Vietnam

[Deleted]

Nov 16, 2013 12:07:02 GMT -5 NathanB said:

Nov 16, 2013 10:33:01 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

Nate, here's your answer straight from Mr. Bau's daughter:

"I thinhk it doesn’t matter if you use the true name… because we want to Tell The Truth.
Minh Thanh

Thanks, they can post their full names that is their choice. Do they have their permission to post other people full names on the Internet? Did she or her father ask for theirs permission? if they weren't living under communist country it wouldn't matter. I will write to Chau and let him know that his full name is posted And many workers full names and pictures are posted...then perhaps, he can write to you, Cherie and Minh Thanh about it. If they give you the permission then that is fine with me.

There has been constitutional freedom of religion in Vietnam for almost 10 years. The bugaboo isn't communism or the constitution, it is that the government requires registration of religious groups and that is where Mr.Bau or the F&Ws could run afoul of the law.

[jondough]

You can send the message to your local workers Nate, and it will find its way to Dale.

I'm sure Cherie would have no problem sending you a PM with her e-mail address to give to Dale.

[jondough]

Nov 16, 2013 12:53:33 GMT -5 NathanB said:

Nov 16, 2013 12:45:00 GMT -5 jondough said:

You can send the message to your local workers Nate, and it will find its way to Dale. I'm sure Cherie would have no problem sending you a PM with her e-mail address to give to Dale.

There are many friends and workers from California reading on here they can alert Dale S. and if he wants to get in touch with Cherie K. about posting his/others full names he can do it through her TTT website. Let him read the article and see for himself...

www.tellingthetruth.info/history_pioneering/vietnam.php

um...yah....

but.....

most of the Friends and Workers reading here hardly advertise the fact that we are reading all that internet garbage....

I doubt any worker is going to call or e-mail Dale and say...."by the way, I was on the TMB the other day, and ........"

Dale would say, "why were you on TMB?"

Worker......um, er....just happened to stumble on it when I was looking up directions to that old widows house we were going to visit"......

[uker260702]

Dale S, if you`re reading here, expect an anonymous call from Nate shortly!

[Deleted]

I have great respect for Stanley Sharpe:- he was my first companion in Saskatchewan 1965-66. Although I was never aware he was the overseer in Sask. Must have been for a very short period of time. He was made of completely different stuff than Dale S. I was Dales companion in Sask 2 years.

[CherieKropp]

I now have a copy of Hoa's "heart letter--written in VIETNAMESE!!  Hoa is willing for it to be posted on TTT.

Need to get it translated first tho.

[Deleted]

Nov 16, 2013 12:12:39 GMT -5 @clearday said:

There has been constitutional freedom of religion in Vietnam for almost 10 years. The bugaboo isn't communism or the constitution, it is that the government requires registration of religious groups and that is where Mr.Bau or the F&Ws could run afoul of the law.

So foreign workers clear choice to mislead the government in their prime purpose to come into the country is simply an effort to get around a truthful registration of their organizations existence in the country. This organizational existence in the country is hardly deniable.

This is the typical 2x2 work-around (that 2x2ism is famous for) to avoid telling the plain and simple truth. And then a bad smelling attempt to explain to people as to why this deliberate effort to mislead is OK -- in just this situation!?

And then they have the gall to ask us not to write their full names openly, so that they don't get caught and be held responsible for their deliberate and organizational demanded direct attempts at deception.

[minhthanh]

Nov 17, 2013 1:37:43 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

Hi everybody...I'm Minh Thanh from VietNam... One of my friend follow this website and asked me to join... in order workers and friends overthe world can understand clearly what happen in VN more than last 3 years. 
Concerning to Ucle Châu & Uncle Hoa... our two local worker...

[minhthanh]

Sorry !!!
This is the first time I work in website... So I'm not acquainted.

[Deleted]

Welcome minhthanh. Take your time, everyone wants to hear your story.

[minhthanh]

Sorry... I'm not very good in English !... Anyway, I'll try my best to answer your question.



I do agree this idea...

I am not interested in running a cover up for them - I will not play their game!.

[Lee]

Welcome and by the way, its helpful to copy long posts BEFORE pressing 'Create Post' because sometimes they get lost.

[minhthanh]

Nov 17, 2013 23:16:19 GMT -5 @clearday said:

Welcome minhthanh. Take your time, everyone wants to hear your story.

I'm the third child of Mr & Mrs Bau. The second generation in this way. I was professed when I was twelve years old. I am married with a professed man. My family used to welcome the workers coming to have meals at my home or stay. We used to have Sunday morning and midweek meetings at our house in thirty years. We had wonderful fellowship with workers and friends.

But since the Canadian came here at first we think they come here to help the local workers only, but gradually we see that they overthrow the leadership of uncle Chau and Hoa, and they use the money to portray a worker as a big businessman with very expensive motorbike, living in expensive apartment to attract many young people to come and friends want become workers.

These workers support everything the Canadian overseer want to do or change, even the overseer ask young workers don't listen to the local worker who long time labour in this country.

The story is long, I will tell one by one because my English is not good, I don't have much words in order I can depict the story clearly and exactly as it is

[Scott Ross]

Welcome to the TMB minhthanh.

Take all the time you need to tell your story.

[Admin]

Nov 17, 2013 22:48:46 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Nov 17, 2013 1:37:43 GMT -5 CherieKropp said:

Hi everybody...I'm Minh Thanh from VietNam... One of my friend follow this website and asked me to join... in order workers and friends overthe world can understand clearly what happen in VN more than last 3 years. 
Concerning to Ucle Châu & Uncle Hoa... our two local worker...

Welcome to TMB, Minh Thanh. Also greetings to Uncle Châu & Uncle Hoa. They sound like two workers who need plenty of support right now.

And be bold in standing for Christ and the truth that he has put in your heart.

Here are some nice words from Ephesians 4 "Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work."

We need only one head, who is Christ. The rest including foreign workers are simply parts to do their work, whatever that might be (perhaps to fade into the background).

Admin

[minhthanh]

Thank admin for letting me to be a member... for I can pour out my heart about our situation in VN recently.
I agree with you that We need only one head, who is Christ. That is my believe and worship through years... till now.

[minhthanh]

Back to beginning when the Canadian workers came... We never know there is a position in God Way : "OVERSEER"
We just hearing that the younger worker will obey the older... And we are the friends obey the workers... And the workers are under the leading of Holy Spirit and live as Jesus teach in The Bible.
One day I asked Uncle Châu gave advice to some young sister workers... Because their appearance not like sister workers in the past.
The answer I receive from uncle Châu just "Now they do not obey my advice any more, they just obey Darrel T. You may speak direct to him..."
Day by day we know that there is a power upon us by OVERSEER !!!.

[Deleted]

Good to see you here Minhthanh -- Appreciate your openness and courage to post in your own name as well -- This of course adds credibility to the issues that concern you.

I agree that the power structure of the 2x2ism of today is a strong contrast to the beautiful humility and respect for lowliness that Jesus spoke about.

There is an extreme dishonesty in the modern day 2x2ism denial of organization, when their organizational stucture is patterned just like a very tightly run business (as you pointed out). A far cry from the simplicity and humility of the teaching and spirit of Christ.

EVERYONE inside the organization understands the intricate details of how the organization works, yet have been taught to dishonestly deny the organizations existence.

This kind of dishonesty is an utter shame for anyone claiming Christianity.

[quizzer]

minhthanh, glad to have you on TMB, and sorry that your meetings are being split by these politics.

Is there anything we can do?

[fixit]

Nov 18, 2013 12:32:49 GMT -5 quizzer said:

minhthanh, glad to have you on TMB, and sorry that your meetings are being split by these politics.

Is there anything we can do?

Would it help to give the overseers less money?

[fixit]

Nov 18, 2013 3:15:21 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Back to beginning when the Canadian workers came... We never know there is a position in God Way : "OVERSEER"

That was to Uncle Chau's credit that you didn't know there was a position of overseer.

Mark 10:42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.

43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,

44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

[CherieKropp]

This is what I've gleaned from my sources and from Mr. Bau and Minh Thanh and her husband about the Overseers of Vietnam since the first workers went to VN:

The Overseers of Vietnam from 1957 to the present have been: Alex Mitchell* (from New Zealand?), Fred Allen (from Australia), Nguyen Thanh Hoa & Vu Ngoc Chau (from Vietnam), Cliff Toane (from Canada/Hong Kong), Jim Chafee (from South Dakota USA/Hong Kong); and Morris Grovum (from SK, Canada), Darrel Turner (from AB Canada), Lyle Shultz (from SK Canada).

When Fred Allen went to Vietnam, Alex Mitchell was the Overseer over Singapore, Malaysia, Borneo, Thailand and Vietnam until 1974 when his memory failed and he returned to New Zealand, where he died in 1980 at the age of 84.

Fred Allen was in charge of Vietnam from 1957 to 1975 when he and all the foreign workers had to evacuate due to the communist occupying the South of Vietnam. He handed the responsibility for VN over to the two native workers, Nguyen Thanh Hoa and Vu Ngoc Chau. “These 2 local workers Nguyen Thanh Hoa & and Vu Ngoc Chau, God’s people respect them very much. They take care of the folk devotedly, even in the most difficult time.” (Nguyen Huu Bau)

When Fred Allen could not stay in Vietnam, he asked Cliff Toane to assume the overseership and Châu and Hoa cooperated with him. Cliff was from Canada and was preaching in Hong Kong. In 1992 Cliff came to visit, but couldn’t stay in Vietnam. In 1997, Cliff’s health failed and he handed the responsibility for VN to Jim Chafee from South Dakota, USA who was also preaching in Hong Kong. From 1992 to 1999, Cliff Toane and Jim Chafee only came to Vietnam for visits, “sometimes in a year, both of them couldn’t stay even 1 month!” (Nguyen Huu Bau)

Around 2000, Morris Grovum from SK, Canada came to be the VN Overseer and Darrel Turner, from AB, Canada, took over from Morris in ___?. In 2011 the responsibility went to Lyle Shultz from __, SK? Canada and he is the current overseer (2013).

*Mr. Bau wrote that he knew Alex Mitchell who visited VN some, but he never realized that he was Fred and Edwin Allen's Overseer! 

[Lee]

Nov 18, 2013 13:20:08 GMT -5 fixit said:

Nov 18, 2013 3:15:21 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Back to beginning when the Canadian workers came... We never know there is a position in God Way : "OVERSEER"

That was to Uncle Chau's credit that you didn't know there was a position of overseer.

Mark 10:42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.

43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,

44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

So what's an overseer? How are the overseers of the workers being faithful or unfaithful to the task of passing on the wisdom and glory and callings Christ lived, died, and rose for?

[Lee]

Minhthanh may soon become overwhelmed by the divergence of views on TMB or as Gem once put it, "The Chaos".

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2013 3:15:21 GMT -5 minhthanh said:

Back to beginning when the Canadian workers came... We never know there is a position in God Way : "OVERSEER"
We just hearing that the younger worker will obey the older... And we are the friends obey the workers... And the workers are under the leading of Holy Spirit and live as Jesus teach in The Bible.
One day I asked Uncle Châu gave advice to some young sister workers... Because their appearance not like sister workers in the past.
The answer I receive from uncle Châu just "Now they do not obey my advice any more, they just obey Darrel T. You may speak direct to him..."
Day by day we know that there is a power upon us by OVERSEER !!!.

Since Minhthanhs post about the organizational title "overseer" that seems to have become an important political function within 2x2ism in the last decades, I have also looked back on my beginning years in 2x2ism and realized that this a constructed function has grown radically in importance as 2x2ism has drifted away from the simplicity of the beginning, and into the ultra-tight Pharisee control system that exists today.

As I remember it, the word 'overseer' was never used when I was younger -- 'responsible worker' was more the term -- until that term became used more to differentiate between the all-important political status between companions. It was the dawning of the age of the centrally appointed 'overseers' that a political title became necessary so that lay-people and lower ranking workers would know who the 'big boss' was, that made the rules. (and represented God!!!)

I remember Willie Smiley telling about how he was never 'appointed' by the central ruling bodies of 2x2ism, as is done today -- but he just became the person who others looked up to for advise as the work grew in the area where he worked.

Today it is quite clear that this home-made political power structure in 2x2ism, is more important than truth itself. According to Dale Shultz, even when workers make wrong decisions it is best to follow these 'wrong decisions' because of the worker status that they represent!!

Check this: www.anotherstep.net/summary/summary.4.htm

[Mary]

They call them head worker here. Sounds like the Pope, head of the church but the 2x2s have lots of heads in their church. They seem to forget that the head is Christ. Never heard the word overseer until I came on this board and to think they say the way is the same the world over.

[minhthanh]

Today I'm going to make clear some detail I just have read... Please, be patient with me.
Day by day I'll help you figure out about The Way in my country fifty years ago and nowaday, you will understand.

* They sound like two workers who need plenty of support right now.
Many thanks to think about my local workers... (Uncle Châu now restore in the work, but sending away from the country, under the control of Lyle S)... The overseer supports for him.
Uncle Hoa as he wrote in his heart letter... Take out of his neck "Cái Tròng" (The collar for  one's pull to follow).
Now he continues to labor as before moving from cities to towns and countrysides to help our friends in their Faith. We all beside him and we do believe that Father knoweth what things ye have need of. God will takes care him.

*That was to Uncle Chau's credit that you didn't know there was a position of overseer.
Maybe he doesn't want to let us know... Anyway he works so well in his duty.

*Good to see you here Minhthanh -- Appreciate your openness and courage to post in your own name as well -- This of course adds credibility to the issues that concern you.
First I want to enter website with the name Light Bue (The meaning of my name in English). 
But I think it better to use my Vietnamese name, because a lot of Overseers, workers and friends in many countries know my name. They had visited my own house and received letters from us about the problem in my country... (Uncle Dale.S & Lyle.S, Morris, Darrel, Colin...) Who know about the situation in VN should know me, because I'm the one of their victim right after uncle Châu...
Cuong is a young Vietnamese brother worker, He's very good in computer...
I do hope he will read all these things... He's a very good reporter to Overseer. I'll tell about him later... 

*...sorry that your meetings are being split by these politics.
God... Who knows what happen... and only HIM knows our cry before THEE.

*When Fred Allen could not stay in Vietnam, he asked Cliff Toane to assume the overseership and Châu and Hoa cooperated with him. Cliff was from Canada and was preaching in Hong Kong. In 1992 Cliff came to visit, but couldn’t stay in Vietnam.
Right after Cliff visit and report, uncle Fred wrote a letter on 14th February 1993. By chance we had this coppy...
Here is some in it...
After discussing the Vietnamese question with Cliff Toane,
...We have greatly appreciate all that Hoa and Châu had done there these 18 years since the workers lelf there. Cliff has been very pleased with all he has found...
... So while Cliff can go in and out he will have the general oversight. (Sadly!... after a few visit, he disappear... At last we find out He was back to Canada and married. ) 
... Châu will be responsible if Cliff not able to be there.
Signed,

C.F.W. Allen

Cliff Toane
Robert Doeke

copies of the above forwarded to:

Eldon Tenniswood

Willis Propp

PauI Sharp

Ray Corbett


After reading "VN OVERSIGHT LETTER" of uncle Fred, we wonder "Who is Tennsiswood". After searching on Google, we finding many things about this overseer !...
And then we search "Willis Propp" we had comfort when find out the thing that happen in Alberta Canada, nearly the same in VN. My local worker Uncle Châu had to go out of the work after 42 years labour. With an untrue reason. (I'll mention later).
Who had known uncle Châu should agree with me that... He is a loving and tender worker or overseer.
(My family know uncle Châu' family when I just 1 year old.


*Minhthanh may soon become overwhelmed by the divergence of views on TMB or as Gem once put it, "The Chaos".
I never mind what others said or think... My only one purpose is TELLING THE TRUTH for every one can figure out the picture & understand. And you, by yourself can agree with me that "Soon or later the trouble had to come..."

* Recently I receive an email from one of our member. He wrote "It seems anh Hoa's and those follow him is... " 
We want to remind to you all that.
All the remain friends (more than hunred) not follow uncle Hoa...
Include uncle Hoa, we all under the leading of The Spirit Of God, and follow the step of Jesus Christ in The Bible.


That all for today...
Minh Thanh

[Deleted]

Interesting questions Nathan. I am wondering how a new administration would position themselves to the ungodliness of rejecting, and for the expressions of contempt the present administration has shown to these local workers.

Historically 2 x2 ism NEVER will take responsibiliy for the ungodly messes they create. NEVER!



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