS operates would give your thoughts on that submission, and how it fits in with the statements being made that we are under the influence of workers, and somehow have lost sight of our purpose. No response to this question from those who have been criticizing us will also speak quite loudly to those reading here.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Jul 4, 2013 22:42:49 GMT -5
Of all those who have their story listed on the BTS site, can you share which of those feel this way?
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Jul 4, 2013 22:47:06 GMT -5
Of all those who have their story listed on the BTS site, can you share which of those feel this way? Nice try, Scott. That question is for Fixit. Evidently you feel the same way that I do, and I appreciate it. Ask Fixit why he/she has an issue with the letters that have links to what he/she referred to as "hate sites". Ask Fixit why he doesn't like the victims to refer to the 2x2s as a cult and doesn't want their letters posted. I replied to Fixit, if I had been sodomized by a worker, and had it covered up by the workers, as some of the victims have- I would hope that Wings would post my letter telling them to all burn in hell, if that is the way that I felt toward them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2013 23:43:07 GMT -5
Any good web site will lock on to its goals like a laser beam on a target object by providing relevant information useful to the intended clientele. WINGS is in the midst of an ongoing process to do just that which has been long overdue. Interesting. So, is the Wings site going to become an agnostic CSA site with no mention of 2x2s at all? That seems to be the goal. Good one!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2013 23:57:06 GMT -5
I have never criticized the submission -- It is the disrespectful handling of CSA victims and their stories that has been the question -- It is the expressed motive of moving then, simply to pacify 2x2 criticism that put the entire site credibility in serious question ---Attempting to move focus from this obvious fiasco, to a completely different issue in Australia is typical 2x2 technique in 'solving issues'.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 0:05:21 GMT -5
I have never critisized the submission -- It is the handling of CSA victims and their stories that has been the question -- It is the expressed motive of moving then, simply to pacify 2x2 critisism that put the entire site credibility in serious question --- Moving focus from this fiasco to an completely different issue in Austrailia typical 2x2 technique in 'solving issues' How would you like to offer your critical assessment of the Submission? Or are you too busy dealing with the handling of the stories?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 0:11:15 GMT -5
I have never critisized the submission -- It is the handling of CSA victims and their stories that has been the question -- It is the expressed motive of moving then, simply to pacify 2x2 critisism that put the entire site credibility in serious question --- Moving focus from this fiasco to an completely different issue in Austrailia typical 2x2 technique in 'solving issues' How would you like to offer your critical assessment of the Submission? Or are you too busy dealing with the handling of the stories? Like I clearly stated -- my complaints have never regarded the Australian submission --- Yes Clearday, the issue I and a number of others have found enormously disturbing, was Wings amazingly foolish handling of these victims stories. It is the obvious disrespect for them than has put site credibility in question. I understand your interest in attempting to move focus else where -- nice try!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 0:15:29 GMT -5
How would you like to offer your critical assessment of the Submission? Or are you too busy dealing with the handling of the stories? Like I clearly stated -- my complaints have never regarded the Australian submission --- Yes Clearday, the issue I and a number of others have found enormously disturbing, was Wings amazingly foolish handling of these victims stories. It is the obvious disrespect for them than has put site credibility in question. So I can take that as a no, you are not planning to read and comment on the submission? That makes sense if WINGS has lost credibility with you. What does WINGS have to do to regain credibility with you?
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Jul 5, 2013 0:26:34 GMT -5
I have never criticized the submission -- It is the disrespectful handling of CSA victims and their stories that has been the question -- It is the expressed motive of moving then, simply to pacify 2x2 criticism that put the entire site credibility in serious question ---Attempting to move focus from this obvious fiasco, to a completely different issue in Australia is typical 2x2 technique in 'solving issues'. No. You have been making statements that have nothing to do with the handling of the stories. I am not moving the focus.... you are. Didn't you make this statement (and several others which had nothing to do with the stories): That is my focus. You claim that our professed aim to deal with CSA has become secondary, and I think that is far removed from reality. You don't know what all we are involved in doing, and likely never will. The stories that you seem to focus on are there just as they always were, but for some reason you are a part of the concerted effort to discredit WINGS. For whatever reason, you seem to be focused on how we are somehow being subjected to worker interference of our stated goals, and that simply isn't true. Now, does the submission from WINGS seem to be in any way something that could be influenced by workers, or does it appear as if WINGS is not working to improve the issue as far as CSA is concerned .
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Jul 5, 2013 0:35:14 GMT -5
How would you like to offer your critical assessment of the Submission? Or are you too busy dealing with the handling of the stories? Like I clearly stated -- my complaints have never regarded the Australian submission --- Yes Clearday, the issue I and a number of others have found enormously disturbing, was Wings amazingly foolish handling of these victims stories. It is the obvious disrespect for them than has put site credibility in question. I understand your interest in attempting to move focus else where -- nice try! Can you tell me which of those victims have told you that they felt disrespected by WINGS in regard to their stories? That would be a good place to start. The ONLY abuse survivor that I have spoken with (Jean) is fine with the change. Likewise, it appears as if Bob is also fine with it. Once he understood that his stories were still a click away, and not under any worker control/influence he seems to be fine with what we have done. (please correct me if I am wrong Bob.) It really doesn't appear as if you have even read on the website, as it is pretty clear as to our current stand on the stories: Here is the page on WINGS that deals with the stories: wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/victim-stories/WINGS is aware of numerous cases of CSA within the fellowship. Some of those survivors have provided us with a narrative of their story and given WINGS permission for publication. The reports are a harrowing record of evil and also in many of the older cases, of the church members’ failure to act properly and promptly when the abuse had been identified. Jean was one of these courageous people. Her story helped inspire several people to start the WINGS website so that victims could be supported better, CSA accusations could be taken seriously and dealt with properly, and the fellowship might be rid of the curse of CSA. Her story, and the ‘apology’ of ex-overseer of Texas Ira Hobbs, can be read at Jean’s Story on the WINGS Breaking the Silence forum.
More than 20 personal stories are posted on the survivor stories section of WINGS Breaking the Silence Forum.
Every word of every survivor’s story is precious to them and reflects the complex circumstances of their abuse. The stories involve immediate and distant family, close friends, friends and workers in the fellowship and authorities. Many times some or all of those parties have failed in their duty to prevent abuse and to react properly to allegations of abuse. Although some of these stories occurred many years ago in circumstances that we might think no longer exist, they should be used as a warning to guard against any possibility of future CSA criminal activity.
Some stories canvas a spectrum of family disorder including emotional, physical, sexual and spiritual abuse. It is not possible or necessary to determine the root cause of such disorder; it is just necessary to work to support survivors and to prevent further abuse. This web site is focused purely on child sexual abuse but recognizes the importance of also dealing with all types of abuse.
Without intending to detract from the full stories that survivors have written, the following brief extracts from various survivor stories illustrate some of the life-long anguish and harm that is caused by child sexual abuse. The extracts are meant to alert every reader to the need to be alert, to believe victims and show empathy to them.
Nobody who has been sexually molested as a child will ever get well. They may get help but they won’t ever be completely healed. The things that you have done or do to get attention stay with you forever; memories of the people that you hurt stays with you forever. Your shame is always with you. You do things that you never would have done if the abuse never happened. It changes who you are. It confuses you and you do things without knowing why you do them or knowing what the damage could be to other people. Smells, thoughts, songs, even touch may trigger a bad memory and all at once consume you and leave you paralyzed both mentally and physically. Sometimes to the point where you can’t leave the house for days. I don’t care what anybody says—-a sexually abused child is never completely healed. The regrets almost consume me at times. There is always a part of you who hates who you are and wished you had lived differently. The guilt plagues you and you try to compensate for it by overdoing for others, just to make them like you. It’s so hard to trust anyone.
My whole life has been affected by what this Perpetrator did to me. I have absolutely nothing to gain by lying, and I risk much to lose by telling the truth.
I can honestly say that the abuse has affected me at all stages of my life. It is something that is always there and continually has an effect on the way I think about myself, my relationships to others, how I see myself as a parent, a person. The dynamics of this abuse are overwhelming. I wonder what my family – my relationships would have been like without its presence.
I’ve kept this a secret until the past year, but it has affected me negatively in many ways throughout my life.
I urge other parents to listen to their children and be aware that little children DO NOT make these allegations up!
my study of abuse issues has convinced me that sympathy is not enough – abuse victims need empathy to give them the strength to heal. Hopefully what I can say here will encourage more people to show the needed empathy for victims.
I didn’t know who to tell, and what to tell to whichever person I told. My instincts told me that the risks involved with telling someone were greater and less manageable than saying nothing and dealing with it myself, so that’s what I did.
I began to think it was my fault. I am still working on that issue in my counseling sessions.
I still feel some shame, I still have anger which I am working on through counseling, and at times I do get suicidal. So as I get free, I feel they have less control over me.
God was and is everything to me. By the time I was 10 years old I put words to what I had always felt – I wish I was never born. By the time I was 12 I knew I could do something about it. At that point I always had a plan and always had access to the plan. The only reason I never committed suicide is because I believed in God and God was the only reason to live. Even today there are times when I deal with these feelings, and still the only reason I live is God. My whole life was about surviving from one day to the next. And sometimes from one moment to the next. With rage running rampant and not knowing when it will be next – Always this state of fear – Always a state of torment.
Growing up never once did I feel loved. I learned to hate myself and feel I was the worst horrible person there was. I began to believe that no matter what I did or any friends I had that I would make the situation bad. I felt that this hate and badness was an intrinsic part of me. I hated myself for being a strong person – my child reasoning was that if I wasn’t strong that I wouldn’t have to deal with the horrible things that happened. I grew up feeling less than, inadequate, bad, hopeless. Always saying I am sorry to everyone for everything. Feeling that it is ALL my fault. I am to blame and I am responsible.
Once I started therapy nearly 15 years ago, my therapist asked if I wanted to report the abuse. I didn’t at that time because of how emotionally fragile I was and I could not face the abusers. It was a horrendous deal just to begin to talk about what really happened as a child in the setting of a therapist’s office – Let alone facing those who hurt me so terribly and being raised in absolute fear.
I still am in therapy and will be for a while yet. I wish it didn’t take so long – there have been twists and turns in my life some helpful to my healing and others not. I have come a long ways and I am not the person I was at the beginning – and yet I am not at the end of this journey. I know God will keep me through it and it is He who has brought the people in my life to help me when He has.
In common with most victims of sexual assault, I suffered feelings of guilt. A number of questions bothered me – for example: Why did I allow it to happen? Why did I not immediately tell my parents? It has only been in the past few years that I have realised that I was in no way to blame and I now feel absolutely free to talk about the abuse, without any shame or guilt.
I told her the whole story & they got help for me straight away with counseling. To Mom & Dad’s credit they never questioned my word…. the intuition of parents! They had seen changes in me in those three years & there were challenges with me that they couldn’t understand. I could not even begin to imagine how to explain to my parents at the age of 13 why I was lashing out at my family and so difficult to be around…
There is uniqueness to the violation of a child’s sexuality. There is a subtle difference in the way that violation changes a child that is like nothing else.
I had to express my thoughts to break these spiritual chains of bondage that has been affecting me over the past 25-30 years. I was hoping by just sharing this story it would help me heal and maybe someone else would step forward with their story as well? I feel a lot better since I shared this story with everyone. JEAN’S STORY
Anon 1 – 1997
Anon 2 – 2008
Anon 3
Bob 1
Bob 2
Carly
Charles Mattison Experiences
Dale Gardner letters 2008
Dale R
Kent – Long Story
Kent – Brief Story
Leigh
Lindy
Mike
Nichole
Robert
Scott
Sheri
Victoria
William
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jul 5, 2013 0:38:46 GMT -5
The title and subject of this thread is the Wings submission. Posts that continue the bickering between Wings antagonists are unnecessary and unseemly on this thread. I intend to delete any further posts that are not directly on subject, and those above can be moved to another thread or they will be deleted.
Thank you for helping readers who like to read threads that are on topic.
Admin
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 0:57:40 GMT -5
The Australian Submission is irrelevant in Edgar's view from what I understand.
The string of logic from Edgar runs this way: WINGS has lost all credibility due to having two domains for victim stories and therefore merely a group to market the workers' system. Therefore, the Australian Submission cannot be commented on due to the loss of credibility of WINGS.
I wonder if others will not comment on the Australian Submission for the same reason of lack of credibility of WINGS? Are there any other reasons why the Australian Submission is not being commented on?
Is this post on the Australian Submission sufficient to pass Admin standards for being "on topic"?
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jul 5, 2013 0:57:56 GMT -5
Scott, Edgar and Clearday, you have opportunity now to move the posts above that are not directly on topic to another thread where they would be relevant. It is important that threads are not sidetracked because believe me, it annoys a lot of readers. Say one hour grace.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Jul 5, 2013 1:02:48 GMT -5
Scott, Edgar and Clearday, you have opportunity now to move the posts above that are not directly on topic to another thread where they would be relevant. It is important that threads are not sidetracked because believe me, it annoys a lot of readers. Say one hour grace. Uh..... All of them? The original post by me was asking for Edgar and Sacerdotal to respond to questions in regard to statements they made concerning WINGS, and how the submission certainly didn't line up with their statements. Pretty hard for them to respond if that post is gone....... However, another thread simply for general discussion about the submission might be more in line with what you are thinking of.......
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Jul 5, 2013 1:06:02 GMT -5
I changed the title, and now will start a new thread for general discussion about the submission.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 1:08:15 GMT -5
Scott, Edgar and Clearday, you have opportunity now to move the posts above that are not directly on topic to another thread where they would be relevant. It is important that threads are not sidetracked because believe me, it annoys a lot of readers. Say one hour grace. I have three posts specifically about the Australian Submission. You already removed one which tied into the Australian Submission which is grossly unfair and it would be annoying if I was the sort who got annoyed at unfairness but it is what it is. Please handle these threads with a bit of equanimity and equality Admin. I would particularly request that you remove all threads which have nothing to do with the 2x2 church whatsoever. Every day new threads are posted which have nothing to do with the TMB's limited requirements to keep topics to the 2x2 church, yet you are annoyed with 2x2-related discussion when directly or indirectly related to the thread topic. How about giving "one hour's 'grace' " to all non-2x2 related threads and posts on this site so we can discuss the 2x2 church without all that interference....specifically against the TMB rules?
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jul 5, 2013 1:10:43 GMT -5
Scott, Edgar and Clearday, you have opportunity now to move the posts above that are not directly on topic to another thread where they would be relevant. It is important that threads are not sidetracked because believe me, it annoys a lot of readers. Say one hour grace. Uh..... All of them? The original post by me was asking for Edgar and Sacerdotal to respond to questions in regard to statements they made concerning WINGS, and how the submission certainly didn't line up with their statements. Pretty hard for them to respond if that post is gone....... However, another thread simply for general discussion about the submission might be more in line with what you are thinking of....... Yes I'm aware of the intention in the OP, but nevertheless the title of this thread is WINGS submission to the Victorian Parliamentary Inquiry and that is a valid topic for a thread. Readers expect to read posts on that topic, in this thread. There is no need to start another thread for the issues concerning the questions to Edgar and Sacerdotal as TMB already has one. All posts dealing with that issue should be posted on that thread, and this thread is for discussion of the Wings submission.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Jul 5, 2013 1:13:48 GMT -5
Uh.... I already changed the title of this thread, and started a new one for general discussion of the WINGS submission. I must be in really deep doo doo now........ I think I am just going to go to bed and pretend nothing happened........
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 1:16:23 GMT -5
Uh.... I already changed the title of this thread, and started a new one for general discussion of the WINGS submission. I must be in really deep doo doo now........ I think I am just going to go to bed and pretend nothing happened........ I think a few people have been up too late, including our normally even tempered Admin.
|
|