|
Post by minhthanh on Jan 28, 2014 2:47:06 GMT -5
Let's not classify people as "right" and "wrong". Better to determine whether actions are right or wrong. You put forward an interesting thought that God caused the split but it doesn't look like God's work to me. Would God have moved the workers to put a division between MT and her sister? Would God banish Uncle Chau from the Vietnamese people he spent his life serving, to spend his last days in countries where he doesn't understand the language? God sometimes works in ways we don't grasp until we see the greater picture: Would God have moved the workers to put a division between MT and her sister? Joseph? Genesis 50:20 Would God banish Uncle Chau from the Vietnamese people he spent his life serving, to spend his last days in countries where he doesn't understand the language? Abraham Gen. 12:1yes, we can not know the work of God in advance. The happenings to Joseph were bad at first but in the end was wonderful. Although one thing we know exactly, the spirit in the heart of Joseph's brothers. They hated him, they envied him. No matter what happened, if only they had done the contrary, had loved Joseph, I'm sure we would have had more wonderful pictures. The same the happenings in Vietnam. We do not know the work of God on the whole, but we couldn't see the spirit of God, the love among the workers in Vietnam situation. One time my husband had a dream. He told me that he saw Darrel and uncle Châu together went to convention in Australia, they showed the love to each other. And when he woke up, he was disappointed instead of being overwhelmed with happiness because he knew that Darrel still kept hatred to uncle Chau (he still didn't want uncle Chau to restore his work until the date Darrel exited Vietnam) Until now, no one see or hear any apology of Darrel to uncle Chau and I can anticipate:"never". We see this spirit in overseers Dale Schultz, Lyle Schultz, Darrel...
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 28, 2014 3:12:35 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 28, 2014 3:12:35 GMT -5
It was 1957 when my father, Mr. Vu Duc Tho, met Mr. Fred Allen for the 1st time. The address of Saigon Church, where they met, was 155 Trần Hưng Đạo Bld., in Saigon, the capital of South Vietnam This was one of the oldest Protestant churches that belonged to the CMA (Christian & Missionary Alliance) denomination. In one of the services at this church, my father saw one "American" sitting in the back row. At that time, very few Australians came to Vietnam, so my father thought Mr. Allen was coming from the USA. Although being fluent in French, my father couldn't speak English very well, but when the service was over, he came to talk with this American, and managed to understand that Mr. Allen was a missionary coming from Australia. As a fervent believer in God, my father had very high regard of all servants of God. He assumed Mr. Allen was one of the CMA missionaries, and invited him to have dinner a few days later, at my home. As a nine-year-old kid, I was very curious about this tall foreigner who had a short mustache reminding me of the Charlie Chaplin films that I had seen before, so I approached the dinner table and hid behind my father's chair to watch him. The man noticed my presence, and waited until I showed my face to roll his eyes, and fixed his gaze on me. Then somehow, I began to see his ears wiggling back and forth, which was very interesting to me, and I liked him at one ! (to be continued....) VTH Thank you, your post bring me back to my childhood, when I was U.10 I was very afraid uncle Fred, but very interesting with his ears wiggling back and forth, which was very interesting to me, too. I followed uncle Edwin where ever he went. Sitting beside him while he was boiling the water for cleaning dishes in the Convention time... or seeing uncle Edwin cooked the meal. I was interesting with the pressure cooker. Uncle Edwin finished his cook in about 15-29 minute. Now a day, worker don't cook much, special on Sunday. They often go to the restaurant, or asking visit friends with meal together. I also remember your parents, the same as my parents in law. Mom is taller than Dad. So it was easy for your Dad talking with uncle Fred around the table.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jan 28, 2014 3:39:27 GMT -5
Let's not classify people as "right" and "wrong". Better to determine whether actions are right or wrong. You put forward an interesting thought that God caused the split but it doesn't look like God's work to me. Would God have moved the workers to put a division between MT and her sister? Would God banish Uncle Chau from the Vietnamese people he spent his life serving, to spend his last days in countries where he doesn't understand the language? God sometimes works in ways we don't grasp until we see the greater picture: Would God have moved the workers to put a division between MT and her sister? Joseph? Genesis 50:20 Would God banish Uncle Chau from the Vietnamese people he spent his life serving, to spend his last days in countries where he doesn't understand the language? Abraham Gen. 12:1It's an interesting idea. I wonder what it would take for God to humble the overseers like he humbled Joseph's brethren? And yes, Hoa could be another Abraham leaving what was familiar to follow God's call into the unknown. Some more scripture that comes to mind is...
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 28, 2014 4:02:25 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 28, 2014 4:02:25 GMT -5
I would like to tell you a very nice picture in my parents family. Of course workers didn't want my sister close to me, they were afraid my influence on her. But we still love and close together. She comes to my house anytime I wanted, the same as mine to her. My parents were very sad to see their family have been torn into three parts. Anyway they try to persuade children passby the spitrituality in each person's choice, keeping the love and unity in blood. We all agree with my parents, and day by day we restore our love and unity close than before. I wonder if the workers worried or not, but all knowing that we are not doing any harm, how can we excommucate each other. Yesterday, 4 generations gathering together celebrated the new year coming. We all felt happy, special my parents seeing their children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren all playing, joking and laughing.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 28, 2014 4:27:17 GMT -5
Post by Persona non grata on Jan 28, 2014 4:27:17 GMT -5
I would like to tell you a very nice picture in my parents family. Of course workers didn't want my sister close to me, they were afraid my influence on her. But we still love and close together. She comes to my house anytime I wanted, the same as mine to her. My parents were very sad to see their family have been torn into three parts. Anyway they try to persuade children passby the spitrituality in each person's choice, keeping the love and unity in blood. We all agree with my parents, and day by day we restore our love and unity close than before. I wonder if the workers worried or not, but all knowing that we are not doing any harm, how can we excommucate each other. Yesterday, 4 generations gathering together celebrated the new year coming. We all felt happy, special my parents seeing their children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren all playing, joking and laughing. chúc mừng năm mới
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 28, 2014 4:54:32 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Jan 28, 2014 4:54:32 GMT -5
suy nghĩ của bạn
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 28, 2014 5:14:52 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 28, 2014 5:14:52 GMT -5
[/quote]
Chi MT... uncle Hoa had read TTT website then he made his own decision to leave the work.... because he felt and believed the 2x2 fellowship/ministry was a man-made religion= William Irvine was the founder.... So, he felt he had to leave the work. Is this a correct understanding from what you wrote?
Nathan, There are many different reaction among us.
First reaction we can see in our local worker Hoa. As you had said to uncle Châu knowing about the origin of this way in 2007 when your first meeting him. So they both knew about the origin of the religion. But they all kept silent for the peace of the flock, until the Canadian kicked uncle Châu out of his work, and now out of his country. It is really a cruel action for an old native worker. He loves his people, wants to speak his mother's language, and the native foods too.
Back to your question, the second reaction was our choice to leave them, while trouble happening upstraight to my family from Darrel. Seeing the overseers work was not leading us as in Bible taught or under the leading of Spirit of God. My family decided leaving them. Even wanting to leave, but I did worry that if our choice was right or not? Seeing our doubt and worry, uncle Hoa said to my husband. "Search in Google for 2x2, you can see clearly what they are." We thank for all have written there, now we are more determined for our choice with full of happiness to what God has revealed for us.
Many friends seeing the wrong attitude and bad behavior unto uncle Châu, they didn't want to welcome Canadian workers any more. Then when receiving my husband's letter to friends, expressed his faith and belief in God, through the Bible. Also telling our friend the origin of this religion. They were all happy and never wanted back to the 2x2 ism.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 28, 2014 5:50:03 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 28, 2014 5:50:03 GMT -5
chúc mừng năm mới How nice to read these Vietnamese in this board. My husband was surprised with your correct Vietnamese spelling. (He used to be a teacher Fixit, may I add two words into your words. suy nghĩ của bạn... it means "your thought" only. I would like to add 2 words suy nghĩ của bạn giống tôi. It means "Your thought the same as mine." Thanks for writing in Vietnamese, made us more close to each other.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2014 6:23:40 GMT -5
Nathan, I have clear memories of back when we brought up the issues in 2x2ism that we were eventually rejected from the fellowship over in 2001. I remember thinking as you have expressed, that there are many many good and honorable folks within the fellowship that are willing to stand up for the moral values they profess to believe in. I remember at that time, being convinced in my mind that Christian principle was something important in the fellowship, and that many of the lower ranking workers and established friends where anxious to support and stand for it. Not so!!!
The greatest disappointment in my life was not so much that a few of the leadership figures within the organization had gone wrong, but rather that a major part of the solid membership that I had trusted --- chose the easier but moral cowards way out. In spite of the fact that they knew full well the enormous corruption and self-interest at the top of their organization and the pain of their victims, 99% of them chose to follow the selfish example of the priests and the Levite in Luke 10 -- and just look the other way, and hurry by on the other side of the road.
Nathan, you have also mentioned the professing folks in Vietnam that are aware of the evil that leadership is guilty of --- but have clearly chosen to just pretend it hasn't happened -- and have chosen to turn away and leave the victims with their pain. This is 2x2ism in a nut shell. Moral deterioration of folks - from being honorable people anxious to stand for Christian values when they first professed, but then degenerating into folks who won't even move a finger to support the truth and righteousness -- but rather regarding the approval of ungodly men to be more important.
The impressive aspect of the story of these issues of corruption in Vietnam is, as I understand it, 100 of the friends being willing to separate themselves from clear evil of their overseers. This is a far higher portion of those willing to stand for truth, than in many of the similar situations in North America, or other places in the world. A very good testimony for Vietnam. I certainly admire folks like Bau and all his family members that have shown the moral courage to stand so solidly for the Christian values they have professed to believe in. We know that this comes at a cost for them.
Edgar
Luke 10:30-36 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. [31] And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. [32] And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. [33] But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, [34] And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. [35] And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. [36] Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Jan 28, 2014 9:17:56 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2014 9:17:56 GMT -5
Let's not classify people as "right" and "wrong". Better to determine whether actions are right or wrong. You put forward an interesting thought that God caused the split but it doesn't look like God's work to me. Would God have moved the workers to put a division between MT and her sister? Would God banish Uncle Chau from the Vietnamese people he spent his life serving, to spend his last days in countries where he doesn't understand the language? God sometimes works in ways we don't grasp until we see the greater picture: Would God have moved the workers to put a division between MT and her sister? Joseph? Genesis 50:20 Would God banish Uncle Chau from the Vietnamese people he spent his life serving, to spend his last days in countries where he doesn't understand the language? Abraham Gen. 12:1I agree with you that separation can be due to God.....or at least due to what we ascribe to be godly virtues and it's really no mystery. When wrong meets right, then right either stands up and opposes wrong, or simply leaves wrong. Either way, there is a separation. So if someone chooses to beat up on you, the only two proper responses is to stand up to it or get away from it. Both cause separation. Enduring it only perpetuates and legitimises it to spread even though it gives the false impression of "unity".
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 28, 2014 9:27:59 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Jan 28, 2014 9:27:59 GMT -5
Minh THanh: I think I remember you writing me that Uncle Hoa had read TTT about 5 years ago?? And that it wasnt recent that he read TTT?
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Jan 28, 2014 9:53:40 GMT -5
We know that this comes at a cost for them.
Many thanks, for your understanding our situation. My parents was in the 2x2 fellowship more than 50 years with many experiences and good memories with F&W. For you can imaging how hard for them to leave. Back to beginning, seeing my Dad not satisfied with some pastors in Protestant church. Uncle Châu had introduced to him a very true way of God, from the beginning with the workers laboring the same as from Jesus's time till now... My parents came to the meetings, seeing the very simple and friendly workers. My mother said: "I saw Jesus in their life.". My parents served and loved F&W with all their strength and whole hearted. After the liberation day, there were some doubts from the authorities about our local workers's activity (companion with foreigners). The policemen in charge of religions called my father to their office secretariat many times, asking about uncle Chau & Hoa activities. His answer was: "If you find out any wrong actions against the government from Châu & Hoa. You may cut my head first." I am, their daughter. I do know the cost they had to pay. They better hearing the call from God in. 2 Corinthians 6:17 Therefore,
“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.” Now we are happy in being received by God.
Another picture from my husband, he B&R in a very religious Catholic family. His grand uncle was the first Bishop in the South of VN, many priests and nuns among his relatives. He used to help the priest in their services at the biggest Catholic chuch of the City. He received the invitation card at the gate of The University, seeing the workers teaching Bible in English, he wanted to come for he loved to learn Bible and English as well. Hearing this was the only true way of God from Jesus (the Galilee), apart from his family and Catholic church, he professed and joined the 2x2 fellowship. Then I met him at a convention time. Being his wife, I could share with him hard treated and much complaints from my parents-in-law family, because of our faith. Never mind we cooperate to serve with all our heart, and raise our children in faithful way. We are always thinking that we are serving God (not man). But the result we get was terrible, at last God has revealed to us that it was not His True Way and we must continue seeking our God and His Kingdom everyday . For we just seeing the lie & untrue in their words or action. Treating badly to the old workers... and my family too.
We are being here just for telling the truth for friends over the world can see clearly the whole image, maybe it not the same as people speaking or hearing. We don't want to dispute in this board for wrong or right, or judgement. Just only God knows from the bottom of our heart.
|
|
|
Post by jondough on Jan 28, 2014 10:18:09 GMT -5
Emy, I see nothing to stand up for on the right side of humanity within this horrible story that has come out of VN in regard "to the Canadian workers" who have divided the people who loved their meetings and loved one another. They've managed to divide not only friends but families." IF you can show me one iota of the love of God in their actions, I'll consider to speak a iota in their favor. THIS is NOT broad-brushing, Emy...for Pete's sake...I'm and others are talking about maybe 4-5 overlording workers! If you think that speaks against those who have chosen to follow those unloving overlording workers then that's your call....NO WHERE have I said a word about those people other then they're from the divided friends and some are from the dividied families. The divisions brought about by unloving overlording workers..... Emy, some people who worship the system and allow these type of workers to tell them how to go out and to come in DO need to back up and take their lives back for a certainty IF these overlording unloving workers continue as they have and NOT learned one lessons from the Alberta excommunications, then maybe these people should worry about their eternal direction! I am not judging them, but I know what it is to wake up and find one's self following and worshipping the system and having no real idea about what our beloved Saviour went through in order that it would be enough to save ALL of mankind without having some prideful and arrogant somebodies coming in between an individual and their personal Saviour, Jesus Christ. Emy, sometimes the truth hurts very badly....and that seems to be the thrust of some overlording unloving workers these days...where IS their love of God? It can't be too evident within them in the actions that they have done in VN even AFTER having excommunicated many many people in the Alberta Excommunications...they didn't learn anything that has to do with God in that experience, but they sure learned how to scare and control! Now they're using it on the poor dear VN friends and native workers! Do you consider that shows the love of God, Emy? In another thread speaking of a different topic someone said: If people believe that the F&W are the right way to go that is their belief. Why do you think your belief is any more valid that theirs? Because you have seen the light? I thought of this discussion when I read that. How is it so obvious to any person on the other side of the world which workers and which friends are right? And as I said before, who's to say that God has not led both groups into what is the right place for them? Remember, it wasn't God's work that ever divided his people. He did allow many bad things to happen, And he does restore....but don't mistake this division for a work of God. Its simply not so. Its a work of man. Hopefully, God will eventually clean up man's mess, and he will use it for the Good of his kingdom. I think its wrong to pin something like this on God. Blame God for it. How can we blame God for this when he sent an example of himself through Jesus?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Jan 28, 2014 10:54:31 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2014 10:54:31 GMT -5
In another thread speaking of a different topic someone said: If people believe that the F&W are the right way to go that is their belief. Why do you think your belief is any more valid that theirs? Because you have seen the light? I thought of this discussion when I read that. How is it so obvious to any person on the other side of the world which workers and which friends are right? And as I said before, who's to say that God has not led both groups into what is the right place for them? Remember, it wasn't God's work that ever divided his people. He did allow many bad things to happen, And he does restore....but don't mistake this division for a work of God. Its simply not so. Its a work of man. Hopefully, God will eventually clean up man's mess, and he will use it for the Good of his kingdom. I think its wrong to pin something like this on God. Blame God for it. How can we blame God for this when he sent an example of himself through Jesus? Completely true. God only brings people together and heals wounds. God doesn't decide to have a little sport with people by pitting them against each other to see who comes out on top.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 28, 2014 11:41:39 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 28, 2014 11:41:39 GMT -5
Minh THanh: I think I remember you writing me that Uncle Hoa had read TTT about 5 years ago?? And that it wasnt recent that he read TTT? Yes, that's right. He read ttt 5 years ago. And in 2013 he told my husband seached in google " two by two" and when my husband read "the transfer oversight letter of uncle Fred Allan, and he saw at the bottom of the letter a list of names which uncle Fred forwarded the copies to. My husband noticed the name Eldon Tenniswood, Willis Propp, Paul Sharp...He googled Eldon Tenniswood and he knew The Alberta Excommunication, then we was able to contact Edgarmassey and he gradually discovered the website Telling The Truth. My husband was very glad to see that the issue of Vietnam was not lonely, and he translated the letter of uncle Bob (father of sister worker Margaret") and shared it to friends and workers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 4:31:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 29, 2014 9:21:10 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Jan 29, 2014 9:21:10 GMT -5
I didn't know how uncle know about TTT website. A few months before, I had asked uncle Hoa:" may I post his heart letter into TMB board and send to Cherrie as her required". He agreed and said "Say hello to Cherrie and thanks for her hard working, said to Cherrie that I had read her website 5 years ago. Her writing helped me decide to leave for seeing things happened in VN, just the same as many things she had written." That all I know about uncle Hoa concerning to the TTT website. You may ask him. While uncle Hoa left the work and fellowship, we all still in the fellowship with friends. Until uncle Lyle tried to find a reason to stop the fellowship (church) at my older sister house, where we and my parents took part. Now there is only my youngest sister house still have the church, her family is a biggest help for 2x2. We don't remember when we left, maybe after uncle Hoa left more than a year. With us the origin is not very important. the importance is what kind of fruit we see. Is that the Spririt's fruits or not? One time my daughter said that:" if there hadn't been the mess happening, she wouldn't have believed what she could read on internet or The Telling The Truth website. Not many among the golden friends know about TTT, and the reason they left not because reading on TTT website. Just very few of them can read and understand English. [/quote]
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Jan 29, 2014 9:21:39 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 9:21:39 GMT -5
The workers seem to be struggling to adjust to the modern communication age. Situations such as those in Canada, Vietnam, NZ etc are bound to continue to happen around the world. Younger people are increasingly unafraid of asking questions - compared to the situation where we were afraid to ask questions and often the conversation was shut down when we did. I wonder if they have met to work out how to get on top of the issue. Most churches have responded to the communication age by using the internet/social media to promote the Bible and the gospel message. Many bible based churches have podcasts of their sermons on their website which anyone around the world can listen to. We live in a global age and they are a global church. Why not use the facilities available to promote their message? If they don't how can they counter the difficulties they are experiencing? Difficulties can rarely be addressed by putting one's head in the sand. This should answer your questions roscoe: Go to God. Let God take care of it. The way is perfect, the people are not. Our overseers are closer to God than us. All is well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Jan 29, 2014 12:18:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 12:18:35 GMT -5
The workers seem to be struggling to adjust to the modern communication age. Situations such as those in Canada, Vietnam, NZ etc are bound to continue to happen around the world. Younger people are increasingly unafraid of asking questions - compared to the situation where we were afraid to ask questions and often the conversation was shut down when we did. I wonder if they have met to work out how to get on top of the issue. Most churches have responded to the communication age by using the Internet/social media to promote the Bible and the gospel message. Many bible based churches have podcasts of their sermons on their website which anyone around the world can listen to. We live in a global age and they are a global church. Why not use the facilities available to promote their message? If they don't how can they counter the difficulties they are experiencing? Difficulties can rarely be addressed by putting one's head in the sand. Dealing with the communication age isn't a problem unless there is a perceived need of censoring communication. A good thing that has developed along with access to information via the Internet is the basic mindset in people that everything we read or hear needs to be subject to some kind of a verification process for credibility. This mind-set is just as much of a problem for 2x2ism as the availability of Internet information. This means that workers accounts of things have also become subject to this need for credibility verification in the minds of modern people --- And as we know, workers accounts have proven, time and time again, to be openly deceptive and consciously misleading, in every way possible. This revelation is a greater threat to 2x2ism than the Internet itself. 2x2ism doesn't stand up to even the mildest forms of credibility examination. If it ever becomes weighed in any just balance, it is found wanting!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 12:43:33 GMT -5
Thank you, Edgar for your work and link to that Vietnam site. How people can continue in their staunch 2&2 worker support in the light of what has happened there and throughout the world, is beyond some of us. And this has everything to do with the love of and for those people we've had to leave behind there.
Expressing only for myself, my Absolute is found in my Lord and God and HIS (Will, Word and Power) workings in my life. Without them, I'd have no such beliefs at all.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 29, 2014 14:04:31 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Jan 29, 2014 14:04:31 GMT -5
Dealing with the communication age isn't a problem unless there is a perceived need of censoring communication. A good thing that has developed along with access to information via the Internet is the basic mindset in people that everything we read or hear needs to be subject to some kind of a verification process for credibility. This mind-set is just as much of a problem for 2x2ism as the availability of Internet information. This means that workers accounts of things have also become subject to this need for credibility verification in the minds of modern people --- And as we know, workers accounts have proven, time and time again, to be openly deceptive and consciously misleading, in every way possible. This revelation is a greater threat to 2x2ism than the Internet itself. 2x2ism doesn't stand up to even the mildest forms of credibility examination. If it ever becomes weighed in any just balance, it is found wanting!! The politics and system/worker-worship of 2x2ism (created things) is what doesn't stand up. The basic truths we were raised with cannot be shaken.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 14:12:33 GMT -5
Mr Fixit... Sir: For me, 2&2ism or that doctrine preached by workers, along with it's consequences is what I challenge (and I believe Edgar does also) here and now. NOT the scripture, nor what any of us (including you) believe we may have gained from it's reading, study and knowledge over the intervening years. Now I am in just too much pain to sit and type here any longer.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 29, 2014 15:00:07 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 29, 2014 15:00:07 GMT -5
Mr Fixit... Sir: For me, 2&2ism or that doctrine preached by workers, along with it's consequences is what I challenge and I believe Edgar also) here and now. NOT the scripture, nor what any of us (including you) believe we may have gained from it's reading, study and knowledge over the intervening years. Now I am in just too much pain to sit and type here any longer. Dennis, I'm so every sorry that pain eats into anything you might like to do. I can fully understand that...I just got back from my rheumatologies(I was sent to him due to the need for pain meds) and he told me today that it was really my call when I was under severe pain and disability...there's times my pelvis slips out of place and I can't straighten up much less walk! So I pray that we both can find a way to keep on enjoying what life we do have...and I'm so very glad you have your "Katie" girl! Bless her heart! Sharon I.
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 29, 2014 16:12:53 GMT -5
Post by snow on Jan 29, 2014 16:12:53 GMT -5
Mr Fixit... Sir: For me, 2&2ism or that doctrine preached by workers, along with it's consequences is what I challenge and I believe Edgar also) here and now. NOT the scripture, nor what any of us (including you) believe we may have gained from it's reading, study and knowledge over the intervening years. Now I am in just too much pain to sit and type here any longer. Dennis, I'm so every sorry that pain eats into anything you might like to do. I can fully understand that...I just got back from my rheumatologies(I was sent to him due to the need for pain meds) and he told me today that it was really my call when I was under severe pain and disability...there's times my pelvis slips out of place and I can't straighten up much less walk! So I pray that we both can find a way to keep on enjoying what life we do have...and I'm so very glad you have your "Katie" girl! Bless her heart! Sharon I. Having had to work with a failed back surgery for 13 years now I certainly know what it's like to be in chronic pain. However, I have learned to pace myself, take pain meds before it gets crazy bad and pick and chose what I can do, what I like to do etc. It's a balancing act. Mostly I try not to think too much about it. It is too depressing. Hard to do when it's in your face constantly. So I sure wish there was something that could be done about these things, but sometimes all that can be done is live with them. I can't have any more surgery so that's not an option for me. I sure hope that there are options for you and Dennis.
|
|
|
Post by vutrunghien on Jan 29, 2014 21:13:08 GMT -5
Mr. Fred Allen and me
Even now, I still love and respect the first 2X2 missionary to Vietnam, Mr. Fred Allen, as my dear teacher.
During a period of about 15 years, off and on, Mr. Allen was my English teacher. Even when I was in college, when there were difficult words or sentences, I went to him for the best answers.
Mr. Allen used Essential English as the textbook to teach me and other students. At the end of each class, he would have us write a dictation which he just read from memory, and this was one of the things I admired him most about his knowledge.
The English pronunciation that Mr. Allen was teaching us was more like the one used by Americans and the English people, quite different from the accent that many Australians was using when I was visited this country in 2005.
I visited Mr. Allen often when my brother Vu Ngoc Chau was staying with him.
Sometimes I was asked to stay for a meal. Mr. Allen went to the market and prepared the food himself, of course with the assistance of my brother.
One of the things I learned from him in preparing food was he didn’t peel the skin of Japanese squash (a kind of flat shape pumpkin) like the Vietnamese used to do. The squash was just cleaned, and cut into pieces before being put into the pressure cooker with beef and other vegetables. Before coming to the two- bedroom house that Mr. Allen was renting, I had never seen a pressure cooker, so I was quite impressed with its magic function……(to be continued)
|
|
|
Post by xuanhoan on Jan 30, 2014 0:18:51 GMT -5
Hi! My name Xuân Hoàn. I'm Minh Thanh's husband. I'm used to be a catholic. My big family and all my relatives are in Catholic. I'm in the way alone. I am happy to have my wife and two children accompanying me on this way. I tell you a little about why I followed on this way. I was born and raised in Catholic. I was very zealous with my belief. Since my childhood, I studied and lived in a school belonging to catholic with many priests as teachers. some teachers were French. My mother loved me and taught me to say prayers. My mother and the seven brothers and sisters went to church every day. In my heart I wanted to know more about God, but going to the church attending the services and listening to the preaching of the priests, I didn't understand much the Bible. In 1973 I was studying at the University of Dalat. One day the class was over and I came home. When I passed through the exit gate, I saw two ladies, one American the other Vietnamese. They were distributing the inviting cards. I received one. I read on it. They invited to the gospel meeting at a rented room in a private school in Dalat. I didn't go to any preaching places of some denominations because the priests said to me that it was not good to go there. But in the inviting card, besides the gospel meeting, there was a Bible class in English. So I chose to go to this Bible class with intention to learn English, not listening to gospel meeting according to the advice of the priest. At the first time of Bible class, I was impressed of an American speaking Vietnamese extremely beautifully, fluently. We began with book Luke. The servant (at that time she only introduced herself as servant of God, I didn't hear the word worker) asked each student to read one phrase, then she explained fully the meaning of that sentence. We rotated to read from this chapter to another. and after a few months I felt very interested because I understood any part of Bible I had learnt. I uttered that I had seen Jesus as if Our Lord was present somewhere and I had courage to have another step - going to the gospel meeting. She preached in Vietnamese clearly, concisely, full of meaning with Hanoi accent (the most standard Vietnamese accent). If we hadn't seen her, only listened to her voice I am sure we would have confused her with a 100 per cent Vietnamese. Her name Bonnie Dahlin. And after some months, auntie Phillis Mun added to them. Auntie Phillis spoke Vietnamese the same as auntie Bonnie, she was gentler. You can imagine how excited I was. I professed at that time and a few months later the liberation day came. All the foreigner servants left the country. I was only believer in Dalat, it is far from the main city of Saigon 300 km. Before auntie Bonnie left, she wrote me a letter to the effect that "Don't be afraid of death but afraid that whether we will still keep our faith to the end" (It's too long, I will continue in another post)
|
|
|
Vietnam
Jan 30, 2014 1:31:51 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Jan 30, 2014 1:31:51 GMT -5
Dear Uncle Fred would turn in his grave to know that power-hungry foreigners are scattering the flock who he laid down his life for.
I'm glad you had the opportunity to know a true servant of God: Uncle Fred.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Jan 30, 2014 10:40:37 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 10:40:37 GMT -5
Hi! My name Xuân Hoàn. I'm Minh Thanh's husband. I'm used to be a catholic. My big family and all my relatives are in Catholic. I'm in the way alone. I am happy to have my wife and two children accompanying me on this way. I tell you a little about why I followed on this way. I was born and raised in Catholic. I was very zealous with my belief. Since my childhood, I studied and lived in a school belonging to catholic with many priests as teachers. some teachers were French. My mother loved me and taught me to say prayers. My mother and the seven brothers and sisters went to church every day. In my heart I wanted to know more about God, but going to the church attending the services and listening to the preaching of the priests, I didn't understand much the Bible. In 1973 I was studying at the University of Dalat. One day the class was over and I came home. When I passed through the exit gate, I saw two ladies, one American the other Vietnamese. They were distributing the inviting cards. I received one. I read on it. They invited to the gospel meeting at a rented room in a private school in Dalat. I didn't go to any preaching places of some denominations because the priests said to me that it was not good to go there. But in the inviting card, besides the gospel meeting, there was a Bible class in English. So I chose to go to this Bible class with intention to learn English, not listening to gospel meeting according to the advice of the priest. At the first time of Bible class, I was impressed of an American speaking Vietnamese extremely beautifully, fluently. We began with book Luke. The servant (at that time she only introduced herself as servant of God, I didn't hear the word worker) asked each student to read one phrase, then she explained fully the meaning of that sentence. We rotated to read from this chapter to another. and after a few months I felt very interested because I understood any part of Bible I had learnt. I uttered that I had seen Jesus as if Our Lord was present somewhere and I had courage to have another step - going to the gospel meeting. She preached in Vietnamese clearly, concisely, full of meaning with Hanoi accent (the most standard Vietnamese accent). If we hadn't seen her, only listened to her voice I am sure we would have confused her with a 100 per cent Vietnamese. Her name Bonnie Dahlin. And after some months, auntie Phillis Mun added to them. Auntie Phillis spoke Vietnamese the same as auntie Bonnie, she was gentler. You can imagine how excited I was. I professed at that time and a few months later the liberation day came. All the foreigner servants left the country. I was only believer in Dalat, it is far from the main city of Saigon 300 km. Before auntie Bonnie left, she wrote me a letter to the effect that "Don't be afraid of death but afraid that whether we will still keep our faith to the end" (It's too long, I will continue in another post) Thanks for your story, and for sharing your feelings and convictions with us here on TMB, as you and your wife have done these last months. Look forward to hearing more of your story, as you have time to share it. Especially interesting seeing you are first generation professing while your wife was born and raised in 2x2ism. I was born and raised in 2x2ism but my wife like you, was involved with other religion (the Jehova Wittnesses) before she heard the workers and professed .. She also has good memories of the workers that she heard first, and felt quite betrayed when all the friends and workers turned their backs on her (and our children), because I had critisized the workers as I had.
|
|