Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 12:35:22 GMT -5
A most wonderful letter from Bau (86 years old) that came this morning. www.2x2vietnam.info/NewLetterFromBau20140212.htmTo me, it is an amazing privilege to share in his friendship, and in his spirit of determination to stand 'solid' to the calling that God has called him to. Read his poem about keeping our steps 'solid' on the heavenly course set before us. Such a strong and beautiful contrast with the advise of some here who would suggest the virtue of trudging in the mire of 2x2ism, even when it is clear that it only leads to instability, division and failure. www.2x2vietnam.infoThe letter from Bau is so sweet; what an encouragement to have his friendship.
|
|
|
Post by xuanhoan on Feb 13, 2014 5:50:41 GMT -5
My uncle Trọng and his niece asked me to post this story. He wanted to meet uncle Lyle to blame the bad spirit that the Northern American overseers have brought into his family. Cannot meet uncle Lyle here so he can read this on internet.
Uncle Trọng has 5 daughters and a son. One of his daughters is a sister worker which is a helful assistant of Darrel then Lyle Shutlz. Three others support the sister worker. Only the eldest daughter and her family continue the faith with golden friends. His niece Bình considers him as father because her father had passed away since she was a child. Her uncle raised her up along with his children. Almost his children live in Saigon but he lives 90 km far from here.
On Saturday 8-2-2014, a day before our visit to Suối Lạnh place, he travelled to Saigon to visit his children. According to Vietnamese tradition, on the new lunar year days, the children have obligations to visit their parents. On this case, he did the opposite because he saw this day was nearly the end of new lunar year holiday and no children came to visit him. He entered his daughter’s house, namely Hiếu means “Dutiful to one’s parents”. Uncle Trọng had the meal here with his children and grandchildren and his niece Bình.
Hiếu knew that the next day there would be a gathering of golden friends in Suối Lạnh, so she tried to prevent her father from attending the gathering by devising a trap.
She asked her father to stay at her home. Her father didn’t agree because he said that he felt happy, peaceful and joyful to stay with his niece’s home.
This time failed, she came up to another idea. She asked her father to have a family reunion the next afternoon at Binh's house. She pretended not knowing the gathering of golden friends the next day. He refused because of our gathering at Suối Lạnh. She asked to have the union later but his niece said that she was afraid they would not be sure to return home in time.
Then Hiếu became angry with her father and Bình (his niece). She cursed and had loud voice with Bình. The two other daughters cooperated with Hiếu to abuse Bình.
Uncle Trọng spoke out: “why do you yelled to your sister like a school of farmer dogs barked?”
Then Bình and uncle Trọng prepared to leave for Bình’s home. Hiếu shouted at them: “I spent a lot of money each time you were sick now you want to stay with your niece(Binh) to glorify her. If you go far which can cause you ill and it would cost me a lot of money again...”
Uncle Trọng said: “your name is Hiếu (dutiful to one’s parents) but you are very undutiful now.”
And with sadness he left his handwriting “Feeding parents with the lacking of respect , which is like feeding dogs and horses” . After writing these letters, he fell but fortunately he was wounded a little on his face.Thank God for keeping him. His niece is still keeping this line of letters
Uncle Trọng wanted to post his story to ring a bell that “what spirit have the 2x2, especially the North American overseers brought into his family?”
His family have been well-known of one with dutiful, well- raised children. Now with the new spirit of these workers his children become ill-bred, unmanerly.
This question he longs to sending uncle Lyle Shutlz, Dale Shutlz and Darrel. -Uncle Hoa comforting uncle Trọng after hearing his story
- Uncle Trọng and his niece Binh
|
|
sayitaintso
New Member
Life is best on the OUTSIDE looking IN!
Posts: 14
|
Post by sayitaintso on Feb 13, 2014 11:47:17 GMT -5
WOW. I've spent the last few hours reading all of this and am amazed and sickened by the control and demands put on people by the Canadian Workers. It is horrible. Even here in the Midwest of the USA, there is not this much dogma today. Maybe back in the old days, but not now. I don't go to meeting anymore and will never again, because my eyes are wide open to the UNGodliness of it all. But, I do respect those trying to retain fellowship and doing their best to understand the word of God together. That's why this is such a mess....MEN have come in and demanded that human understanding MUST include an understanding of their ways. It's not about THEIR ways....to trivialize how a person looks, how their hair is, what time to start the meeting, etc.....is madness. And that's what they have now, a whole lot of MADNESS.
My heart goes out to all the folks in VN.... Outside influence needs to go home. GOD is there - the Western world doesn't have GOD anymore than the rest of the world, and we as Westerners don't know how to serve GOD any better than anyone else in the world. It's a personal matter, no matter where or who you are.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Feb 13, 2014 14:05:29 GMT -5
My uncle Trọng and his niece asked me to post this story. He wanted to meet uncle Lyle to blame the bad spirit that the Northern American overseers have brought into his family. Cannot meet uncle Lyle here so he can read this on internet. Uncle Trọng has 5 daughters and a son. One of his daughters is a sister worker which is a helful assistant of Darrel then Lyle Shutlz. Three others support the sister worker. Only the eldest daughter and her family continue the faith with golden friends. His niece Bình considers him as father because her father had passed away since she was a child. Her uncle raised her up along with his children. Almost his children live in Saigon but he lives 90 km far from here. On Saturday 8-2-2014, a day before our visit to Suối Lạnh place, he travelled to Saigon to visit his children. According to Vietnamese tradition, on the new lunar year days, the children have obligations to visit their parents. On this case, he did the opposite because he saw this day was nearly the end of new lunar year holiday and no children came to visit him. He entered his daughter’s house, namely Hiếu means “Dutiful to one’s parents”. Uncle Trọng had the meal here with his children and grandchildren and his niece Bình. Hiếu knew that the next day there would be a gathering of golden friends in Suối Lạnh, so she tried to prevent her father from attending the gathering by devising a trap. She asked her father to stay at her home. Her father didn’t agree because he said that he felt happy, peaceful and joyful to stay with his niece’s home. This time failed, she came up to another idea. She asked her father to have a family reunion the next afternoon at Binh's house. She pretended not knowing the gathering of golden friends the next day. He refused because of our gathering at Suối Lạnh. She asked to have the union later but his niece said that she was afraid they would not be sure to return home in time. Then Hiếu became angry with her father and Bình (his niece). She cursed and had loud voice with Bình. The two other daughters cooperated with Hiếu to abuse Bình. Uncle Trọng spoke out: “why do you yelled to your sister like a school of farmer dogs barked?” Then Bình and uncle Trọng prepared to leave for Bình’s home. Hiếu shouted at them: “I spent a lot of money each time you were sick now you want to stay with your niece(Binh) to glorify her. If you go far which can cause you ill and it would cost me a lot of money again...” Uncle Trọng said: “your name is Hiếu (dutiful to one’s parents) but you are very undutiful now.” And with sadness he left his handwriting “Feeding parents with the lacking of respect , which is like feeding dogs and horses” . After writing these letters, he fell but fortunately he was wounded a little on his face.Thank God for keeping him. His niece is still keeping this line of letters Uncle Trọng wanted to post his story to ring a bell that “what spirit have the 2x2, especially the North American overseers brought into his family?” His family have been well-known of one with dutiful, well- raised children. Now with the new spirit of these workers his children become ill-bred, unmanerly. This question he longs to sending uncle Lyle Shutlz, Dale Shutlz and Darrel. -Uncle Hoa comforting uncle Trọng after hearing his story
- Uncle Trọng and his niece BinhThanks xuanhoan I wish all of the good friends and workers world-wide would wake up and acknowledge that the fruits of system-mindedness are not pretty. Devotion to the friends and workers' religious system is idolatry, and competes with our devotion to God and the principles of the kingdom of heaven.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Feb 13, 2014 16:04:16 GMT -5
WOW. I've spent the last few hours reading all of this and am amazed and sickened by the control and demands put on people by the Canadian Workers. It is horrible. Even here in the Midwest of the USA, there is not this much dogma today. Maybe back in the old days, but not now. I don't go to meeting anymore and will never again, because my eyes are wide open to the UNGodliness of it all. But, I do respect those trying to retain fellowship and doing their best to understand the word of God together. That's why this is such a mess....MEN have come in and demanded that human understanding MUST include an understanding of their ways. It's not about THEIR ways....to trivialize how a person looks, how their hair is, what time to start the meeting, etc.....is madness. And that's what they have now, a whole lot of MADNESS. My heart goes out to all the folks in VN.... Outside influence needs to go home. GOD is there - the Western world doesn't have GOD anymore than the rest of the world, and we as Westerners don't know how to serve GOD any better than anyone else in the world. It's a personal matter, no matter where or who you are. I'd almost want to suggest that perhaps the few golden friends in VN have more "God" amongst them then perhaps anyone in the America lands have....or at least they appreciate Him more! I often pray to God that He would come back to the states and that he would govern those he allows to offices of authority....the commandments are not allowed in public buildings nor are the simple words "In God we trust" allowed on the preface of any federal building. The US needs God back into it more like it did when the founding fathers had Him in it!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 22:10:49 GMT -5
The 2x2 system has divided many families over the years. When you believe that you have the only right way to Heaven and some of your family leaves there are many emotions involved: - they can't understand why you would leave God's only right way and his true ministers - they believe you are going to hell (I was told this by a couple of relatives) - if the workers are "in their ear" as is the case in Vietnam, they may either cut off those who have left or seek to frustrate their efforts (ie not meet up with the golden friends etc) - they can no longer influence you the way they used to - that can lead to a lot of frustration! - they will be wanting to please the workers in their behaviour to earn the workers' favour So you get all kinds of skittish behaviour, much of which is out of character, and I'm sure a fair bit of which is regretted later. Hieu is frustrated beyond belief - she is in a situation she can no longer control. She is torn between loyalty to her family and loyalty to the workers in Vietnam! Uncle Trong and Binh now have complete freedom in Christ and understand completely what it's like to be free from a destructive system. It would be hard for them to understand why Hieu is reacting the way she is. But over time it will heal. Christ's love will win out. As Uncle Trong and Binh continue to show Christ's love to Hieu and continue to act as Hieu is still a sister and daughter in Christ, the Holy Spirit will soften her heart. And while Hieu may not leave the 2x2 system (although this is a distinct possibility) she will soften towards you. How do I know - it's been my personal experience. And if I'm honest it took longer in my case because I didn't always respond with the Spirit of Christ to some of the things that were said to me Ross, that is so encouraging. I appreciate what you've said here.
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Feb 13, 2014 23:55:29 GMT -5
The 2x2 system has divided many families over the years. When you believe that you have the only right way to Heaven and some of your family leaves there are many emotions involved: - they can't understand why you would leave God's only right way and his true ministers - they believe you are going to hell (I was told this by a couple of relatives) - if the workers are "in their ear" as is the case in Vietnam, they may either cut off those who have left or seek to frustrate their efforts (ie not meet up with the golden friends etc) - they can no longer influence you the way they used to - that can lead to a lot of frustration! - they will be wanting to please the workers in their behaviour to earn the workers' favourSo you get all kinds of skittish behaviour, much of which is out of character, and I'm sure a fair bit of which is regretted later. Hieu is frustrated beyond belief - she is in a situation she can no longer control. She is torn between loyalty to her family and loyalty to the workers in Vietnam! Uncle Trong and Binh now have complete freedom in Christ and understand completely what it's like to be free from a destructive system. It would be hard for them to understand why Hieu is reacting the way she is. But over time it will heal. Christ's love will win out. As Uncle Trong and Binh continue to show Christ's love to Hieu and continue to act as Hieu is still a sister and daughter in Christ, the Holy Spirit will soften her heart. And while Hieu may not leave the 2x2 system (although this is a distinct possibility) she will soften towards you. How do I know - it's been my personal experience. And if I'm honest it took longer in my case because I didn't always respond with the Spirit of Christ to some of the things that were said to me Ross, that is so encouraging. I appreciate what you've said here. Bình is uncle Trọng's niece, I am his wife's niece (My auntie passed away). We all know together since we are very young. I was terrible affraid when hearing my uncle Trọng fell down, maybe by this happening uncle Trọng & Bình wanted to ring the bell for awakening my sister cousins. I heard in detail the happening, I also retold to uncle Châu, maybe he can give some advices to both sides. I do know all my cousin sisters. Hiếu really has the best manner in duty with her dad as her name, soft voice and much concern to him. I hardly believed things going so bad like this. I also had shared to uncle Châu about my father's advice to his children, when seeing the familly was torn by the 2x2ism, my parents were deeply sad, and here was my father's advice to his children.. "Anyone may have their own belief, someone believes that the 2x2ism may bring people to heaven, others may not believe like that. You all can keep your belief, but please not dishonor others' belief, and please do not bring the 2x2ism to tear the peace in the family. Please keep the love and unity in the family as we have had as ever"
Now in my parents' family, gradually restore the peace and unity among three sisters in the big family of my parents. I do hope that over time can heal all the pain in both sides. I know Hieu feeling how painful in her heart to say something harsh like this. May the Spirit of God will help and lead us how to do, to make wrong things to be right.
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Feb 14, 2014 3:42:53 GMT -5
Looking up the map to find out the right way. I have read over a document related to my Australia trip. It reminds me our exciting & wonderful trip in Sydney Australia. We had 6 days with friends and teachers in The Gia Long's Conference & tours around Sydney and Camberra. We had left two days more for adventure by ourselves. One day we wanted to meet my two Vietnamese girl friends at Ibis hotel in Darling Habour. (I will tell you about these friends next time, Their hesitation gave a real lesson to me). We had came to Sydney harbour two times with my school group, aslo seeing the Ibis hotel in the far distance. Now we lonely adventured there. First, From Bankstown we took the subway to Sydney, then asking the people whom we met on the way (including the policeman). To be confident in my mind that I had known the direction… then we went forward. But at last we found out we lost the way, we turned back. On the way back I asked a man sitting in front of his mini restaurant: “ Please, show us the way to Darling Harbour”. He told me that we were in the wrong way, we should turn back, about more than 3Km. Seeing I did not understand his showing clearly, and hardly following exactly his word. He ran into his restaurant and gave me a Sydney map and indicated me: “Here you are… and here is the place you want to come.” I felt more confident when we had the Sydney map in hand. I hadn’t used a map to find the way before. In my country sometimes I lost the way, just asked people by mouth !... So I continued to ask the way from people I met along the street. One showed me go on this way, the others showed another way. Walking more than two hours, but didn’t find out the way leading to Darling harbour. Sitting down on a bench on the street for rest, I opened the map again, and carefully searched. I found out the main way to follow. What a roundabout way we had gone!... I asked my husband sitting there, I myself searched the way in reality as in the map. From street to another street at last I reached to Ibis hotel with full of happiness. Although being very tired !!! I ran back to my husband (He waited there more than 1 hour in worrying for me). I waved and shouted, now I knew the way. Then we all together went to Ibis hotel in Darling Harbour. Now my husband believed in my leading, for I had my own experience to be there. We all knew that there is The Only One Way leading us to heaven. Jesus, He is the WAY (never change). His Way was written in The Bible very clearly in details how to obey, to submit, and serving our Mighty GOD. His will, his command all in the Bible. Thanks for reading Bible day by day, and through our very lively experience with 2x2 workers, God had appeared to us that we were in losing way, although we had traveled along with 2x2 almost all my life, and serving them with our my heart. Now I am happy in The spirit of God's leading with full of joy, no need to hear or discuss about wrong or right. The True Way is very clear in the Bible, just following with Jesus Christ’s leading. We want to share our true experiences in Sydney Australia with friends around the world, especially with uncle Châu and the rest in my parents’s family.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Feb 14, 2014 4:17:57 GMT -5
Post by marmor on Feb 14, 2014 4:17:57 GMT -5
My husband just updated my avatar on the board as my request. I have read over a document related to my Australia trip. It reminds me our exciting & wonderful trip in Sydney Australia. We had 6 days with friends and teachers in The Gia Long's Conference & tours around Sydney and Camberra. We had left two days more for adventure by ourselves. One day we wanted to meet my two Vietnamese girl friends at Ibis hotel in Darling Habour. (I will tell you about these friends next time, Their hesitation gave a real lesson to me). We had came to Sydney harbour two times with my school group, aslo seeing the Ibis hotel in the far distance. Now we lonely adventured there. First, From Bankstown we took the subway to Sydney, then asking the people whom we met on the way (including the policeman). To be confident in my mind that I had known the direction… then we went forward. But at last we found out we lost the way, we turned back. On the way back I asked a man sitting in font of his mini restaurant: “ Please, show us the way to Darling Harbour”. He told me that we were in the wrong way, we should turn back, about more than 3Km. Seeing I did not understand his showing clearly, and hardly following exactly his word. He ran into his restaurant and gave me a Sydney map and indicated me: “Here you are… and here is the place you want to come.” I felt more confident when we had the Sydney map in hand. I hadn’t used a map to find the way before. In my country sometimes I lost the way, just asked people by mouth !... So I continued to ask the way from people I met along the street. One showed me go on this way, the others showed another way. Walking more than two hours, but didn’t find out the way leading to Darling harbour. Sitting down on a bench on the street for rest, I opened the map again, and carefully searched. I found out the main way to follow. What a roundabout way we had gone!... I asked my husband sitting there, I myself searched the way in reality as in the map. From street to another street at last I reached to Ibis hotel with full of happiness. Although being very tired !!! I ran back to my husband (He waited there more than 1 hour in worrying for me). I waved and shouted, now I knew the way. Then we all together went to Ibis hotel in Darling Harbour. Now my husband believed in my leading, for I had my own experience to be there. We all knew that there is The Only One Way leading us to heaven. Jesus, He is the WAY (never change). His Way was written in The Bible very clearly in details how to obey, to submit, and serving our Mighty GOD. His will, his command all in the Bible. Thanks for reading Bible day by day, and through our very lively experience with 2x2 workers, God had appeared to us that we were in losing way, although we had traveled along with 2x2 almost all my life. Now I am happy in His leading with full of joy, no need to hear or discuss about wrong or right. The True Way is very clear in the Bible, just following with Jesus Christ’s leading. We want to share our true experiences in Sydney Australia with friends around the world, especially with uncle Châu and the rest in my parents’s family.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Feb 14, 2014 4:19:00 GMT -5
Post by marmor on Feb 14, 2014 4:19:00 GMT -5
The 2x2 system has divided many families over the years. When you believe that you have the only right way to Heaven and some of your family leaves there are many emotions involved: - they can't understand why you would leave God's only right way and his true ministers - they believe you are going to hell (I was told this by a couple of relatives) - if the workers are "in their ear" as is the case in Vietnam, they may either cut off those who have left or seek to frustrate their efforts (ie not meet up with the golden friends etc) - they can no longer influence you the way they used to - that can lead to a lot of frustration! - they will be wanting to please the workers in their behaviour to earn the workers' favour So you get all kinds of skittish behaviour, much of which is out of character, and I'm sure a fair bit of which is regretted later. Hieu is frustrated beyond belief - she is in a situation she can no longer control. She is torn between loyalty to her family and loyalty to the workers in Vietnam! Uncle Trong and Binh now have complete freedom in Christ and understand completely what it's like to be free from a destructive system. It would be hard for them to understand why Hieu is reacting the way she is. But over time it will heal. Christ's love will win out. As Uncle Trong and Binh continue to show Christ's love to Hieu and continue to act as Hieu is still a sister and daughter in Christ, the Holy Spirit will soften her heart. And while Hieu may not leave the 2x2 system (although this is a distinct possibility) she will soften towards you. How do I know - it's been my personal experience. And if I'm honest it took longer in my case because I didn't always respond with the Spirit of Christ to some of the things that were said to me Ross, that is so encouraging. I appreciate what you've said here.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Feb 14, 2014 4:59:13 GMT -5
Post by marmor on Feb 14, 2014 4:59:13 GMT -5
However, even though all this testing and suffering takes place, I'm interested in whether you believe we should challenge abuses of power or corruption or wrong doctrine when we see it in those who are leaders?
By all means and have done so. Bible teaches to 'talk together' when there is an issue. Must be exposed and come to the light, only way it can be dealt With and best for both parties. I see so many here who have been so disappointed and hurt, frustrated because of not being heard. Job.6.He didn't either find kindness when he needed it, many untrue Things hurled at him while he was so ill. It didn't mean that 'The Way' was wrong because they had an issue. God brought ALL to repentance, also Job. We see it in lands where Peoples are not heard, they take to throwing stones. "If these keep silent, the stones will cry out."I've used the 'blunt,sharp,angry hurtful etc. approach. This father's advice to his children was wonderful, hope they will do it! "Anyone may have their own belief, someone believes that the 2x2ism may bring people to heaven, others may not believe like that. You all can keep your belief, but please not DISHONOR others' belief, and please do not bring the 2x2ism to tear the peace in the family. Please keep the love and unity in the family as we have had as ever"
Let's walk by this rule. Honour all men, Speak TRUTH With each other, Always With Grace, seasoned With salt.2Cor.10 they said hard Things to Paul, and he to them. At times they even doubted whether each other were 'in the faith' the refining is a progressive thing. There will always be differences. The Bible is full of all these Things amongst 'God's true people' but it did not make The Way wrong, it was just that they were not walking in it.God is working hard to bring us all to repentance, and He Works patiently. Heb.12.3... What He endured!! are WE following in His steps? I appreciate the concern of so many here for those who suffer.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Feb 14, 2014 8:02:49 GMT -5
Post by Sylvestra on Feb 14, 2014 8:02:49 GMT -5
Yesterday, my wife (Minh Thanh) asked uncle Hoa:"How did you know the website Telling The Truth?" He answered before 2010, Darrel Turner wanted to inform something for the folks in his staff, he posted the information to a website. And each worker had a password in order to access that website. One time, uncle Hoa entered that website by google the words "workers friends" (perhaps the website of Darrel has the word "workers" and he forgot the URL address). He accidently discovered a lot of other websites regarding 2x2 religion. He read read on the internet . Some websites let him know many good points of 2x2. The others revealed new things to him. But he wasn't shaken at that time. He thought sometimes the prince inherits the throne but he can be naughty. So the church can be corrupt although it is the continuation of the beginning. The worship depends on the spirit, the heart so the origin is not an important matter. Gradually he came to the website Telling The Truth. So I can say that uncle Hoa knew the website TTT thanks to Darrel Turner I'm so thankful Uncle Hoa was properly guided by the information he found at TTT!! .....still preaching and still searching for the sheep God brings to himself! (As opposed to bringing them into "the meetings" to be ruled over by workers instead of by the Lord Himself!)
|
|
|
Vietnam
Feb 14, 2014 12:32:50 GMT -5
Post by snow on Feb 14, 2014 12:32:50 GMT -5
The 2x2 system has divided many families over the years. When you believe that you have the only right way to Heaven and some of your family leaves there are many emotions involved: - they can't understand why you would leave God's only right way and his true ministers - they believe you are going to hell (I was told this by a couple of relatives) - if the workers are "in their ear" as is the case in Vietnam, they may either cut off those who have left or seek to frustrate their efforts (ie not meet up with the golden friends etc) - they can no longer influence you the way they used to - that can lead to a lot of frustration! - they will be wanting to please the workers in their behaviour to earn the workers' favour So you get all kinds of skittish behaviour, much of which is out of character, and I'm sure a fair bit of which is regretted later. Hieu is frustrated beyond belief - she is in a situation she can no longer control. She is torn between loyalty to her family and loyalty to the workers in Vietnam! Uncle Trong and Binh now have complete freedom in Christ and understand completely what it's like to be free from a destructive system. It would be hard for them to understand why Hieu is reacting the way she is. But over time it will heal. Christ's love will win out. As Uncle Trong and Binh continue to show Christ's love to Hieu and continue to act as Hieu is still a sister and daughter in Christ, the Holy Spirit will soften her heart. And while Hieu may not leave the 2x2 system (although this is a distinct possibility) she will soften towards you. How do I know - it's been my personal experience. And if I'm honest it took longer in my case because I didn't always respond with the Spirit of Christ to some of the things that were said to me Well said. I had the same experience. When I first left it took a long time for my parents to come to terms with it. Not sure my dad ever did, but my mom did. I just kept on being me and in the end, she did make it known that she felt I would be alright. Huge concession from her point of view because she always felt I was 'lost' for eternity because I left the 2x2 fellowship. It does take time. Fear is the biggest factor for some of the cruel things they do and say. They love and are afraid for you. I think it's so sad that the workers place this kind of separation on them to the point they feel they need to do this to family. Happens again and again though. You would think that if they were true servants of a loving God that this would show in their dealings with his 'flock'. That's doesn't indicate a loving system, but rather a system that values control based on fear tactics.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Feb 14, 2014 17:37:59 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Feb 14, 2014 17:37:59 GMT -5
I also had shared to uncle Châu about my father's advice to his children, when seeing the familly was torn by the 2x2ism, my parents were deeply sad, and here was my father's advice to his children.. "Anyone may have their own belief, someone believes that the 2x2ism may bring people to heaven, others may not believe like that. You all can keep your belief, but please not dishonor others' belief, and please do not bring the 2x2ism to tear the peace in the family. Please keep the love and unity in the family as we have had as ever"
Now in my parents' family, gradually restore the peace and unity among three sisters in the big family of my parents. I do hope that over time can heal all the pain in both sides. I know Hieu feeling how painful in her heart to say something harsh like this. May the Spirit of God will help and lead us how to do, to make wrong things to be right. Your father is a wise man MT.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Feb 15, 2014 6:40:55 GMT -5
Post by xuanhoan on Feb 15, 2014 6:40:55 GMT -5
This morning, I talked to my wife that I had been lucky because I had met a staff of workers that only concern to sow a seed of Christ in my heart until Christ became greater in my heart and they became smaller. I saw clearly the same as John Baptist said:"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30. They helped me day by day more and more depend on the Bible and less and less depend on them. Uncle Fred's staff comprised of auntie Bonnie Dahlin, auntie Phillis Munn, uncle Edwin, uncle Cecil, uncle Christie, uncle Châu, uncle Hoa, sister Thư Anh, sister Băng Ngọc. I am very very grateful to them. I didn't have a lot of time with them due to the liberation day came very soon to me. But I continued being fed by uncle Hoa, uncle Châu, sister Thư Anh, sister Băng Ngọc. In my opinion, maybe not true, Uncle Fred's staff was a particular one, hard for me to encounter a such similar staff nowaday. Now the workers(in my country) demand the friends "because the teacher staff is a precious, dedicated group of men and women who deserve our highest respect."(quoted in Lyle Shultz's letter). I feel he wanted "the worker increase, Christ decrease" Many things have happened which made me worry:"Where is the true way of God?" At first, we thought Vietnam problem was an only one in the world but gradualy, we knew problem in Alberta, Canada. We felt being comforted and day by day we realise that this is a global issue, and we know the history of 2x2 cult and many other things. We thank God for opening our eyes such as the Samaritan woman asked Jesus: "Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” Jesus answered: "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”(John 4:20-24) So I have had the answer, we worship the Father neither in Catholic way nor in Two by two religion. We worsip the Father in the Spirit and in truth. +Once more, we have a lot thanks to Edgar Massey to have contact with us. And he has kept carefully the account of Alberta. and now he has done for Vietnam account, very easy to follow and understand. +We have a lot thanks to Cherry Kropp for her Telling The Truth Website and the Vietnam account. I think she has done her best to be true, exact, clearly. Her work will be rewarded by our God. Her effort brings many souls closer to God, not to any human organisation. +We have a lot thanks to my wife's friend in States,for introducing us to website Truth Meeting Boards. +We have a lot thanks to Administrator of Website Truth Meeting Boards for giving us opportinuty to encounter many precious friends on the board, through their experiences, their thoughts, their choices partly take part in our choices. we don't feel lonely any more. we have more peace, more calm and the most important we help each other to see and have more Spirit of Christ. +We have a lot of thanks to our friends on this Board. I think we only begin our new chapter, we will continue to share our experience on our life's way in order in the end we can meet our Father and our Lord in joy. See all of you on the next post.
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Feb 15, 2014 9:34:12 GMT -5
Do you know the reason why my husband says thanks to many workers and friends in his recent post. Last night he passed a serious problem in his health. It threatened me that easy for him to go with God, left me alone in this earth. Just only two of us lived in the home. He often has sequela from his stroke three years ago.He is OK now, and continues with me on the board . The above happening has the same meaning with the event that my two Vietnamese girl friends whom I wanted to meet at Ibis Hotel in Darling Harbour. Although, we had gone through very devious way to reach there, but I never met them, just talked by phone. They are my closest friends in VN. We all travelled together in many tours from the very South to the top North. They also persuaded me to join with them to Australia. At first I refused to go, but thought that by this occasion I might have the chance to meet uncle Edwin Allen. The worker I love and respect more than 50 years. I wanted to go. When the invitation letters from the organisers came to our group (5 girl friends). The other 4 friends hesitated to apply document to the consulate for having visa to enter Australia. Our friends were afraid that if the consulate didn't agree they might lose a lot of money !!! So they waited us to apply first, until we had the visa, then they applied their document. Of course with the invitation letter for a conference, we all had the visa to go. But unfortunately for our friends that the limited time for submitting attendance the conference came to deadline. Only I and my husband could attend because we had the visa earlier. the Two friends quit the confrerence, two others still proceeded to go to Australia but in a tour 5 days only with the outsiders. We couldn't meet them because they were on their tour that day... returning late at night!... It reminded me if we hesitated in serving our God now... we may lose the chance enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Waiting friends at Ibis Hotel in a windy, cold afternoonMy husband post this picture for teasing me look like a southeast asian beggar .
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Feb 15, 2014 10:25:06 GMT -5
WOW. I've spent the last few hours reading all of this and am amazed and sickened by the control and demands put on people by the Canadian Workers. It is horrible. Even here in the Midwest of the USA, there is not this much dogma today. Maybe back in the old days, but not now. I don't go to meeting anymore and will never again, because my eyes are wide open to the UNGodliness of it all. But, I do respect those trying to retain fellowship and doing their best to understand the word of God together. That's why this is such a mess....MEN have come in and demanded that human understanding MUST include an understanding of their ways. It's not about THEIR ways....to trivialize how a person looks, how their hair is, what time to start the meeting, etc... ..is madness. And that's what they have now, a whole lot of MADNESS. My heart goes out to all the folks in VN.... Outside influence needs to go home. GOD is there - the Western world doesn't have GOD anymore than the rest of the world, and we as Westerners don't know how to serve GOD any better than anyone else in the world. It's a personal matter, no matter where or who you are. Showing how human minds can get so filled with negative things...."And that's what they have now, a whole lot of MADNESS" This reminded me of what was said by the one little girl that had survived the Newton, Conn. massacre by lying with her dead schoolmates as if though she was also dead, when she first saw her parents she said to her mother, "Mama, that man was an angry man, and he was a 'MAD' man!" I don't believe the little girl was saying the same thing twice....she said exactly what she saw within that gunner's eyes and face....he seemed angry at something and he seemed very MAD in his mind. It's possible so it seems that MADNESS can affect any of us with the slightest provocation! And being able to control a number of people brings the madness not unlike the little dictator Napoleon had! He got so big in his mind due to all of his successes that he became MAD. I see in some of the workers this same thing working in them....the success of 115 yrs. or more of uneducated ministry has taken its' toll on mankind in giving the powered workers a MADNESS that keeps them so elevated in their own minds that they cannot even begin to feel compassion and love for any one, much less someone who ismentally challenged for a brief time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 11:06:45 GMT -5
A hymn in the 'Old and New' that I think is significant in this unfolding story --
Lord Jesus keep my NEXT STEP faithful To paths marked out by God for me Hold thou me up O mighty Saviour My hope and strength are all in Thee
The storms that gather round my pathway May hide the next step from my sight But faith can walk with God in Darkness And he will guide that step aright
I cannot see beyond the moment Tomorrows strength comes not today But blessed Lord I trust thy keeping For just the next step on my way
With each temptation thou hast promised The grace to conquer and to bear A way of sure escape provided From every subtle secret snare
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Feb 15, 2014 14:23:46 GMT -5
This morning, I talked to my wife that I had been lucky because I had met a staff of workers that only concern to sow a seed of Christ in my heart until Christ became greater in my heart and they became smaller. I saw clearly the same as John Baptist said:"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30. They helped me day by day more and more depend on the Bible and less and less depend on them. Uncle Fred's staff comprised of auntie Bonnie Dahlin, auntie Phillis Munn, uncle Edwin, uncle Cecil, uncle Christie, uncle Châu, uncle Hoa, sister Thư Anh, sister Băng Ngọc. I am very very grateful to them. I didn't have a lot of time with them due to the liberation day came very soon to me. But I continued being fed by uncle Hoa, uncle Châu, sister Thư Anh, sister Băng Ngọc. In my opinion, maybe not true, Uncle Fred's staff was a particular one, hard for me to encounter a such similar staff nowaday. Now the workers(in my country) demand the friends "because the teacher staff is a precious, dedicated group of men and women who deserve our highest respect."(quoted in Lyle Shultz's letter). I feel he wanted "the worker increase, Christ decrease"For those who want specific actionable information this is it. Overseers and workers should stop promoting themselves and their organization, and encourage folks towards a closer dependence on God. Then they would be respected for what they are, rather than what they claim to be.
|
|
|
Post by shipwreckedsailor on Feb 15, 2014 14:27:31 GMT -5
This morning, I talked to my wife that I had been lucky because I had met a staff of workers that only concern to sow a seed of Christ in my heart until Christ became greater in my heart and they became smaller. I saw clearly the same as John Baptist said:"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30. They helped me day by day more and more depend on the Bible and less and less depend on them. Uncle Fred's staff comprised of auntie Bonnie Dahlin, auntie Phillis Munn, uncle Edwin, uncle Cecil, uncle Christie, uncle Châu, uncle Hoa, sister Thư Anh, sister Băng Ngọc. I am very very grateful to them. I didn't have a lot of time with them due to the liberation day came very soon to me. But I continued being fed by uncle Hoa, uncle Châu, sister Thư Anh, sister Băng Ngọc. In my opinion, maybe not true, Uncle Fred's staff was a particular one, hard for me to encounter a such similar staff nowaday. Now the workers(in my country) demand the friends "because the teacher staff is a precious, dedicated group of men and women who deserve our highest respect."(quoted in Lyle Shultz's letter). I feel he wanted "the worker increase, Christ decrease" Many things have happened which made me worry:"Where is the true way of God?" At first, we thought Vietnam problem was an only one in the world but gradualy, we knew problem in Alberta, Canada. We felt being comforted and day by day we realise that this is a global issue, and we know the history of 2x2 cult and many other things. We thank God for opening our eyes such as the Samaritan woman asked Jesus: "Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” Jesus answered: "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”(John 4:20-24) So I have had the answer, we worship the Father neither in Catholic way nor in Two by two religion. We worsip the Father in the Spirit and in truth. +Once more, we have a lot thanks to Edgar Massey to have contact with us. And he has kept carefully the account of Alberta. and now he has done for Vietnam account, very easy to follow and understand. +We have a lot thanks to Cherry Kropp for her Telling The Truth Website and the Vietnam account. I think she has done her best to be true, exact, clearly. Her work will be rewarded by our God. Her effort brings many souls closer to God, not to any human organisation. +We have a lot thanks to my wife's friend in States,for introducing us to website Truth Meeting Boards. +We have a lot thanks to Administrator of Website Truth Meeting Boards for giving us opportinuty to encounter many precious friends on the board, through their experiences, their thoughts, their choices partly take part in our choices. we don't feel lonely any more. we have more peace, more calm and the most important we help each other to see and have more Spirit of Christ. +We have a lot of thanks to our friends on this Board. I think we only begin our new chapter, we will continue to share our experience on our life's way in order in the end we can meet our Father and our Lord in joy. See all of you on the next post.
Xuanhoan ~ your story, the sharing of your lives and struggles there in VN has touched the hearts of many around the world! You have invited us into your homes, into your hearts and although we live many miles, many countries apart we are with you in heart and prayer! You have inspired us, encouraged us and made us look deep into our own hearts and motives ~ our prayer life has become stronger in Jesus for you and because of you! Christ HAS increased in your lives...God's promise is working through and in all of you there struggling in VN. Thank you so much for your courage. This is God's battle and He will always be with you!
|
|
|
Post by slowtosee on Feb 15, 2014 17:08:30 GMT -5
I also have followed your posts with great interest and feel I need to tell you how encouraging you are to me, not wavering from your decision to obey god rather than man. Hymn-. I have decided to follow Jesus, no turning back, no turning back. Alvin Kroeker Birch river Manitoba canada
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Feb 16, 2014 7:19:18 GMT -5
Today is Sunday. I’m going to tell you how uncle Hoa is working at Viet Nam.
On the way uncle Hoa visits friends here and there, we often phone him to know where he is.
Uncle Hoa often connects with us in another way. He always takes with him a tablet with 3G (able to access internet), in order he can skype with us or with some friends in USA although he is in the remote, village without internet. By this way, sometimes we have Bible study with uncle Hoa through internet, with friends at his visiting place, and friends in States as well. We do value the time we meet together through skype on internet, we can meet face by face, hear and follow our friends reading Bible.
Whoever hears uncle Hoa preaching must agree with me that his words full of Spirit of God, very easy to understand. In the past sometime we had long meeting with many workers speaking in special meeting. Sometimes people felt sleepy. But when ever uncle Hoa gave his speech we were all awake with his very true and lively example in his words, sometimes made us laugh.
Yesterday he skyped to me while he was staying at an unprofessed family. We heard about this family, whenever uncle Hoa visited them. They were about more than 20 people in 5 families, they listened from uncle Hoa about 2 years ago. But this is the first time we have met them through skype. Both sides were full of happiness to see face to face and sharing some information about the family of each other.
Thanks for uncle Hoa working, not only brings us close to God by studying the Bible, but also bring us close together, with full of happiness in Christ.
I never see any other workers in my country work like uncle Hoa, although they have the very expensive laptops or tablets than uncle Hoa.
I want to share with workers around the world, as for me this is the very good way to take care of and feed the flock. .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Feb 16, 2014 11:17:05 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 11:17:05 GMT -5
Today is Sunday. I’m going to tell you how uncle Hoa is working at Viet Nam. On the way uncle Hoa visits friends here and there, we often phone him to know where he is. Uncle Hoa often connects with us in another way. He always takes with him a tablet with 3G (able to access internet), in order he can skype with us or with some friends in USA although he is in the remote, village without internet. By this way, sometimes we have Bible study with uncle Hoa through internet, with friends at his visiting place, and friends in States as well. We do value the time we meet together through skype on internet, we can meet face by face, hear and follow our friends reading Bible. Whoever hears uncle Hoa preaching must agree with me that his words full of Spirit of God, very easy to understand. In the past sometime we had long meeting with many workers speaking in special meeting. Sometimes people felt sleepy. But when ever uncle Hoa gave his speech we were all awake with his very true and lively example in his words, sometimes made us laugh. Yesterday he skyped to me while he was staying at an unprofessed family. We heard about this family, whenever uncle Hoa visited them. They were about more than 20 people in 5 families, they listened from uncle Hoa about 2 years ago. But this is the first time we have met them through skype. Both sides were full of happiness to see face to face and sharing some information about the family of each other. Thanks for uncle Hoa working, not only brings us close to God by studying the Bible, but also bring us close together, with full of happiness in Christ. I never see any other workers in my country work like uncle Hoa, although they have the very expensive laptops or tablets than uncle Hoa. I want to share with workers around the world, as for me this is the very good way to take care of and feed the flock. . Minh Thanh, you just made my morning! Uncle Hoa reminds me of the Energizer Bunny: you just can't stop him!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 9:54:26 GMT -5
One of the wonderful and impressive aspects of these folks directly involved in the Vietnam 2x2 moral meltdown, is to notice the fact that their concerns are not just to identify and avoid the uncontestable ungodliness of 2x2ism --
Their main concern is obviously something far greater and far higher ---- Their main concern is to simply preserve and maintain the privelage and freedom to practice the spirit of Christ in their daily lives -- and then of course as part of this, to spread the gospel story according to the leadings of the the spirit of God to their own hearts to the folks arround them.
2x2ism had obviously become a major obstacle and stumbling block in their efforts to do serve the God that is so dear to them -- 2x2ism has blocked every effort they have had to serve God in spirit and in truth, and instead has only focused on the organizational leaderships right to 'be the boss' and to discard anyone who would dare suggest otherwise.
Edgar
Perhaps this verse is fitting when we think of 2x2isms frantic and selfish efforts to stop these native Vietnamese workers from spreading the gospel to their own people.
Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Feb 17, 2014 21:36:46 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Feb 17, 2014 21:36:46 GMT -5
One of the wonderful and impressive aspects of these folks directly involved in the Vietnam 2x2 moral meltdown, is to notice the fact that their concerns are not just to identify and avoid the uncontestable ungodliness of 2x2ism -- Their main concern is obviously something far greater and far higher ---- Their main concern is to simply preserve and maintain the privelage and freedom to practice the spirit of Christ in their daily lives -- and then of course as part of this, to spread the gospel story according to the leadings of the the spirit of God to their own hearts to the folks arround them. 2x2ism had obviously become a major obstacle and stumbling block in their efforts to do serve the God that is so dear to them -- 2x2ism has blocked every effort they have had to serve God in spirit and in truth, and instead has only focused on the organizational leaderships right to 'be the boss' and to discard anyone who would dare suggest otherwise. Edgar Perhaps this verse is fitting when we think of 2x2isms frantic and selfish efforts to stop these native Vietnamese workers from spreading the gospel to their own people. Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. As I had told that by chance uncle Hoa and uncle Châu met together at my home, in a very short time. On hearing this meeting, my sister asked me: “How about their attitude together?”
My reply: “Just asking about their health as a friend only”.
It was the lunch time. I tried to invite uncle Châu have the meal with us, but he denied !... (sitting at the same table waiting for the computer repaired, while uncle Hoa gave thanks for meal, and we had lumch). We all felt compassion on his plight “Fish pots bird cage”.
It Reminded me the time in the past uncle Lyle was angry with uncle Châu, when he asked uncle Châu to visit friends at the field he appointed. However uncle Châu went to visit another place, with some friends (May be uncle Châu felt that place was nesessary for his visiting other than the field was appointed.) Being afraid of the rule of the Overseer, now uncle Châu had to obey completely all their demands. In the past our workers had freedom to go anywhere under the Spirit of God leading, by the urge in their heart. Now Uncle Hoa has the same feeling and freedom to go anywhere God put the impulse in his heart to visit. Of course uncle Châu wants to visit many friends and places as uncle Hoa, but imposible for him. While he still puts his life under the control of Overseers. We have a discussion with our brother about the situation now. “If all the Canadian workers go back to their country, would we return to the fellowship with 2x2”. It is really hard for us to answer this question from a godly brother. My husband answer was: “We all love the friends and workers, we love their souls. Now we know the truth, we do not accept the religion of overseers any more. We desire God rules and leads our lives not overseers do. ”. I feel the pressure of money upon the workers in Vietnam nowadays. My country is among the poorest countries in the world. Just a small country with a huge amount of young workers.(including workers abroad). In the past I heard that workers went out to the fields leaving anything behind, trusting in God support and His care, willing to go anywhere God move their heart. The fact is not true now . Workers are under the care and control of overseer. Overseer is the only one who send money and instructions of what they had to do & obey… I can see clearly in a nutshell “Obey with fear !!!”. They had to stay at the places they were appointed. (As uncle Hoa told us, He felt wasting of his time for spending almost the time at the batch, and waiting for preaching two days in a week, Sunday and Wednesday). It is hard for the Vietnamese workers now following Jesus as written in the Bible. My daughter said: Difficult for them to continue the work without the supply of oversser. It seems that they need a job as many other jobs in life. Working for and completely obeying those who pay money for them. If not they will lose their jobs !!!. (Of course with such thinking of my daughter who was immediately received the admonish from our godly brother, although it is very real happening in my country!!!).
|
|
|
Post by slowtosee on Feb 18, 2014 9:30:29 GMT -5
Have been thinking of you. Folks in Vietnam last while as we observe many flocks of sheep with shepherds leading them and showing them the way. We see this in Jordan and also Palestine. Today as we travel we saw one flock moved amongst major traffic on highway with much danger but they all passed safely with good shepherd leading. Jesus said I am the good shepherd is what ran through mind. We also saw a herd of goats being driven from behind with sticks, lots of shouting and goats confused and milling about. Alvin
|
|
|
Vietnam
Feb 18, 2014 11:28:01 GMT -5
Post by snow on Feb 18, 2014 11:28:01 GMT -5
Have been thinking of you. Folks in Vietnam last while as we observe many flocks of sheep with shepherds leading them and showing them the way. We see this in Jordan and also Palestine. Today as we travel we saw one flock moved amongst major traffic on highway with much danger but they all passed safely with good shepherd leading. Jesus said I am the good shepherd is what ran through mind. We also saw a herd of goats being driven from behind with sticks, lots of shouting and goats confused and milling about. Alvin I do not want to ever be labelled as someone who 'just followed the feet in front of me'. It may be safer (as long as they're all going on a safe path) but there isn't much 'life' to it. jmt
|
|
|
Vietnam
Feb 18, 2014 14:28:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by slowtosee on Feb 18, 2014 14:28:56 GMT -5
I very much agree in not just following the feet in front of me idea. A poor leader would use sticks to force that kind of behavior and don't you dare step out of line. A good shepherd leads by example and one can trust his leading ,protecting Analogy taken too literally. Or far, of course... I don't even like the taste of grass I don't want to even have four feet ... lol. alvin
|
|