|
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 10:48:42 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 30, 2013 10:48:42 GMT -5
Today we have Bible reading in James 2... James 2
1 My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
A very painful picture coming back to my mind... my heart broke and my eyes shed tears again... The picture in the Bible looks bad, because the poor sits on the floor... In VietNam the poor were chased out !... There was a very poor young family living in the countryside... The parents still young but already had 3 children, life became very difficult for them. The parents worked hard from early morning until midnight to earn money for their family. One time, we and uncle Chau visited them... 4 of us dashed into work with them in order they would finish earlier and we could sit together in the fellowship. That day the work finished at eight we had dinner together then sharing and listening... we went to bed nearly 11 at night... very tired !... Working with them, we could know how hard in their life. We did value their effort to have time to go to the meeting. Because they lived far from Saigon, they had to change the bus three times to get at the meeting place. The father and his oldest boy came to Saigon once Sunday, It's was a special time so he asked uncle Châu if they could come to the special meeting place, near my father house. Uncle Châu asked my father take them there. They all sat in the meeting room (very large and superb room... because the foreign couple stayed there very rich. They were asked everybody came into that meeting had to have the name in the list). How could we know if the boy and his father could come from a distance of 80Km away, we valued the time and the money they had spent to arrive... But because they didn't have the name in the list... Darrel. ordered they had to go out (although they already had seated in the meeting respectfully). They had to leave that place with tear in their eyes, before the witnessing of many friends in the room .We all broke our heart when we heard this happening, and we were sure that if they were rich, they would be welcomed heartly.(Uncle Châu met a little trouble with DT because broke his rule) They felt sad and not go to the meeting again for years... They are happy now for the visiting and feeding of uncle Hoa. How are you feeling!... We all know that God has plan to bring the salvation to the poor, How sadly they behaved in my country. I had tears come to my eyes while reading about the poor man and son who spent money perhaps they didn't have to get to the "special mtg." For the Canadian overseer to put them out was not hospitable much less spiritual behavior! I feel sure that the workers could work in 2 people without a problem where no one would have any idea that their names were not on the list. I have never heard of workers making a "list" of friends that were planning on coming to a spec. mtg. Here in this part of the US, the workers encourage ALL in this area to get themselves to the special mtgs. somehow someway, and the workers often speak to the friends that have vehicles to make sure that those who do not make it to the special mtg. Many years ago, the elder of our Sunday and Wednesday Night mtgs. was the only professing person who had a car....and his wife had a car...sometimes going to spec. mtgs. or gospel mtgs or even funerals this elder made sure that all who wanted to go was able to go. A few times his wife drove one car and he drove one car and thus most all those who professed were able to get to the special mtg or conv. or gospel mtg. This seems to be a horrible way to treat those one is in charge of......I hope the Canadian or US workers demand the "overseer" to be demoted and return to his country soon! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 10:52:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 10:52:49 GMT -5
Thank you for that story minhthanh. It is an example of what happens when compassion is not the #1 spirit leading a worker or a friend.
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 11:00:55 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 30, 2013 11:00:55 GMT -5
Hello, Everybody! I am a new member here. My name is Duyên Thơ, 50 years old. I live in Saigon. I am Uncle Chau's niece. I professed when I was young. I stopped 20 years ago. Now I want to return to God's way to worship. Sadly, I don't see the nice, loving atmosphere I enjoyed in the past any more. I am interesting this board because I can know the problem of this system anywhere in the world so I want to worship God with my sincere heart and the truth in the Bible. Welcome Duyen Tho! When I first became uneasy about some of the things I saw or heard about within the 2x2 fellowship, I made a very conscious effort to start reading and studying about Jesus Christ.....This study was mine for over 3 years....near the end of 3 years is when I learned about the beginning of the 2x2 workership then the 2x2 fellowship....this history really disturbed my roots spiritually and family-wise as well. Then when the truth about the amount of Child Sexual Abuse that had been going on amongst the workers for many years as well as the fornication of some of the workers and all of this "sin" that we as the friends have been seriously talked to by the workers, their's was pushed under the proverbial carpet. Also, I continually asked God to make me know for sure whether His plan for me was for me to continue in the 2x2 fellowship even though staying was really against my conscience. And eventually there was about a period of 6 weeks, that conditions were not possible for me to get to the local mtgs. Also the workers were beginning to press me for special meeting workers' visit....but in the end I got the impression that God was telling me to leave the fellowship because it was wrong for me to subsidize the 2x2 fellowship with my presence, my time or my money; simply because of all that was coming out from under the proverbial carpet that has shaded the dark fruits of the workers and friends ever since the first excommunication which was John Long, then William Irvine, the Eddie Cooney....all 3 were beginning workers.....the Alberta excommunication was so cruel that I still cry over that happening....now the VN problems within the fellowship cause me great sorrow and great feelings for those of you who are feeling the cruelity of it all. So I guess what I'm trying to say Duyen Tho, that I'd advise you to study about Jesus Christ and take your time before making up your mind to return to the 2x2 fellowship......and may God bless you with endurance and wisdom...... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 11:01:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 11:01:24 GMT -5
I hope the Canadian or US workers demand the "overseer" to be demoted and return to his country soon! |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 11:14:16 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 30, 2013 11:14:16 GMT -5
Is Chau allowed to take care of the Vietnamese friends again? Or is he still banished from his own country by the 2x2 ministry juggernaut?
Chau is a tough place, right now because he's no longer in charge like he and Hoa callings all the shots before. The "golden time" friends want his help but he is under the control of the Current adm. so, he must fit in whatever they have planned for him. Chau is going back to VN in January! His hands are tied. Some of the friends and workers listen to the Current Adm. and pay a little attention to Chau's advices. May God direct Chau's steps on how to handle the situation in VN without getting into hot water. Perhaps, many of the friends don't understand Chau's difficult position. I pray that God will step in and fix things up... it seems many workers and the friends have tried and are NOT able to solve it yet. It just came to me, that this condition of adversity between the native workers and new overseer(s) is known in the business world! It's like any new boss who will often fire the previous boss' helpers. They don't want to have anyone around that would undercut their authority, even if that person knew more about the business then the new boss. It is just something that new bosses feel they have to do in order to get everybody on the same level of recognizing that the new boss has the last word on all business transactions! This is kind of an envy situation in reverse perhaps. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 12:02:13 GMT -5
Post by jondough on Nov 30, 2013 12:02:13 GMT -5
It seems that there was a split, and from what i've read, there were about 100 that continue to fellowship away from DT, and the Canadian Overssership.
How many are under the Canadian leadership?
Are the ones under the Canadian leadership instructed not to fellowship with the others? Are they shunning them? What is the exact attitude by the other VN Friends?
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 12:05:46 GMT -5
Post by minhthanh on Nov 30, 2013 12:05:46 GMT -5
It just came to me, that this condition of adversity between the native workers and new overseer(s) is known in the business world! It's like any new boss who will often fire the previous boss' helpers. They don't want to have anyone around that would undercut their authority, even if that person knew more about the business then the new boss. It is just something that new bosses feel they have to do in order to get everybody on the same level of recognizing that the new boss has the last word on all business transactions! This is kind of an envy situation in reverse perhaps.
Thank Sharingtheriches, you have expressed what I felt. Uncle Châu and Hoa are more popular with the friends than Darrel T. A lot of friends asked advice of the two native workers. I saw Darrel didn't like. There were two Asian Workers, one from Taiwan, his name is Chu Han (maybe I spell wrong his name), the other from Hongkong, named Simon. Both of them spoke Vietnamese very fluently and were very loved by friends. They one after another company with Darrel but gradually They were expelled quietly and returned home. We didn't know why. After uncle Châu's case, I know exactly Darrel often made up bad stories to punish those who he envied with.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 12:33:26 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 12:33:26 GMT -5
It seems that there was a split, and from what i've read, there were about 100 that continue to fellowship away from DT, and the Canadian Overssership. How many are under the Canadian leadership? I have heard the number 300. I think it is as 100/200 split but I am not sure. It could be a 100/300 split. Either way, a ratio like that would be a massive upheaval if it happened in North America. We have had testimony right here on the TMB that one biological sister in the meetings was told by workers to shun her sister who was part of the 100. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 12:43:16 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 12:43:16 GMT -5
Quote "clearday:"We have had testimony right here on the TMB that one biological sister in the meetings was told by workers to shun her sister who was part of the 100.
Having experienced this and its effects to even this present day, I KNOW the anguish it brings. For some it even lasts up until their death. It is very easy for me to grieve for those now enduring this in Vietnam or wherever it occurs.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 13:00:25 GMT -5
Quote "clearday:"We have had testimony right here on the TMB that one biological sister in the meetings was told by workers to shun her sister who was part of the 100.
Having experienced this and its effects to even this present day, I KNOW the anguish it brings. For some it even lasts up until their death. It is veery easy for me to grieve for those now enduring this in Vietnam or wherever it occurs. Yes, I think this is particularly harmful when it occurs within the biological family. You can always replace friends if necessary but you can't replace family no matter how necessary! Either way, it goes entirely against the Christian spirit as demonstrated by Christ. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 17:23:58 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 30, 2013 17:23:58 GMT -5
It just came to me, that this condition of adversity between the native workers and new overseer(s) is known in the business world! It's like any new boss who will often fire the previous boss' helpers. They don't want to have anyone around that would undercut their authority, even if that person knew more about the business then the new boss. It is just something that new bosses feel they have to do in order to get everybody on the same level of recognizing that the new boss has the last word on all business transactions! This is kind of an envy situation in reverse perhaps.
Thank Sharingtheriches, you have expressed what I felt. Uncle Châu and Hoa are more popular with the friends than Darrel T. A lot of friends asked advice of the two native workers. I saw Darrel didn't like. There were two Asian Workers, one from Taiwan, his name is Chu Han (maybe I spell wrong his name), the other from Hongkong, named Simon. Both of them spoke Vietnamese very fluently and were very loved by friends. They one after another company with Darrel but gradually They were expelled quietly and returned home. We didn't know why. After uncle Châu's case, I know exactly Darrel often made up bad stories to punish those who he envied with.
I'm very sorry that within the spiritual help realm that envy has such a tight grip.....I do not understand why "foreign workers" would not know and understand that the native workers are more in favor with the members of the church and likely any new convert will turn to the native worker quicker because of the very cultural differences! The envy that has disrupted the 2x2 fellowship in Vietnam has been a curse elsewhere....the workers do "blackball" those whom they want to discredit....this is exactly the same meanness that cost me a job! Telling false stories with a dash of truth in them to start with, and as time goes on the truth is completely lost! And who suffers the most is the one who has been blackballed out of their position that they have enjoyed for a time! |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 17:29:34 GMT -5
Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 30, 2013 17:29:34 GMT -5
I hope the Canadian or US workers demand the "overseer" to be demoted and return to his country soon! Yes, Dennis, I know that's the way it goes however I keep wanting just pure people decency to show up in these battles...but I strongly suspect I'm going to be disappointed if I hold onto that thought very long. It's kind of like the CSA issues that came up, one overseer told me in no uncertain terms he did NOT want to hear or read another such accusation about his peers! WOW! What do you do after that? I have to say that overseer is reaping some pretty hard rewards for some of the things that went wrong with his life......something I'd never in a million years would have thought him to do such things. And then of course, when he has to deal with any of the workers who have been stood down because of the immoral acts and primarily the immoral crimes, he can't stand up to them...they're going to ride right over him because they know that he doesn't shine like a new penny anymore! |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 17:57:07 GMT -5
Post by Greg on Nov 30, 2013 17:57:07 GMT -5
As for the list of people allowed to attend the special meeting, could this have been a prevention to keep by-passers and such out?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Vietnam
Nov 30, 2013 18:06:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 18:06:35 GMT -5
As for the list of people allowed to attend the special meeting, could this have been a prevention to keep by-passers and such out? More likely paranoia about government informants. In this case though, all that should have been needed was for this visitor to be vouched for by the worker he was in contact with. So it makes no sense at all unless the venue was really crowded. |
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Dec 1, 2013 6:23:16 GMT -5
It seems that there was a split, and from what i've read, there were about 100 that continue to fellowship away from DT, and the Canadian Overssership. How many are under the Canadian leadership? Are the ones under the Canadian leadership instructed not to fellowship with the others? Are they shunning them? What is the exact attitude by the other VN Friends? God doesn't want to census His people... In the Golden time we had nearly 300 friends, with many places for gathering... But when the trouble happenned... Some stopped, most part in Ha Noi and Saigon (Big city and also many rich friends live) still follow and support for Canadian overseer. Many still go ahead (almost friends in the countryside) and day by day we welcome more friends go in to our sweet fellowship. Many friends sit with them because of many reasons, but almost dream to have the peace and the unity again as before. Some elders and friends are with them in the fellowship every Sunday morning, but when they heard that we are going to have the gathering here and there, they want to join with us, because they miss the previous atmosphere, just remain among us. Although many prevented... they try to come. In the past, some elders and friends join with us in the special gathering. When they return they were asked by the workers or elders to have a choice to be with them or with us... The answer is their action to associate with us to worship God. We are more than 100 friends, we don't count but may be the number is more than the rest, because many friends in the countryside could not come, because of distance, the health, or their busy work... Our last gathering in DiLinh with 96 friend, including one elder couple still in their side but didn't agree with many things they had done. Because of their thirst of the sweet fellowship they had had before, and accepted to leave them if being asked. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 1, 2013 11:43:34 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Dec 1, 2013 11:43:34 GMT -5
Minh Thanh & Hoan,
RE: Clothing for women
PANTS/SLACKS/TROUSERS/SHORTS: In USA, Canada, U.K., Australia and many other countries, the professing women wear dresses (not slacks, pants, trousers) except for times when it would not be modest to wear a dress. For many years, the workers taught if a professing woman cannot do some activity in a dress--then its best not to do it. Do the VN professing women wear pants for their everyday wear?
SLEEVES: for many years, professing women have worn short sleeves and long sleeves on their blouses. They do not wear sleeveless tops as outer wear. What type sleeve length do professing women wear in VN?
JEWELRY & MAKE-UP: Do professing women wear either of these? Do they wear wedding rings?
HAIR: How do professing women wear their hair?
I'm just wondering if the VN dress standards for professing women are the same as they are iIn USA, Canada, U.K., Australia and many other countries. When you asked Chau to speak to the sister workers about their dress--what were they doing that troubled you?
clearday wrote earlier: We had a worker on home visit at convention not long ago. He told the young people not to bother coming to VN to visit if they are going to dress like they do in Canada. He talked about all his hard work to get the friends in VN to look godly and he didn't want Canadian young people ruining all his "hard work". "Make me proud of you when you come over here". It sounds as if this worker had been working hard to change some of the standards of dress in VN...Do you know what the things were that he had worked to change?
|
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 1, 2013 13:37:28 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Dec 1, 2013 13:37:28 GMT -5
I wonder how many third world counties have native overseer. These countries have Canadian Overseers: Argentina -- Lealand Broughton Taiwan -- Wayne Squair Pakistan -- Clifford Fedirchuk Sweden -- Eldon Knudson France -- Dean Affleck Ukraine -- Don Puffalt |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 1, 2013 14:52:09 GMT -5
Post by christiansburg on Dec 1, 2013 14:52:09 GMT -5
Minh Thanh & Hoan, RE: Clothing for womenPANTS/SLACKS/TROUSERS/SHORTS: In USA, Canada, U.K., Australia and many other countries, the professing women wear dresses (not slacks, pants, trousers) except for times when it would not be modest to wear a dress. For many years, the workers taught if a professing woman cannot do some activity in a dress--then its best not to do it. Do the VN professing women wear pants for their everyday wear?
SLEEVES: for many years, professing women have worn short sleeves and long sleeves on their blouses. They do not wear sleeveless tops as outer wear. What type sleeve length do professing women wear in VN?JEWELRY & MAKE-UP: Do professing women wear either of these? Do they wear wedding rings?
HAIR: How do professing women wear their hair?
I'm just wondering if the VN dress standards for professing women are the same as they are iIn USA, Canada, U.K., Australia and many other countries. When you asked Chau to speak to the sister workers about their dress--what were they doing that troubled you? clearday wrote earlier: We had a worker on home visit at convention not long ago. He told the young people not to bother coming to VN to visit if they are going to dress like they do in Canada. He talked about all his hard work to get the friends in VN to look godly and he didn't want Canadian young people ruining all his "hard work". "Make me proud of you when you come over here". It sounds as if this worker had been working hard to change some of the standards of dress in VN... Do you know what the things were that he had worked to change? It is this very thing that I.Grey refers to in his book that causes people around us to conclude we are not so unified as we say. I have seen standards of dress change over the last few decades and some workers in America have pretty much decided to not hold on to the rules of the past. I think some things people have to decide for themselves. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 15:29:13 GMT -5
Minh Thanh & Hoan, RE: Clothing for womenPANTS/SLACKS/TROUSERS/SHORTS: In USA, Canada, U.K., Australia and many other countries, the professing women wear dresses (not slacks, pants, trousers) except for times when it would not be modest to wear a dress. For many years, the workers taught if a professing woman cannot do some activity in a dress--then its best not to do it. Do the VN professing women wear pants for their everyday wear?
SLEEVES: for many years, professing women have worn short sleeves and long sleeves on their blouses. They do not wear sleeveless tops as outer wear. What type sleeve length do professing women wear in VN?JEWELRY & MAKE-UP: Do professing women wear either of these? Do they wear wedding rings?
HAIR: How do professing women wear their hair?
I'm just wondering if the VN dress standards for professing women are the same as they are iIn USA, Canada, U.K., Australia and many other countries. When you asked Chau to speak to the sister workers about their dress--what were they doing that troubled you? clearday wrote earlier: We had a worker on home visit at convention not long ago. He told the young people not to bother coming to VN to visit if they are going to dress like they do in Canada. He talked about all his hard work to get the friends in VN to look godly and he didn't want Canadian young people ruining all his "hard work". "Make me proud of you when you come over here". It sounds as if this worker had been working hard to change some of the standards of dress in VN... Do you know what the things were that he had worked to change? It is this very thing that I.Grey refers to in his book that causes people around us to conclude we are not so unified as we say. I have seen standards of dress change over the last few decades and some workers in America have pretty much decided to not hold on to the rules of the past. I think some things people have to decide for themselves. The "standard" should be a principle, not a list of rules. The standard being moderation, ie look like an ordinary citizen of the country you live in, neither significantly more liberal or significantly more conservative. People know almost intuitively what is moderate for the society in which they live. Even within a country though, there will be a range of what would be considered modest so to successfully live by a principle, there would have to be a reasonable degree of tolerance to differences. Unfortunately, the intolerance is always where the trouble starts and it gets resolved by setting new rules rather than getting back to understanding the principles. To try to promote a style and rules that span globally borders on nuttiness. I have heard stories of young Asian women who miraculously decided to start doing their hair like the traditional Victorian 2x2 style and never having had met a Western friend before. Of course, no one talked about the photos they had likely seen but regardless, it is a silly and vain effort by the workers to pigeonhole anyone into a dress format, even themselves. The worker I cited came across really legalistically as though he had put a lot of effort into getting his converts to appear within his own narrow tolerances of extremity. He really didn't like how the young people in Western Canada were looking......which is actually very modest and non-extreme when you look at the big picture. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 1, 2013 17:38:15 GMT -5
Post by fixit on Dec 1, 2013 17:38:15 GMT -5
In the past, some elders and friends join with us in the special gathering. When they return they were asked by the workers or elders to have a choice to be with them or with us... The answer is their action to associate with us to worship God. System-minded people are divisive, sowers of discord. They enact laws to control people. Kingdom-minded people are inclusive, sowers of peace. They promote the leading of the Spirit. |
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Dec 1, 2013 17:54:16 GMT -5
We have all these things because we have put our life under the control and leading of the Spirit of God, and the result was LOVE & UNITY. I do wish a big gathering again, and the leader will listen every thought of our friends, and solve this problem according to what God has taught in the Bible (not with their system). I believe God will help who are trust in HIM, and want solve the situation. A big gathering where all are encouraged to express their grievances would be the best way to move forward. It probably won't happen because the overseers tend to be control freaks. I believe most of the workers in the western world don't know what has happened in Vietnam. The overseer class keep it to themselves. Special thanks to our Vietnamese friends for openly discussing the situation and bringing it into the light. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 1, 2013 18:32:43 GMT -5
Post by shipwreckedsailor on Dec 1, 2013 18:32:43 GMT -5
It is this very thing that I.Grey refers to in his book that causes people around us to conclude we are not so unified as we say. I have seen standards of dress change over the last few decades and some workers in America have pretty much decided to not hold on to the rules of the past. I think some things people have to decide for themselves. The "standard" should be a principle, not a list of rules. The standard being moderation, ie look like an ordinary citizen of the country you live in, neither significantly more liberal or significantly more conservative. People know almost intuitively what is moderate for the society in which they live. Even within a country though, there will be a range of what would be considered modest so to successfully live by a principle, there would have to be a reasonable degree of tolerance to differences. Unfortunately, the intolerance is always where the trouble starts and it gets resolved by setting new rules rather than getting back to understanding the principles. To try to promote a style and rules that span globally borders on nuttiness. I have heard stories of young Asian women who miraculously decided to start doing their hair like the traditional Victorian 2x2 style and never having had met a Western friend before. Of course, no one talked about the photos they had likely seen but regardless, it is a silly and vain effort by the workers to pigeonhole anyone into a dress format, even themselves. The worker I cited came across really legalistically as though he had put a lot of effort into getting his converts to appear within his own narrow tolerances of extremity. He really didn't like how the young people in Western Canada were looking......which is actually very modest and non-extreme when you look at the big picture. Sadly, these kinds of religious customs (i.e. length of hair, types of mandated clothing) lead people away from God, not to Him. Traditions or customs become law (aka rules) which then lead to self-righteousness and spiritual pride. |
|
|
|
Vietnam
Dec 1, 2013 19:49:20 GMT -5
Post by CherieKropp on Dec 1, 2013 19:49:20 GMT -5
Chau is a tough place, right now because he's no longer in charge like he and Hoa callings all the shots before. The "golden time" friends want his help but he is under the control of the Current adm. so, he must fit in whatever they have planned for him. Chau is going back to VN in January! His hands are tied. Some of the friends and workers listen to the Current Adm. and pay a little attention to Chau's advices. May God direct Chau's steps on how to handle the situation in VN without getting into hot water. Perhaps, many of the friends don't understand Chau's difficult position. I pray that God will step in and fix things up... it seems many workers and the friends have tried and are NOT able to solve it yet.
The "golden time" friends
Thank you to call us like this, because we still keep on our very precious thing "The Love and the Unity of God among us... in the golden time till now..."
Yes, that's right. When uncle Châu returns home, he will face with an extremely difficult situation... Not only for both side but also with the law of the government about these foreigner workers. He do love the workers, the friends... Because in the past (Before the Canadian workers coming) we all leading under the Spirit of God. We love each others, we unite in serving God, and sharing joy or sorrow... He is still keeping on their system because of the soul of many friends and workers.
We all pray for him. He is tied in their rule now... (I will prove you later). But I do believe GOD still control... with all HIS POWER will cut off all the strings... and fix thing for us.
The purpose I'm being here as my friend required just let you can see the true image. I say the truth I don't be afraid because the truth just one. (Maybe some one who involve with this problem, dislike with true things I have posted here.) If this is true, it seems as it Chau holds the trump card in the game the workers are playing, since he's the registered Overseer of the Church in Vietnam. He's higher up than the Canadian workers. Sorry to hear Chau may be in trouble with the authorities, however... Anyone know the name in which the church is registered? |
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Dec 2, 2013 1:01:25 GMT -5
Anyone know the name in which the church is registered?
I know  The name before liberation day is CHRISTIAN MISSION VN. The leader is Uncle Fred Allan 4 managing committee are Miss Lan Mr Đào Hữu Phỉ (passing away) Mr Nguyen Huu Bau MR Nguyen Thanh Hoa I don't know exactly the year. Right after liberation day, uncle Hoa made a declaration to the Government that Uncle Hoa & Châu continue the mission in VN. Under the name translated into Vietnamese is "Sứ Mạng Thánh Đồ". uncle Châu and uncle Hoa were leaders and now they are still leaders registered with government. In reality, uncle Hoa has been standing in a most dangerous position. We don't mind what the name is, we just want... The leaders should follow what are teaching in The Bible and have the image of Jesus Christ in their life. Today I'm going to tell you a nice picture of a forgein God's servant in VN.
|
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Dec 2, 2013 2:53:14 GMT -5
We have all these things because we have put our life under the control and leading of the Spirit of God, and the result was LOVE & UNITY. I do wish a big gathering again, and the leader will listen every thought of our friends, and solve this problem according to what God has taught in the Bible (not with their system). I believe God will help who are trust in HIM, and want solve the situation. A big gathering where all are encouraged to express their grievances would be the best way to move forward. It probably won't happen because the overseers tend to be control freaks. I believe most of the workers in the western world don't know what has happened in Vietnam. The overseer class keep it to themselves. Special thanks to our Vietnamese friends for openly discussing the situation and bringing it into the light. When uncle Lyle came to VN with the purpose to restore the love, the unity in the church, we all respected him, cooperated with him, poured out all our heart to help him to fulfill his precious duty. Not only talked to him, but also sent him a lot of our letters and friends' in many churches... to express our desire to have a big gathering as they had done on the day they declared uncle Chau out... to give our friends the chance to speak out, and also to hear the explanation from the workers the real reason to stop Uncle Chau in the work (Because we had shown them the evidence that the reason they had said is false and lying). But till now... It probably won't happen because the overseers tend to be control freaks. I'm being here from my friend request to open everything for workers and friends all over the world can see the true situation we are facing with and pray for us. |
|
|
|
Post by minhthanh on Dec 2, 2013 4:02:44 GMT -5
Fixit asked me... Do you know Michael Thorsteinson? We had an American brother named Mike Thorsteinson... He knew many things happening because he labored in VN many years and also accompanied with D.T too. He disagreed with some deeds of D.T and also with uncle Lyle letter, too. One time uncle Hoa had suggested to overseers in his letter that. We wanted brother Mike to be our overseer, and we will support him in that duty. (Mike had a tender heart, sweet love, humble in his words and his action too. We do love him...) As I had said, just some of young workers rolled into overseer works, caused a lot of problem... There are still very good workers, but they keep silent because of the system. Now turn back to brother Mike. More than 1 years ago... We heard that Mike had to left VN... All the friends felt very sad, we didn't know the reason why ...  One Sunday, after the meeting a couple asked uncle Lyle about this. His answer was "There are a letter from friends sent to the government to inform Mike's illegal stay, so he had to leave..." The wife (also sister of a young sister worker and my relative) asked him. "Do you see and read that paper personally by your eyes ?" Of course not... From that time the couple with their children didn't go to the fellowship with them any more !... The made-up story exactly the same with what my niece spoke out to my parent when she visited them. My father very angry and said to his grand daughter "Shut your mouth... You should only come here to visit us, don't build up story". If we wanted to denounce to the government... we should have sent the Canadian's name first. Uncle Mike is a very good companion with uncle Hoa... When we read in the list of the worker's field in 2010. It was Uncle Mike and uncle Chau together. We all said "Two tender workers go together... But unfortunate for uncle Chau... He has chase out in the beginning of that year. We don't know where uncle Mike labor now, maybe in Laos... I do miss him, uncle Mike stay with us some time... during the special meetings. That's all for today... Tomorrow I will tell you our local worker Hoa... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 4:40:25 GMT -5
Interesting about "uncle Mike," because I knew him as a child and young man, long before he became a 2&2 preacher/worker. In fact, not only did I know and play with him as a child, I knew his parents and family well. They were some of those I cared the most for and shared with upon Liquidating my meager possessions to go into that work. He and his family continued to meet with the group gathering in my parents home in south Seattle, and he was once a very good friend with my younger brother.
One reason this is interesting to hear is that it is the first I have heard of him in decades and I've wondered about him. Thank you for relating about him, and I am glad to know of those who love and care for him. Once knew so many like him, and though I was not in fellowship with them any longer, like another who posts in this forum, and many others as well, I never stopped caring about, and loving them, remembering all with sadness at no longer being allowed to be part of their lives.
|
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Dec 2, 2013 4:57:54 GMT -5
Interesting about "uncle Mike," because I knew him as a child and young man, long before he became a 2&2 preacher/worker. In fact, not only did I know and play with him as a child, I knew his parents and family well. They were some of those I cared the most for and shared with upon Liquidating my meager possessions to go into that work. He and his family continued to meet with the group gathering in my parents home in south Seattle, and he was once a very good friend with my younger brother. One reason this is interesting to hear is that it is the first I have heard of him in decades and I've wondered about him. Thank you for relating about him, and I am glad to know of those who love and care for him. Once knew so many like him, and though I was not in fellowship with them any longer, like another who posts in this forum, and many others as well, I never stopped caring about, and loving them, remembering all with sadness at no longer being allowed to be part of their lives. Thanks for this post Dennis. Some of us continue in the fellowship because we care about the good-hearted sincere Spirit-led folks. |
|
