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Post by sharonw on Nov 21, 2011 13:37:57 GMT -5
As I've said before, the Trinity concept is not absolutely necessary for a person's salvation.....but at the same time it sure helps one know their beloved Saviour more and that alone induces more worship and love in that person toward our Saviour. It's kind of like a kid can go to school and do all the homework that is assigned but if that kid does not understand that utilizing that schoolwork or seeing where it could be used, just goes through school passing only by a breeze, whereas those who really get into their schoolwork, they've retained much for the rest of their life's needs. JMO in other words, you don't have to accept what i teach, but if you do not accept it, you will be considered spiritually ignorant! hmmm ;D No for the simple reason that Jesus said "Whosoever believeth on me should have everlasting life." That seems to indicate that there are going to be Jesus believeths that stop at that step and go no further. Does it matter in salvation or does it matter to Jesus? I do not get that it does bother Him. It might be more like having faith without works and James spoke to that, because by our works is how we show others our faith, right? Jesus already knows we have faith to believe in Him, the next step is to show others our faith by our works. If people's hearts are right with God, it probably matters little to God what people do with that as long as they keep their hearts right with God. And at the same time God will reward our works AFTER we are resurrected.....I'm sure some of us will get MORE for our works then others but then we might not be as close to Jesus as others also.
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Post by sharonw on Nov 21, 2011 13:41:16 GMT -5
in other words, you don't have to accept what i teach, but if you do not accept it, you will be considered spiritually ignorant! hmmm ;D Trinitarians seem sure that it was God who taught them about it. I wonder why God needs the aid of books and training courses and creeds to wash a trinitarian mindset into people's brains? JO, it was ONLY the bible...now if you have a problem with people getting revelations about what God as instilled in the bible, are you not in the wrong profession? I'm very sure God revealed it to me because I was far more hard-headed about it then you are but at the same time there was troubling about it in my heart and I just felt IF God knew it'd help me to learn more about my Saviour then I was going to open my mind and heart and let God put there what He certainly knew I needed. That's all that it takes is opening hearts and minds for God to reveal some wonderful truths.
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Post by JO on Nov 21, 2011 13:58:24 GMT -5
JO, you think it is the "simplicity in Christ" these people are thinking of when they no longer attend churches? Good question, and I don't claim to know the answer. I'm not thinking of people who "can't be bothered" attending church. I'm thinking of people who would be involved wholeheartedly if they felt God was in it. The "Jesus-plus" of religious systems is not working for many people. Andrew Strom has an interesting take on it: ============================================= This “Out-of-church” phenomenon has now grown so large that books are being written about it. In fact, several years ago I heard an estimate that there are TENS OF THOUSANDS of such Christians just in our largest city (-Auckland) alone. And I believe it is the same right across the Western nations. I have personally come into contact with literally hundreds of such people. The surprising thing is that they are often the most committed kind of Christians – praying, insightful, deep- thinking. Yet they have grown tired of “playing the game” inside our church system and have opted out. Often their involvement goes back many years. In fact, they had commonly been leaders of various kinds.
But now they have left. Why? The church obviously finds this a very difficult thing to explain or deal with. The usual accusations are often trotted out: “So-and-so has been hurt and has a root of bitterness”. Or they are in “rebellion”. Or they are “not a team player”. Or they are “backsliding”.
But if you talk to these people you will often find that they have been sitting in church for years and years, and they simply cannot stand to sit and watch the same old game being played any more. The LACK OF GOD is what gets to them – even in our most “Spirit-filled” churches. WHERE IS GOD IN ALL OF OUR ACTIVITY? Surely this is not the way it is supposed to be?
New fads and programs come and go, but the mediocrity and LACK OF GOD just seem to go on forever. And so quietly, sometimes without anyone even noticing, they slowly slip out the doors – never to return. Some have even told me that they felt God “calling them out”. Others simply felt they couldn’t stay there anymore. The state of the church weighed upon them more than words could say.jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/12003.htm
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Post by JO on Nov 21, 2011 14:31:42 GMT -5
Trinitarians seem sure that it was God who taught them about it. I wonder why God needs the aid of books and training courses and creeds to wash a trinitarian mindset into people's brains? JO, I can honestly say from the bottom of my heart that I do not think any less of you simply because you have a different understanding than I do. Thanks cKirkham. As humans we like to categorise people but there's probably not two people on the planet who believe the exact same thing. You can't switch a belief on and off. We don't wake up one day and say "today I'm going to change my belief".
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Post by emy on Nov 21, 2011 15:19:42 GMT -5
Matt. 20:1-16 seems to prove that wrong. In those verses, there were some laborers who thought they would get more, but the "owner" said all agreed to the same reward.
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Post by emy on Nov 21, 2011 15:20:58 GMT -5
As I've said before, the Trinity concept is not absolutely necessary for a person's salvation.....but at the same time it sure helps one know their beloved Saviour more and that alone induces more worship and love in that person toward our Saviour. It's kind of like a kid can go to school and do all the homework that is assigned but if that kid does not understand that utilizing that schoolwork or seeing where it could be used, just goes through school passing only by a breeze, whereas those who really get into their schoolwork, they've retained much for the rest of their life's needs. JMO in other words, you don't have to accept what i teach, but if you do not accept it, you will be considered spiritually ignorant! hmmm ;D That's pretty much the message I get, too.
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Post by emy on Nov 21, 2011 15:32:59 GMT -5
That's pretty much the message I get, too. from whom? Me? Nate? Sharon? StAnne? I have never heard any of the Trinitarians on this board say this. Not all messages are plainly spoken. It's the thoughts behind the words. Especially that we cannot have as close a relationship to God without accepting the Trinity doctrine.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 16:06:29 GMT -5
Trinitarians seem sure that it was God who taught them about it. I wonder why God needs the aid of books and training courses and creeds to wash a trinitarian mindset into people's brains? JO, I can honestly say from the bottom of my heart that I do not think any less of you simply because you have a different understanding than I do. Do you consider JO equal in Christian brotherhood, ie that you fully accept him as a Christian brother with respect to the different Trinitarian belief?
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Post by ScholarGal on Nov 21, 2011 16:07:26 GMT -5
On this board, I see more attacks coming from the other direction. In the eye of the beholder? It doesn't matter to me what other people believe, it doesn't hinder me in my walk with God. It's interesting that you would say this on a thread where the word "cult" is being defined as any religious organization that doesn't properly teach/believe in the Trinity. (I'm not saying that's your definition of the word "cult", just that it's the definition declared by the original poster.) Calling someone's religious beliefs a "cult" is almost always interpreted as a direct personal attack. Personally, I'm completely ambivalent on the Trinity doctrine. I don't think declaring a belief in the concept of Trinity has anything to do with salvation. It's a shame that so many people had to die over the word...
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Post by Done4now on Nov 21, 2011 16:11:36 GMT -5
JO, I can honestly say from the bottom of my heart that I do not think any less of you simply because you have a different understanding than I do. Do you consider JO equal in Christian brotherhood, ie that you fully accept him as a Christian brother with respect to the different Trinitarian belief? JO is part of the Body--just as I am. I believe I have said this over and over again on TMB. I recently participated in one lengthy thread with TS where I repeated it at least 50 times (TS still doesn't believe me). I don't have time to go through that again today, as I have company coming for Thanksgiving and still have a lot to do. People can either take me at my word, or not.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 16:13:35 GMT -5
JO, thanks for your reply. I believe the reason why fewer people go to church (ten percent decline per decade) is because we have a less Godly world. Some people will dress up their failure to attend a church in righteous prose - there is little tolerance for anything religious anymore.
We are entering what some Americans call the "post religious age"
And it shows in statistics:
highest rate of infidelity, divorce, adultery and non-marital relationships in history greatest use of narcotics in history soaring welfare dependency largest number of people under slavery the industrialization of sex and narcotics a growing tide of contempt for public figures and authority soaring violence (even as entertainment) a tidal wave of narcissism, nihilism, suicide and self-hate
and some copy and past from earlier work I did from largely Australian statistics...
About 47% of children now belong to single parent "families" One third of all Australian teachers plan on quitting their profession because of stress with students. Homeless children have doubled in the past three years Teenage binge drinking doubled in 6 years One quarter of all girls will be sexually assaulted this year 71% increase in sexual violence against children in 9 years. 25% of teenagers have admitted to alcohol abuse. 30.2% of teenagers have sold, consumed or been offered drugs in the past year 9.5% of students have take cocaine in the past year. Children on Care and Protection Orders have risen about 30% in six years. 2008 Queensland figures reveal a 2000% (two thousand) rise in the rate of juvenile sex attacks in less than 10 years. Australian sexual assaults have increased by 20% over the past decade. 25% of Australian children under the age of 14 have had sex. 25% of Australian men who sought DNA confirmation in paternity cases discovered they are not the father. 25% increase in attacks on police and ambulance staff in 8 years . 50% increase in shoplifting 2008-2010. Australia Retail Assoc.. 30% increase in sexual activity and drinking for year 12 girls since 2002. (Australian Research Centre for Sex, Health and Society.) 2500% increase in atheism in 100 years. Three out of five children were exposed to violence, abuse or a criminal victimization in the last year, including 46 percent who had been physically assaulted, 10 percent who had been maltreated by a caregiver, 6 percent who had been sexually victimized, and 10 percent who had witnessed an assault within their family. UNH Crimes against Children Research Center (CCRC) 2009.
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Post by JO on Nov 21, 2011 16:28:02 GMT -5
JO, thanks for your reply. I believe that the reason why fewer people go to church (ten percent decline per decade) is because we have a less Godly world. Some people will dress up their failure to attend a church in righteous prose - but it really shows there is little tolerance for anything religious anymore. I can understand why you would say that, but at the same there is a great spiritual need out there that religious systems (including ours) are not meeting. Perhaps there was a similar need 110 years ago that early workers saw? Bert, I get the feeling you are looking at the majority of society or the majority of religious people and its giving you a pessimistic view. What if 1% of society was feeling their way towards a closer relationship with God? Wouldn't that amount to a great opportunity? God cares for each individual, and so should we. Luke 15:7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
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Post by What Hat on Nov 21, 2011 16:42:21 GMT -5
JO, you think it is the "simplicity in Christ" these people are thinking of when they no longer attend churches? Definitely. Personally, we know of quite a few in this situation.
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Post by What Hat on Nov 21, 2011 16:48:01 GMT -5
We have to be a bit careful with Jesus-plus. Most churches add something to the idea of faith in Jesus, but they'll tell you it's the life of Jesus lived out in you. Faith without works is dead. The problem arises when there is a specific agenda or expectation to the works aspect of the Christian life. I was taught or told that there was no specific agenda among the friends. Is there one? Probably in the minds of some people, and that gives them the privilege of being judgmental. I can't think of a church that doesn't add something though, sect, cult or mainstream. Most churches require a highly dogmatic and doctrinal view of Christ which they call the Trinity doctrine. So salvation = faith in Jesus + belief in Trinity dogma. I guess they are all cults, eh, Irvine? As I've said before, the Trinity concept is not absolutely necessary for a person's salvation.....but at the same time it sure helps one know their beloved Saviour more and that alone induces more worship and love in that person toward our Saviour. It's kind of like a kid can go to school and do all the homework that is assigned but if that kid does not understand that utilizing that schoolwork or seeing where it could be used, just goes through school passing only by a breeze, whereas those who really get into their schoolwork, they've retained much for the rest of their life's needs. JMO That's great, Sharon. All I'm trying to do is show that the "Jesus plus" criteria has wider application than many people think. I think the friends did try for "Jesus only" at one time, but it's easier said than done, and from good beginnings and trying to lay aside weights they now have plenty of extra baggage. But I feel the same about much dogma. I believe that God is working with many individuals in many settings around the world often more in spite of their religion than through any help from it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 16:50:51 GMT -5
Do you consider JO equal in Christian brotherhood, ie that you fully accept him as a Christian brother with respect to the different Trinitarian belief? JO is part of the Body--just as I am. I believe I have said this over and over again on TMB. I recently participated in one lengthy thread with TS where I repeated it at least 50 times (TS still doesn't believe me). I don't have time to go through that again today, as I have company coming for Thanksgiving and still have a lot to do. People can either take me at my word, or not. Thanks, no need for more information if the above means a "yes".
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Post by What Hat on Nov 21, 2011 16:51:52 GMT -5
JO, you think it is the "simplicity in Christ" these people are thinking of when they no longer attend churches? Good question, and I don't claim to know the answer. I'm not thinking of people who "can't be bothered" attending church. I'm thinking of people who would be involved wholeheartedly if they felt God was in it. The "Jesus-plus" of religious systems is not working for many people. Andrew Strom has an interesting take on it: ============================================= This “Out-of-church” phenomenon has now grown so large that books are being written about it. In fact, several years ago I heard an estimate that there are TENS OF THOUSANDS of such Christians just in our largest city (-Auckland) alone. And I believe it is the same right across the Western nations. I have personally come into contact with literally hundreds of such people. The surprising thing is that they are often the most committed kind of Christians – praying, insightful, deep- thinking. Yet they have grown tired of “playing the game” inside our church system and have opted out. Often their involvement goes back many years. In fact, they had commonly been leaders of various kinds.
But now they have left. Why? The church obviously finds this a very difficult thing to explain or deal with. The usual accusations are often trotted out: “So-and-so has been hurt and has a root of bitterness”. Or they are in “rebellion”. Or they are “not a team player”. Or they are “backsliding”.
But if you talk to these people you will often find that they have been sitting in church for years and years, and they simply cannot stand to sit and watch the same old game being played any more. The LACK OF GOD is what gets to them – even in our most “Spirit-filled” churches. WHERE IS GOD IN ALL OF OUR ACTIVITY? Surely this is not the way it is supposed to be?
New fads and programs come and go, but the mediocrity and LACK OF GOD just seem to go on forever. And so quietly, sometimes without anyone even noticing, they slowly slip out the doors – never to return. Some have even told me that they felt God “calling them out”. Others simply felt they couldn’t stay there anymore. The state of the church weighed upon them more than words could say.jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/12003.htmWow, that resonates. And not only with me I have come to learn. I don't feel this is bad news. The work of God requires trust and open-ness. Intermediation through a church system usually imposes one or another kind of agenda that serves man and not God.
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Post by What Hat on Nov 21, 2011 16:55:09 GMT -5
As I've said before, the Trinity concept is not absolutely necessary for a person's salvation.....but at the same time it sure helps one know their beloved Saviour more and that alone induces more worship and love in that person toward our Saviour. It's kind of like a kid can go to school and do all the homework that is assigned but if that kid does not understand that utilizing that schoolwork or seeing where it could be used, just goes through school passing only by a breeze, whereas those who really get into their schoolwork, they've retained much for the rest of their life's needs. JMO in other words, you don't have to accept what i teach, but if you do not accept it, you will be considered spiritually ignorant! hmmm ;D Sharon sometimes comes across as speaking from the lofty heights, but she never means it that way.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 16:55:49 GMT -5
JO, thanks for your reply. I believe the reason why fewer people go to church (ten percent decline per decade) is because we have a less Godly world. Some people will dress up their failure to attend a church in righteous prose - there is little tolerance for anything religious anymore. We are entering what some Americans call the "post religious age" And it shows in statistics: highest rate of infidelity, divorce, adultery and non-marital relationships in history greatest use of narcotics in history soaring welfare dependency largest number of people under slavery the industrialization of sex and narcotics a growing tide of contempt for public figures and authority soaring violence (even as entertainment) a tidal wave of narcissism, nihilism, suicide and self-hate and some copy and past from earlier work I did from largely Australian statistics... About 47% of children now belong to single parent "families" One third of all Australian teachers plan on quitting their profession because of stress with students. Homeless children have doubled in the past three years Teenage binge drinking doubled in 6 years One quarter of all girls will be sexually assaulted this year 71% increase in sexual violence against children in 9 years. 25% of teenagers have admitted to alcohol abuse. 30.2% of teenagers have sold, consumed or been offered drugs in the past year 9.5% of students have take cocaine in the past year. Children on Care and Protection Orders have risen about 30% in six years. 2008 Queensland figures reveal a 2000% (two thousand) rise in the rate of juvenile sex attacks in less than 10 years. Australian sexual assaults have increased by 20% over the past decade. 25% of Australian children under the age of 14 have had sex. 25% of Australian men who sought DNA confirmation in paternity cases discovered they are not the father. 25% increase in attacks on police and ambulance staff in 8 years . 50% increase in shoplifting 2008-2010. Australia Retail Assoc.. 30% increase in sexual activity and drinking for year 12 girls since 2002. (Australian Research Centre for Sex, Health and Society.) 2500% increase in atheism in 100 years. Three out of five children were exposed to violence, abuse or a criminal victimization in the last year, including 46 percent who had been physically assaulted, 10 percent who had been maltreated by a caregiver, 6 percent who had been sexually victimized, and 10 percent who had witnessed an assault within their family. UNH Crimes against Children Research Center (CCRC) 2009. That's an interesting connection. You seem to associate a direct link of decreased church attendance to an alleged increase in a more sinful world. That means you suggest that: More church attendance = better behaved world. or Church attendance = confirmation of salvation? I would be interested in hearing how you manage to make this into a cause and effect relationship. (assuming you are correct that the world is actually going to hell in a handbasket at the moment)
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Post by What Hat on Nov 21, 2011 16:56:42 GMT -5
Do you consider JO equal in Christian brotherhood, ie that you fully accept him as a Christian brother with respect to the different Trinitarian belief? JO is part of the Body--just as I am. I believe I have said this over and over again on TMB. I recently participated in one lengthy thread with TS where I repeated it at least 50 times (TS still doesn't believe me). I don't have time to go through that again today, as I have company coming for Thanksgiving and still have a lot to do. People can either take me at my word, or not. Better eating turkey than talking turkey, eh? Enjoy your dinner; here in Canuckistan we celebrate in early October.
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Post by What Hat on Nov 21, 2011 16:58:07 GMT -5
JO, thanks for your reply. I believe the reason why fewer people go to church (ten percent decline per decade) is because we have a less Godly world. Some people will dress up their failure to attend a church in righteous prose - there is little tolerance for anything religious anymore. We are entering what some Americans call the "post religious age" And it shows in statistics: highest rate of infidelity, divorce, adultery and non-marital relationships in history greatest use of narcotics in history soaring welfare dependency largest number of people under slavery the industrialization of sex and narcotics a growing tide of contempt for public figures and authority soaring violence (even as entertainment) a tidal wave of narcissism, nihilism, suicide and self-hate and some copy and past from earlier work I did from largely Australian statistics... About 47% of children now belong to single parent "families" One third of all Australian teachers plan on quitting their profession because of stress with students. Homeless children have doubled in the past three years Teenage binge drinking doubled in 6 years One quarter of all girls will be sexually assaulted this year 71% increase in sexual violence against children in 9 years. 25% of teenagers have admitted to alcohol abuse. 30.2% of teenagers have sold, consumed or been offered drugs in the past year 9.5% of students have take cocaine in the past year. Children on Care and Protection Orders have risen about 30% in six years. 2008 Queensland figures reveal a 2000% (two thousand) rise in the rate of juvenile sex attacks in less than 10 years. Australian sexual assaults have increased by 20% over the past decade. 25% of Australian children under the age of 14 have had sex. 25% of Australian men who sought DNA confirmation in paternity cases discovered they are not the father. 25% increase in attacks on police and ambulance staff in 8 years . 50% increase in shoplifting 2008-2010. Australia Retail Assoc.. 30% increase in sexual activity and drinking for year 12 girls since 2002. (Australian Research Centre for Sex, Health and Society.) 2500% increase in atheism in 100 years. Three out of five children were exposed to violence, abuse or a criminal victimization in the last year, including 46 percent who had been physically assaulted, 10 percent who had been maltreated by a caregiver, 6 percent who had been sexually victimized, and 10 percent who had witnessed an assault within their family. UNH Crimes against Children Research Center (CCRC) 2009. While all that is true, I believe those who remain as Christian are finding a deeper relationship with Christ than what we saw 40 or 50 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 17:13:06 GMT -5
Clearday. One of the most interesting articles I ever read was about the above figures taken shortly after a famous visit by Billy Graham to Australia in 1959.
We aren't known for our religiosity here, but there was a slight positive change in some social indicators, attributed to Graham's visit.
I took the statistics to be valid, and the conclusion to be reasonable.
Thus: "That means you suggest that: More church attendance = better behaved world."
Yes, generally speaking. Churches promote positive social values which are increasingly held in contempt by mainstream society and the media.
And: "Church attendance = confirmation of salvation?"
Not necessarily. But people going to markets or watching sport on Sunday morning don't strike me as finding a better way to "worship God."
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Post by Done4now on Nov 21, 2011 17:29:10 GMT -5
JO is part of the Body--just as I am. I believe I have said this over and over again on TMB. I recently participated in one lengthy thread with TS where I repeated it at least 50 times (TS still doesn't believe me). I don't have time to go through that again today, as I have company coming for Thanksgiving and still have a lot to do. People can either take me at my word, or not. Thanks, no need for more information if the above means a "yes". JO is my brother and I love him. The fact that he doesn't care for my Church doesn't dim my enthusiasm a bit. At heart I am really a lot like a friendly puppy, although in writing I come off more like a short-tempered lecturer....
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Post by fred on Nov 21, 2011 17:32:58 GMT -5
Heh heh.... ;D
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Post by JO on Nov 21, 2011 17:55:32 GMT -5
Clearday. One of the most interesting articles I ever read was about the above figures taken shortly after a famous visit by Billy Graham to Australia in 1959. We aren't known for our religiosity here, but there was a slight positive change in some social indicators, attributed to Graham's visit. I took the statistics to be valid, and the conclusion to be reasonable. Thus: " That means you suggest that: More church attendance = better behaved world." Yes, generally speaking. Churches promote positive social values which are increasingly held in contempt by mainstream society and the media. And: " Church attendance = confirmation of salvation?" Not necessarily. But people going to markets or watching sport on Sunday morning don't strike me as finding a better way to "worship God." One problem I have with your theory Bert, is that society has been more evil than today during periods in history where church attendance was very high.
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 21, 2011 18:09:50 GMT -5
from whom? Me? Nate? Sharon? StAnne? I have never heard any of the Trinitarians on this board say this. Not all messages are plainly spoken. It's the thoughts behind the words. Especially that we cannot have as close a relationship to God without accepting the Trinity doctrine. I believe in the Trinity. However it really doesn't have any impact on how I view others, nor do I dwell on it or try to get others to believe in it. I see nothing in the bible that tells us that we have to believe in it for salvation. You either are going to believe it or not, and since I see things taught by Jesus as being rather 'simple', I don't try to find hidden meanings in verses or try to twist various passages to convince others how THEY should believe. It is enough for me to simply accept others as brothers and sisters in Christ, and live according to my personal convictions. It has been a long time since I really engaged in the discussions about the Trinity as far as trying to 'prove it' to be true. I think it is simply a conviction that some people have and some people don't. Scott
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Post by sharonw on Nov 21, 2011 18:17:13 GMT -5
We have to be a bit careful with Jesus-plus. Most churches add something to the idea of faith in Jesus, but they'll tell you it's the life of Jesus lived out in you. Faith without works is dead. The problem arises when there is a specific agenda or expectation to the works aspect of the Christian life. I was taught or told that there was no specific agenda among the friends. Is there one? Probably in the minds of some people, and that gives them the privilege of being judgmental. I can't think of a church that doesn't add something though, sect, cult or mainstream. Most churches require a highly dogmatic and doctrinal view of Christ which they call the Trinity doctrine. So salvation = faith in Jesus + belief in Trinity dogma. I guess they are all cults, eh, Irvine? Large numbers of Christians around the world are disillusioned with religious systems, all of which add something to the simplicity that is in Christ. Just what are the characteristics of the "simplicity" in Christ, please! Thank you!
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Post by JO on Nov 21, 2011 18:26:04 GMT -5
Thanks, no need for more information if the above means a "yes". JO is my brother and I love him. The fact that he doesn't care for my Church doesn't dim my enthusiasm a bit. At heart I am really a lot like a friendly puppy, although in writing I come off more like a short-tempered lecturer.... The feeling is mutual cKirkham. Criticising someone's religion would have to be about the quickest way to get his back up, and you've proven to be man enough to discuss issues without taking it personally.
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Post by sharonw on Nov 21, 2011 18:26:53 GMT -5
Matt. 20:1-16 seems to prove that wrong. In those verses, there were some laborers who thought they would get more, but the "owner" said all agreed to the same reward. I think we've discussed this before, I do not see that as the real point of that parable Jesus taught....Jesus went on and said that the owner said this: Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. And according to Paul also it is possible to have salvation and NO rewards because one's works did not stand the test by fire..... So yes, all will be resurrected, those who believeth in Jesus Christ should have everlasting life, and there will be some of those believers who will only get everlasting life because their works did not stand the test by fire. But then again there will be those who believeth on Jesus Christ who's works will stand the test by fire, some a hundredfold, some fifty and some one....so yes, some will get more rewards then another...is it not up to the righteous Judge to do with His own as He wills?
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