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Post by Observing on Feb 13, 2007 3:20:43 GMT -5
James dURSTON: Therefore we are at total liberty to meet wherever we want as far as the physical location. Wether it is in a tent or a church building or in your best room at home or in a barn or a hall or a school or out in the open, the physical place is not of relevance – it does not matter!!
I think you have made the point. It doesn't matter where people meet.
In homes. In barns. In tents. In town halls. In Odd Fellows halls. In YMCA buildings. In churches.
I have been to meetings in all of the above so I guess you have proved your point. The F&W will meet and where ever 2 or 3 are gathered there is the church.
For Sunday morning meetings - the home is preferred.
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Post by Observing on Feb 13, 2007 3:24:31 GMT -5
James dURSTON There is no where in the New Testament scripture that does not agree with the above. If you believe this is incorrect now is the time to Biblically prove different.[/color]
No there isn't.
From what you have said - the F&W to claim that God does not dwell in buildings. That is what the Bible says.
Where do you differ?
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Post by James Durston on Feb 13, 2007 4:26:22 GMT -5
I remember when I posted the Lords prayer. This is a beautiful prayer (it can be said differently but that is not the point) and is definitely something to get excited about. You see you don’t have to be in the meetings and follow the Workers and Friends to be saved, it’s between you and Jesus and you can speak to God, acknowledging what a sinful person you have been, repent and ask Jesus into your life. It is as simple as that! That is how easy it is to have salvation. It’s definitely something to get excited about after being involved in the doctrine of the Friends and Workers. It’s liberating! It’s freedom! It is awesome…..but do you know what our friend Observing referred to it as?...... “James, you believe that this incantation has magical properties that will ensure that anyone who recites it will be saved”.
Do you realise that incantations and magical properties are directly involved with satan?..........Do all you ‘knowitalls’ realise that your friend MR Observing has blasphemed against God??
Make no mistake about it, Observing by his own admissions (others included) is on his way to hell!!! Mr Observing is not saved and does not understand salvation just like Geoff (although I am not saying he is not saved) ….confused and blinded—Yes!
Don’t get pissed off with me Geoff! I never heard you or anyone else speak out on this!!!
You are in a cult that is full of rules and regulations and you don’t understand the simplicity of salvation.
I am showing everyone that reads this the reasons why this is a false religion. I have not heard one passionate and enthusiastic, “Yes I agree with that, that is right”……The reason for this is that you are blind by the cult you are in.
All I am doing at this stage is highlighting the “unspoken” doctrines of the Friends and Workers and trying to show you they are incorrect. That is all!
Geoff there is no doubt about it, you are blinded. You need to unreservedly admit the truths about the religion you are in. That is the least any of you guys can do. As far as being saved --- well I need to talk more to you if you don’t mind.
I will say one more thing. Fellowshipping with the Friends and Workers is like playing Russian roulette with your salvation except the chamber is completely full minus one slot!
Yes we are talking about the same man Geoff.
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Post by Geoff on Feb 13, 2007 4:57:06 GMT -5
James
"Don’t get pissed off with me Geoff! I never heard you or anyone else speak out on this!!! "
I don't understand this comment. Speak out about what? (and I don't appreciate that language coming from a Christian.)
You are still jumping to conclusions that you have no right to jump to, with the limited information you have to hand.
You claim that: I need to "unreservedly admit the truther about the religion I'm in". Do you know for a fact that I have not?
You claim that I do not understand salvation ("...does not understand salvation just like Geoff ...") How do you know that? who have you asked about my views on this? Not me. So how do you know?
You said : "...You see you don’t have to be in the meetings and follow the Workers and Friends to be saved..." Did I claim that you did? No I didn't. So it would be untruthful to claim that I did, and unreasonable to assume that I did without any KNOWLEDGE of the situation.
I note that you have often copied parts of your previous posts to repeat them. Allow me to do the same once.
In reply #177 above I said "Now I hope that I've done you the courtesy of answering, directly, the questions you have put to me, but I note that most of my questions to you go unanswered.
Can I repeat one of them, in the hope that you might give me a straight answer?
Do you think that I am unsaved because of where I choose to fellowship? "
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Post by James Durston on Feb 13, 2007 5:08:06 GMT -5
Oh my goodness!! Now I know that I have been right all the way along! I am not jumping to conclusion Geoff, I can read you like a book. You are right in your own eyes Geoff! Get of your high horse! In fact I can not be bothered to waste any more time on you.
Do me one favour Geoff and admit the doctrines of this faith that you are in because that is all I am trying to do. Once we admit the doctrines of the Friends, Workers & Meetings we can move forward. The thing is though Geoff, just like most of you other cowardly and pathetic readers you’re not man enough!!
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Post by Geoff on Feb 13, 2007 6:38:28 GMT -5
James
Just what do you say that you read in my book?
What do you claim I believe that you say is wrong? Name one or two points.
(I note you still do not have the courtesy to answer the question)
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Post by James Durston on Feb 13, 2007 7:44:24 GMT -5
Two points have been raised so far, as far as the Friends, Workers and meetings, that do not lead the individual into the freedom that God wants every one of His believers to have.
The first one is that the Friends, Workers and meetings believe that you have to be in their way for the individual to have salvation. This is POINT ONE.
POINT TWO is that they believe you can not meet in church buildings because they are evil.
Although there are those that will deny this, the fact is I have sufficiently proved these two points. Both are foundational doctrines of the Friends & Workers and both are against the Word of God. On my next post I will post POINT THREE
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Post by to geoff on Feb 13, 2007 7:47:20 GMT -5
James Just what do you say that you read in my book? What do you claim I believe that you say is wrong? Name one or two points. (I note you still do not have the courtesy to answer the question) Geoff, dont let this durstan character rile you, he cannot possibly be serious with his claims of knowing who is saved, being the only one who can interpret the bible corrrectly, knowing all about people on the basis of a few emails, knowing all about the 2x2 way and, of course, identifying and naming observer as a demon from hell who is going back there laugh at this idiot and hopefully he'll shut up.
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Post by CP on Feb 13, 2007 7:53:50 GMT -5
I am 1 of a few that believe you don't have to be in our meetings to be the only ones saved. I do know that there are a lot that do believe this is the only way. I happen to disagree with that. I don't care what church or religion you are. If you believe in God and serve Him. That is what is right regardless of where you go to meetings. If I wanted to get picky I could find something wrong with people in every church. Every church has people that attend that has a service to God that you could say is not right. There are alot of sinners that attend. Is it us to be judging? No I think there is only 1 way and that is through God whether you meet in homes, churches, barns,etc.
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Post by CP on Feb 13, 2007 7:56:47 GMT -5
Saying what I said, I can't think of better way to raise my children than in this way. There are things that I don't agree with but you will find that everywhere. If you are strong enough it won't matter what anyone says about you or the way that you serve. We all choose to serve in our own way. No one knows for sure what goes on behind closed doors.
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Post by las logged out on Feb 13, 2007 8:00:40 GMT -5
I am 1 of a few that believe you don't have to be in our meetings to be the only ones saved. I do know that there are a lot that do believe this is the only way. I happen to disagree with that. I don't care what church or religion you are. If you believe in God and serve Him. That is what is right regardless of where you go to meetings. If I wanted to get picky I could find something wrong with people in every church. Every church has people that attend that has a service to God that you could say is not right. There are alot of sinners that attend. Is it us to be judging? No I think there is only 1 way and that is through God whether you meet in homes, churches, barns,etc. Yes you are sure correct all are defective but you would think ownership would eventually be the normal thing to do take ownership admit to earlier accounts.The 2x2s still do not own up despite overwhelming info all over the Internet. My question to original poster is this right despite the fact that none are perfect
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Post by las logged out on Feb 13, 2007 8:02:58 GMT -5
Saying what I said, I can't think of better way to raise my children than in this way. There are things that I don't agree with but you will find that everywhere. If you are strong enough it won't matter what anyone says about you or the way that you serve. We all choose to serve in our own way. No one knows for sure what goes on behind closed doors. I will agree with this- that it might be good to have initial contact with the 2x2 gospel just to get started no more then 3-4 yrs then leave
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Post by Geoff on Feb 13, 2007 8:10:17 GMT -5
CP thanks for your thoughts. On the points you raised, we are in agreement.
I do not think that church buildings are evil, or that it is actually wrong to worship in them, even though I choose not to. James Durstan has assumed that I do, as he seems to put all 2x2s in the same box saying that all must be exactly the same. Clearly that is an error. I also , like you CP do not think that salvation is exclusive to our denomination, even if I have been assumed to do so by JD. Like you, I admit that the majority view is as described (exclusive and no "temples"), but its not a universal belief.
To the poster of reply #185, I'm not "riled", though thanks for your concern. I think that logical reasoned discussion is healthy. Our denomination does not have a monopoly on self righteousness and exclusivity, seems its prevalent in many places, perhaps even Tasmania!
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Post by scpr on Feb 13, 2007 8:24:18 GMT -5
Oh my goodness!! Now I know that I have been right all the way along! I am not jumping to conclusion Geoff, I can read you like a book. You are right in your own eyes Geoff! Get of your high horse! In fact I can not be bothered to waste any more time on you.
Do me one favour Geoff and admit the doctrines of this faith that you are in because that is all I am trying to do. Once we admit the doctrines of the Friends, Workers & Meetings we can move forward. The thing is though Geoff, just like most of you other cowardly and pathetic readers you’re not man enough!!
I'm a silly, cowardly and pathetic reader and I'd like to point out to you James that personal insults are not tolerated on this board.
This is one of the rudest, most obnoxious posts I have ever read here.
It really surprises me since I've met you before and you were nice then, what changed?
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Post by kelvin on Feb 13, 2007 9:25:26 GMT -5
[quote author=scpr board=general thread=1170721357 post=1171373058
This is one of the rudest, most obnoxious posts I have ever read here. [/quote]
I agree. I've heard of the Tasmanian Devil, but thought it was extinct. This level of arrogance is not Christian.
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Post by CP on Feb 13, 2007 9:39:59 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2007 9:42:15 GMT -5
quote - "I've heard of the Tasmanian Devil, but thought it was extinct."
Tassy Devils are doing fine. Well, some are doing fine.
p.s. Are you thinking of the Tassy Tiger? We have its DNA, so watch this space!
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Post by CherieKropp on Feb 13, 2007 10:32:40 GMT -5
To CP RE: Saying what I said, I can't think of better way to raise my children than in this way.
***Do you have any daughters? the "way" can be very hard on daughters.
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Post by CP on Feb 13, 2007 10:53:48 GMT -5
Cherie I do have a daughter but she is no longer with us. I know that most people are strict on girls and how they dress and all. I am thinking that I am more scared of raising a girl that is around other girls that dont have similar beliefs because they tend to be more wild. I am worried about raising a daughter. Hopefully one day I can accept that challenge. The only strict rule I would have is that they don't date until they are 30 because I know what guys are like.
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Post by hmmmmm on Feb 13, 2007 11:29:48 GMT -5
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Post by James Durston on Feb 13, 2007 14:10:37 GMT -5
Well I can see that I have stired the pot and thats fine with me. Its hard on every one raised in this way, I have two little girls and a boy. They are so blessed not being in the meetings. They love Jesus, are not ashamed of Him and at the age of two where prayeing for one another. You are not going to like this comment some of you but children raised in this way leads to heart ache and pain and is against Gods Word!
If your offended you need to build a bridge and get over it! This is relity and a chance for some of you to own up to the overall doctrines of your faith
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Post by haha roflol on Feb 13, 2007 14:59:57 GMT -5
Well I can see that I have stired the pot and thats fine with me. Its hard on every one raised in this way, I have two little girls and a boy. They are so blessed not being in the meetings. They love Jesus, are not ashamed of Him and at the age of two where prayeing for one another. You are not going to like this comment some of you but children raised in this way leads to heart ache and pain and is against Gods Word! If your offended you need to build a bridge and get over it! This is relity and a chance for some of you to own up to the overall doctrines of your faith Now, we wait in anticipation of your next installment:
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Post by Geoff on Feb 13, 2007 15:47:11 GMT -5
Well I can see that I too have stirred a pot, though I'm not sure whats in that pot. Its not hard on EVERYONE raised in this way. That depends on the parents and what they demand of the children, and on what they allow others to demand. In many cases thats no harder than in any other denomination. In some cases (many cases) its VERY hard on children.
Children raised to truly know their Lord, whatever denomination they are in do not get led to pain and heartache. What is for or against Gods Word is dependent on what is actually taught. It would wrong to say that ALL children raised in a certain country are deprived just because they are raised in that country. Just as surely as there are exceptions to that, there are exceptions to how children are raised in any denomination.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Feb 13, 2007 15:51:11 GMT -5
I think "the way" is hard on our daughters, and no way is probably even harder on our daughters.
I grew up thinking that the rules were much too strict and ridiculous. Even worse, my parents didn't really agree with them totally, but refused to give in because they were afraid of what people would think... OR.. maybe meeting would be removed from their home. To stomp a child's personality and creativity over rules you don't agree with is pretty ridiculous.
My parents finally gave in and allowed me to wear pants, and from there, I began to wear a little makeup, and trim my hair. I was in junior high at that time. Most of the girls I hung around with in meetings were allowed to wear pants.. but several of them came from "divided homes".
I think there is a happy medium. I shelter my children... and I always will. I surround them with children from families who are like minded.
There's no telling what children from good Christian homes will grow up to be. Some of my good friends from "good professing families" got into drugs, and invited me to try them during convention. Others slept around, some partied quite a bit...
You just don't know really, but you give it your best.
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Post by JAmes Durston on Feb 13, 2007 18:21:58 GMT -5
The least you Friends & Workers can do is be open and admit the doctrines of your faith. ...but you cant because you are liars!...you willfully choose to ignore the truth and find argument in other issues.
Come on guys, I spent 34 years in this way that you are in, let us at least as has been posted, get on and be a bit honest with each other. I want to read all your admissions on these two points. ..you are pretty good at talking about other things!
The two points are: POINT ONE; You have to be in this way to be saved.
POINT TWO is: You do not meet in churchy looking buildings because God does not dwell there and they are evil!
I am not interested in individual variations, I am talking about the overall accepted beliefs, so come on guys the least you can do is admit the truth. I want all you posters to declare the truth now! (incuding the quiet ones).
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Post by gregleepluggedin on Feb 13, 2007 18:57:42 GMT -5
The two points you have stated, James, are the allowed teachings. People may have others thoughts ot convictions, but by and large most of those would know that expressing them would cause disharmony in the church. Discussing them might even lead to silencing (being labeled) or getting the boot.
That being said, that has been said here for a couple years or so and on other places.
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Post by James Durston on Feb 13, 2007 19:45:06 GMT -5
I appreciate your honesty. ...but by that admision...(and you are not going to like this if you are a Friend or Worker) constitutes a hallmark of a cult.....No doubt about it!
But I do appreciate your honesty and if you are a Friend or Worker its not easy being honest in that enviroment!
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Post by gregleepluggedin on Feb 13, 2007 21:07:51 GMT -5
I appreciate your honesty. ...but by that admision...(and you are not going to like this if you are a Friend or Worker) constitutes a hallmark of a cult..... No doubt about it!But I do appreciate your honesty and if you are a Friend or Worker its not easy being honest in that enviroment!I made no admission and I am not a worker or one of their friends. Still, I do not think they are a cult. I think they are a pseudo-christian sect and are much like a secret club.
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