Vietnam

[findingtruth]

Dec 14, 2013 5:13:02 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Thank you for all sharing here, I shed tears to read your comfort & understanding our situation.

We all had waited for a long time, talked and sent many letters to workers. We did hope that who was doing wrong, would make it right as Jesus had taught...

It was real that they never accepted their wrong. Two years later, after doing everything without any results. We had to said to Lyle that "We can't walk in double lines. (it means we can't progress).”

As Davit in Psalms 6:6 I am weary with my groaning; Every night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears.

More than a year, we didn’t know how to do, even we disagreed with many things they had done, but I felt regret for losing the very nice fellowship among us. We did know many of our friends still in their fellowship having the same regret as me, and dare not get out. It was the time we learnt Wed bible in Revelation 21. I began being afraid.

Revelation 21:27 and there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie:

If a lie couldn’t enter the Kingdom of God, how can they lead me in? From that time I felt my need stronger, I read Bible more, and more in my prayer, too. It was wonderful that through the Bible God showed me clearly how to serve him. Learning and doing as Jesus taught I gained the joy, happy with the leading of Spirit of God. His yoke really easy & his burden really light. "Come take my yoke upon you. My yoke is easy and my burden is light."

Answering to our letters, there is one warning to us(Dale S's letter) that If we don’t obey Lyle’s rule upon us, we will lost the wonderful fellowship throughout the world.

After reading all the messages and posts, my husband said… “Now God gives us the real wonderful fellowship, with love, comfort, and understanding…throughout the world”.

Many thanks

Xuân Hoàn & Minh Thanh

MT, I've been reading this thread with interest. Many of us who chose to leave the fellowship did so because we saw clear deviation from the simple message of Christ. I don't believe Jesus taught his followers to build a system but instead to build a family bonded together in pure love, not only for a select few but for ALL others. I'll add more to my thoughts when I can.

[snow]

Dec 14, 2013 10:20:19 GMT -5 sharingtheriches said:

Dec 14, 2013 0:00:19 GMT -5 snow said:

That's pretty sad STR. What are they so afraid of? Why do they feel like they have to micromanage all their members?

Snow it is like it is commonly found among rulers that deal secretly or always seeking to keep themselves and what they really are and do in the dark. And I think these rulers know full well, that there is a great percentage of truth in that the light will show all the dirty fruits of their efforts to stay behind the cracs and crevices of human nature. I think money may well play into that...for the bible says the love of money is the root of ALL evil. We can't prove that this is actual facts just yet...but when human nature gets into this dictator-like mode with fellow mankind, then we can see that soon the love of money is what motivated that dictatorship!

I think also when people have only fruits of the dark that there is certainly a desire to keep things going their own direction so they are not brought into responsibility and accountability!

Well I think that if the friends that are supporting Lyle and the other workers that are dividing the country in two, finally come to their senses and not support Lyle, then the old fellowship can have a chance. The reason for the split isn't so much the workers, it's the friends that are allowing these workers to split their fellowship by following and supporting Lyle and others that do Lyle's bidding. People always have the choice of whether or not they will follow these men. So the responsibility is also on those people for causing the split in VN

[snow]

Dec 14, 2013 11:36:45 GMT -5 Sylvestra said:

Dec 14, 2013 0:00:19 GMT -5 snow said:

That's pretty sad STR. What are they so afraid of? Why do they feel like they have to micromanage all their members?

My first guess is that they no longer trust God to manage this part of HIS people, who happen to be "their members"!  To me, this is an indication of people who have tried to usurp Holy Spirit's  leading, and the friction comes from people who recognize it.....people who truly know how it feels to be guided by HS and resist the usurpers!

For those of you in VN, you are getting a picture of how much of the rest of the friends in the world are dictated to by the workers because all of your questions to the workers are the questions of many of them also!!!!   It has been your blessing to know differently than what the Canadian workers are telling you and you have been guided by Holy Spirit.  The friends in the United States, Canada, etc. are expected by the workers to live by those confusing rules the Canadian workers are trying to force you into....and without questioning them.  Quite a few are excommunicated for their questioning.    Many I know simply ignore the workers and go about letting Holy Spirit guide them, because they are afraid to leave the meetings because they've been taught that leaving means they will go to hell AND it is too hard to leave because of what their family and the friends will say about them.  Isn't that a sad thing to have to say?

Not being in fellowship with the workers church does not make anyone go to hell!!  It only means leaving the workers church and continuing in fellowship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit.  This is a church that was created just over 100 years ago, and I'd like to know what happened to all the souls who had fellowship with God before they showed up?  Are they in hell?  NO!   It is just ridiculous to think that the workers hold the "keys to the kingdom" and that their church IS the WAY, the DOOR, the TRUTH (or whatever else they like to call themselves!) when those are the name dedicated to JESUS and it is our relationship with JESUS we are after.  It is Jesus blood sacrificed on the cross that saves us, not what church we fellowship with.

Keep your courage and never let go of Jesus!

I see the false teachings of hell to be abuse. Emotional, Spiritual, take your pick. Or both.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2013 12:09:12 GMT -5 snow said:

Dec 14, 2013 10:20:19 GMT -5 sharingtheriches said:

Snow it is like it is commonly found among rulers that deal secretly or always seeking to keep themselves and what they really are and do in the dark. And I think these rulers know full well, that there is a great percentage of truth in that the light will show all the dirty fruits of their efforts to stay behind the cracs and crevices of human nature. I think money may well play into that...for the bible says the love of money is the root of ALL evil. We can't prove that this is actual facts just yet...but when human nature gets into this dictator-like mode with fellow mankind, then we can see that soon the love of money is what motivated that dictatorship!

I think also when people have only fruits of the dark that there is certainly a desire to keep things going their own direction so they are not brought into responsibility and accountability!

Well I think that if the friends that are supporting Lyle and the other workers that are dividing the country in two, finally come to their senses and not support Lyle, then the old fellowship can have a chance. The reason for the split isn't so much the workers, it's the friends that are allowing these workers to split their fellowship by following and supporting Lyle and others that do Lyle's bidding. People always have the choice of whether or not they will follow these men. So the responsibility is also on those people for causing the split in VN

The problem isn't that simple. People are supporting Lyle et al because they agree with him, Darrel, Morris, DaleS etc. There are very few things on MT's list that the friends wouldn't agree with. As I mentioned in another post, most people will disagree with the edict to not study the bible as a family together, but I would fully expect that by now that Darrel is claiming that he was misunderstood on that. Otherwise, most friends and workers will see the split as justified by the intransigence of the Golden Friends. That's why this isn't going to get fixed anytime soon, if ever.

[fixit]

Dec 14, 2013 12:16:43 GMT -5 @clearday said:

People are supporting Lyle et al because they agree with him, Darrel, Morris, DaleS etc. There are very few things on MT's list that the friends wouldn't agree with. As I mentioned in another post, most people will disagree with the edict to not study the bible as a family together, but I would fully expect that by now that Darrel is claiming that he was misunderstood on that. Otherwise, most friends and workers will see the split as justified by the intransigence of the Golden Friends. That's why this isn't going to get fixed anytime soon, if ever.

In places where domineering workers, with the support of sycophantic domineering elders, have done their work there has been a large falling away of folks who would disagree with MT's list.

However, in other places where more liberal and loving conditions have prevailed, I think there would be many who would disagree with the things on MT's list.

[fixit]

Dec 14, 2013 11:36:45 GMT -5 Sylvestra said:

Many I know simply ignore the workers and go about letting Holy Spirit guide them, because they are afraid to leave the meetings because they've been taught that leaving means they will go to hell AND it is too hard to leave because of what their family and the friends will say about them.  Isn't that a sad thing to have to say?

There are folks who stay for reasons that have nothing to do with the fear of hell or what friends and family will say about them.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2013 15:47:48 GMT -5 fixit said:

Dec 14, 2013 12:16:43 GMT -5 @clearday said:

People are supporting Lyle et al because they agree with him, Darrel, Morris, DaleS etc. There are very few things on MT's list that the friends wouldn't agree with. As I mentioned in another post, most people will disagree with the edict to not study the bible as a family together, but I would fully expect that by now that Darrel is claiming that he was misunderstood on that. Otherwise, most friends and workers will see the split as justified by the intransigence of the Golden Friends. That's why this isn't going to get fixed anytime soon, if ever.

In places where domineering workers, with the support of sycophantic domineering elders, have done their work there has been a large falling away of folks who would disagree with MT's list.

However, in other places where more liberal and loving conditions have prevailed, I think there would be many who would disagree with the things on MT's list.

There are definitely some friends who would disagree with that list. However, even in more liberal areas, I doubt there would be any more than a muted minority.

In the West, the big trump card is always played when there is disagreement with the workers: "obey the workers because they are closer to God than you". That pretty much stops the discussion.

[Sylvestra]

Dec 14, 2013 15:51:14 GMT -5 fixit said:

Dec 14, 2013 11:36:45 GMT -5 Sylvestra said:

Many I know simply ignore the workers and go about letting Holy Spirit guide them, because they are afraid to leave the meetings because they've been taught that leaving means they will go to hell AND it is too hard to leave because of what their family and the friends will say about them.  Isn't that a sad thing to have to say?

There are folks who stay for reasons that have nothing to do with the fear of hell or what friends and family will say about them.

Yes, come-to-think-of-it, there are other reasons people stay in the meetings and that list may be long.   However, these are the two reasons that came to my mind for people who really would like to leave, but don't/can't.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2013 16:34:21 GMT -5 Sylvestra said:

Dec 14, 2013 15:51:14 GMT -5 fixit said:

There are folks who stay for reasons that have nothing to do with the fear of hell or what friends and family will say about them.

Yes, come-to-think-of-it, there are other reasons people stay in the meetings and that list may be long.   However, these are the two reasons that came to my mind for people who really would like to leave, but don't/can't.

You probably have the two most common reasons. To refine the one about friends and family, what they fear is losing the closeness and acceptance of the people they love. Those people will most likely still love them, but it will be much different. In some cases, there will be actual rejection. That's not easy for anyone, especially when it is family.


Some people stay because they can see the possibilities of salvaging something good of it all, even seeing it become a robustly helpful Christian group. It's a vision and hope thing.

[snow]

Dec 14, 2013 12:16:43 GMT -5 @clearday said:

Dec 14, 2013 12:09:12 GMT -5 snow said:

Well I think that if the friends that are supporting Lyle and the other workers that are dividing the country in two, finally come to their senses and not support Lyle, then the old fellowship can have a chance. The reason for the split isn't so much the workers, it's the friends that are allowing these workers to split their fellowship by following and supporting Lyle and others that do Lyle's bidding. People always have the choice of whether or not they will follow these men. So the responsibility is also on those people for causing the split in VN

The problem isn't that simple. People are supporting Lyle et al because they agree with him, Darrel, Morris, DaleS etc. There are very few things on MT's list that the friends wouldn't agree with. As I mentioned in another post, most people will disagree with the edict to not study the bible as a family together, but I would fully expect that by now that Darrel is claiming that he was misunderstood on that. Otherwise, most friends and workers will see the split as justified by the intransigence of the Golden Friends. That's why this isn't going to get fixed anytime soon, if ever.

So what are you saying? That she is making a lot of ripples on the workers pond for no good reason?

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2013 18:07:55 GMT -5 snow said:

Dec 14, 2013 12:16:43 GMT -5 @clearday said:

The problem isn't that simple. People are supporting Lyle et al because they agree with him, Darrel, Morris, DaleS etc. There are very few things on MT's list that the friends wouldn't agree with. As I mentioned in another post, most people will disagree with the edict to not study the bible as a family together, but I would fully expect that by now that Darrel is claiming that he was misunderstood on that. Otherwise, most friends and workers will see the split as justified by the intransigence of the Golden Friends. That's why this isn't going to get fixed anytime soon, if ever.

So what are you saying? That she is making a lot of ripples on the workers pond for no good reason?

The pond is frozen, there are few ripples except around the unfrozen outside edges.

[snow]

Dec 14, 2013 18:15:58 GMT -5 @clearday said:

Dec 14, 2013 18:07:55 GMT -5 snow said:

So what are you saying? That she is making a lot of ripples on the workers pond for no good reason?

The pond is frozen, there are few ripples except around the unfrozen outside edges.

Okay. Then I hope there is a thaw and the lake becomes serene for both sides of this problem. I still can't help but think if the VN friends were left to their own devices and the native workers all this would 1. never have happened, and 2. be resolved fairly quickly.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2013 19:02:41 GMT -5 snow said:

Dec 14, 2013 18:15:58 GMT -5 @clearday said:

The pond is frozen, there are few ripples except around the unfrozen outside edges.

Okay. Then I hope there is a thaw and the lake becomes serene for both sides of this problem. I still can't help but think if the VN friends were left to their own devices and the native workers all this would 1. never have happened, and 2. be resolved fairly quickly.

Absolutely true.

If not for the introduction of the Canadian overseers who were active in "correcting" the VN friends, the work there would be flourishing today. Now, it is unlikely to ever recover and many people have lost their "golden times". It is easy to perceive from the writings of the golden friends that those days and experiences were a joyful part of their lives, and now it is gone.

[gecko45]

Looking over that list of changes that the foreign workers tried to bring about I fail to see any that are so different that it caused the results we see.

The reproach concerning reading together as a family and taking notes in meetings seems very odd. Many of the others seem to be far to be just minor things (wedding and funeral customs). There is no broad worldwide conformity within "Truth" on these things. Local customs dictate what people do in these areas.


The only reason I can see why the attempted implementation of these new rules caused such division is that the foreigners gave the orders in a very poor spirit. The desire to have uniformity in the "Truth" is understandable but if delivered in a condescending and imperialistic manner it will only lead to hard feelings.

Somehow I dont think Uncle Fred or someone like Willie Jamison would have gone about it in the same way. In the current system the Workers are always right, this only becomes more entrenched as time goes on and seniority increases. Once a brother gets to the overseer position their word is virtuallyl final. We have seen how difficult it is to get an overseer removed for illegal moral activities, there is no way that someone as "connected" as LS will admit wrong.

The natives had the audacity to question and resist what the foreigners ordered them to do. (Something that the Vietnamese have been doing for millennia). The foreign imperialists are not used to being questioned and felt thier final authority was slipping.

[jondough]

I think most Friends would be pretty appalled if they had enough courage to read MT's entire story.

its not so much that what the Foreign workers were asking them to do, but mainly because they weren't necessary. "Conformity" on those things are not necessary. In fact, in the West, we stand while we give testimony, in the Midwest they sit. So what. Does it matter? Its the same with most all the other things. Sometimes I cross my legs while waiting for meeting to start, others don't....give me a break...to me, those un-weightier things are about that ridiculous when forcing them on others.

I have no doubt that most friends would be appalled if they knew the facts on how they went about these things, and how it split the people into 1/3 - 2/3s.

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2013 5:13:02 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Minh Thanh:

I have information from the workers that there are many golden friends who have come back to the workers. Some who were particularly unhappy have apologized and came back.

Can you tell us how many have gone back?

[Scott Ross]

I have information from the workers that there are many golden friends who have come back to the workers. Some who were particularly unhappy have apologized and came back.

What does it mean to 'come back to the workers'?

[Deleted]

Dec 15, 2013 0:21:30 GMT -5 Scott Ross said:

I have information from the workers that there are many golden friends who have come back to the workers. Some who were particularly unhappy have apologized and came back.

What does it mean to 'come back to the workers'?

Come back to the workers, apologized (in some cases) and asked to rejoin the meetings which remain under the worker's control and are now in those meetings.

[lazarus66]

I had to really laugh when I read about "loaning money" and then them bringing up the fact that the workers ride nice "machines" to get around.

I think that if I were able to write to the workers (they don't read my letters as I am a heathen) I would tell them that if they want money, "get a job" and if they need transportation, God provided them with the same mode of transportation he gave Jesus. Two legs.

My sister branded me a heathen, so when I write about the money she stole, I get back from good old "uncle" Sid (Holt), "We don't get involved in matters like that". Seems he was either a liar or telling me "when our workers rip people off and they are heathens, we don't get involved."

These overbearing, crooked, conniving workers are going to be in heaven?

[fixit]

Dec 14, 2013 20:48:39 GMT -5 gecko45 said:

The reproach concerning reading together as a family and taking notes in meetings seems very odd. Many of the others seem to be far to be just minor things (wedding and funeral customs).

Yes, minor things on the face of it.

Here's the major thing: obedience and control.

The Vietnamese attitude to the foreign workers is expected to be: "thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever".

[Deleted]

Dec 15, 2013 0:41:43 GMT -5 fixit said:

Dec 14, 2013 20:48:39 GMT -5 gecko45 said:

The reproach concerning reading together as a family and taking notes in meetings seems very odd. Many of the others seem to be far to be just minor things (wedding and funeral customs).

Yes, minor things on the face of it.

Here's the major thing: obedience and control.

The Vietnamese attitude to the foreign workers is expected to be: "thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever".

The workers bungled the changes by trying to force their power on people. That is very difficult to accomplish even in "the world" today. If you want to make changes, you have to get people to buy in and get on board first, you can't just ram it down people's throats and expect everything to go smooth from there.

[minhthanh]

Dec 15, 2013 0:19:15 GMT -5 @clearday said:

Dec 14, 2013 5:13:02 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Minh Thanh:

I have information from the workers that there are many golden friends who have come back to the workers. Some who were particularly unhappy have apologized and came back.

Can you tell us how many have gone back?

Yes, there are some...

to rejoin the meetings which remain under the worker's control and are now in those meetings.



Almost of them obeyed Uncle Châu advice just because of their love to uncle Châu.

I have had written a long story about them here, but I was afraid to post... I have erased it.

The facts were… sadly to say… I don't believe they have satisfied with their choice.



One man is brother of two sister workers, now he is still using very bad words when he speaks about Lyle, Darrel and some elders too !...



Recently, one lady returned with the message sent to golden friends from her mobile phone "I don't want to make anh Chau sad and cry, it may cause him being blind... "  Uncle Châu being ill with his eyes.

After her returning to their fellowship, uncle Chau forward her apology letter sent to him to many friends, except me . (It was like a demanded letter. Maybe he was afraid of my reaction with the untrue things in her letter !...).
Somehow friends FW it to me I have read it.

This lady is my relative too, one year older than me, unmarried !
We studied the same University and worked in the same company some time. (I had met a little trouble in working with her, because in order of relationship, she is my aunt, but in working she had reported her works to me.) I did know her, and understood her manner too...

I'm afraid to put her name here, who knew her may rock with laughter because of her anxious... to uncle Châu.

Some others obeyed uncle Châu advice because he said “This is The True Way… God will be sad seeing the separate among the friends…if you have the fellowship with Hoa, not with other workers and friends”

Uncle Chau had sent a letter to friends, with an advice from a worker “Let obey, even things happening seem not right…”

Reading his letter, I feel terrible to remember in Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; But the end thereof are the ways of death.

I had replied to him “Before God just only right or wrong, if anything seems not right, I would like to have an explaining to prove… It’s right, then I will obey.”

I haven’t had any answer from him !... 



I’m going to tell you the story “Uncle Châu has a house…”

The main point made use of it to chase uncle Châu out. Made overseer & workers to be a liar to God' people.

[trungnguyen2006]

As may Mom going to post the "story of the house" is now lead you to the centre of the issue. This untrue reason to chase uncle Chau out of the work and cause many many things happen. Through this event, I have a clear picture about these workersworkers and what are their purposes. I have to wait until the story of may Mom to disclose and add in some detail.

[holdmyhand]

Dec 15, 2013 4:11:26 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Some others obeyed uncle Châu advice because he said “This is The True Way… God will be sad seeing the separate among the friends…if you have the fellowship with Hoa, not with other workers and friends”

Uncle Chau had sent a letter to friends, with an advice from a worker “Let obey, even things happening seem not right…”

Reading his letter, I feel terrible to remember in Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; But the end thereof are the ways of death.

I had replied to him “Before God just only right or wrong, if anything seems not right, I would like to have an explaining to prove… It’s right, then I will obey.”

I haven’t had any answer from him !... 



I’m going to tell you the story “Uncle Châu has a house…”

The main point made use of it to chase uncle Châu out. Made overseer & workers to be a liar to God' people.

When giving his testimony in Australia, Uncle Chau mentioned a couple of times the need to “obey them that have rule over you”

He also appears to have no knowledge of the Irvine beginnings, he said the reason he left the protestant church was because it was the year of jubilee and he read in a magazine at the time, the history of the formation of the protestant church and because it was founded by man he realised it was wrong and left it to follow the workers



Read here article about obeying             www.wickedshepherds.com/obeythem.html

[minhthanh]

Dec 15, 2013 6:06:26 GMT -5 holdmyhand said:

Dec 15, 2013 4:11:26 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

When giving his testimony in Australia, Uncle Chau mentioned a couple of times the need to “obey them that have rule over you”

He also appears to have no knowledge of the Irvine beginnings, he said the reason he left the protestant church was because it was the year of jubilee and he read in a magazine at the time, the history of the formation of the protestant church and because it was founded by man he realised it was wrong and left it to follow the workers



Read here article about obeying             www.wickedshepherds.com/obeythem.html

On my opinion I don't believe that uncle Châu didn't read about the beginning of 2x2, just only he doesn't accept this church was man made. He has advised friends not read on the internet. Reading on internet is easy to lost the soul !... He doesn't believe the 2x2 was founded by Irvine.

[Deleted]

Dec 15, 2013 4:11:26 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Dec 15, 2013 0:19:15 GMT -5 @clearday said:

Minh Thanh:

I have information from the workers that there are many golden friends who have come back to the workers. Some who were particularly unhappy have apologized and came back.

Can you tell us how many have gone back?

Yes, there are some...

to rejoin the meetings which remain under the worker's control and are now in those meetings.



Almost of them obeyed Uncle Châu advice just because of their love to uncle Châu.

I have had written a long story about them here, but I was afraid to post... I have erased it.

The facts were… sadly to say… I don't believe they have satisfied with their choice.



One man is brother of two sister workers, now he is still using very bad words when he speaks about Lyle, Darrel and some elders too !...



Recently, one lady returned with the message sent to golden friends from her mobile phone "I don't want to make anh Chau sad and cry, it may cause him being blind... "  Uncle Châu being ill with his eyes.

After her returning to their fellowship, uncle Chau forward her apology letter sent to him to many friends, except me . (It was like a demanded letter. Maybe he was afraid of my reaction with the untrue things in her letter !...).
Somehow friends FW it to me I have read it.

This lady is my relative too, one year older than me, unmarried !
We studied the same University and worked in the same company some time. (I had met a little trouble in working with her, because in order of relationship, she is my aunt, but in working she had reported her works to me.) I did know her, and understood her manner too...

I'm afraid to put her name here, who knew her may rock with laughter because of her anxious... to uncle Châu.

Some others obeyed uncle Châu advice because he said “This is The True Way… God will be sad seeing the separate among the friends…if you have the fellowship with Hoa, not with other workers and friends”

Uncle Chau had sent a letter to friends, with an advice from a worker “Let obey, even things happening seem not right…”

Reading his letter, I feel terrible to remember in Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; But the end thereof are the ways of death.

I had replied to him “Before God just only right or wrong, if anything seems not right, I would like to have an explaining to prove… It’s right, then I will obey.”

I haven’t had any answer from him !... 


I’m going to tell you the story “Uncle Châu has a house…”

The main point made use of it to chase uncle Châu out. Made overseer & workers to be a liar to God' people.

Thank you Minh Thanh.

I would like to get an overall picture of the movements people are making. Approximately how many do you know who went back to the meetings? Of those, how many do you know made apologies?

We look forward to hearing of the accusations made against Chau.

[sharingtheriches]

Dec 14, 2013 19:58:05 GMT -5 @clearday said:

Dec 14, 2013 19:02:41 GMT -5 snow said:

Okay. Then I hope there is a thaw and the lake becomes serene for both sides of this problem. I still can't help but think if the VN friends were left to their own devices and the native workers all this would 1. never have happened, and 2. be resolved fairly quickly.

Absolutely true.

If not for the introduction of the Canadian overseers who were active in "correcting" the VN friends, the work there would be flourishing today. Now, it is unlikely to ever recover and many people have lost their "golden times". It is easy to perceive from the writings of the golden friends that those days and experiences were a joyful part of their lives, and now it is gone.

There were workers of some time ago perhaps that had to learn this lesson that the Canadian workers need to learn and that is the workers should not expect to go into a foreign country like Vietnam where the native dwellers have different customs and very different viewpoints on most of the things that life contains! These Canadian workers seem to me, they are trying to make the VN friends behave like the US and Canadian friends have all acted when first professing...which was the new converts worked overtime to incorporate the things the workers said they must do or be like.


I understand from some of the Vietnamese refugees that came here locally and have settled here locally, that there are certain thought processes they hold to when the US for the most part, know very little about.....One example is the "love" for the elderly of their families.....and how their national religion had taught them to behave toward one another and also how their native way of life comes into making the VN very industrious and usually very low in lusts for things in their world.....I've been shocked at what some of the VN refugees were able to do when they acquired their first US home! Neat as a pin, and everything seemed to me that it spoke of money......but yet these nice folks usually have little more then the national wage and hour pay.....How can they afford to buy such things? It all relates to their penchant for hard work and great morals between themselves! And yes, I'm sure there are lusts of the flesh within them here and there but it seems that IF they remain true to their raising that such things are little known about within the group of VN refugees. I think the men who have problems that way knew they might as well get out of their group and seek to marry someone not a VN!

So all of this lifestyle would affect how the individual Vietnamese responds to the 2x2 gospel/workers, etc And I'm sure that few Canadian and/or American workers would have NO idea how to "change" some of their societal behaviours....and why should they? The VN people have very high morals or at least those I've had anything to do with and they come way up on the commandment to love one another as Jesus has loved us! But some bigheaded worker wants to come to the country and turn these folks into being like the friends that are subservient and worshipful to them in their own countries.....this still could be done, but it would have to come the direction as the VN learned from their predecessors!

It never works to go in amongst a group of people trying to push them here and there....it will almost always backfire!

[sharingtheriches]

Dec 15, 2013 0:36:25 GMT -5 lazarus66 said:

I had to really laugh when I read about "loaning money" and then them bringing up the fact that the workers ride nice "machined" to get around.

I think that if I were able to write to the workers (they don't read my letters as I am a heathen) I would tell them that if they want money, "get a job" and if they need transportation, God provided them with the same mode of transportation he gave Jesus. Two legs.

My sister branded me a heathen, so when I write about the money she stole, I get back from good old "uncle" Sid (Holt), "We don't get involved in matters like that". Seems he was either a liar or telling me "when our workers rip people off and they are heathens, we don't get involved."

These overbearing, crooked, conniving workers are going to be in heaven?

This reminded me of the Psalmist who said that he was so discouraged because of the evil having the success over what others have...he said his feet had nigh well had slipped! Then he went on to describe some of those things that he found "unfair" in the success of those who worked evil thing, etc....then the Psalmist finally says

"Untill I went into God's sanctuary....then their portion or their ending was made clear to me...." something of that ilk......

It does NOT seem fair that NOW some of the golden friends have turned back and purposefully came under the workers who had so abused them....THIS is exactly what some of these workers expect and more often then not get.....they are given undue power when people bend down before those who are being unfair and abusive to start with!

But as the Psalmist said, he finally understood what God had in store for those who were evil and having so much success on the backs of those who stoop before them!