TubeTrainhotmailcouk
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Post by TubeTrainhotmailcouk on Jul 16, 2007 13:29:01 GMT -5
The friends and workers judged me as a really nice single professing boy because I sat at the front of the meetings, attended on time, helped etc..... I know I am not. People in the church judge too much.
Also the workers repeat the same thing over and over. People are interested in the more wealthy and younger people. I had a very trendy car once and people finally actually came up to me and invited me to their house.
The church breaks up people from their marriage and family.
They church has it's own rules like no tv, no jeans to meetings, always look sad and humble.
Meetings and gospels was just a chore/routine and not a desire anymore.
People wanted to know me to get gossip.... the list goes on.
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TubeTrainhotmailcouk
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Post by TubeTrainhotmailcouk on Jul 16, 2007 13:32:55 GMT -5
wanttobewithGod.
Seems like you were just a normal 18year old. Nothing wrong with that.
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Post by mrleo on Jul 16, 2007 14:37:43 GMT -5
It's on my to-do list. And humble, too - don't sell yourself short! lol! In the context of the Bible, or Christendom, or what-have-you, I would agree that you can reasonably assert the question as an either/or proposition. But from any perspective or religious background, you’re going to get at least one response of “What are you talking about?” For me or anyone to say "Yes, he is" or "No, he isn't" presupposes that we have heard of Jesus and God and the Bible and what it says about this issue. But we cannot presuppose that for everyone because not everyone currently living has that knowledge and certainly people from past eras (for instance, before the books of the Bible were written or compiled) were even less likely to have this knowledge. In other words, if there is/was an instance where the question simply doesn’t make sense to the listener due to temporal circumstances, it can’t be a matter of objective truth. But maybe you and I have different understandings of what an objective truth is… The defense I would give to this distinction is that not all the people who choose one or the other do so with your understanding that they are rejecting something that they should accept.
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Post by Zorro on Jul 16, 2007 15:32:21 GMT -5
But maybe you and I have different understandings of what an objective truth is…
I'm guessing that's true. An objective truth is something that is true, regardless of personal, subjective opinion; IE it doesn't matter what you or I think, whether someone has ever heard of him, whether someone has lived in a cave all their life and have no exposure to anything at all - there is an objective truth to this question.....Jesus is either God or he's not. So what's the big deal? The debate then turns to whether objective truth can be know by men, or is every issue to be defined subjectively (individually). Take a 10,000 ft look at this discussion and you'll see that this is really what it's about. Then take a closer look and you'll see that it starts and ends with our personal view of scripture, specifically whether it can lead us to the truth..
The defense I would give to this distinction is that not all the people who choose one or the other do so with your understanding that they are rejecting something that they should accept.
This is true, such is the danger of proof-texting....we may not be aware of scripture necessary to paint the whole picture. What I'm dismayed by is the outright rejection of scripture when the "rest of the story" is presented. I've just seen too many cases of people bringing a lack of understanding to the conversation, which we ALL do at times....truth be known, and basically say "I don't care what scripture says, this is what I've always believed and that's that". Not healthy IMO.
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Post by mrleo on Jul 16, 2007 21:03:59 GMT -5
Okay - I think I see your point. Reducing the issue to an objective truth statement doesn't really achieve anything in itself other than, perhaps, a very broad conclusion - which isn't likely to be of much use to the poor guy in the cave. And yet most people want there to be a truth, other than the certainty of death and taxes, that is both meaningful and that can be known objectively. We ask for so little...
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Post by Zorro on Jul 16, 2007 21:48:26 GMT -5
Okay - I think I see your point. Reducing the issue to an objective truth statement doesn't really achieve anything in itself other than, perhaps, a very broad conclusion - which isn't likely to be of much use to the poor guy in the cave. And yet most people want there to be a truth, other than the certainty of death and taxes, that is both meaningful and that can be known objectively. We ask for so little... Fortunately, there aren't many people living in caves anymore Actually, I think understanding the difference between objective truth and subjective truth accomplishes a great deal. The bottom line is our view of scripture. Do a study sometime of all the things scripture says we can "know" or all the things that are "truth".... it's a long, impressive list. You're right, there are many people that "want there to be a truth", and IMO the problem is when one rejects scripture as the authoritative source of truth, rendering it impossible to find objective, absolute truths......leaving us only with subjective, personal opinions. On one hand, I can see why you might consider "reducing an issue to an objective truth" as rendering it nearly useless, but I don't see it that way at all. Objective truths are the foundations of our deepest fellowship with one another. But relative to your statement "we ask for so little"..... the way I think of that is to understand how simple God's plan of redemption really is. When it comes down to the very core issues of salvation, it's not too complicated. If you think about it that way, God's plan of salvation, as well as the way to Christian fellowship, can be much less complicated than we sometimes make it.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 16, 2007 23:15:24 GMT -5
Hi Zorro, Your post in part- ...the way I think of that is to understand how simple God's plan of redemption really is. When it comes down to the very core issues of salvation, it's not too complicated. If you think about it that way, the way to Christian fellowship can be much less complicated than we sometimes think. I was over reading an old post of mine on the other board where I mentioned in part- I personally have a pretty simple relationship with Jesus/God. I Believe, I have Faith and I rely on Grace to save me. Going by my past, I know that that is the only way for me. I could never 'earn' my way to salvation.
Something that I have noticed is the distinct differences between those who have done a lot of research and reading and who have acquired a vast knowledge of the bible and history. On one hand you have those who after all of their research and reading still refer back to belief, faith and grace as what is going to save them. On the other hand are those who because of their research and reading now have this great 'treasure house' of knowledge, but don't seem to have a clue about what it means.
I'm really hoping that those of us who have simple messages to share, and who want to fellowship without being slammed for our beliefs and thoughts on any subject will be able to share here without fear of having our thoughts shoved down our throats. Just because we don't get into great theological debates does not mean that we do not have great faith, or that our words and thoughts are meaningless. I just wanted to say that I really enjoy reading your posts-and mrleos- We as humans really have made a mess of the simple message that Jesus taught to us. I think the message concerning the importance of Faith is pretty well laid out in Hebrews 11. 1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. Thanks to you both for your posts, Scott
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Post by Zorro on Jul 17, 2007 0:02:55 GMT -5
Scott, Thanks alot. As hard as it may be to believe, I really do try to keep things simple Maybe it would be more accurate to say I try to boil complicated things down to a simple level, one that makes sense to me. I'm an investment advisor and I realized a long time ago that while on one hand the investment world is extremely complex, at the core, understanding the basic fundamentals and building on them is the key to success. So while my job is to understand the complexities of the markets, client communications demand that I explain advanced issues in terms people understand. That's basically the way I feel about scripture. On one hand it's unfathomably deep, rich, and complex. On the other, it's amazing how simple it is. Thanks again
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Post by bornagainst on Jul 17, 2007 0:40:31 GMT -5
There are at least 3 other possibilities for Jesus.
1. Jesus never existing in the first place 2. Jesus being a compilation of many different ‘would be’ messiahs 3. Jesus being an alien
The evidence for an historical Jesus is very flimsy as there are no eyewitness accounts and few other sources we can rely on. Given that even the historical person of Jesus is questionable, then the jump to being a god is, in my opinion, beyond reason.
For a gentle, all angles approach to “who was Jesus” I suggest starting with the Frontline Program: From Jesus to Christ.
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Post by bornagainst on Jul 17, 2007 0:42:12 GMT -5
This statement implies that people need evidence for an absence of belief that the bible is inspired as holy truth. This is misleading. If a claim is made that something is supernatural (ie. inspired by god) then it is up to the claimant to show evidence. Without the inspiration it simply becomes a very old book.
People who do believe the bible is god’s truth need to have justification in order to make sense of the confusion, contradictions, flaws and mythical stories. This justification is called faith.
Do Christians need to justify “not believing” in the Koran? Or the Holy Mahayana Texts? Or the Bhadavad Gita? I suspect that most Christians would automatically assume that these books were not supernaturally inspired. After all there is no evidence that they are. However, for the believers in the texts above, it is obvious to them that their holy book has the answers and is inspired truth. They too have the justification of faith.
An absence of belief in any one god (and therefore god inspired book) sits better with my conscious then accepting that billions of innocent people have/will be going to hell because they believed something different then I did.
Which bring the thread back to the original topic. I left because I could no longer live a lie. I had no personal connection with god despite my belief in him and I felt like a fraud. I not only left the 2x2 way, I finally also let go of blind faith in religious beliefs as, for me, they do not provide satisfactory answers or truths.
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Post by Zorro on Jul 17, 2007 7:42:48 GMT -5
I knew our conversation would be ripe pickings for the liberal, postmodern, New Age, or atheists amongst us.....what took you so long Unfortunately I'm leaving this morning for a week so I can't engage you in dialogue. I will say however that it seems, generally speaking, people with these worldviews presuppose that "faith" means "blind faith" because Christians can produce no evidence to support their beliefs, and eventually they resort to absurdities to make their points. You have displayed all these tendancies immediately. The thing that I find interesting is that Christians are criticized for believing, even though as finite creatures we can't "know" anything omnisciently.....while atheists and liberals somehow escape applying that same reality to themselves, but think that their stance of unbelief is somehow omnisciently true. The result is the arrogance that they accuse Christians of. I'm not painting you with that brush, just a general comment on what I've observed in the past. Perhaps you can show us what a humbler atheist looks likes
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Post by bornagainst on Jul 17, 2007 10:51:01 GMT -5
I’m really glad you are interested. I was pointing out that lots of people “believe” in completely different holy texts inspired by different gods or variations of a god. The fact that there are so many gods and inspired texts from these deities surely raises questions about which one is right. Particularly when we are told that our very life depends on knowing. That there are many faiths all believing they are right shouldn’t be a controversial fact as it is observable all around us. As you rightly say, “Christians (and I would also add people of other religions) have no evidence to support their beliefs”. As I stated, this is where faith comes in. No evidence means that one has to make a giant leap beyond logic and reason. I freely admit that humans don’t have the answers to everything. I certainly don’t have or pretend to have the answers to everything. It just doesn’t make sense to me to fill the gaps of my/our lack of knowledge with a supernatural deity. Particularly when most deities seem very jealous and intend on punishing billions of innocent people with unimaginable torture. I find it fascinating that people of faith think that their supernatural beliefs are off limits for critique. The fact that religious faith affects us all both publicly and privately whether we believe or not gives us all good reason to have a long, hard look. There is no arrogance or wrongness in investigation and constructive doubt. I am concerned that religious faith teaches us that logic, evidence and reason are bad things. My other concern is that belief in one particular faith means that followers then, very naturally, see themselves as “saved” and others as “unsaved”. Once people are named as “other” then exclusion and intolerance can be exploited. I am interested in the power of faith and its impact on individuals and society. Whether that labels me as you have done I’m not sure. I am not out to convince true believers that an absence of belief is a “better” way. I do hope though that if people are questioning or seeking answers outside of faith that they don’t think, or be encouraged to think, they are evil (or arrogant) for doing so.
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Post by puzzled on Jul 17, 2007 12:07:19 GMT -5
Christians are criticized for believing, even though as finite creatures we can't "know" anything omnisciently.....while atheists and liberals somehow escape applying that same reality to themselves, but think that their stance of unbelief is somehow omnisciently true. Am I reading too much into this? Are you of the opinion that Christians are on one side, and liberals are on the opposing side? Help me out here. Is it possible, in your opinion, to be a liberal Christian? Maybe, with all this pre-election hype, I am thinking of the political meaning of the word "liberal", while in fact, you had a different connotation in mind.
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Post by diet coke on Jul 17, 2007 12:15:37 GMT -5
1. Jesus never existing in the first place 2. Jesus being a compilation of many different ‘would be’ messiahs 3. Jesus being an alien One of these three...number 1...deserves consideration (number 2 appears to be true regardless of which of the other six options discussed here are true, and number 3 I reserve the right to ignore for now!). One thing that I would hope we can agree on, but doubt that we will because it does undermine the Bible and that is a no-no, is that the Bible story of Jesus...assuming he did live as a real person and do much that was written...would be close to the same regardless of whether it "really happened" or not. In other words, in order to sell Jesus as Messiah, it was absolutely imperative that he have a virgin birth; be able to do miracles as prophecied; and rise from the dead. Jesus couldn't be accepted at the levels of caesars, heros, or other gods without this. And given the practice of midrash in existence both before and after the life of Jesus, it would be consistent and expected of writers to say these things whether or not they were true. Now, if we strip away the sort of things that would be written about him whether or not they actually happened, what remains is a very extraordinary human life...but with detail enough, and historical verification enough, to convince me that Jesus was a real man, who lived and was crucified. This is a man that I greatly admire and want to learn from.
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Post by mrleo on Jul 18, 2007 2:01:25 GMT -5
There are two problems I see here: 1) How did God's people come to the knowledge of absolute truths before the scriptures were written or compiled - and if they could do so without scripture, why then was it necessary for scripture to exist? 2) An objective truth, whether affirmatively or negatively true, is only meaningful or useful if it's, well, meaningful or useful (to the person who apprehends it). And meaning and usefulness are contingent on such factors as cognitive development, education, experience, time, and place - e.g., in the context of this discussion it is reasonable to point me to "the scriptures" because (among other things) we live in the time and place that we do, and because you know my religious background and can safely assume that I understand that when you say "scriptures" I will correctly infer that you are encouraging me to read the Bible rather than the Koran.
Your claim that Jesus is God and your contention that the proof of your claim can be found in scripture would have to be extensively shored up through definition and exposition in order for it even begin to be meaningful to the guy in the cave. And while it is conceivable that an absolute truth could have serious, eternal implications regardless of one's apprehension of it - it is that notion which underpins one of the main tenets of strict Calvinism (election/non-election), which doctrine I don't even bother to hold in tension, but openly reject.
This may be true but it is also vague - can you give me an example of what you mean?
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Post by survivor on Jul 19, 2007 16:03:44 GMT -5
better question would be why stay??..I spent most of my life in the 'system' that is what it is...years in the 'work'..but God in his mercy drew me out...our relationship must be with the living Christ...then all other relationships will be right...as we give Him Lordship of our life..
do not be afraid..I repeat..do not be afraid to get yourself to a Christian Church that teaches solid Bible truth..they are out there..GO now do not delay...Go listen with all your heart...the Holy Spirit will draw you to Christ and into a most wonderful living relationship..it will thrill your heart and soul..you will know true liberty in Christ..
Get out as fast as you can...don't let human relationships..hold you back that you might think you have in the 'system'..they will drop you like a hot potatoe..but you will move on to deeper fuller relationships with true GODLY people...
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Post by New Ager on Jul 24, 2007 3:35:22 GMT -5
ALL PEOPLE are GOD'S PEOPLE.
All religions are man-made attempts to connect with the divine.
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Post by Monica on Jul 26, 2007 16:16:04 GMT -5
I haven't left yet, but my heart has left. I explain to my close friends that I still profess for my parents. I know they would still love me if I left, but I know how it reflects on them if their children do not follow the way. My brother doesn't profess.
When I was a teeenager Adeline N. came to me at convention and said if she had known I was going to be there she would have asked my parents not to have brought me. I went to the showers and cried for hours. When I came back to the meeting shed a couple in my parents Sunday meeting said, it is good to have you here. I didnt profess for five or six years after that day. But I never forgot the words of that couple and their words were the only words that didn't keep me away forever.
I came back to meetings and professed again. My closest friends and those I love most do not profess and honestly they are more true friends than anyone I met in the way. Becuase of God's dealing with me, and what he has delivered me from, and provided for me my faith is stronger than ever. However my connection to the way is weaker than it ever has been. Interesting how when my faith was the weakest I was the closest to the way, and now that my faith is unwavering there are things I see in the way that I don't feel is right and I don't always feel his spirit at our Sunday meetings.
I don't think I will marry someone professing. That may be when I will make my break. But of course people will say it was because I married "outside" that I lost out....
My parents are firm believers that there are bad guys in the truth just as their are in the world so they are not against me marrying outside but I feel for them the day I leave truth. I know it will hurt them a great deal, and I love them very much.
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Post by diet coke on Jul 26, 2007 17:39:42 GMT -5
My parents are firm believers that there are bad guys in the truth just as their are in the world so they are not against me marrying outside but I feel for them the day I leave truth. I know it will hurt them a great deal, and I love them very much. Monica, thank you for an honest post. A counselor I met with awhile back advised me to live my life for myself, not my parents. He did not understand the pain associated with intense religions such as this, the whole "lost soul" concept, and I didn't try to explain. It can only be felt, not described. I remain in the Truth (though I confess that is not the only reason why).
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 21:26:46 GMT -5
BECAUSE THEY ARE DECEPTIVE AND LACK LOVE FOR OTHERS. BECAUSE THEY MISREPRESENT SCRIPTURES BY OMISSION. BECAUSE THEY, THEY, THEY AND ALL THE REST. IT HAS BEEN PRESENTED ON THIS TMB MANY TIMES OVER.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 27, 2007 9:48:33 GMT -5
ALL PEOPLE are GOD'S PEOPLE. All religions are man-made attempts to connect with the divine. While God made all people, it is clear that all people are not His children. This is a common misconception in the world today, especially among those who think that, because God made us, He won't allow us to go to hell because we're his.
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Post by Sylvestra on Jul 27, 2007 10:16:01 GMT -5
ALL PEOPLE are GOD'S PEOPLE. All religions are man-made attempts to connect with the divine. While God made all people, it is clear that all people are not His children. This is a common misconception in the world today, especially among those who think that, because God made us, He won't allow us to go to hell because we're his. Yes, I am one that totally opposes what you are saying here! In Adam's sin, ALL people became mortal. In Christ, (the second Adam) ALL will be saved from mortality. Period, and everything in between. On the sixth day of creation, God people in their likeness and in their image. These were God's "children". On the eighth day God made Adam who was also His child. How can we not all be His children, made like Him and in His image? Edy
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Post by mrleo on Aug 6, 2007 10:51:15 GMT -5
Edy - this is a very inclusive take on the Bible, and really quite (as you said) the opposite of what most Christians consider orthodox. Would you mind telling me/us a bit more about the journey or the process that brought you to this understanding? Thanks!
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Post by freespirit on Aug 6, 2007 17:04:38 GMT -5
Rebellious: What I was rebelling against were the constraints that the fellowship placed upon me. I was 18 years old and interested in guys, I wanted to wear jeans, I wanted to wear my hair down, go to movies, etc. etc... That's what I meant. The reason I said "no good reason like most seem to have here" is that my reasons are pretty lame when I read others....who just seemed to want to be closer to God and didn't find that where they were, etc....I was just interested in doing what I wanted to do at that time, plain and simple. M. hugs, M. IMO, this is yet another reason why the dress code and other man-made rules have become a curse to us. If it were scriptural, if it was God's will, I'd say lets all dress like that to the nth degree. But... we've focused so much on rebellion being about hair rather than about our heart, that we've just missed the point altogether sometimes. These crazy rules are not scriptural. We can twist it around all we want and say that this means this or that. But it's just twisting. I think that the devil wants to get us all thinking about trivial matters, to get so caught up in looking around at customs and traditions that we forget to look at JESUS, who is our salvation, the author and finisher of our faith. I'm not saying that even without the wacko dress code and these man-made rules we wouldn't have rebellion in our hearts because we're all human and that's just our nature--but we need to be teaching our kids that following God is a blessing, not a curse. We need to show them that God's will is best because HE knows the future, he can guide us and keep us and we never, ever should be afraid to pray for his will for our own lives--this goes so much further than this STUPID radical junk of whether or not someone is or isn't wearing mascara. IMO, teaching man-made rules instead of teaching Jesus is feeding people husks instead of bread. Maybe it's okay for a time, but people are gonna get sick and unhealthy, maybe even die being fed malnutritious junk. In Matt 23, Jesus spoke about this sort of thing--he called them "heavy burdens and grievous to be borne" and said that they "lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers." IMO, someone who does nothing more than vomit up some insanity like "don't ever, ever, ever watch movies" (usually offered while combing the daily newspaper cover-to-cover or playing hours upon hours of scrabble) has precious little to give to people. That's just my opinion of course. And I don't have anything against Scrabble. I'm just sayin'. Now, Jesus... well, Jesus told his followers, that "my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." That's where we can find bread. That's where we can find help and light for our souls. I am so very, very grateful for the workers who preach Jesus and Jesus only, but I'm well aware that not all of them are like this. I think sometimes that some workers are afraid that if they teach only Jesus that the people will be up, out-of-control doing all manner of horrible whatever. But it's not true. When only Jesus and His teachings are taught, then people are MORE inclined to read and pray, more inclined to get in touch with God rather than less. Or at least that's how it works with me. peace to all, freespirit
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Post by Brother Schrock on Aug 6, 2007 17:27:27 GMT -5
I object to your objection Here's a quote from Jesus' own mouth. Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; And another from Paul's. Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
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Post by hawk on Aug 6, 2007 23:40:54 GMT -5
The defense I would give to this distinction is that not all the people who choose one or the other do so with your understanding that they are rejecting something that they should accept. This is true, such is the danger of proof-texting....we may not be aware of scripture necessary to paint the whole picture. What I'm dismayed by is the outright rejection of scripture when the "rest of the story" is presented. I've just seen too many cases of people bringing a lack of understanding to the conversation, which we ALL do at times....truth be known, and basically say "I don't care what scripture says, this is what I've always believed and that's that". Not healthy IMO. Having heard this a time or three, I guess I will respond once more. The 'outright rejection of scripture' may not be so. It is possible, since all of our brains record information differently, that understanding of scripture or perhaps enlightenment from the Spirit opposes another's understanding of scripture (notice I did not say another's enlightenment from the Spirit). First, I have never been known to follow the crowd. Ask anyone in southern MN. heh heh Just because most Christians, or those that belong to some organization, believe a certain way is not a reason at all for me to believe the same. Just because certain people believe scripture is interpreted one way does not mean I am going to follow blindly - many do. "If it is printed on a bumper sticker or Christian bookstore bookmark then it must be true." I believe today, and have for the last six or seven years, that Jesus is not God but is divine and holy and so on and so forth. Why? Because of a study I did a few years ago and from what I believe was divine inspiration. Until He, whichever of the three, tells me otherwise, this is what I believe. Was your idea divinely inspired? I don't know and am not contesting that. I am not saying that everyone who believes opposite of me is led by some other spirit. I have never claimed to have all the answers or know much of anything without any doubt. But of this belief I am content until told otherwise. Second, I have not always believed what I do today (as I have already stated). My understanding is ever-changing and I believe Spirit led. I believe some are led by a spirit and some are led by the Spirit. Who is led by which, I have not a clue and will probably never know. Some folks say they know. Whether or not they do, I don't know. (I am trying to cover further questions here by over-explaining my point.) I do not believe anyone on earth today has all the answers and I believe many are convinced of something so completely but may in fact be mis-led. I am not excluding myself. I have often questioned (I can't believe I am writing this) which spirit is leading at which time. Well, as I wrote many times on other boards and probably this one, that was one of the biggest problems in southern MN - my companion was telling me one thing which I could not believe was of the Spirit and my heart was telling me another which I thought was of the Spirit. I know one thing for sure . . the Spirit is not going to contradict itself. After five years of deliberation, if you will, I decided my companion was not necessarily led by any spirit but of his own mind and tradition. I felt certain that I was led by the Spirit and that the Spirit was using me as a speaking tool. Whether anyone believes that or not does not matter. I believe it. If a person's 'lack of understanding' brings dismay, my suggestion would be to find a cave quickly and take up residence. One could soon become depressed with all the dismay since no two people in all the world understand everything completely equal regardless of the Spirit or a spirit. I know my opinions are unusual and possibly confusing and I am certain one of the dissecters will inform me that I am contradicting myself. But I feel certain of a few things in life whether they are approved by others or not. One certainty is I should have called you rather than post this on here because written words on a message board are not as thought out as they would be in a report. Also, words spoken in a one to one conversation can be corrected immediately if there is question. (Considering erasing this message . . . . ) Oh well . . . Edit: Hours later, I have analyzed my recent being while reading other comments on these boards. My position right now is based on a need for a great amount of money. In other words, I think about money daily. And those who say money does not bring happiness can send theirs to me and let me find out for myself. Then they will experience happiness and I will too for they will be broke and I will have plenty. So regardless of my beliefs in Christianity, large amounts of money is one thing I believe in wholeheartedly. Since the love of money is the root of all evil, everything I said before this can be taken with a grain of salt.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 7, 2007 4:19:04 GMT -5
LOLLLLLLLLL Hawk....lovin' every part of that post. Good to see ya. M. Oh..and ditto on the money thing...
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truth4me
Junior Member
Eph. 6:17 "And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God."
Posts: 56
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Post by truth4me on Aug 7, 2007 18:33:34 GMT -5
God led me out of that 2x2 sect and into a real living Christian, God-fearing, church. Praise God, Lord of Heaven and Earth! Hallelujah, the Lord God Almighty Reigns!
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