Vietnam

[sharingtheriches]

Nov 20, 2013 17:15:37 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

who made mistakes and need to humble ourselves and say, "I am Sorry when we are wrong." to heal the wounds of those who are involved, hurt feelings, forgiven, etc...

Nathan... we don't need any sorry or apologize from them...  no one can heal the wounds but God. The only one we want to see  Whoever is overseer (the leader) should be like Paul in this 1 Cor 11  Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.



Then the peace can came... we know that Christ is the God of peace.
18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval.
The divisions must happen... but if all are under the control of The Spirit of God... all will be done in the calm way.
I do hope to have an overseer follow the example of Christ.

It seems to me the very fiber that is causing an exodus of good people out of the 2x2 fellowship IS because that some of the workers has caused the apothecary to stink and now the whole religion is unpalatable for many....those who have exited the fellowship are finding ourselves free of the dirt and hell that has come from such things as the Alberta Excommunications and now the Vietnam scourge....I hope they would put the 2 Vietnam brother workers back over the whole church in VN and IF they must have foreign workers to work in VN Let those workers take a back seat while they learn the ropes/language/customs. JMO

Prayers going out to the friends in Vietnam and I'm very touched that those who've been hurt are already learning that God is the answer for peace and love...I think it was in one of JOhn's letter in the NT that states that "God is love..."!

[CherieKropp]

Interesting that it was the Canadian workers who had the problem in Alberta

And it was the Canadian workers who caused the problem in VN

What other countries are the Canadian workers the overseers of? 
Wonder if this the plan they have worldwide for countries they are Overseers of.
Are they going in and trying to make other countries follow the Canadian traditions?

[fixit]

Nov 20, 2013 18:46:44 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

Interesting that it was the Canadian workers who had the problem in Alberta

And it was the Canadian workers who caused the problem in VN

What other countries are the Canadian workers the overseers of? 
Wonder if this the plan they have worldwide for countries they are Overseers of.
Are they going in and trying to make other countries follow the Canadian traditions?

Is it more that the Western Alliance (currently dominated by Canadians) wants to extend its control?

[minhthanh]

I hope they would put the 2 Vietnam brother workers back over the whole church in VN and IF they must have foreign workers to work in VN Let those workers take a back seat while they learn the ropes/language/customs. JMO

This is the best way... They had done very good works during the time after liberation day...
Foreigner worker should be a helper... 
The younger workers even foreigner should respect the older, regardless they are local or foreigner. 

[jondough]

Minhthahn,

What is being done differently - specifically - that you did not do before?

I understand that they insist on assigning fields with territories - not to be crossed, whereas the workers before, went where the Spirit led, or where they felt the need was.

Is this correct, and are there other things?

[fixit]

The following post explained a lot:

Nov 18, 2013 0:16:18 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

I'm the third child of Mr & Mrs Bau. The second generation in this way. I was professed when I was twelve years old. I am married with a professed man. My family used to welcome the workers coming to have meals at my home or stay. We used to have Sunday morning and midweek meetings at our house in thirty years. We had wonderful fellowship with workers and friends.

But since the Canadian came here at first we think they come here to help the local workers only, but gradually we see that they overthrow the leadership of uncle Chau and Hoa, and they use the money to portray a worker as a big businessman with very expensive motorbike, living in expensive apartment to attract many young people to come and friends want become workers.

These workers support everything the Canadian overseer want to do or change, even the overseer ask young workers don't listen to the local worker who long time labour in this country.

The story is long, I will tell one by one because my English is not good, I don't have much words in order I can depict the story clearly and exactly as it is

[minhthanh]

Nov 20, 2013 19:55:24 GMT -5 jondough said:

Minhthahn,

What is being done differently - specifically - that you did not do before?

I understand that they insist on assigning fields with territories - not to be crossed, whereas the workers before, went where the Spirit led, or where they felt the need was.

Is this correct, and are there other things?

Many changes from Darrel ...
One that you had raised... I think this is the main purpose cause Darrel want to chase uncle Chau out of the work... Because he didn't obey this rule of this organization.(he used to visit all the country since when all foreigners had to leave VN after 1975, his field was throughout the country)..He continued to visit our friends in the countryside. 
Only sitting in the meeting to pray and speak... In the past we knelt down when praying... and standing when giving testimonies(it was more respectful).
Don't allow to learn Bible in the family together( Parents and children) as we used to do... just learn alone.
No taking food to the union for potluck as we used to have (Very lovely and encouraged friends working together in love.)
Many others change...

[BobWilliston]

Nov 20, 2013 21:10:20 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Nov 20, 2013 19:55:24 GMT -5 jondough said:

Minhthahn,

What is being done differently - specifically - that you did not do before?

I understand that they insist on assigning fields with territories - not to be crossed, whereas the workers before, went where the Spirit led, or where they felt the need was.

Is this correct, and are there other things?

Many changes from Darrel ...
One that you had raised... I think this is the main purpose cause Darrel want to chase uncle Chau out of the work... Because he didn't obey this rule of this organization.(he used to visit all the country since when all foreigners had to leave VN after 1975, his field was throughout the country)..He continued to visit our friends in the countryside. 
Only sitting in the meeting to pray and speak... In the past we knelt down when praying... and standing when giving testimonies(it was more respectful).
Don't allow to learn Bible in the family together( Parents and children) as we used to do... just learn alone.
No taking food to the union for potluck as we used to have (Very lovely and encouraged friends working together in love.)
Many others change...

These changes have nothing at all to do with being more "scriptural" -- notably less scriptural, really. But the relative insignificance of these changes with respect to scripture, the obvious objective of such moves is to establish their trademark on the "Truth" in VN. This is not a naïve move -- it's an established modus operandi of new overseers on the West Coast.

[Lee]

Sounds like the way my boss operates: ego-gratification before work.

[fixit]

Some scripture comes to mind...

Matthew 23
4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;

6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;

7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.

11 The greatest among you will be your servant.

12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.


15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.


23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

[fixit]

Nov 20, 2013 21:10:20 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

No taking food to the union for potluck as we used to have (Very lovely and encouraged friends working together in love.)

This looks like divide and rule tactics.

Nov 20, 2013 21:10:20 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Don't allow to learn Bible in the family together( Parents and children) as we used to do... just learn alone.

Making the friends more worker-dependant?

[minhthanh]

Nov 20, 2013 17:23:01 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

Nov 20, 2013 13:31:39 GMT -5 NathanB said:

How long would it take a new worker to learn the Vietnamese language? 

According to their intelligence... We have a young Canada sister worker Anne M... Just after 2 year of studying, she can speak Vietnamese very fluently. But the brothers... such as Darrel and Colin, or Peter recently... can not speak the accent clearly, or express their idea as her. She is a lovely sister... she knows a part of the situation... because I am in her field that time... She often stayed with us on Saturday. My father said "What a pity for her... come to VN this time... not only her but also a sister worker from Philippine too). Very pity for her. I & my parents still love and respect them.

[BobWilliston]

Nov 20, 2013 23:35:48 GMT -5 fixit said:

Nov 20, 2013 21:28:37 GMT -5 BobWilliston said:

No taking food to the union for potluck as we used to have (Very lovely and encouraged friends working together in love.)

This looks like divide and rule tactics.

Nov 20, 2013 21:28:37 GMT -5 BobWilliston said:

Don't allow to learn Bible in the family together( Parents and children) as we used to do... just learn alone.

Making the friends more worker-dependant?

I think you'r responding to minhthanh

[Admin]

Many changes from Darrel ...
One that you had raised... I think this is the main purpose cause Darrel want to chase uncle Chau out of the work... Because he didn't obey this rule of this organization.(he used to visit all the country since when all foreigners had to leave VN after 1975, his field was throughout the country)..He continued to visit our friends in the countryside.

Eddie Cooney all over again...

These small men only desire to control you, not for you to be under the control of Christ. They would surely have excommunicated Paul

Only sitting in the meeting to pray and speak...

As if that's important to God!

Don't allow to learn Bible in the family together( Parents and children) as we used to do... just learn alone.

It sounds all very Roman Catholic! Don't encourage you to read the bible together (you might learn something from it). Only the priests workers can teach you the bible CORRECTLY.

Control, control, control....

Know you are in fellowship with lots of your brothers and sisters around the world Minh Thanh, who are praying for you all, and for uncle Châu

[minhthanh]

Nov 20, 2013 14:18:21 GMT -5 @dennisj said:

WHAT? Workers apologize? Admit to being wrong publicly and honestly?

This is what my older sister want and pray to see from her workers (She still in their fellowship but not agree with their doing!)
She said: "I feel very easy... It seems hard for them !..." I'm keeping in my pray... My older sister has a tender heart...

One day, my sister came into my house and said to me: - "Workers asked me to separate with you !..."  My answer is; "Why I have to separate with my sister, while she doesn't do anything wrong to me."

[jondough]

What we are seeing here is the dangers of tradition. Do a search of tradition in the bible. Everytime jesus talked about it, he was condemning it.

Though Tradition is not wrong in itself, it is very dangerous. It so easily becomes your religion. They become more important than the weightier things.

Don't think these same things wouldn't happen to us if we were to start breaking our traditions. What is appalling though, is trying to force western tradition on the VN people. They have obviously known a great deal of joy and contentment doing things in their own traditions.

What needs to happen is an overseer that has love, joy peace, long suffering, gentleness, meekness, kindness, and the love of God and his people in front of their own motive for control....needs to bring these people back together. There is no reason for them to be split. I can hear a craving for unity, and a love for those that they have been split from. They need to be brought back together....

There is absolutely no reason for them to be split.

Forget the apologies - those are just words....Just turn from the absolute injustice, and do what is right. Apologize by your actions.

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2013 0:45:33 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Nov 20, 2013 14:18:21 GMT -5 @dennisj said:

WHAT? Workers apologize? Admit to being wrong publicly and honestly?

This is what my older sister want and pray to see from her workers (She still in their fellowship but not agree with their doing!)
She said: "I feel very easy... It seems hard for them !..." I'm keeping in my pray... My older sister has a tender heart...

One day, my sister came into my house and said to me: - "Workers asked me to separate with you !..."  My answer is; "Why I have to separate with my sister, while she doesn't do anything wrong to me."

Separating families is the work of evildoers. They think they are doing the right thing for your sister because they fear your influence on her will be greater than theirs and she will "lose out" too. They fail to realize that "if God is with us, then who can be against us?"

Destroying the bond of love within families is against everything Christian.

[fixit]

Paul wrote about a man who was full of his own importance and caused division in the church:

3 John 1:9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will not welcome us.

10 So when I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, spreading malicious nonsense about us. Not satisfied with that, he even refuses to welcome other believers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.

11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2013 5:01:44 GMT -5 NathanB said:

Jesus said in Matthew 10:34-37

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn

“a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Nathan I can hardly believe that you would support the workers going round telling people to separate from their families. That is a complete abuse of those verses. The workers have absolutely no authority to turn people against their own families.

In the case of minhthanh and her sister, they are both Christ followers and the workers are turning two Christ followers, both who love Christ, against each other. Do you really think that is the work of God or is it the work of the devil?

We have workers trying to separate parents from their children in remarriage situations which is even worse.

The meaning of those verses is that if two people don't put the attributes of Christ first in their lives, they will turn against each other sooner or later. It doesn't mean that workers can run around turning their families against each other. Workers should be doing the opposite, trying to bring families together, especially those who love Christ. If anything, both sisters should separate from whoever is trying to destroy their family because whoever is doing this doesn't have the love of Christ in them, and don't know what it is.

[sharingtheriches]

Nov 20, 2013 21:10:20 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Nov 20, 2013 19:55:24 GMT -5 jondough said:

Minhthahn,

What is being done differently - specifically - that you did not do before?

I understand that they insist on assigning fields with territories - not to be crossed, whereas the workers before, went where the Spirit led, or where they felt the need was.

Is this correct, and are there other things?

Many changes from Darrel ...
One that you had raised... I think this is the main purpose cause Darrel want to chase uncle Chau out of the work... Because he didn't obey this rule of this organization.(he used to visit all the country since when all foreigners had to leave VN after 1975, his field was throughout the country)..He continued to visit our friends in the countryside. 
Only sitting in the meeting to pray and speak... In the past we knelt down when praying... and standing when giving testimonies(it was more respectful).
Don't allow to learn Bible in the family together( Parents and children) as we used to do... just learn alone.
No taking food to the union for potluck as we used to have (Very lovely and encouraged friends working together in love.)
Many others change...

Well, it sure seems to me that the workers are taking the overseership back to the days when they excommunicated one of the founding workers, like Eddie Cooney for example

Also seems like the victims in VN are going to go the way that Eddie Cooney's followers went.....the leading by the Holy Spirit sometimes is the only way to service a broad area with so few members...one just has to go where the need is the greatest for that moment! And then being willing to pull up and go somewhere else.

This is surely shown to us in what Jesus told His Apostles when He sent them out the first time....they were to enter into a city, and go into a home and IF that home was peaceable and hospitable then the Apostles were NOT to leave that home until their mission was done for that city, I understood the founding worker William Irvine wanted to go out on faith lines somewhat like this found in Matt. 10, but then when the "living witness" doctrine got a good handhold all that faith lines has become corrupted!

[CherieKropp]

I too can hardly believe Nate used that verse to MIS-apply to the VN situation. 

[sharingtheriches]

Nov 20, 2013 17:53:46 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

These overseers and many workers do whatever they choose without being questioned or accountable so it's habitual to keep things quiet and in the dark.

This statement is very true... we can see it clearly with things are happening in VN.
Right after the big gathering with overseers (from some other countries), all the workers in the country (except uncle Châu), and all the elders from many provinces and areas...
To witness they declare "Chau is not in the work anymore.... because of !..."
Almost the friends fell down in pain... They chose many way to deal with workers according to what their feeling... 

My son (who loved and respected Uncle Darrel so much) said: "Uncle Darrel doesn't know the result what he does today"

From then he doesn't trust these workers any more... He said to me "I just want to be a good child with you, a good man in life... please don't force me to follow these people". Because I often advise him keep faithful  to "The Way of Truth" .


They not only kill the soul of my children... but also many others... This is the biggest pain in my heart.
Hopefully... they all still being very good children and good people in life too.

I can understood your son's need to put space between the workers and whatever they're seeking to do. Now Jesus had warned people in his day about something like this in that "Be not afraid of the one who can kill your body, BUT be afraid of the one who can kill your soul!" I've wondered many times just who this person that kills souls might be. It certainly is NOT someone led by the Holy Spirit! I used to think that God was the only one who could kill our souls simply because He gives us our souls, etc in our creation However I think the one who Jesus is speaking about is someone very much like the workers who have caused untold pain and bleakness of hungry souls which eventually can kill those souls. So perhaps we should be afraid of those who can do this to us? Also Paul wrote about us being careful with whom we get caught up with, because of the forbidding to marry, etc issues. Jesus also told us that we should be careful in who we believe for many will say the Christ is here or the Christ is over there or the Christ is with us.

Also we've been warned that those who seek darkness(secrecy is dark, eh?) to do their evil deeds. So it seems to me if the workers can not be upfront in what they seek to do or teach and not answer questions or be respondsible to the members who are asking, then perhaps we should be very cautious in allowing the workers to have ANY effect on us, and we all just turn to God and do away with all this pomp and circumstance or traditions of men who are the ones who make up the religions in the world today and always have been

[sharingtheriches]

Nov 20, 2013 23:35:48 GMT -5 fixit said:

Nov 20, 2013 21:10:20 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

No taking food to the union for potluck as we used to have (Very lovely and encouraged friends working together in love.)

This looks like divide and rule tactics.

Nov 20, 2013 21:10:20 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Don't allow to learn Bible in the family together( Parents and children) as we used to do... just learn alone.

Making the friends more worker-dependant?

Dividing or separating people is what most abusers learn to do...keeping them from having time to exchange their feelings and questions in regard to the ruler or keeping someone of them to start advice that the abuse is there and make separated people far more dependent on the abuser....just a greater control measure, but it is not what Jesus teaches.....we're taught that Jesus is the head and all other Chrisitians are members of the body and not one member is to be pulled apart from the body and persecuted regardless of it unseemly part!

It is with sadness that I'm coming to realize just how much the workers have got into this "controlling the fellowship members"....it really is something to be seriously cautious about......those who can kill the souls of people are a dangerous people to be around.

Thank God! Our Saviour is alive....and he knows all, he sees all...he's experienced all Or at least he's been heavily tempted by all.

[sharingtheriches]

Nov 21, 2013 9:40:15 GMT -5 NathanB said:

I am posting what Jesus said.... because of what you wrote, "Destroying the bond of love within families is against everything Christian." Here are more of what will happen in the last days Jesus said in Matthew 24:8-14 All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

There are two sides to every story. I have heard from Chau, Minh Thanh, professing friends in Portland... The situation is NOT so good in VN. Hopefully, those who are involved will sort things out before it get worse and the love of MANY will grow cold like in Alberta.... The solution is to Stop it before the Cancer is spreading further to other parts of the body.

Nathan, the love of MANY will grow cold like in Alberta...bothers me...it's as if when people lose their love and respect for the workers, then these are the people who will grow cold like in Alberta!

However it ISN"T the victims who have lost their love and respect for the workers that are TURNING COLD! It is the workers who are cold despot rulers, unable to understand what they themselves have become! It's ugly what they've become....they're riding on this "controlling" status into what? Maybe what they're predicting those people who do not support them in their ugly despot behavior are apt to be....lost for all eternity!

Again, the First Two Commandments are what Jesus, Himself, stressed for mankind...and that was: Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy mind and with all thy soul. The Second Commandment is like unto it: Love thy neighbor as thy self!

It's love that should be the "ruling" spirit amongst those who truly believe in Jesus....and It's love that helps those who are tempted to be bigshots in the work over a few members that would turn them from this dark behavior/fruit.

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2013 9:40:15 GMT -5 NathanB said:

I am posting what Jesus said.... because of what you wrote, "Destroying the bond of love within families is against everything Christian." Here are more of what will happen in the last days Jesus said in Matthew 24:8-14 All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

What Jesus said had nothing to do with "Destroying the bond of love within families is against everything Christian.". Destroying the bond of love is the work of evil, not the work of Christ. Christ came to bring love to and between all mankind and it is people who are filled with hate who become separated from their families. This happens all the time between all people including family members when hatred meets love and when evil meets good......they separate. It's like oil and water. However, when family love is being broken up by so-called servants of God, it doesn't get much worse. Do you think it is ever right for workers to separate people from their families?

There are two sides to every story. I have heard from Chau, Minh Thanh, professing friends in Portland... The situation is NOT so good in VN. Hopefully, those who are involved will sort things out before it get worse and the love of MANY will grow cold like in Alberta.... The solution is to Stop it before the Cancer is spreading further to other parts of the body.

It is being sorted out, just like Alberta. The issues don't matter. Here is what matters: if you support the workers, you are ok, if it appears you don't support the workers and all the mistakes they make, they want you out and separated from your family who do support the workers. The workers haven't learned a single thing from the Alberta experience because they always believed they were in the right then and they believe they are in the right today in Vietnam. They are going to continue to do very little except wait to let it blow over and also try to separate the ones loyal to them from those who are not, and if destroying family bonds is what is necessary, they will try it. The workers today are separating the sheep from the goats and there is little evidence that they care about who gets hurt because their calling is so much higher than that.

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2013 10:13:20 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

I too can hardly believe Nate used that verse to MIS-apply to the VN situation. 

.....and to justify such abusive action by the workers.

[sharingtheriches]

I read that "separating the goats from the sheep or vice a versa" was what Jesus said he'd do on judgment day....setting the sheep on his right hand and setting the goats on his left...telling those on his right welcome into eternal life and those on his left that he never knew them!

It's very sad that there has become a large number of workers who are the ruling workers of the fellowship are really only into increasing their own importance....they'll say they seeking change as if in the change that's been asked of them in regards to something....but the only change they seek is to increase their importance and their wealth! They don't seem to care that people are exiting while others are dying and being buried and few newbies brought in. That will leave ONLY the worker hierarchy or level and with supposedly money deposited here and there, the ruling class of worker shave nothing to worry about! Their life is good whichever way they turn!

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2013 10:51:08 GMT -5 @clearday said:

Nov 21, 2013 9:40:15 GMT -5 NathanB said:

I am posting what Jesus said.... because of what you wrote, "Destroying the bond of love within families is against everything Christian." Here are more of what will happen in the last days Jesus said in Matthew 24:8-14 All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

What Jesus said had nothing to do with "Destroying the bond of love within families is against everything Christian.". Destroying the bond of love is the work of evil, not the work of Christ. Christ came to bring love to and between all mankind and it is people who are filled with hate who become separated from their families. This happens all the time between all people including family members when hatred meets love and when evil meets good......they separate. It's like oil and water. However, when family love is being broken up by so-called servants of God, it doesn't get much worse. Do you think it is ever right for workers to separate people from their families?

There are two sides to every story. I have heard from Chau, Minh Thanh, professing friends in Portland... The situation is NOT so good in VN. Hopefully, those who are involved will sort things out before it get worse and the love of MANY will grow cold like in Alberta.... The solution is to Stop it before the Cancer is spreading further to other parts of the body.

It is being sorted out, just like Alberta. The issues don't matter. Here is what matters: if you support the workers, you are ok, if it appears you don't support the workers and all the mistakes they make, they want you out and separated from your family who do support the workers. The workers haven't learned a single thing from the Alberta experience because they always believed they were in the right then and they believe they are in the right today in Vietnam. They are going to continue to do very little except wait to let it blow over and also try to separate the ones loyal to them from those who are not, and if destroying family bonds is what is necessary, they will try it. The workers today are separating the sheep from the goats and there is little evidence that they care about who gets hurt because their calling is so much higher than that.

Amen and amen CD.