|
|
Vietnam
Dec 20, 2013 1:46:17 GMT -5
Post by quizzer on Dec 20, 2013 1:46:17 GMT -5
Just a question that popped up for me. Why have workers at all if they are such a pain? LOL. Y'know, I think that is the major question that gets folks out of the meeting and into other belief systems (or lack of them altogether). |
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 20, 2013 10:47:31 GMT -5
Some truths are so funny ,it isn't funny! This has been a severe problem since the day of the inception of the workers and friends...I believe the workers would have been better off continuing their efforts like other religions, they do the evangelistic work and let the converts go to whatever church they so desire! Jealousy againsgt all the other churches caused many rebellious doings and it still has an effect! Condemning other churches seems to be against the rules about judgment. These are other Christian churches they are condemning. Do they really think they are better or understand the bible better than any other churches? I can understand it if it was condemning other religions. That just what religions do. But your own? Seems self defeating to me. When the Living Witness doctrine became viable in the 2x2 workership, this was when the idea that the 2x2's were "the only true way" simply because no one could be saved IF they didn't come to it through a worker! This is the poison that has corrupted the workership... I'll try to explain it differently so some might understand better what has happened. My mother and father divorced about the time I was 3 y/o....after that divorce and all 3 of their children were moved 3 states away to their grandmothers, my father started saying to himself that not all of us 3 children were his. He'd contended from the beginning that my brother wasn't his, so he begin to tell himself lies that since I was the youngest that I wasn't his. He lived with his own lies so long that the man actually believed his own lie...of course his father helped him along by being the person who instigated the lie or the need for the lie....the only way that my father could remarry and be accepted by his church was that my mother be labeled as being unfaithful to him......so years later more then 43 yrs. at that, things became so doubtful to our father that he even doubted the middle child was his......so the middle child got him to agree to doing a DNA of the 2 of us and he did and it all came back that we both were his with a 99 plus percent.....mine actually was much higher then the middle ones, that proved to him just how wrong he had been all through the years and I hope it made him aware of his need for repentance of all the dirty words he ever spoke about our mother...which he was not lax in speaking a considerable amount of them to me even to the point in a derogatory manner saying I was just like my blanket-blanket mother......all of this was something I had wished I had never met.....he did somewhat apologize in a very unrecognizable way AFTER the DNA proved he'd lived a lie nearly his whole life and the damnation he put on our mother's head and mine as well was nothing more then rotten sin! This story is about people telling lies so long that they begin to believe them as truth when it isn't truth at all, but a brainwashed mind! The workers are worshipped by those who are "less" under their guideance and the workers are incited with the thought that they are the only ones with the right way of salvation and only they have the power to give such to anyone that all other churches are "false" churches and all the false churches ministers are false prophets and all that are members of them are on their way to hell in a handbucket! ALL of this simply because the Living Witness doctrine was so fervently embraced by the founders of the religion! |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 20, 2013 12:37:15 GMT -5
Post by snow on Dec 20, 2013 12:37:15 GMT -5
Condemning other churches seems to be against the rules about judgment. These are other Christian churches they are condemning. Do they really think they are better or understand the bible better than any other churches? I can understand it if it was condemning other religions. That just what religions do. But your own? Seems self defeating to me. When the Living Witness doctrine became viable in the 2x2 workership, this was when the idea that the 2x2's were "the only true way" simply because no one could be saved IF they didn't come to it through a worker! This is the poison that has corrupted the workership... I'll try to explain it differently so some might understand better what has happened. My mother and father divorced about the time I was 3 y/o....after that divorce and all 3 of their children were moved 3 states away to their grandmothers, my father started saying to himself that not all of us 3 children were his. He'd contended from the beginning that my brother wasn't his, so he begin to tell himself lies that since I was the youngest that I wasn't his. He lived with his own lies so long that the man actually believed his own lie...of course his father helped him along by being the person who instigated the lie or the need for the lie....the only way that my father could remarry and be accepted by his church was that my mother be labeled as being unfaithful to him......so years later more then 43 yrs. at that, things became so doubtful to our father that he even doubted the middle child was his......so the middle child got him to agree to doing a DNA of the 2 of us and he did and it all came back that we both were his with a 99 plus percent.....mine actually was much higher then the middle ones, that proved to him just how wrong he had been all through the years and I hope it made him aware of his need for repentance of all the dirty words he ever spoke about our mother...which he was not lax in speaking a considerable amount of them to me even to the point in a derogatory manner saying I was just like my blanket-blanket mother......all of this was something I had wished I had never met.....he did somewhat apologize in a very unrecognizable way AFTER the DNA proved he'd lived a lie nearly his whole life and the damnation he put on our mother's head and mine as well was nothing more then rotten sin! This story is about people telling lies so long that they begin to believe them as truth when it isn't truth at all, but a brainwashed mind! The workers are worshipped by those who are "less" under their guideance and the workers are incited with the thought that they are the only ones with the right way of salvation and only they have the power to give such to anyone that all other churches are "false" churches and all the false churches ministers are false prophets and all that are members of them are on their way to hell in a handbucket! ALL of this simply because the Living Witness doctrine was so fervently embraced by the founders of the religion! So this wasn't the way it was from the beginning then. I certainly do agree that it could have been a slow, insidious thing that finally became believed. We humans do have that ability to fool ourselves. Makes sense that it happened like that if it wasn't there from the beginning. Was both your parents professing STR? That was sad that he felt he had to disown some of his children. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 20, 2013 20:35:06 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 20, 2013 20:35:06 GMT -5
Everyone has the right to their opinion whether or not we agree with it. Depends what you mean by a right. I don't think anyone has an absolute right to their opinion. Unlike Sunday morning meetings the nice thing about TMB is that opinions can be challenged, sustained, or overruled. But I do understand how strife can be a vanity unto itself. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 20, 2013 20:38:05 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 20, 2013 20:38:05 GMT -5
Don't worry, Lee. I'm probably quite eccentric. One of these times you will understand me and ... my goodness, I will begin to worry.  Its not your eccentricity that bothers me but your ideological pogrom against Christians and your willingness to take liberties with the truth, and that isn't fit for a teacher. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 20, 2013 21:00:02 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 20, 2013 21:00:02 GMT -5
Condemning other churches seems to be against the rules about judgment. These are other Christian churches they are condemning. Do they really think they are better or understand the bible better than any other churches? I can understand it if it was condemning other religions. That just what religions do. But your own? Seems self defeating to me. When the Living Witness doctrine became viable in the 2x2 workership, this was when the idea that the 2x2's were "the only true way" simply because no one could be saved IF they didn't come to it through a worker! This is the poison that has corrupted the workership... I'll try to explain it differently so some might understand better what has happened. My mother and father divorced about the time I was 3 y/o....after that divorce and all 3 of their children were moved 3 states away to their grandmothers, my father started saying to himself that not all of us 3 children were his. He'd contended from the beginning that my brother wasn't his, so he begin to tell himself lies that since I was the youngest that I wasn't his. He lived with his own lies so long that the man actually believed his own lie...of course his father helped him along by being the person who instigated the lie or the need for the lie....the only way that my father could remarry and be accepted by his church was that my mother be labeled as being unfaithful to him......so years later more then 43 yrs. at that, things became so doubtful to our father that he even doubted the middle child was his......so the middle child got him to agree to doing a DNA of the 2 of us and he did and it all came back that we both were his with a 99 plus percent.....mine actually was much higher then the middle ones, that proved to him just how wrong he had been all through the years and I hope it made him aware of his need for repentance of all the dirty words he ever spoke about our mother...which he was not lax in speaking a considerable amount of them to me even to the point in a derogatory manner saying I was just like my blanket-blanket mother......all of this was something I had wished I had never met.....he did somewhat apologize in a very unrecognizable way AFTER the DNA proved he'd lived a lie nearly his whole life and the damnation he put on our mother's head and mine as well was nothing more then rotten sin! This story is about people telling lies so long that they begin to believe them as truth when it isn't truth at all, but a brainwashed mind! The workers are worshipped by those who are "less" under their guideance and the workers are incited with the thought that they are the only ones with the right way of salvation and only they have the power to give such to anyone that all other churches are "false" churches and all the false churches ministers are false prophets and all that are members of them are on their way to hell in a handbucket! ALL of this simply because the Living Witness doctrine was so fervently embraced by the founders of the religion!
How terrible that must have been for all of you.
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 20, 2013 22:29:22 GMT -5
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 20, 2013 22:29:22 GMT -5
Don't worry, Lee. I'm probably quite eccentric. One of these times you will understand me and ... my goodness, I will begin to worry. Its not your eccentricity that bothers me but your ideological pogrom against Christians and your willingness to take liberties with the truth, and that isn't fit for a teacher. Well, at least you know I don't agree with your truths. Actually, much of the time I can't even figure them out. But I try. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 20, 2013 22:51:37 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 20, 2013 22:51:37 GMT -5
Its not your disagreement with my truths that's wrong but the truth. For instance Paul didn't say that it was okay to lie in the way you insinuated in order to gain a convert. Your eccentricity seems most closely related to atheism.
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 20, 2013 22:57:51 GMT -5
Post by Lee on Dec 20, 2013 22:57:51 GMT -5
I don't think you're very eccentric frankly, you're politically correct.
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 2:39:24 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Dec 21, 2013 2:39:24 GMT -5
We were called to Dalat, for my husband doing something about network connection for uncle Hoa. My husband used to be an information technology teacher .
Uncle Hoa on his way visiting friends here and there, especially the remote places. I would like to send some pictures for you can see and understand our situation in VN. But I don’t know how to post them. May be I will send to Edgar for he can help me post it and give the links on TMB.
Moris. G came to visit my parents before he returned back to Canada for his treatment. They were all happy together until at the end of his visit, he asked : “If Mr Hoa died, who would lead you…?” With this question makes clear to me that, they all under the leading of man…
Infact we all under the leading of God… We used to live in Dalat for 25 years, but workers didn’t have much time to visit us, we had the gathering with friends through years, under the leading of God. Helping and encouraging together.
Moris G also said to my father; “What’s a pity of you, you cut your hand out of the Universal fellowship.”
My father replied : “Now I have had the true fellowship around the world with understanding in Internet with full of joy, you may put your eyes on it and see… I felt pity for you too. “
Yes, reading all the post, I can see clearly every trouble of us in it.
Today I will tell you the reason they spoke out to chase uncle Chau out of his work.
Then I will tell you uncle Dale letter ( Exactly as Edgar post, he has two faces in a matter !...)
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 6:52:10 GMT -5
Post by quizzer on Dec 21, 2013 6:52:10 GMT -5
Then I will tell you uncle Dale letter ( Exactly as Edgar post, he has two faces in a matter !...)
minhthanh - "two-faced," your English is improving by leaps and bounds. Good use of an English phrase!!! |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 8:05:38 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Dec 21, 2013 8:05:38 GMT -5
After the Singapore convention 2009 with the question of two overseers… We had paid a lot of money for the fare of my parents, my sisters, could go together with me and my daughter & her son. It’s the first convention my daughter attended, but she had to go through many sad experiences that she decided “Never go to any convention again…”
Not only seeing the friends trying to had good places for staying in the convention place, in spite of the old ladies or the babies!... but also seeing the sister workers just only attach exaggerated importance of outside, not inside!...
(It’s better let my daughter tell her sad story, facing with sister worker !...)
She felt disappointed...
Special meeting in VN was the beginning of 2010, we had privilege to welcome workers as well as many others friends with full of joy (Just a little sad with miss E.M who had spoken harsh words to uncle Chau, when she saw uncle Châu staying at my house for taking an afternoon nap.
Maybe she (Canadian elderly sister worker) knew in advance uncle Chau no longer would be in his work !...)
Morris G. had left a big suitcase at my house… saying “I’ll return in a month”.
By this time all the elders was announced to go to Saigon for the elders meeting with workers… next month.
We never knew or could image it was the big meeting with all elders, all workers (except uncle Chau), overseers and guest workers from USA, Japan, Indonesia… to chase our local worker (Chau) out of his labor !...
Three visitors spoke in the meeting, they all praised uncle Chau was a lovely, friendly and humble worker …
But he had to leave the work for “Solving the selling of the house”.
From that time he wasn’t allowed to have any activities on the church, even leading the meeting, although there weren’t any workers in that meeting!...
They prevented my husband speak out, because they knew for sure that it was a lie reason . As I had mentioned, all the paperwork relating to the selling of the house was completely done on 3th of December 2009, The elders meeting was hold three months later.
You see, Uncle Dale and Darrel told a lie to all friends and workers and guest workers (Tsutomu Miyata, Simeon Sarmiento). Uncle Châu didn’t have to do anything more until under the pressure of friends he was permitted to restore his place again, secretly without any announcement. The presence of guest workers just simply decorated the action of Dale Schutz and Darrel. In that meeting, we only heard the praise of uncle Châu from the guest workers.
Just a few months later, day by day Darrel exposed his malice, stopping the work of uncle Châu to solve the house was only an excuse (a lie). He wanted to expel uncle Châu permanently, not accepted uncle Chau back to the work. He tried to make up bad story telling to elders as if they were true happenning !... (Involved my family to their victim with uncle Châu)
Sadly that many workers and friends believed it, because it come from the overseer !... Not only believed it, but also try to find and search things against our local workers, just only showing to others that they are real sinners.
(Sharingtheriches… I have read your father’s lie, I can feel how painful in your heart before the lie from one we should respect!)
When we were back to Dalat last 3 days…
One sister friend told us she was disappointed with these sister workers… The sisters were cooing confidences to elders from Darrel’ side, even in the special meeting time… Whenever seeing her coming they immediately kept silent… There was a very heavy asmostphere in the meetings…
At last the elders asked our friends to choose which side or out of their fellowship.
Our two sister friends were too happy to choose being continue with the leading of God. Our older sister had 50 years faithful, sharing , through this hard condition, she felt growing in her faith, and closer to God, thanks for the happening help us know our needy, being with God than with man.
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 12:46:55 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 21, 2013 12:46:55 GMT -5
When the Living Witness doctrine became viable in the 2x2 workership, this was when the idea that the 2x2's were "the only true way" simply because no one could be saved IF they didn't come to it through a worker! This is the poison that has corrupted the workership... I'll try to explain it differently so some might understand better what has happened. My mother and father divorced about the time I was 3 y/o....after that divorce and all 3 of their children were moved 3 states away to their grandmothers, my father started saying to himself that not all of us 3 children were his. He'd contended from the beginning that my brother wasn't his, so he begin to tell himself lies that since I was the youngest that I wasn't his. He lived with his own lies so long that the man actually believed his own lie...of course his father helped him along by being the person who instigated the lie or the need for the lie....the only way that my father could remarry and be accepted by his church was that my mother be labeled as being unfaithful to him......so years later more then 43 yrs. at that, things became so doubtful to our father that he even doubted the middle child was his......so the middle child got him to agree to doing a DNA of the 2 of us and he did and it all came back that we both were his with a 99 plus percent.....mine actually was much higher then the middle ones, that proved to him just how wrong he had been all through the years and I hope it made him aware of his need for repentance of all the dirty words he ever spoke about our mother...which he was not lax in speaking a considerable amount of them to me even to the point in a derogatory manner saying I was just like my blanket-blanket mother......all of this was something I had wished I had never met.....he did somewhat apologize in a very unrecognizable way AFTER the DNA proved he'd lived a lie nearly his whole life and the damnation he put on our mother's head and mine as well was nothing more then rotten sin! This story is about people telling lies so long that they begin to believe them as truth when it isn't truth at all, but a brainwashed mind! The workers are worshipped by those who are "less" under their guideance and the workers are incited with the thought that they are the only ones with the right way of salvation and only they have the power to give such to anyone that all other churches are "false" churches and all the false churches ministers are false prophets and all that are members of them are on their way to hell in a handbucket! ALL of this simply because the Living Witness doctrine was so fervently embraced by the founders of the religion! So this wasn't the way it was from the beginning then. I certainly do agree that it could have been a slow, insidious thing that finally became believed. We humans do have that ability to fool ourselves. Makes sense that it happened like that if it wasn't there from the beginning. Was both your parents professing STR? That was sad that he felt he had to disown some of his children. No they weren't professing...my mother was born the same year that my grandparents professed, she was the last child of a very large family. My dad knew nothing about the fellowship until one year my mother met her sister at the Denver conv. Dad was so impressed that he decided he might want to get involved....well, as it were 2 sister workers came to our home to converse with them and when dad knew it was sister workers as ministers he quickly tossed them out of his home and told them to never darken the door again. After that there was a lot of animosity toward my mother because she refused to go to church with dad's parents and thus they found out that she believed in women preachers....all of that was one of the things that eroded their marriage! Mom professed many years later about 3 and half years before she died! I believe that William Irvine had a very big ego because he'd been a coal mine supervisor and he then was a superintendent for the Faith Mission or something of that ilk and though it is said by the beginning workers that WI didn't want the top job but he sure took it...I feel he knew that he should act humble in order to be more sure of getting it. He relished his top position. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 13:01:30 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 13:01:30 GMT -5
We were called to Dalat, for my husband doing something about network connection for uncle Hoa. My husband used to be an information technology teacher .
Uncle Hoa on his way visiting friends here and there, especially the remote places. I would like to send some pictures for you can see and understand our situation in VN. But I don’t know how to post them. May be I will send to Edgar for he can help me post it and give the links on TMB.
Moris. G came to visit my parents before he returned back to Canada for his treatment. They were all happy together until at the end of his visit, he asked : “If Mr Hoa died, who would lead you…?” With this question makes clear to me that, they all under the leading of man…
Infact we all under the leading of God… We used to live in Dalat for 25 years, but workers didn’t have much time to visit us, we had the gathering with friends through years, under the leading of God. Helping and encouraging together.
Moris G also said to my father; “What’s a pity of you, you cut your hand out of the Universal fellowship.”
My father replied : “Now I have had the true fellowship around the world with understanding in Internet with full of joy, you may put your eyes on it and see… I felt pity for you too. “
Minh Thanh, During the golden years, was Mr.Hoa the main person whom the friends and workers went to for advice? What about Mr.Bau? What was his role among the friends? Did people come to him for advice? Did he make many decisions regarding the meetings? |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 13:34:45 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 21, 2013 13:34:45 GMT -5
Well, it would serve some definition if we were to look at Pharoah and what God said about Pharoah, that God had made Pharoah as he was so that God's name would be glorified! And this was all around the horrible disasters that was put upon the Egyptian people......Didn't God say that even the overcoming of the Egyptian army in the sea or river that the children of Israel had passed over on dry land, but as the Egyptian army drew near, God released that wall of water as the Eygptian army started over the river or sea like the COI had done before them! Is this a revenging God? I'm not certain how many see all of that other then it being drastic and murderous but at the same time if we look at the whole story, we can see God is working all things to the glory of HIs name! When you believe in a single almighty being you will find that there is absolutely no end to the need for apologetics of any imaginable number of stripes. The more you learn about it, monotheism has to be the master of confusion. There's only confusion if a person doesn't believe in that paranormal! |
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 21, 2013 13:43:44 GMT -5
Some truths are so funny ,it isn't funny! This has been a severe problem since the day of the inception of the workers and friends...I believe the workers would have been better off continuing their efforts like other religions, they do the evangelistic work and let the converts go to whatever church they so desire! Jealousy againsgt all the other churches caused many rebellious doings and it still has an effect! Condemning other churches seems to be against the rules about judgment. These are other Christian churches they are condemning. Do they really think they are better or understand the bible better than any other churches? I can understand it if it was condemning other religions. That just what religions do. But your own? Seems self defeating to me. It IS very self-defeating but few understand that...and yes, a considerable number of 2x2's have been well indoctrinated that the 2x2's is the "only true way" so I'd have to say they consider themselves "better" then other churches....they call other churches false sanctuary and they call other preachers a false prophet! These are the very things that caused a lot of people to choose the 2x2's....they had no way in those days to check into such a thing and when the workers came before them with nothing more then the clothes on their backs and even not sure where their next meal is coming from...this all impressed a hungry audience and when it was mentioned to that that they were the continuation of the Acts of the Apostles OR they were all the way back to the shores of Galilee..spiritually hungry people fell for that hook ,line and sinker! I'm no better then anyone else...from toddler hood to elder hood I believed that the workers were the only the ones who had the "right gospel" UNTIL I came in contact with the facts of the origination of the 2x2 workership....and then the fellowship.....the beginning workers had had NO thought of having a group of people under them, but once that came into an almost automatic thing the friends worshipped the workers and it didn't matter what the heck those workers got into even in abusive tongue, etc.... |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 13:56:09 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 21, 2013 13:56:09 GMT -5
When the Living Witness doctrine became viable in the 2x2 workership, this was when the idea that the 2x2's were "the only true way" simply because no one could be saved IF they didn't come to it through a worker! This is the poison that has corrupted the workership... I'll try to explain it differently so some might understand better what has happened. My mother and father divorced about the time I was 3 y/o....after that divorce and all 3 of their children were moved 3 states away to their grandmothers, my father started saying to himself that not all of us 3 children were his. He'd contended from the beginning that my brother wasn't his, so he begin to tell himself lies that since I was the youngest that I wasn't his. He lived with his own lies so long that the man actually believed his own lie...of course his father helped him along by being the person who instigated the lie or the need for the lie....the only way that my father could remarry and be accepted by his church was that my mother be labeled as being unfaithful to him......so years later more then 43 yrs. at that, things became so doubtful to our father that he even doubted the middle child was his......so the middle child got him to agree to doing a DNA of the 2 of us and he did and it all came back that we both were his with a 99 plus percent.....mine actually was much higher then the middle ones, that proved to him just how wrong he had been all through the years and I hope it made him aware of his need for repentance of all the dirty words he ever spoke about our mother...which he was not lax in speaking a considerable amount of them to me even to the point in a derogatory manner saying I was just like my blanket-blanket mother......all of this was something I had wished I had never met.....he did somewhat apologize in a very unrecognizable way AFTER the DNA proved he'd lived a lie nearly his whole life and the damnation he put on our mother's head and mine as well was nothing more then rotten sin! This story is about people telling lies so long that they begin to believe them as truth when it isn't truth at all, but a brainwashed mind! The workers are worshipped by those who are "less" under their guideance and the workers are incited with the thought that they are the only ones with the right way of salvation and only they have the power to give such to anyone that all other churches are "false" churches and all the false churches ministers are false prophets and all that are members of them are on their way to hell in a handbucket! ALL of this simply because the Living Witness doctrine was so fervently embraced by the founders of the religion!
How terrible that must have been for all of you.
I would have just as soon not gone to see the old feller at the age of 43, but my husband and sister both said I needed to do that or I would regret it the rest of my life. I don't think I would have...he purposely kicked me out as his daughter and I knew it, so I'd got used to that idea...when I was very young prepubescent in fact, I would have like to had my dad close by...but again I had an experience that told me that he didn't want me. My sister had gone to see him a couple of times before and she got us to writing to dad and his 3rd wife,e sp. at Christmas time...sent them pictures, etc So thank you for the nice thoughts. It's a shame what selfish people do to one another, eh? It wasn't so terrible for me, but it ruined my brother as he wa right at 9 y/o when kids at that age begin to understand what finality means, etc He has never got over Dad loudly declaring he wasn't his son and he knew well he wasn't....he never looked too close in the mirror for my brother is nearly his spitting image except my brother is just a lot larger man! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 15:03:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 15:03:04 GMT -5
If the ONLY reason they kicked Chau out of the work because he was trying to help solving/selling his brother's house in Saigon... Then why Darrel T. came up the 80,000 dollars price for the house. He was involved in solving/selling the house too.
Chau and Hoa had a wonderful testimonies among the friends and workers in VN for more than 50 years, so they were look up with great respect, getting advice from them even AFTER the new admin. took after the yr. 2000. The VN friends and many workers still looked to Chau and Hoa as their leaders/overseers because they had done a great work for 50 yrs. It would have taken the VN friends awhile to adapt, to look up, and trust the new overseer with all the changes. The new overseer didn't like that! so he had to come up with a plan to take care of that problem, whatever he did, it backfired on him. You have to earn people respect with sincere spirit, and by showing it, like Chau and Hoa had done for 50 yrs. Go, slowly with the changes! if it done too fast then the results can be VERY bad.
Jesus said To be the TOP dog! you must become a servant to ALL like He was to his disciples... He served others, putting others first than his own will, unselfish love, he even laid down his own life for them.
They should write a sincere letter of apology to Chau, Hoa, Minh Thanh family, and 100 friends for standing up for truth.... first step of healing... and welcome them back with open arms if they want to return to the fellowship. I would be very interested in hearing Darrel's side of the story on this. To summarize Minh Thanh's story: It was alleged that Chau owned a house which is against worker tradition. The truth is that the house was owned by Chau's brother in the US who allowed Chau free use of the house for friends and workers passing through in Vietnam. Darrel is alleged to know that Chau didn't own the house but made that claim anyway and ordered the sale of the house, preferably to one of the local friends, which it eventually did sell. So far, all we know is that from the Western point of view, Chau wrongfully owned a house and he banished from the country for that reason only. Perhaps more allegations will surface. One possibility is that the Westerners were not pleased that the church was registered in VN, that Chau was the head of that church, and the house was the address for the church.....even though it is required by law to register the church. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 16:04:26 GMT -5
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 21, 2013 16:04:26 GMT -5
When you believe in a single almighty being you will find that there is absolutely no end to the need for apologetics of any imaginable number of stripes. The more you learn about it, monotheism has to be the master of confusion. There's only confusion if a person doesn't believe in that paranormal! Baloney. You don't find atheists involving themselves in intra-denominational wars. Does it matter to atheists whether there was a Trinity of a pack of Pagan gods? |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 16:59:45 GMT -5
Post by snow on Dec 21, 2013 16:59:45 GMT -5
So this wasn't the way it was from the beginning then. I certainly do agree that it could have been a slow, insidious thing that finally became believed. We humans do have that ability to fool ourselves. Makes sense that it happened like that if it wasn't there from the beginning. Was both your parents professing STR? That was sad that he felt he had to disown some of his children. No they weren't professing...my mother was born the same year that my grandparents professed, she was the last child of a very large family. My dad knew nothing about the fellowship until one year my mother met her sister at the Denver conv. Dad was so impressed that he decided he might want to get involved....well, as it were 2 sister workers came to our home to converse with them and when dad knew it was sister workers as ministers he quickly tossed them out of his home and told them to never darken the door again. After that there was a lot of animosity toward my mother because she refused to go to church with dad's parents and thus they found out that she believed in women preachers....all of that was one of the things that eroded their marriage! Mom professed many years later about 3 and half years before she died! I believe that William Irvine had a very big ego because he'd been a coal mine supervisor and he then was a superintendent for the Faith Mission or something of that ilk and though it is said by the beginning workers that WI didn't want the top job but he sure took it...I feel he knew that he should act humble in order to be more sure of getting it. He relished his top position. I see. So you weren't B&R then? In any case, it's sad that you had to go through all that with your father. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 17:07:20 GMT -5
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 21, 2013 17:07:20 GMT -5
Its not your disagreement with my truths that's wrong but the truth. For instance Paul didn't say that it was okay to lie in the way you insinuated in order to gain a convert. Your eccentricity seems most closely related to atheism. I've been called much worse. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 17:11:01 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 17:11:01 GMT -5
Its not your disagreement with my truths that's wrong but the truth. For instance Paul didn't say that it was okay to lie in the way you insinuated in order to gain a convert. Your eccentricity seems most closely related to atheism. I've been called much worse. The worst insult is to be ignored and called nothing at all!  |
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 21, 2013 17:16:10 GMT -5
I've been called much worse. The worst insult is to be ignored and called nothing at all! I've been known to wake them up and make them think of some more names for me.  |
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Dec 21, 2013 19:07:45 GMT -5
Minh Thanh, During the golden years, was Mr.Hoa the main person whom the friends and workers went to for advice? What about Mr.Bau? What was his role among the friends? Did people come to him for advice? Did he make many decisions regarding the meetings? We all went to uncle Châu& Hoa for any advice, even Mr Bau (my father) himself went to asked the workers first. My father (Mr Bau) didn't make any decisions regarding to the meetings !... If he saw any thing wrong, he went to workers and talked with them, in the leading of The Spirit of God they easily found out how to do or solve any problems. We have seen many times local workers solved the problem between friends very smoothly, with soft advice, brought the love and the unity back among friends immediately... My father had respected among the friends, because he loved God's Way, loved workers and friends. He was using his time to visit friends here and there on his motorbike with my Mom behind. Sharing with friends the news and the riches that he knew in God Way. My father connected with workers very closely, and respected the offer of their life to the work. Workers also told him where they went and how the works going on through the visiting of workers . By sharing like this all the friends knew what were happening... how many professing souls, and the hard experience our friends met... then helping, visiting, and praying for friends. So friends loved them so much and waiting for their visiting too... (Not only my parents, but also with others friends, we all cooperated with workers in visiting friends... That was the way how God's work doing in VN through years.) Recently, even uncle Châu was out of the work. There was a family in Darrel's side, it was very helpful to Darrel... But when their only son was being wrong, they invited uncle Chau to their home, in order to giving their son some advice... (Although Darrel came and stayed with them very often.) |
|
|
|
Post by lazarus66 on Dec 21, 2013 19:44:17 GMT -5
Lee, even in the harshest times of Communism in Russia, everyone had a right to have their own opinion. If you liked your freedom, you usually did not express it out loud.
In meetings it is very much the same. You have the right to your opinion and think what you choose. If you want to remain having the privileges to "take part" in prayer, testimony, and partaking of the emblems, you better not express your opinion if it is out of line with the worker's thinking.
If you think your overseer is a bag of wind and liar and is cheating people and doing all sorts of things, that are not right, "In your opinion" then you should keep it to your self.
Kind of odd, but I have heard Communism talked about in a negative way in meetings, and how we had been made free in Christ, but then that has it's limits too, doesn't it?
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 21, 2013 20:39:56 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 21, 2013 20:39:56 GMT -5
Its not your disagreement with my truths that's wrong but the truth. For instance Paul didn't say that it was okay to lie in the way you insinuated in order to gain a convert. Your eccentricity seems most closely related to atheism.
Of all people to claim that anyone makes an "ideological pogrom against" someone's belief, I can't think of anyone who does a nastier a job than you do with your comments about atheists!
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 22, 2013 0:22:14 GMT -5
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 22, 2013 0:22:14 GMT -5
Lee, even in the harshest times of Communism in Russia, everyone had a right to have their own opinion. If you liked your freedom, you usually did not express it out loud. In meetings it is very much the same. You have the right to your opinion and think what you choose. If you want to remain having the privileges to "take part" in prayer, testimony, and partaking of the emblems, you better not express your opinion if it is out of line with the worker's thinking. If you think your overseer is a bag of wind and liar and is cheating people and doing all sorts of things, that are not right, "In your opinion" then you should keep it to your self. Kind of odd, but I have heard Communism talked about in a negative way in meetings, and how we had been made free in Christ, but then that has it's limits too, doesn't it? The Communist government in Cuba told some Canadian workers who were going there to visit the friends that they were "more Communist than the Communist party". They were right. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 22, 2013 1:29:35 GMT -5
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 22, 2013 1:29:35 GMT -5
Don't worry, Lee. I'm probably quite eccentric. One of these times you will understand me and ... my goodness, I will begin to worry. Its not your eccentricity that bothers me but your ideological pogrom against Christians and your willingness to take liberties with the truth, and that isn't fit for a teacher.
Of all people to claim that anyone makes an "ideological pogrom against" someone's belief, I can't think of anyone who does a nastier a job than you do with your comments about atheists!
|
|
