Vietnam

[sharingtheriches]

Nov 27, 2013 19:12:40 GMT -5 @clearday said:

Nov 27, 2013 19:00:01 GMT -5 sharingtheriches said:

What's with that is a feeling of insecurity/jealous. When I was going with my husband and we were talking a bit about marriage, one day he handed me his billfold while he was driving and asked me to pull something out for him. In the process I saw a picture of him some years earlier with a beautiful blond in the picture. I remember feeling some jealousy but I never asked him about it nor said anything about it for I was ashamed a bit for my jealousy. After my husband had died and I was visiting with my sister-in-law, I thought to show her that picture and asked her if she knew who that beautiful young lady was. She said "Why that's me!" I was astounded and unable to reply for a bit. And she went on to say, "I'll bet you were jealous when you first saw that picture!" I had to admit I was.

So I see that it is jealousy that is driving the Canadian workers for they would feel some insecurity having to be in a foreign field, so they decided to begin such a campaign before they ever set foot on land. The campaign being to black ball the resident workers to secure the top places for themselves asap. All jealousy. And they forget this as well as forgetting Jesus all the time anyway, that this is exactly the reason the chief priest stirred up the children of Israel and got Jesus crucified!

Yes, I think that is the right idea. I'm not sure if the word jealousy is quite accurate for the workers there but it amounts to staking their claim to the leadership, and doing it by instituting minor changes so that everyone knows who is making the decisions. A bit like a dog marking his territory.....that might be a better analogy!

I've seen and heard some pretty petty exchanges between workers even here in the mostly peacable Midwest.....it seems to me that isn't the dog marking histerriotry a bit of a jealous maneuver? Just flexing his muscle, so to speak?

[sharingtheriches]

Nov 27, 2013 19:06:39 GMT -5 @clearday said:

Nov 27, 2013 17:59:27 GMT -5 @ram said:

Thanks CD, that's sort of how I was interpreting it, but somehow it doesn't get off the ground? It doesn't fit? However, the Truth is stranger than fiction as they say!

It's ironic isn't it? Workers operating in the Western countries don't look like successful businessmen whom ambitious people want to associate with. However, when they go to other countries and even dress down, they still look like they are rich. If they really want to live their ideals, they would take a page from Gandhi who dressed just like the people he served.

I wonder if these foreign workers even have an inkling as to the effect of their appearance in those countries? They probably feel they have dressed down and more casual than at home so they would be considered a person of modest means.....yet they still look like rich Westerners. They claim to not be rice missionaries, but their appearance is having the same effect.

One real elderly and somewhat less then alright in his head, was making special mtg rounds with some of our workers. He'd finally come home from a man year'd workership in a foreign country which is known for its' poor folks, some starving most the time, children learning to pickpockets and steal things very young....Any way he was standing there trying to preach and I noticed his clothing looked really badly worn.....then I remembered some of the other workers that used to speak about him while he was still in the foreign country that when he was sent money for his needs, he almost always used as little of the money as possible to have a place to stay and a bit of nourishment and gave the rest of it away to the converts in his care...just so they wouldn't starve and get so taken up with living that they couldn't pay heed to their spiritual needs.

I heard later that he'd refused to buy or let anyone buy him new clothes after he'd come home to stay simply because he said that if the church's converts in that poor country could get by with so little that he'd lived that way himself so long, he just didn't want to change. Eventually I think some of the friends who were his size convinced him it was alright to take some of their used clothing which looked a whole lot better then what he normally wore.

[fixit]

Nov 27, 2013 18:19:59 GMT -5 jondough said:

It wasn't that they were requiring anything really wrong. It was just the way they came in and took over....

I think I know what you mean, but taking over is really wrong in itself.

The impact of their behavior was not minor.

Lyle S had writen a letter and asked the workers to go throughout the country to read his letter.

Two things that we disagree with him in that letter was…

+ Friends had to respect the workers in the highest place

(We think that the highest place only for God not for them).

+ From now on Hoa doesn’t have any part on the work in VN. (In fact uncle Hoa has a bigger part than them, he works hard for our soul for more than 42 years).

[trungnguyen2006]

Hi all,

I'm the new member of this topic and I think this is the time for me to speak out.

My name is Hoan Nguyen, I'm Minh Thanh's daughter and oldest grand- daughter of Mr. Bau as well.
I have attending the meeting with my parents since I was 1 month old, and I made my choice 20 years ago.
I'm married and have 2 sons, I name my 2 sons : Timothy and Titus with the hope that my son will be useful in the work like uncle Chau and Hoa untill the Canadian workers came.

Those workers that my mother has mention are not only chased uncle out of the work but also drive a wedge between the peoples.

So that's the reason why i'm here to give you more information about Vietnam's situation now

[CherieKropp]

Welcome Hoan! 

I have enjoyed corresponding with your mother and grandfather, and am glad that you have started posting also. 
Do you all live near each other?

As you can see from the Vietnam thread, the readers have a lot of questions they hope you and your mother will answer soon.

Cherie

[Deleted]

Nov 27, 2013 20:48:52 GMT -5 trungnguyen2006 said:

Hi all,

I'm the new member of this topic and I think this is the time for me to speak out.

My name is Hoan Nguyen, I'm Minh Thanh's daughter and oldest grand- daughter of Mr. Bau as well.
I have attending the meeting with my parents since I was 1 month old, and I made my choice 20 years ago.
I'm married and have 2 sons, I name my 2 sons : Timothy and Titus with the hope that my son will be useful in the work like uncle Chau and Hoa untill the Canadian workers came.

Those workers that my mother has mention are not only chased uncle out of the work but also drive a wedge between the peoples.

So that's the reason why i'm here to give you more information about Vietnam's situation now

Thank you for supporting your Mother and welcome to the board. We are glad you joined! 

[christiansburg]

Nov 27, 2013 20:48:52 GMT -5 trungnguyen2006 said:

Hi all,

I'm the new member of this topic and I think this is the time for me to speak out.

My name is Hoan Nguyen, I'm Minh Thanh's daughter and oldest grand- daughter of Mr. Bau as well.
I have attending the meeting with my parents since I was 1 month old, and I made my choice 20 years ago.
I'm married and have 2 sons, I name my 2 sons : Timothy and Titus with the hope that my son will be useful in the work like uncle Chau and Hoa untill the Canadian workers came.

Those workers that my mother has mention are not only chased uncle out of the work but also drive a wedge between the peoples.

So that's the reason why i'm here to give you more information about Vietnam's situation now

Welcome to this board. I am on the other side of the world from you. But anytime our people are distressed I am very concerned. We just don't know all the facts. So perhaps you can enlighten us all. We know there
are sometimes misunderstandings between friends and workers. Often that is a result of not understanding each other the way we should.

You will find that as you tell your story it will come down on both sides with varying perceptions. When you are ready to say what you will please just stay with the facts. I am not offering judgment one way or the other because I just don't know but I am concerned. Believe me, you have our prayers and compassion and I hope things get cleared up soon without worse division than you have already seen.

[trungnguyen2006]

Nov 27, 2013 20:57:26 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

Welcome Hoan! 

I have enjoyed corresponding with your mother and grandfather, and am glad that you have started posting also. 
Do you all live near each other?

As you can see from the Vietnam thread, the readers have a lot of questions they hope you and your mother will answer soon.

Cherie

Hi Cherie,


I'm new to you but you are not new to me as my parents and my grand parents have told about this topic, about you and every body who concern about the situation in Vietnam. There are alot of things that I want to share but I don't know where should I start now.

[Deleted]

Dear Vietnamese friends: Chao! It has been almost 51 years since being in the Da Nang area, (about 25 K west and south up the Del Sol.) Was supposed to help establish a Medical Corp for the ARVN and being with USA MI (unarmed Medical Sevices advisor) was forbidden to even speak of it for forty years.

Did meet Fred A. just momentarily in the "Saigon" area on my way up to Da Nang, but could not say much. Forced to leave after a few months, so I did not get much to remember being in country with except some scars and massive doses of Q-A, which I now understand has harmed many in country, also. Wondering if any there suffer from it?


Personally, I believe it was reports from people there like myself that resulted in the base established at Da Nang rather than up around Hue. Wishing you all well, knowing you have much to face and deal with...and many of us know about it first hand. Xin chao...Or is it "chao tam biet" there now?

[CherieKropp]

Hi Hoan,

I understand telling the VN story may be somewhat overwhelming.

You might tell us some more about you and your family.  What are your children's ages?

You might start by telling about how things was before and after the Canadian workers first came to VN.
The readers here are keenly interested in the changes made and also how Chau and Hoa handled things after Uncle Fred had to leave in 1975.

These are just my suggestions.  Or, you could just tell us whatever is on your heart.  We're "all ears" as we say in America.

Cherie

[trungnguyen2006]

Nov 27, 2013 21:03:24 GMT -5 christiansburg said:

Nov 27, 2013 20:48:52 GMT -5 trungnguyen2006 said:

Hi all,

I'm the new member of this topic and I think this is the time for me to speak out.

My name is Hoan Nguyen, I'm Minh Thanh's daughter and oldest grand- daughter of Mr. Bau as well.
I have attending the meeting with my parents since I was 1 month old, and I made my choice 20 years ago.
I'm married and have 2 sons, I name my 2 sons : Timothy and Titus with the hope that my son will be useful in the work like uncle Chau and Hoa untill the Canadian workers came.

Those workers that my mother has mention are not only chased uncle out of the work but also drive a wedge between the peoples.

So that's the reason why i'm here to give you more information about Vietnam's situation now

Welcome to this board. I am on the other side of the world from you. But anytime our people are distressed I am very concerned. We just don't know all the facts. So perhaps you can enlighten us all. We know there
are sometimes misunderstandings between friends and workers. Often that is a result of not understanding each other the way we should.

You will find that as you tell your story it will come down on both sides with varying perceptions. When you are ready to say what you will please just stay with the facts. I am not offering judgment one way or the other because I just don't know but I am concerned. Believe me, you have our prayers and compassion and I hope things get cleared up soon without worse division than you have already seen.

Hi Christiansburg

I'm agree with you that judgment should not come from one way. However, the situation in Vietnam is not like a misunderstandings because during the last three years, myself have arrange many meetings with the workers espcially Mr. Lyle.S so that they can have a better understand about the siatuation. Do you know what is the result? Lyle.S told us that: " If you refuse to obey ME, I will not take care of you anymore" Can you imagine those words come from a WORKER?
There are a lot of voice record about these meetings with the workers, if anyone of you are interested in it, I'm willing to share.

[CherieKropp]

RE:  There are a lot of voice record about these meetings with the workers, if anyone of you are interested in it, I'm willing to share.

Yes I would be interested.

[trungnguyen2006]

Nov 27, 2013 21:33:51 GMT -5 @dennisj said:

Dear Vietnamese friends: Chao! It has been almost 51 years since being in the Da Nang area, (about 25 K west and south up the Del Sol.) Was supposed to help establish a Medical Corp for the ARVN and being with USA MI (unarmed Medical Sevices advisor) was forbidden to even speak of it for forty years.

Did meet Fred A. just momentarily in the "Saigon" area on my way up to Da Nang, but could not say much. Forced to leave after a few months, so I did not get much to remember being in country with except some scars and massive doses of Q-A, which I now understand has harmed many in country, also. Wondering if any there suffer from it?


Personally, I believe it was reports from people there like myself that resulted in the base established there rather than up around Hue. Wishing you all well, knowing you have much to face and deal with...and many of us know about it first hand. Xin chao...Or is it "chao tam biet" there now?

Xin chào Dennis,

It's good that  you still remember it although you just have a few months in Vietnam.
I'm was born in 1980, after the liberation day, therefore I don't have any experience about the war.
However, after 38 years from the liberation day, Vietnam has grown alot, espcially Ho Chi Minh and Da Nang city, and in Da Nang, Hue and some provinces in the centre is still suffer with the doses of Q_A.

[trungnguyen2006]

Nov 27, 2013 21:35:52 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

Hi Hoan,

I understand telling the VN story may be somewhat overwhelming.

You might tell us some more about you and your family.  What are your children's ages?

You might start by telling about how things was before and after the Canadian workers first came to VN.
The readers here are keenly interested in the changes made and also how Chau and Hoa handled things after Uncle Fred had to leave in 1975.

These are just my suggestions.  Or, you could just tell us whatever is on your heart.  We're "all ears" as we say in America.

Cherie

Well, let's start with myself.
My parents have 2 children, my youger brother and I. We both professed and enjoy the fellowship meeting as well as gospel meeting which is open in my parent home. I got married 7 years ago and I have 2 son, Timothy is 6  and Titus is 3 years old. My husband is not profess at the time we get married but he enjoy coming to the gospel meeting, after joining several meeting, he asked me one day: "Is there any class distinction between local workers and foreigner workers?" He loves and appriciate the sacrifaction of uncle Chau and Hoa while these foreigner workers using luxury motobike, traval here and there by airplane, living in a very expensive appartment...

[Sylvestra]

I would like to add my welcome to you with others here!!  I am so happy to read that your family has been able to continue in their love and service to our Lord through all these trials there in VN.  When "the body" is divided I understand that it can be difficult to continue in fellowship and a good spirit toward those who divide.  Your little group of the friends there have been in my prayers as I have followed this thread, in your courage to continue in your fellowship with our Lord!

In God's Love,
Edy

[minhthanh]

Nov 27, 2013 13:25:21 GMT -5 fixit said:

Nov 27, 2013 12:10:42 GMT -5 snow said:

It's hard for me to believe this split is over something as unimportant as kneeling or not kneeling when praying. Surely someone isn't going to be upset to that degree over such a thing.

That's right, not because these unimportant things caused the split. The main thing is that we, the believers, didn't see the love among the workers, they spoke ill of each others. In another case, a couple of companion (workers) didn't want to talk to each other although they have to live in the same apartment. The Canadian overseer belittled the two native workers. We all saw these things... so how can we continue trusting this system. They preached the love of God but we didn't see the love among themselves how could we listen to their words.
So my answer to Nathan that those changes were not important. The important thing we didn't feel Spirit of God being in them. So their deeds such as changing this or that not doing in the Spirit of God and love.

[fixit]

Nov 28, 2013 0:14:10 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

That's right, not because these unimportant things caused the split. The main thing is that we, the believers, didn't see the love among the workers, they spoke ill of each others. In another case, a couple of companion (workers) didn't want to talk to each other although they have to live in the same apartment. The Canadian overseer belittled the two native workers. We all saw these things... so how can we continue trusting this system. They preached the love of God but we didn't see the love among themselves how could we listen to their words.
So my answer to Nathan that those changes were not important. The important thing we didn't feel Spirit of God being in them. So their deeds such as changing this or that not doing in the Spirit of God and love.

I understand what you're saying Minhthanh.

When the system is leading, people bring forth carnal fruits. They don't have the power of godliness in their lives that results from the Spirit of God leading.

[minhthanh]

Nov 26, 2013 11:14:12 GMT -5 NathanB said:

I have some questions for you chi Minh Thanh.... So, what you are saying is you, your family, 100 friends and Hoa have LEFT and NO LONGER having fellowship with the REST of the Current friends and workers in VN, Right?

If the current adm. change for the better, will you, your family, 100 friends, and Hoa ever going to RETURN and having fellowship with the Currents friends and workers?

What were you, the 100 friends, Hoa doing the last 3 yrs for fellowship? Do you have your own groups of fellowship together? Can you tell us what is your current situation of the group as a whole. Do you/they have a plan? Will some of you go back to your former churches where you came from for fellowship? Thanks, in advance.

I have some questions for you chi Minh Thanh.... So, what you are saying is you, your family, 100 friends and Hoa have LEFT and NO LONGER having fellowship with the REST of the Current friends and workers in VN, Right?
- In order to answer you, I want to give you an image. In a family, the parents are not in harmony. They want to divorce. so as to the children, they are divided in two. One group of children is on mother's side, the other on father's. the fault is not of chidren. They all still love each other.

So, we are friends, we still love each other although we don't in the same meeting. One sister in the rest part, ask my husband to scan her letter to  send to Lyle Shultz and workers and friends both side. In her letter, she suggest to have a big operation, to cut and throw away the wrong things and asked Lyle S to represent workers to apologize God's people.

Some months ago, I received a message from mobile of an old friend from the countryside, asking me to transfer his message to workers and friends that I could connect saying that these pains caused by workers, so the workers should resolve with each other sooner to restore the peace and unity. But now still an horrible silence.

Listening to the cry of sheep, uncle Hoa left his place to help, feed them.
Uncle Châu wanted to return to his work to help the young workers ( He told me) but the system push him out the country, going to Cambodia, East Timor, Australia...
Now the government call him back... maybe he can have a chance to help them...
I still love our Vietnamese young workers... just a part of them cooperate with overseer made thing worse... the rest still nice but afraid and keep silent...

What were you, the 100 friends, Hoa doing the last 3 yrs for fellowship? Do you have your own groups of fellowship together? Can you tell us what is your current situation of the group as a whole. Do you/they have a plan? Will some of you go back to your former churches where you came from for fellowship? Thanks, in advance.


We still worship God as before in harmony, love and united, God give us His care, His love, and joyful even we are in such situation. Some of the friends, even elder in other side feel sad and miss the atmosphere they had had, and want to leave to join, to be one with us in the love and unity of God.
We only want to see the love and unity among the workers for we can see the image of our Lord to follow.
No plan... because GOD has promise  to plan for us... We trust in HIM.

[Deleted]

Nov 27, 2013 19:06:39 GMT -5 @clearday said:

Nov 27, 2013 17:59:27 GMT -5 @ram said:

Thanks CD, that's sort of how I was interpreting it, but somehow it doesn't get off the ground? It doesn't fit? However, the Truth is stranger than fiction as they say!

It's ironic isn't it? Workers operating in the Western countries don't look like successful businessmen whom ambitious people want to associate with. However, when they go to other countries and even dress down, they still look like they are rich. If they really want to live their ideals, they would take a page from Gandhi who dressed just like the people he served.

I wonder if these foreign workers even have an inkling as to the effect of their appearance in those countries? They probably feel they have dressed down and more casual than at home so they would be considered a person of modest means.....yet they still look like rich Westerners. They claim to not be rice missionaries, but their appearance is having the same effect.

Yes this is starting to fit now. People, and in particular women, in some far Eastern countries are keen to latch on to Western men. They perceive them to be "wealthy" in comparison to their own people and Western men in places like the Philippines, Thailand, etc., have to be careful around women who are just after them for the perceived benefits. It is sometimes their only hope (read dream) of getting a better life. Yes I think I see things now, at least from the Vietnamese position?

From what our Vietnamese Friends are saying, it looks obvious to me that Canada is in dire need of receiving Vietnamese Workers, not the other way round?

Western Workers appear to be much more highly revered than indigenous Workers, so it is very important that they do things right. It should be sufficient for them to identify the workings of the Spirit amongst the people and give the glory to God for that. Instead they appear to want the Spirit to be in subjection to their system and thereby the system is glorified instead.

One very positive note that from a different angle I can identify with, is that the situation in Vietnam is causing faithful people over there to look to God and to measure their "shepherds" against God's word and spirit. They are going through painful times, but God will lay on their hearts that which is right.

[minhthanh]

Yes this is starting to fit now. People, and in particular women, in some far Eastern countries are keen to latch on to Western men. They perceive them to be "wealthy" in comparison to their own people and Western men in places like the Philippines, Thailand, etc., have to be careful around women who are just after them for the perceived benefits. It is sometimes their only hope (read dream) of getting a better life. Yes I think I see things now, at least from the Vietnamese position?

Exactly,
There were some women follow them because they think that these workers were business man. One time two ladies met them... The older said to the younger "This old man is mine... the other young man is yours" And they tried to approach  them !...
(these two ladies said to me that at first they thought these workers are businessmen and now they are married with foreigners outside.)

Many young students followed because Morris invited them to the restaurant. One time Uncle Châu asked a student at my house "What is the reason get you come to listen".
The answer  surprised me "I can enjoy very good food and practise speaking in English." By this way a lot of young people came... And Morris G said "The fish automatically jump into the net, we don't need to catch them". 

(This student who lived in Hà Nội. One time she had been to Saigon (the South) and wanted to meet Morris, but he was on his convention tour. She phoned uncle Chau, but didn't know uncle was back to the South because he was out !... He stayed with us some time).
These things only happened in the north of Vietnam .

[CherieKropp]

To Minh Thanh & Hoan:
I heard that an Australian friend opened and owns an English school where the workers go to teach English...Is that correct?
Does it also teach Vietnamese to English speaking people?
Do you know the name of the school?  What city is it located in?
Cherie

[sharingtheriches]

Nov 28, 2013 0:14:10 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Nov 27, 2013 13:25:21 GMT -5 fixit said:

That's right, not because these unimportant things caused the split. The main thing is that we, the believers, didn't see the love among the workers, they spoke ill of each others. In another case, a couple of companion (workers) didn't want to talk to each other although they have to live in the same apartment. The Canadian overseer belittled the two native workers. We all saw these things... so how can we continue trusting this system. They preached the love of God but we didn't see the love among themselves how could we listen to their words.
So my answer to Nathan that those changes were not important. The important thing we didn't feel Spirit of God being in them. So their deeds such as changing this or that not doing in the Spirit of God and love.

You are correct that when love is not witnessed between the workers, then questions and problems will abound. I'm reminded here of what Jesus told his Apostles just a short time before He was crucified. And He said He gave them a new commandment that they love one another as He had loved them while with them. And that others would know that they were His by this love for one another.

[Deleted]

Nov 28, 2013 7:05:17 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Yes this is starting to fit now. People, and in particular women, in some far Eastern countries are keen to latch on to Western men. They perceive them to be "wealthy" in comparison to their own people and Western men in places like the Philippines, Thailand, etc., have to be careful around women who are just after them for the perceived benefits. It is sometimes their only hope (read dream) of getting a better life. Yes I think I see things now, at least from the Vietnamese position?

Exactly,
There were some women follow them because they think that these workers were business man. One time two ladies met them... The older said to the younger "This old man is mine... the other young man is yours" And they tried to approach  them !...
(these two ladies said to me that at first they thought these workers are businessmen and now they are married with foreigners outside.)

Many young students followed because Morris invited them to the restaurant. One time Uncle Châu asked a student at my house "What is the reason get you come to listen".
The answer  surprised me "I can enjoy very good food and practise speaking in English." By this way a lot of young people came... And Morris G said "The fish automatically jump into the net, we don't need to catch them". 

(This student who lived in Hà Nội. One time she had been to Saigon (the South) and wanted to meet Morris, but he was on his convention tour. She phoned uncle Chau, but didn't know uncle was back to the South because he was out !... He stayed with us some time).
These things only happened in the north of Vietnam .

Thank you MH. from what you say, foreign workers, especially from Western countries, really have a duty to be extra careful in countries like Vietnam, with regards to their appearance and lifestyle? The best way for to get the message correctly received is to support the local workers and friends and to defer to them in matters of local organising and culture. They should only take charge when asked to do so by those apparently already in charge, or where they see some grievous wrongdoings or weaknesses.

That way any hangers on would be pointed to the head "local" workers.

[fixit]

Nov 28, 2013 5:23:24 GMT -5 @ram said:

It should be sufficient for them to identify the workings of the Spirit amongst the people and give the glory to God for that. Instead they appear to want the Spirit to be in subjection to their system and thereby the system is glorified instead.

You said that well Ram.

The system triumphed over the Spirit in Alberta and the Vietnam troubles are a flow-on effect of that.

The courage of the Vietnamese in supporting the work of the Spirit is commendable.

Revelation 2:2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.

3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

[Deleted]

Nov 28, 2013 12:24:17 GMT -5 fixit said:

Nov 28, 2013 5:23:24 GMT -5 @ram said:

It should be sufficient for them to identify the workings of the Spirit amongst the people and give the glory to God for that. Instead they appear to want the Spirit to be in subjection to their system and thereby the system is glorified instead.

You said that well Ram.

The system triumphed over the Spirit in Alberta and the Vietnam troubles are a flow-on effect of that.

The courage of the Vietnamese in supporting the work of the Spirit is commendable.

Revelation 2:2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.

3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

I am very heartened by the enduring testimony of these friends in Vietnam, considering their history. I would not have been aware of it but for these current troubles being brought to this board and for one kind person drawing my attention to this thread, which I had hitherto not been following.

In a strange way, these troubles apparently brought about by the interference of the Canadian Workers, have worked in a positive way, in that the quiet testimony of these Vietnamese Friends, basically sown in secrecy, has been gloriously revealed openly. May they stand firm in their faith and always seek to do that which the Spirit lays on their heart, rather than follow those who sow seeds of discontent. Until the Canadian Workers came along, it seems that God had been organising things very well in Vietnam. We are reading here of great testimony to that.

[quizzer]

Nov 28, 2013 5:23:24 GMT -5 @ram said:

Nov 27, 2013 19:06:39 GMT -5 @clearday said:

It's ironic isn't it? Workers operating in the Western countries don't look like successful businessmen whom ambitious people want to associate with. However, when they go to other countries and even dress down, they still look like they are rich. If they really want to live their ideals, they would take a page from Gandhi who dressed just like the people he served.

I wonder if these foreign workers even have an inkling as to the effect of their appearance in those countries? They probably feel they have dressed down and more casual than at home so they would be considered a person of modest means.....yet they still look like rich Westerners. They claim to not be rice missionaries, but their appearance is having the same effect.

Yes this is starting to fit now. People, and in particular women, in some far Eastern countries are keen to latch on to Western men. They perceive them to be "wealthy" in comparison to their own people and Western men in places like the Philippines, Thailand, etc., have to be careful around women who are just after them for the perceived benefits. It is sometimes their only hope (read dream) of getting a better life. Yes I think I see things now, at least from the Vietnamese position?

From what our Vietnamese Friends are saying, it looks obvious to me that Canada is in dire need of receiving Vietnamese Workers, not the other way round?

Western Workers appear to be much more highly revered than indigenous Workers, so it is very important that they do things right. It should be sufficient for them to identify the workings of the Spirit amongst the people and give the glory to God for that. Instead they appear to want the Spirit to be in subjection to their system and thereby the system is glorified instead.

One very positive note that from a different angle I can identify with, is that the situation in Vietnam is causing faithful people over there to look to God and to measure their "shepherds" against God's word and spirit. They are going through painful times, but God will lay on their hearts that which is right.

Wild concept - but I'm wondering if, when the brother workers upped their clothing in the West (1950s), did that bring the 2x2 system into more importance? Y'know, make appearance, separation, dress codes/buns for women more important? Could explain the importance of exclusivity in the meetings.

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Nov 28, 2013 0:14:10 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Nov 27, 2013 13:25:21 GMT -5 fixit said:

That's right, not because these unimportant things caused the split. The main thing is that we, the believers, didn't see the love among the workers, they spoke ill of each others. In another case, a couple of companion (workers) didn't want to talk to each other although they have to live in the same apartment. The Canadian overseer belittled the two native workers. We all saw these things... so how can we continue trusting this system. They preached the love of God but we didn't see the love among themselves how could we listen to their words.
So my answer to Nathan that those changes were not important. The important thing we didn't feel Spirit of God being in them. So their deeds such as changing this or that not doing in the Spirit of God and love.

I can certainly see how that would be important to you. I sure hope all this turns out well for everyone involved. All the best to you and your family and welcome to the board.

[snow]

Nov 28, 2013 12:24:17 GMT -5 fixit said:

Nov 28, 2013 5:23:24 GMT -5 @ram said:

It should be sufficient for them to identify the workings of the Spirit amongst the people and give the glory to God for that. Instead they appear to want the Spirit to be in subjection to their system and thereby the system is glorified instead.

You said that well Ram.

The system triumphed over the Spirit in Alberta and the Vietnam troubles are a flow-on effect of that.

The courage of the Vietnamese in supporting the work of the Spirit is commendable.

Revelation 2:2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.

3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

I guess if it worked once in Alberta they feel it should work again in VN. Sad. They don't seem to have any concept about the heartache they have caused. Or maybe they don't care as long as they are 'king'.