|
|
Vietnam
Dec 7, 2013 19:41:45 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Dec 7, 2013 19:41:45 GMT -5
MT: Just making sure I am understanding what you wrote correctly. Who is "them" in your statement above? Sorry because of my poor English !... "Them" are our Di Linh friendsRE: the person you refer to as "he" in the above statement. Are you are writing about Chau or Darrell? "he" here is Mr Mãnh, the elder at Di Linh. Couldn't return the same day, so he passed the night in Saigon.
Who had met him should agree with me that "He is an elder as if a worker"Who is "him" that you gave evidence to read? Who were all the workers present in the Elders meeting? Are these the same meetings? "him" here is Mr Mãnh too... Yes, that the elders meeting, with all workers and 3 visitors below...I am uncertain because of something your father wrote: Right after the big gathering with overseers (from some other countries), all the workers in the country (except uncle Châu), and all the elders from many provinces and areas...came together. They invited 3 other overseers, such as Dale Shultz, Tsutomu Miyata (Overseer of Japan) and Simeon Sarmiento (Philippines/Indonesia) They came for the elder meeting against Chau held in March, 2010, to witness they declare "Chau is not in the work anymore...Almost the friends fell down in pain...They chose many way to deal with workers according to what their feeling MT: This is what I think you are saying. That the Canadian workers were shocked at the friends reaction after they expelled Chau and they didn't quite know what to do. So Morris asked Chau to help settle the situation down and Chau encouraged the friends by phone to accept the foreign workers decisions and to submit to their authority. Then you wrote: Obey uncle Châu advice, but still disliked the way they were treating with our local workers. And that sentence confused me. Are you saying Chau advised the friends to do what he advised even tho you may dislike the way the Canadian workers were treating the local workers? Obey uncle Châu advice, but still disliked the way they were treating with our local workers.Nothing in their reason concerning to the spiritual !...
They don’t let us to ask uncle Châu leading the meeting, even there weren’t any other workers in the meeting. They (Darrel and his staff) considered uncle Châu not worthy as us, lay members only. At that time there are some workers phoned to him ( while uncle Châu stayed at my house) to apologize him for their leading the meeting with the presence of uncle Châu (they knew that uncle Châu worthier to lead the meeting)
PS. We're waiting with baited breath to hear the "lying reason"!  
I understand that you are eager to know what excuse…but at least you grasp the situation in VN first, then you judge correctly…I will disclose that reason and uncle Dale’s letter sent to us more than one year later.
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 7, 2013 20:59:23 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 7, 2013 20:59:23 GMT -5
As there are perhaps more people in different areas who have faced the strictness of the workers and how those workers kept that strictness even when they were not present, and when a friend or younger worker offended that overseer f strictness, they then often are pushed out with rumors and lies that are spread like wildfire within the fellowship........It is a shame when people have to discredit someone else to make themselves look great!
|
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Dec 7, 2013 23:33:50 GMT -5
Recently I received a message from a member asking some questions... I had replied some of these questions like this before...
So today I would like to answer not only for him, but also for those who worry about that...
Because here is the TMB, I just want to tell the truth, I don't want to hide anything relating to me... (Not cover !...)
Minh Thanh
Thank you for your concerns and prayers. I am willing to answer your questions one by one.
+Does Chau know that you are posting on this forum?
--Yes, I sent the link to brother Chau and Hoa. Because all I posted here are true and I want to let them know first, when I have been accepted to be a new member on this board by admin.
I have written to uncle Châu “I don’t want to cover up their wrongs, and don’t play their game…”
+Does he think it is a good idea?
-We don't depend on him to post or not. We have a purpose to let those who concerned know that there isn't anything be concealed and I want them to be more careful of their thinking and behavior lest they foul the name of God and offend others.
As I had post on TMB. He is afraid to contact with “golden friends” now, because he is still under their lead, and afraid of breaking their rules..
So he didn’t send email to us… or express his idea. How can I know his true thinking?
+Do you write and ask him before posting? I know you love and respect him so I do not think you will do anything that he would not want.
-Yes, we do love and respect him but we love and respect God the most. So what I wrote or posted here, I have done in the fear of God. For helping workers and friends to know the real picture and examine themselves not for destroying or killing…
+Shall I send him a copy of all the posts you have made? I have his email so can do that if you think he would like to see them.
-I’ll appreciate if you do it... Not only to uncle Châu but also to Uncle Dale, uncle Lyle, and many workers and friends… who concerns to the problems happening in VN as well. Our purpose here just want you all to see the whole picture and have the true imformation.
That the reason why I don’t hide anything about mine, my true name, my face… for friends over the world can believe what I have posted.
(I wonder who are you? May I have your real name, your email for I can give you more information that I still hide, haven't posted yet... for you to see.)
+I am sorry about the problem there in Vietnam. I hope it will all get resolved and you all united again.
Does Chau know that you are posting on this forum?
I had sent him the links, But I don’t know whether he enters this board or not… You may ask him…
+Do you know that C is an enemy of our fellowship? That she only wants to find every negative thing she can and post it on her website. She wants to write on her website all negative things she can find out about Vietnam.
I dare not say that. The important thing is whether we be honest or crooked.
She should have her responsibility before God with what she does today. God will judge and give His reward or wrath to what we do today.
It’s better no one doing wrong for other people not post negative thing into internet.
+Do you know that C and DJ, and all the people like that, well they have gone back and joined Protestant churches that your father and all the friends in Vietnam left when they found the Truth in Jesus that the workers brought.
I don’t know who or where they are…
But I do know many pastors in Protestant churches have good manner and good example life than these Canadian workers. My two uncles on my mother side are pastors and almost my relatives on my father side still in Protestant Churches. Thery are pastors and Christians, they have had very good life with love and help. I still love and respect these people.
Not only my parents said that they follow this True Way because they see the godly life of the workers. If they see all bad things like this, they never professed. Also my husband and many other friends too.
+Do you think people like this will be able to give you good advice and help?
My purpose is not received help or any advice from man, God has showed to us his help and advice.
+ I notice many of the people who post on the Vietnam thread do not love the Way and Truth of Jesus that God's servants bring, men like Fred Allen, Edwin, Chau etc. Some of the people are even athiests!
As I have said, I don’t mind others thinking or doing…
But in VN, I can see very clearly many Lyle’s staff dislike uncle Châu, and who mention about uncle Fred too….
Are these workers atheists?
+ It is ok for you to communicate with them and tell them all your problems, you will soon come to see and understand that you will get more confused and get no help from them. Most of them despise God's servants.
I think they just despise who is under the name “God’s servant”, but doing against with what God has taught in the Bible.
We don’t ask for their help, but thanks for they give me a chance to speak out the truth.
I am never confused, I had my own choice… to fear and serve God.
All I work here just want to protect the truth for my Holy Father, and His name must be Holy in the earth.
+ But if you earnestly pray to God he will in his own way and time help you!
Oh yea, I’m waiting for that time…
His time is going on… I do trust in Him. Everything I do, I do it for Him. Our mighty GOD.
+ I hope you do not mind me writing to you! I have one good friend (Good friend?), he looked at this professing proboards for some time and he said
"I cannot see anything Godly happening there"
Thank you for your contact, I still wonder who are you?
You are being a Royal Member in this board… !!!
May I post all your questions and my answers in TMB boad for your good friend can understand my work.
If, He "... cannot see anything Godly happening there"
Why he enters in the board. Is he a spy?
Sincerely Yours
Minh Thanh
|
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Dec 8, 2013 0:22:34 GMT -5
It’s better no one doing wrong for other people not post negative thing into internet. Exactly! Its time for system-minded workers and friends to wake up and realize some of their actions are far from the spirit of Christ. If your religious system is producing other than the fruit of the spirit, its time to seriously examine it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 1:22:59 GMT -5
Recently I received a message from a member asking some questions... I had replied some of these questions like this before... So today I would like to answer not only for him, but also for those who worry about that... Because here is the TMB, I just want to tell the truth, I don't want to hide anything relating to me... (Not cover !...) Minh Thanh Thank you for your concerns and prayers. I am willing to answer your questions one by one. +Does Chau know that you are posting on this forum?
--Yes, I sent the link to brother Chau and Hoa. Because all I posted here are true and I want to let them know first, when I have been accepted to be a new member on this board by admin. I have written to uncle Châu “I don’t want to cover up their wrongs, and don’t play their game…” +Does he think it is a good idea?
-We don't depend on him to post or not. We have a purpose to let those who concerned know that there isn't anything be concealed and I want them to be more careful of their thinking and behavior lest they foul the name of God and offend others. As I had post on TMB. He is afraid to contact with “golden friends” now, because he is still under their lead, and afraid of breaking their rules.. So he didn’t send email to us… or express his idea. How can I know his true thinking? +Do you write and ask him before posting? I know you love and respect him so I do not think you will do anything that he would not want.
-Yes, we do love and respect him but we love and respect God the most. So what I wrote or posted here, I have done in the fear of God. For helping workers and friends to know the real picture and examine themselves not for destroying or killing… +Shall I send him a copy of all the posts you have made? I have his email so can do that if you think he would like to see them.
-I’ll appreciate if you do it... Not only to uncle Châu but also to Uncle Dale, uncle Lyle, and many workers and friends… who concerns to the problems happening in VN as well. Our purpose here just want you all to see the whole picture and have the true imformation. That the reason why I don’t hide anything about mine, my true name, my face… for friends over the world can believe what I have posted. (I wonder who are you? May I have your real name, your email for I can give you more information that I still hide, haven't posted yet... for you to see.) +I am sorry about the problem there in Vietnam. I hope it will all get resolved and you all united again.Does Chau know that you are posting on this forum? I had sent him the links, But I don’t know whether he enters this board or not… You may ask him… +Do you know that C is an enemy of our fellowship? That she only wants to find every negative thing she can and post it on her website. She wants to write on her website all negative things she can find out about Vietnam.
I dare not say that. The important thing is whether we be honest or crooked. She should have her responsibility before God with what she does today. God will judge and give His reward or wrath to what we do today. It’s better no one doing wrong for other people not post negative thing into internet. +Do you know that C and DJ, and all the people like that, well they have gone back and joined Protestant churches that your father and all the friends in Vietnam left when they found the Truth in Jesus that the workers brought.
I don’t know who or where they are… But I do know many pastors in Protestant churches have good manner and good example life than these Canadian workers. My two uncles on my mother side are pastors and almost my relatives on my father side still in Protestant Churches. Thery are pastors and Christians, they have had very good life with love and help. I still love and respect these people. Not only my parents said that they follow this True Way because they see the godly life of the workers. If they see all bad things like this, they never professed. Also my husband and many other friends too. +Do you think people like this will be able to give you good advice and help?
My purpose is not received help or any advice from man, God has showed to us his help and advice. + I notice many of the people who post on the Vietnam thread do not love the Way and Truth of Jesus that God's servants bring, men like Fred Allen, Edwin, Chau etc. Some of the people are even athiests!
As I have said, I don’t mind others thinking or doing… But in VN, I can see very clearly many Lyle’s staff dislike uncle Châu, and who mention about uncle Fred too…. Are these workers atheists? + It is ok for you to communicate with them and tell them all your problems, you will soon come to see and understand that you will get more confused and get no help from them. Most of them despise God's servants.
I think they just despise who is under the name “God’s servant”, but doing against with what God has taught in the Bible. We don’t ask for their help, but thanks for they give me a chance to speak out the truth. I am never confused, I had my own choice… to fear and serve God.
All I work here just want to protect the truth for my Holy Father, and His name must be Holy in the earth.
+ But if you earnestly pray to God he will in his own way and time help you!
Oh yea, I’m waiting for that time… His time is going on… I do trust in Him. Everything I do, I do it for Him. Our mighty GOD. + I hope you do not mind me writing to you! I have one good friend (Good friend?), he looked at this professing proboards for some time and he said
"I cannot see anything Godly happening there"
Thank you for your contact, I still wonder who are you? You are being a Royal Member in this board… !!! May I post all your questions and my answers in TMB boad for your good friend can understand my work. If, He "... cannot see anything Godly happening there"
Why he enters in the board. Is he a spy? Sincerely Yours Minh Thanh MT, you have answered this person perfectly well. Whoever it is, he or she puts a manmade way first and God second. You put God first. Thank you for that! It is not of God to make threats and try to create guilt feelings, but anyone trying to protect something manmade will do that. I go to the meetings regularly but I have no use for that sort of thing. |
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Dec 8, 2013 2:39:27 GMT -5
MT, you have answered this person perfectly well. Whoever it is, he or she puts a manmade way first and God second. You put God first. Thank you for that! It is not of God to make threats and try to create guilt feelings, but anyone trying to protect something manmade will do that. I go to the meetings regularly but I have no use for that sort of thing. I also go to meetings regularly and have no respect for the controlling spirit. Thank you MT for exposing the fruitless deeds of darkness. Hold fast to the love you had in the golden years, taught by the words and example of Uncle Fred, Uncle Chau and Uncle Hoa. |
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Dec 8, 2013 4:27:03 GMT -5
MT, you have answered this person perfectly well. Whoever it is, he or she puts a manmade way first and God second. You put God first. Thank you for that! It is not of God to make threats and try to create guilt feelings, but anyone trying to protect something manmade will do that. I go to the meetings regularly but I have no use for that sort of thing. I also go to meetings regularly and have no respect for the controlling spirit. Thank you MT for exposing the fruitless deeds of darkness. Hold fast to the love you had in the golden years, taught by the words and example of Uncle Fred, Uncle Chau and Uncle Hoa. Thank you, Fixit... This morning we sang the Hymn 338 Loose Not Thine Hold,
Uncle Châu’s niece had chosen this hymn on the first meeting we had uncle Châu after he was chased out. We all moved to tears !... He returned to the South VN from the North. Now, every time we sing this hymn, remembering our dark situation… tears still coming in my eyes… Loose not thine hold, O soul, so weary, worn.
Loose not thine hold, Cling fast, the night must come before the morn;
Loose not thine hold, The path is steep, and it is filled with fear;
Lilt up thine eyes, for Christ Himself is near.
He knows the way; His steps were marked with tear:
Loose not thine hold, Consider Him; His heart knows all thy fears:
Loose not thine hold, Though all is dark, and hope and friends are gone,
No ray of light, yet thou must still cling on.
O soul, be brave – no price too great to pay:
Loose not thine hold, For there will come the breaking of the day:
Loose not thine hold, Our life, at best, a few short years will tell.
Hold fast – to fail, for thee means death and hell.
When life seems bright, and all is well with thee.
Loose not thine hold, Oft danger lurks that we may fail to see;
Loose not thine hold, Though dark our path, or be it bright at day.
We need His grace for each step of the way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 4:57:08 GMT -5
Dear MT.
That one lies to you, tells you untruth. Yes, I attend worship services anywhere I am invited, AND speak up for what I believe true wherever I can. I have NOT joined any church group whatsoever. I did NOT "go back", I was falsely accused and then thrust out, and cut off from that 2&2 worker group. Why? I suspect it was to cover their own wickedness in high places, ALSO to ease their consciences from knowing they did nothing to help me as a whole to bear the years of agony and added financial expenses living without support during long recovery alone for the 4 broken bones endured while one of their workers.
Not once have I ever hid who I am or what my true identity is. That person tells you things that simply are untrue, and THAT makes him/her a liar to me, not slanderous but factual by stating things as true that simply are not, still attempting to sow discord among those who truly believe in Yahu'shuah (God-Savior) our true and living way to His and our Heavenly Father. Yes it makes me filled with righteous indignation that someone from anonymity can so smugly spread such deceptive information and from cowardly anonymity!!! I suspect that person already regrets having so written to you!!!
Also, I know and have met Cherie. She has done more to record document, and establish the truthful history of that group than any worker I have ever known, and never has she done so from anonymity. Many of us have benefited from her work done to document and establish that which is really true about which some call "the truth"!
It has been wonderful to see you notice that person uses anonymity to hide themselves from scrutiny as he/she slashes and attacks some of us dishonestly. Do you know why? That person could be held in this country accountable legally and financially for such falsehood and libel. He/she knows it, and KNOWs he/she would lose in any court of law in the USA if someone should object to being their victim(s) any longer. So, he/she MUST hide any means of identity not even daring to post such falsehoods here knowing some of us know HOW to identify him/her in this forum if stating such here.
Thank you so very much for your honesty in posting here as you do. You KNOW from doing so who is honest in what they post here and who is not. May you know only the very best as you live according to conscience!!!
I am indeed, DENNIS ALAN JACOBSEN, age 70 plus, years in that 2&2 work in many states and several countries, and a dedicated member of the 2&2 worker group for 45 years as a third and forth generation B&R child, even defending them for years after my excommunication, UNTIL they, without regard for any other absolutely innocent people, began their uncontrollable slander and libel.
|
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Dec 8, 2013 11:21:37 GMT -5
For clarification, here is some personal information, which shows how little the person writing the above statement knows about me. I was born and raised (B&R) on the Mississippi convention grounds and left meetings at age 42. My husband and I have never joined a church, nor do we attend a church regularly. We worship God like Abraham and Sarah did, and we love doing so. He meets our every need. We've never been so happy. Like A & S, we wander, and assemble here and there occasionally with other believers. The person who wrote the above quote knows little about church attendance. There is a vast difference in (1) joining a church and (2) attending a church service, and (3) regularly attending a church's services. The goal for my website TTT is to provide information to the Friends & Workers (F&W), some of which has been hidden or unknown. I believe they have a right to know. What they do with the information is up to them. Go to: TTT Mission Statement:What are the purposes of TTT? To inform and educate. To publish the plain, unvarnished truth and oppose deception. TTT believes everyone who has ever been connected with this church has a right to know the historical facts concerning their founder and origin. TTT is dedicated to making the historical information easily accessible and readily available and stated in a manner that an adolescent would be able to understand it. It is the goal of TTT that the history of the group will soon become common knowledge to its followers. TTT encourages individual examination and evaluation. TTT is not a church, denomination or religion. TTT is operated by a former member. I do not try to get F&Ws to leave meetings, and I never have. No one has ever come forward and truthfully said that I have tried to get them to leave meetings. I simply do not do that. My father is 93 and he is a professing man...altho he is no longer able to get to meetings. My husband, mother and only sibling, a brother also left meetings. My mother and husband were re-baptized at Faith Bible Church in Edmon, OK. My brother and I have not been rebaptized. My 2 children and their spouses/families are members of the Baptist and Christian church. I believe my father is saved, and that many other professing persons in meetings and believers who do not attend meetings are saved. I believe many who assemble in other church gatherings will also go to Heaven. I do not believe meetings are God's only way to attain eternal life. I believe meetings are one way, among many other ways to worship God. ~~~~~~~~
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Dec 8, 2013 12:47:33 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 12:47:33 GMT -5
Once again I learn something from Cherie. Just because someone relates an untruth does not necessarily make them a liar, and I repent having called this unknowing anonymous person such. Surely, however, if now KNOWING the truth about Cherie, and even myself, if he/she does not retract his/her untrue statement, then he/she becomes exactly what I have considered him/her to be, as I have not perceived him/her as ignorant of what is really true about either Cherie, or myself as has Cherie.
So, before I issue a retraction of my opinion of him/her because of his/her outright statement of that which is untrue as fact, I expect that person to retract that statement to M.T. Do I think he/she will do that? No, I do not, just as I do not think workers will make things right with anyone in Vietnam. However, perhaps it is likely only time will tell?
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 8, 2013 17:45:20 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2013 17:45:20 GMT -5
Recently I received a message from a member asking some questions... I had replied some of these questions like this before... So today I would like to answer not only for him, but also for those who worry about that... Because here is the TMB, I just want to tell the truth, I don't want to hide anything relating to me... (Not cover !...) Minh Thanh Thank you for your concerns and prayers. I am willing to answer your questions one by one. +Does Chau know that you are posting on this forum?
--Yes, I sent the link to brother Chau and Hoa. Because all I posted here are true and I want to let them know first, when I have been accepted to be a new member on this board by admin. I have written to uncle Châu “I don’t want to cover up their wrongs, and don’t play their game…” +Does he think it is a good idea?
-We don't depend on him to post or not. We have a purpose to let those who concerned know that there isn't anything be concealed and I want them to be more careful of their thinking and behavior lest they foul the name of God and offend others. As I had post on TMB. He is afraid to contact with “golden friends” now, because he is still under their lead, and afraid of breaking their rules.. So he didn’t send email to us… or express his idea. How can I know his true thinking? +Do you write and ask him before posting? I know you love and respect him so I do not think you will do anything that he would not want.
-Yes, we do love and respect him but we love and respect God the most. So what I wrote or posted here, I have done in the fear of God. For helping workers and friends to know the real picture and examine themselves not for destroying or killing… +Shall I send him a copy of all the posts you have made? I have his email so can do that if you think he would like to see them.
-I’ll appreciate if you do it... Not only to uncle Châu but also to Uncle Dale, uncle Lyle, and many workers and friends… who concerns to the problems happening in VN as well. Our purpose here just want you all to see the whole picture and have the true imformation. That the reason why I don’t hide anything about mine, my true name, my face… for friends over the world can believe what I have posted. (I wonder who are you? May I have your real name, your email for I can give you more information that I still hide, haven't posted yet... for you to see.) +I am sorry about the problem there in Vietnam. I hope it will all get resolved and you all united again.Does Chau know that you are posting on this forum? I had sent him the links, But I don’t know whether he enters this board or not… You may ask him… +Do you know that C is an enemy of our fellowship? That she only wants to find every negative thing she can and post it on her website. She wants to write on her website all negative things she can find out about Vietnam.
I dare not say that. The important thing is whether we be honest or crooked. She should have her responsibility before God with what she does today. God will judge and give His reward or wrath to what we do today. It’s better no one doing wrong for other people not post negative thing into internet. +Do you know that C and DJ, and all the people like that, well they have gone back and joined Protestant churches that your father and all the friends in Vietnam left when they found the Truth in Jesus that the workers brought.
I don’t know who or where they are… But I do know many pastors in Protestant churches have good manner and good example life than these Canadian workers. My two uncles on my mother side are pastors and almost my relatives on my father side still in Protestant Churches. Thery are pastors and Christians, they have had very good life with love and help. I still love and respect these people. Not only my parents said that they follow this True Way because they see the godly life of the workers. If they see all bad things like this, they never professed. Also my husband and many other friends too. +Do you think people like this will be able to give you good advice and help?
My purpose is not received help or any advice from man, God has showed to us his help and advice. + I notice many of the people who post on the Vietnam thread do not love the Way and Truth of Jesus that God's servants bring, men like Fred Allen, Edwin, Chau etc. Some of the people are even athiests!
As I have said, I don’t mind others thinking or doing… But in VN, I can see very clearly many Lyle’s staff dislike uncle Châu, and who mention about uncle Fred too…. Are these workers atheists? + It is ok for you to communicate with them and tell them all your problems, you will soon come to see and understand that you will get more confused and get no help from them. Most of them despise God's servants.
I think they just despise who is under the name “God’s servant”, but doing against with what God has taught in the Bible. We don’t ask for their help, but thanks for they give me a chance to speak out the truth. I am never confused, I had my own choice… to fear and serve God.
All I work here just want to protect the truth for my Holy Father, and His name must be Holy in the earth.
+ But if you earnestly pray to God he will in his own way and time help you!
Oh yea, I’m waiting for that time… His time is going on… I do trust in Him. Everything I do, I do it for Him. Our mighty GOD. + I hope you do not mind me writing to you! I have one good friend (Good friend?), he looked at this professing proboards for some time and he said
"I cannot see anything Godly happening there"
Thank you for your contact, I still wonder who are you? You are being a Royal Member in this board… !!! May I post all your questions and my answers in TMB boad for your good friend can understand my work. If, He "... cannot see anything Godly happening there"
Why he enters in the board. Is he a spy? Sincerely Yours Minh Thanh MT, you have answered this person perfectly well. Whoever it is, he or she puts a manmade way first and God second. You put God first. Thank you for that! It is not of God to make threats and try to create guilt feelings, but anyone trying to protect something manmade will do that. I go to the meetings regularly but I have no use for that sort of thing. Clearday, this professing person is truly doing their best to make the VN friends who have posted the truth about what is going on in VN, feel guilty. This is exactly the thing that I was fearful would happen to discourage the Golden Friends to tell their story! It is kind of like other things that are not respectable or is criminal, there will always be a professee within the fellowship who will put the pressure on those who seek to tell the truth about the wrong dealings within their scope of life within the 2x2 religion. Effort to make them feel guilty for putting the negative occurrances within the 2x2 fellowship on some kind of communication media. Pressure will continue against them in VN who struggle to right some wrongs of big headed persons who are not in the country legally. I think it is time someone tell the government about these people who come and and make havoc of a peaceable people! |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 8, 2013 23:56:09 GMT -5
Post by Sylvestra on Dec 8, 2013 23:56:09 GMT -5
Yes, Sharon, and I fear of Uncle Chau when he has his meeting with the government people!! He is the "legal" (civic) head of the 2x2's in VN, and he is the one who will be held responsible for the workers being in the country illegally! May God have grace and mercy, and the Western workers will wise up and leave the country again so the friends there can heal the wounds they (workers) have caused!
|
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Dec 9, 2013 2:36:16 GMT -5
Hello Minh Thanh,
Jacobsen and Cherie have told that they have not joined a church. I apologize for offending and causing pain by saying that they joined a church. I am fully ready to correct any factual errors.
I originally wrote...
Do you know that Cherie is an enemy of our fellowship? That she only wants to find every negative thing she can and post it on her website. She wants to write on her website all negative things she can find out about Vietnam.
Do you know that Cherie and Dennis Jacobson and all the people like that, well they have gone back and joined Protestant churches that your father and all the friends in Vietnam left when they found the Truth in Jesus that the workers brought.
it should be
Do you know that Cherie is an enemy of our fellowship? That she only wants to find every negative thing she can and post it on her website. She wants to write on her website all negative things she can find out about Vietnam.
Do you know that Cherie and Dennis Jacobson and all the people like that, well they have gone and now wander (like Cherie said) around the Protestant churches that your father and all the friends in Vietnam left when they found the Truth in Jesus that the workers brought.
I'll answer this part to you on TMB
When we received the news uncle Fred passed away… We were so missed him, we sent email to many friends with his lovely portrait…
I received an email from Uncle Châu’ sister (Also my English teacher in my last year at high school).
She told us her first met with uncle Fred, when he was in a Protestant Church…
She show her respect to him as we have had.
I’m too small to know the reason why Uncle Fred was being there, you may ask uncle Châu for me to know as well. Thanks for advance.
Again…to me…
Not wherever we are, but the most important to me. How we serve and respect our God.
Are we learn to be more like as Jesus life? He is an perfect axample for us.
I would like to see more godly in you as my friend said about you to me…
Please don’t say ill to others. Be patient to read and understand by yourself...
Just only God know who belong to him…
Psalm 3
1 Lord, how many are my foes!
How many rise up against me!
2 Many are saying of me,
“God will not deliver him.”
3 But you, Lord, are a shield around me,
my glory, the One who lifts my head high.
4 I call out to the Lord,
and he answers me from his holy mountain.
The more you ask, the more you will fall into your trap question !...
I would like to do as Jesus had said in Luke 12:
Best wishes
Minh Thanh
2 There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 3 What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.
|
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Dec 9, 2013 3:52:17 GMT -5
Hello Minh Thanh, Jacobsen and Cherie have told that they have not joined a church. I apologize for offending and causing pain by saying that they joined a church. I am fully ready to correct any factual errors. I originally wrote... Do you know that Cherie is an enemy of our fellowship? That she only wants to find every negative thing she can and post it on her website. She wants to write on her website all negative things she can find out about Vietnam. Do you know that Cherie and Dennis Jacobson and all the people like that, well they have gone back and joined Protestant churches that your father and all the friends in Vietnam left when they found the Truth in Jesus that the workers brought. it should be
Do you know that Cherie is an enemy of our fellowship? That she only wants to find every negative thing she can and post it on her website. She wants to write on her website all negative things she can find out about Vietnam.
Do you know that Cherie and Dennis Jacobson and all the people like that, well they have gone and now wander (like Cherie said) around the Protestant churches that your father and all the friends in Vietnam left when they found the Truth in Jesus that the workers brought.
Cherie will be perceived as an enemy by those who try to defend the indefensible. And those who love the darkness. Many have been deceived by lies about the fellowship's history. And many have been hurt by the behaviour of ungodly people presenting themselves as above reproach. I attend meetings and I think covering up ungodliness does the fellowship and ministry no good. I hope Cherie continues to open the fellowship up to scrutiny. As a fellowship we need to repent of our folly and evil and error before we can move forward with God's blessing. |
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Dec 9, 2013 4:05:27 GMT -5
It is people like fixit and Minh that give the fellowship some hope for the future.
Men love darkness more than light. You are finding this in the letter you received Minh.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 5:35:09 GMT -5
Dear MT and all reading along. I retract my calling this 2&2 apologist a liar. To me that person by what is now being said about us, is worse than a liar, he/she is doing level best to discredit anything that might be honestly expressed again from anonymity, and thinks that is honorable. It simply is NOT!
Rather it is cowardly, and very very deceptive and dishonest. Cherie can speak for herself. I will flatly state for myself that this person is doing their best to hurt others, including you. I am NOT wandering anywhere! I follow what I believe is my God-Savior's leading regarding all who believe in HIM! I have received sound practical spiritual advice from believers everywhere, and see their desire to accompany HIM and have HIS Spirit accompany them.
When I was so near death merely several months ago, one group was faithful as an entire congregation to pray for me constantly that I would be restored to meet with them. I managed to do so a couple of times.
Since, due to the added damage to my old spine injuries from the surgery process, the pain from nerve damage is so intense sometimes my legs simply will not support me to get about or go anywhere including places for help and treatment! That this person can ignore the price many continue to pay for having been a worker in their fellowship, is simply beyond me! What love and compassion do they have for those who have given their very all for that system and fellowship? NONE that many of us can see. They are just too busy trying to defend the indefensible.
As long as that person and anyone like him/her continue to believe they can manipulate you, they will continue to try. However, when they learn otherwise, they will turn on you like the wolves they really are and try to rend you to pieces. Yet because of YOUR love for OUR LORD, and others, I have no doubt you will endure as many have endured through the ages. As always wishing you the very best in life.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 9:22:30 GMT -5
I am sure that the insider side of the story would be enthusiastically welcomed by Cherie. Even without that, my experience with Cherie is that she is extremely fastidious about getting the facts straight. I have seen her decline printing many negative things about the fellowship because she wasn't confident that there was sufficient proof of the facts.
Perhaps our friend here would like to solicit those who can tell the other side of the story in a more positive light. We get a steady stream of positive-only stories in meeting at the cost of telling the whole truth so this sort of balance would be welcomed by all. Our friend's accusation of Cherie only publishing one side is exactly what the workers do in their preaching and privately. The assumption that Cherie only wants the bad stuff is wrong....I fully expect she will print all the facts, good or bad.
|
|
|
|
Post by jondough on Dec 9, 2013 9:59:08 GMT -5
I am sure that the insider side of the story would be enthusiastically welcomed by Cherie. Even without that, my experience with Cherie is that she is extremely fastidious about getting the facts straight. I have seen her decline printing many negative things about the fellowship because she wasn't confident that there was sufficient proof of the facts. Perhaps our friend here would like to solicit those who can tell the other side of the story in a more positive light. We get a steady stream of positive-only stories in meeting at the cost of telling the whole truth so this sort of balance would be welcomed by all. Our friend's accusation of Cherie only publishing one side is exactly what the workers do in their preaching and privately. The assumption that Cherie only wants the bad stuff is wrong....I fully expect she will print all the facts, good or bad. This is the reason I too as a professing person, have no problem with Cherie's work as well. I have found her to print ONLY facts, and have spent an enormous amount of time on verification. -"truth" should never - ever be afraid of scrutiny. -"truth" will AWAYS withstand any amount of scrutiny or examination. -If "facts" threaten what you think "truth" is, you better examine what you are calling "truth". -I welcome "facts" good or bad. It helps us see more clearly. Thank you for this Cherie And Thank You for bringing all this in the open MT. No one with good intension should be threatened by openness. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 11:13:04 GMT -5
Whatever doesn't bear scrutiny isn't truth. Cherie's factual carefulness speaks a better message than any careful tiptoeing around the facts to 'spare the kingdom.'
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 9, 2013 11:18:43 GMT -5
Post by stargazer on Dec 9, 2013 11:18:43 GMT -5
concur
|
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Dec 9, 2013 12:21:39 GMT -5
Whatever doesn't bear scrutiny isn't truth. Cherie's factual carefulness speaks a better message than any careful tiptoeing around the facts to 'spare the kingdom.' Bullies seek to spare their own little idolatrous kingdom that gives them a royal position of adoration and authority. It seems that Fred Allen, Chau and Hoa and others like them have lived and taught the true kingdom that is in heaven. The kingdom that puts God himself on the throne - within the hearts of those who have come to love him. These faithful people gained respect and appreciation and affection because of the Christ within them. |
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Dec 9, 2013 15:03:34 GMT -5
Whatever doesn't bear scrutiny isn't truth. Cherie's factual carefulness speaks a better message than any careful tiptoeing around the facts to 'spare the kingdom.' Bullies seek to spare their own little idolatrous kingdom that gives them a royal position of adoration and authority. It seems that Fred Allen, Chau and Hoa and others like them have lived and taught the true kingdom that is in heaven. The kingdom that puts God himself on the throne - within the hearts of those who have come to love him. These faithful people gained respect and appreciation and affection because of the Christ within them. That's how I see it too, fixit. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 9, 2013 21:29:24 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Dec 9, 2013 21:29:24 GMT -5
Whatever doesn't bear scrutiny isn't truth. Cherie's factual carefulness speaks a better message than any careful tiptoeing around the facts to 'spare the kingdom.' Bullies seek to spare their own little idolatrous kingdom that gives them a royal position of adoration and authority. It seems that Fred Allen, Chau and Hoa and others like them have lived and taught the true kingdom that is in heaven. The kingdom that puts God himself on the throne - within the hearts of those who have come to love him. These faithful people gained respect and appreciation and affection because of the Christ within them. I do love this sharing... fixit. Yes, we professed by seeing Christ in our workers... their love, their work (There are many problem happening through the golden time, workers solve the problem between friends very godly under The Spirit of God), and many friends want to obey, and follow their advice. This morning I received an email asking me give her any spiritual advice from uncle Hoa to the Golden friends. My answer just... No… He just want to give advice by his labor not by word… (very silent worker)
But if anyone want to ask, he explained and answered very carefully in spite of day or night, until they understand. You can't not know how many needy soul in VN now, they are waiting for his (uncle Hoa) visiting and telling the message of salvation for them. They are very thirsty, many soul in the far region want to know the message from above for their salvation. So he doesn't mind what other said about him, just continue in his devotion to bring God love to anyone in need. Seeing his hard working... We, all the rest elders closely cooperate with him, to keep the precious things we have had, and share to others. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 9, 2013 21:35:17 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Dec 9, 2013 21:35:17 GMT -5
MT, are you saying there are many individuals who have contacted the friends or Hoa and have asked him to come to them? That Hoa has a waiting list of people who want to see him?
If so, that's extraordinary! And quite amazing!
And maybe this is why you have been saying that VN needs Chau so much?
In North America, the workers can hardly find any who want to hear their gospel--and most who profess are the children of professing parents.
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 9, 2013 21:46:58 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Dec 9, 2013 21:46:58 GMT -5
I want to answer these question in our board too...
A wise family they sit together themselves and talk and resolve the problem within the family.
I'm an old lady with 4 grandchild, B&R in a respect family. I should know this first. Please continue to read and see how I still stand, even go through many made up things !...
We have asked many times a gathering as they have arranged at the time they declared uncle Châu out, for this happening to clear all the misunderstanding as they said, according to the teaching of Jesus in Bible. To Darrel...to overseers from others countries, and then to Lyle S. But they never wanted to do the simple way as Jesus has taught... in the Bible.
You should ask uncle Châu to tell you the truth. He is a very tender worker, but one time he had sighed "We want them come here for help not for rule !..." or "The upper people are not right, the down people must disobey".
p.s. I will be very happy to work hard and write to workers and Overseers for solution of the problem if you want reconciliation, healing and unity again amongst all of God's people and workers in Vietnam. I do not have any fear of any person to tell the truth.
Many thanks for your concern, they had known all... (We had done with them many times by many ways, through last three years. Even asked them to call uncle Châu back, cooperate with uncle Chau to solve the problem, because he (uncle Chau) knows his sheep than these overseers. But they didn't want...).
Maybe I should tell you the story, "Uncle Lyle and his staff in an astray car..."
Paul said it is not possible for the ungodly and worldly people help or judge God's people.
I have found many workers and friends here are still in the fields or in the fellowship, who sent very sweet messages to me to comfort and encouraged me. You too, a royal member here... are you ungodly or worldly people?
Please, don't say like that, because just only God know who is belong to Him.
My friend, the same age as me, she the only one in her family professed, living in USA, still in the fellowship, invited me to this board to tell the truth. I dare not think my friend or many members here are ungodly or worldly people.
My only purpose that tell the truth for no one continue to destroy the peace of God any more !!!...
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 10, 2013 3:27:12 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Dec 10, 2013 3:27:12 GMT -5
Bring it on!
All too often this ministry resolves problems by banishing those who call for accountability.
We have a descending order of accountability.
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 10, 2013 6:29:01 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Dec 10, 2013 6:29:01 GMT -5
MT, are you saying there are many individuals who have contacted the friends or Hoa and have asked him to come to them? That Hoa has a waiting list of people who want to see him? If so, that's extraordinary! And quite amazing! And maybe this is why you have been saying that VN needs Chau so much? In North America, the workers can hardly find any who want to hear their gospel--and most who profess are the children of professing parents. This morning we went out to buy somethings, when returning back we were surprised to see the door was open... and uncle Hoa inside (He has the number to unlock the door). We was surprised because he had said to us last week about his planning to the central, then toward to the North of VN for visiting friends along on the way, sending them the new Wed study Bible topics 2014. Why is he still in Saigon?. I'm quickly set the lunch for three of us... Beside the table we are happy to hear three reasons made him delay his trip. *One very old friend, about 90 years old (the landlord of Vườn Dừa Bến Tre we are gathering many times there). He is very sick now, and wants to meet uncle Hoa... * Another man wants to meet uncle Hoa, because he has just passed the very serious ill, maybe he wants to profess again. * Especially one lady in Suối lạnh, about 150Km far from Saigon, a little hard to reach there, through the rubber tree forest, and some springs... Having experienced our sweet gathering, and attended in our meetings sometimes. She phoned uncle Hoa to be there for her professing. (Very often through our friends life or telling the Truth to friends or neighbors, the people want to know God salvation, we contact with workers come to help them...). This answer for the question above, Uncle Hoa has his plane to go here and there, but wherever God reveal for him there is a needy soul, he is willing to go immediately. We do know that many western workers willing coming to VN, to visit like uncle Hoa, But it really hard for them and our friends also. That is the reason why we need uncle Châu back to VN... because it is appropriate for a native to go anywhere as before. (Not stay in a place and under strange rules). we are waiting for a miracle from God. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 10, 2013 11:41:10 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Dec 10, 2013 11:41:10 GMT -5
3rd March 2012
Nhưng xin các bác hãy vì sự bình yên của ràn chiên Chúa, mà cùng nhau gánh vác công việc Ngài. Phải là 1 ttc người VN đồng dẫn dắt với bác, vì chỉ có người VN mới hiểu người VN. (Và khi đó bác Châu mới có được cái quyền hạn, giúp đỡ tôi tớ và dân sự ở bất cứ cánh đồng nào khi cần đến, mà không phải là mang tội dẫm chân trên cánh đồng người khác.)
But we would like to beg you for the peace of the fold of God to cooperate together to carry the load of God’ work. It’s advisory that a Vietnamese worker shares the leading with you since only a Vietnamese will understand more clearly Vietnamese people.( At this point , uncle Châu has authority to help young workers and friends on any fields whenever it is necessary, and he is free from the guilt of trampling on other worker’s field.)
8th May 2912
Chỉ có, khi các TTC nhận ra vấn đề, họp chúng tôi lại 1 lần nữa… thì mọi việc sẽ ổn cho các TTC và cho công việc Chúa, Tôi thấy tội nghiệp cho ông Lyle, loay hoay che chỗ này, đậy chỗ kia…giùm cho anh Đại, cuối cùng mọi việc cũng sờ sờ ra đấy thôi…
Only when workers recognize the issues, you assemble all of us once more…on my opinion, it will be stabilize for the workers and the work of God. I feel sorry for uncle Lyle trying to cover this part, hide another on Darrel’s behalf, ultimately everything is clear as daylight…
Today, I’m going to tell you the story “Uncle Lyle and his staff in an astray van..."
After sending 2 emails to uncle Lyle, as I quote 1 part above…
On the 18th of June 2012, my youngest brother passed away, three days after an adopted son of a couple friends passed away too. We just met him with his father at my brother’s funeral. With my father, we went to Song Ray (110Km far from Saigon) to comfort the losing with his parents.
Uncle Lyle leading the funeral service…
Having finished the service at home, we all went to the cemetery near there. Many friends followed the coffin by walking or riding on motorbike, but the country lane was too small and muddy (It was the rainy season).
All the workers getting into the first van (They rented this car from Saigon), the second one for the relatives of that family. My father & I were in the last van. These vans ran to another ways, take a roundabout route to avoid muddy place.
Nearly reaching the cemetery, The first van (with all the workers inside) instead of turning right into the way leading to the gate of the ceremony, that van (with the all workers inside) go straight. Seeing the first car went into the wrong way, we stopped and sounded the horn “pin..pin...pin…” It’ seemed the sounds didn’t reach to the driver’s ears, he continued driving ahead… further and further… One of the friends took the motobike running after that van, many others phoned to some workers inside that van.
It was really difficult for the van to turn back, because the road was small just enough for a van, both side are the corn field...
I didn't know how they managed, but at last they turned back… Now after the leading of a motorbike to the cemetery.
All the friends standing there for waiting the workers nearly one hour… The workers did not want to be astray, but the driver did not know the way of that area. Instead of following the other van, he drove in advance”.
This trouble caused us return to Saigon late at night !...
As for me, that was a lively lesson from God for uncle Lyle & his staff.
He was a Canadian, just coming to VN more than a year. How could he knew everything about VN to lead the churches himself. I mentioned to him in my letter on the 3rd of March. It had better to call uncle Châu back to cooperate with him leading and solving the problems raising in many churches, for their driving uncle Chau out, and sending him to Cambodia…
But uncle Lyle didn’t mind… Even uncle Hoa rang the bell (as he mentioned in his heart letter), we were talking, and sending letters to him, to inform him “He was in his wrong way… ” Sadly… for Vietnamese churches.
Maybe tomorrow I should tell you “The death of Joseph…” story.
|
|
