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Post by ghost on Aug 23, 2011 12:10:24 GMT -5
And just to close the circle I have to say that I never asked to join the TLC. In Aug 15, 2009 Cherie sent me the following pm:
So, they cannot pretend that I asked to be part of the company, and endanger their peace by experssing my sceptic's view. I had already expressed this view time and time again on TMB. And when I accepted Cherie's invitation there was a big discussion in TLC on whether the board should accept people, who, after their 2x2 experience decided to become atheists. At a certain point in time I was even the subject of a strong preaching drive by a «very good Christian» who started bullying me and spammed the whole board when I asked some questions he could not answer.
If they treat in that unacceptable way their guests you can imagine what they can inflict on people who want to be part of their exclusive group ... Pathetic ...
P.S. Well Cherie, after two years I did see the difference ...
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 23, 2011 13:27:20 GMT -5
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 23, 2011 13:29:19 GMT -5
I don't let the bull in my china closet. It isn't good for the dishes, and it just makes the bull mad. Same with TLC.  E |
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Post by rational on Aug 23, 2011 13:59:37 GMT -5
Of course it was my experience. Ilylo does not like anyone to challenge him and point out errors in his statements. |
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Post by rational on Aug 23, 2011 14:05:28 GMT -5
I don't let the bull in my china closet. It isn't good for the dishes, and it just makes the bull mad. Some with TLC. E If you do not like being questioned and cannot defend your statements it is probably best to exclude anyone who does. Excluding the opposition has proved to be an effective way of maintaining absolute control. Perhaps a better metaphor would be: If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 23, 2011 14:18:27 GMT -5
ilylo is staying out of the kitchen (or the TMB china shop), unless he's got another name... ~ Quite a rant there, I don't get why Sharon's on it?? The rest I can understand  but whatever did Sharon do to deserve that?  |
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 23, 2011 16:36:27 GMT -5
I don't let the bull in my china closet. It isn't good for the dishes, and it just makes the bull mad. Some with TLC. E If you do not like being questioned and cannot defend your statements it is probably best to exclude anyone who does. Excluding the opposition has proved to be an effective way of maintaining absolute control. Perhaps a better metaphor would be: If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. But, see, what you're not getting is that the TLC doesn't allow the kitchen to "get hot". That way the tender ones and the touchy ones don't have to get out. I think that is the whole point! |
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Post by rational on Aug 23, 2011 16:46:12 GMT -5
But, see, what you're not getting is that the TLC doesn't allow the kitchen to "get hot". That way the tender ones and the touchy ones don't have to get out. I think that is the whole point! And I am sure there are those who love the mutual stroking and are not all that interested in reality. |
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Post by kencoolidge on Aug 23, 2011 16:54:31 GMT -5
But, see, what you're not getting is that the TLC doesn't allow the kitchen to "get hot". That way the tender ones and the touchy ones don't have to get out. I think that is the whole point! And I am sure there are those who love the mutual stroking and are not all that interested in reality. Rational To each his own. For those who are rational and love your version of reality I suggest you creating your own board and they will havw a home so to speak ken |
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 23, 2011 20:28:27 GMT -5
But, see, what you're not getting is that the TLC doesn't allow the kitchen to "get hot". That way the tender ones and the touchy ones don't have to get out. I think that is the whole point! I have to disagree- TLC has been, at times, a little to "hot" for me- but, like someone posted, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I also feel if I can't say anything nice, then I probably shouldn't say anything at all. And, I also will say that if I feel that someone is only interested in attacking and prodding me, I will bow out because I'm not interested in playing that game. I HAVE experienced that on TLC, but those moments have been few and far between, maybe because I try to stay out of those situations best I can. |
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Post by Child of God on Aug 23, 2011 20:40:22 GMT -5
Ever seen a plant that hasn't had any challenges?
Heat, drought, wind, drowning rain? It is a weak plant at best. We humans are the same way... we need a little difficulty in life to become the best that we can be.
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Post by imnx2 on Aug 23, 2011 20:48:59 GMT -5
Ever seen a plant that hasn't had any challenges? Heat, drought, wind, drowning rain? It is a weak plant at best. We humans are the same way... we need a little difficulty in life to become the best that we can be. "Little" being not much, I suppose, as one considers the difficulties and status of a couple billion or so. |
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 23, 2011 21:23:36 GMT -5
But, see, what you're not getting is that the TLC doesn't allow the kitchen to "get hot". That way the tender ones and the touchy ones don't have to get out. I think that is the whole point! And I am sure there are those who love the mutual stroking and are not all that interested in reality. ....not necessarily both. Mutual stroking can take place in reality |
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 23, 2011 21:27:32 GMT -5
But, see, what you're not getting is that the TLC doesn't allow the kitchen to "get hot". That way the tender ones and the touchy ones don't have to get out. I think that is the whole point! I have to disagree- TLC has been, at times, a little to "hot" for me- but, like someone posted, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I also feel if I can't say anything nice, then I probably shouldn't say anything at all. And, I also will say that if I feel that someone is only interested in attacking and prodding me, I will bow out because I'm not interested in playing that game. I HAVE experienced that on TLC, but those moments have been few and far between, maybe because I try to stay out of those situations best I can. But, w.o.e, I think your response to my post proves exactly what I'm saying. I think you expect the heat over here at TMB, and here you are....but you don't expect it at TLC and you bow out. That is what makes it a nice place because we don't have to defend our positions stringently like people do here. Edy |
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Post by faune on Aug 23, 2011 21:27:33 GMT -5
Why would they become exactly what they criticise? I don't get it. Jesse, this is a prime example of taking a portion of what is written to make a point. People often do that with scripture as well. I said: "Is it possible that there are those who left the fellowship who refuse to have anything to do with those who are still inside (burned their bridges so to speak) because they do not like the judgemental spirit of many inside the fellowship? And at the same time there are those inside the fellowship who refuse to have anything to do with those who left the meeting (burned those bridges) because they believe those who left are corrupted and they don't want to be influenced or "drawn out" by them?" You are being dishonest if you think there are NOT many inside of the fellowship who judge other Christians outside as being confused, lost or deceived. Likewise those who have left and cling to the belief that everyone who continues to have fellowship in the 2x2 fellowship is deceived or lost or confused are just as guilty! So, yes you are correct in saying that those who judge all those inside are hypocritical (not exactly your words but basically your concept). Sadly some who are part of the 2x2 fellowship will not even consider joining in on spiritual conversations or sharing in prayer meetings with those outside of their fellowship as a result of preconceived notions about "the world". So they live with a limited view of things. And some of them, prior to making their home in the 2x2 fellowship, had no experience with other sincere Christians previously so they are comparing those in the fellowship with those who had no regard for God. Not a fair comparison - do you think? Sherbear ~ You made some good points above. However, when it comes to our salvation, we must make sure we are putting our trust in the right source ~ Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice on the Cross for our sins, not some ideology that says belonging to the 2x2's and professing through the workers is a prerequisite of our salvation. When we put our faith in a system to save us and not Jesus Christ alone, we have missed the boat, in my personal opinion?  Since this is the basic of the exclusive doctrine found within the 2x2's ~ believing in the Perfect Way presented by the workers ~ I feel we have a definite problem with the real Gospel Message? Also, people who have made a profession of faith outside of the 2x2's, are told they must renounce their previous profession to be a member of this group. Now, if this group is upholding another Jesus and a different gospel message than found in God's Word, how can your salvation be secure within such a system? Personally, in my 30 years within this fellowship, I never heard of our redemption being connected to Jesus and His sacrifice for our sins on the Cross and the working of grace transforming our lives from the inside out. Also, I never heard of Jesus' inputed righteousness to our account as a result of accepting Him as Lord and Saviour in our lives and embracing His free gift of grace. Instead, it was all about works and "fitting in" to the system, and jumping through hoops to gain the workers' approval by abiding by all the unwritten rules within the Way, and still you had no assurance of your salvation when all was said and done.  This was the fellowship I remembered and left for something far better and doctrinally more sound and satisfying. |
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Post by faune on Aug 23, 2011 21:49:09 GMT -5
I think you would find TLC is not what most innies think. We actually do have conversations about the things we loved and enjoyed about meetings and conventions... special memories, etc. It isn't this huge meeting-bashing place people envision. Mandy ~ I can vouch for your response by what I saw recently on TLC relating to convention experiences. People are openminded enough to comment on the things they liked as well as the things that they found very perplexing to them without intimidation. People respect one another's views and have sensitivity to the feelings of others. That speaks to me of a Christian spirit and something to be embraced and not discredited. I appreciate the fact that "Ilylo" gets involved where comments are bordering on creating strife and not edifying in the least. That's the job of an Administrator and I have no problem with his concern for keeping the peace and integrity of the Board. People can be respectful and show courtesy regardless of a difference of opinion and that's one thing I value on TLC. Being more interested in creating friction and initiating an argument over trivia serves no purpose at all, IMHO? Being in an environment that promotes a "safe place" to vent and share, makes it a welcoming place to congregate, be ourselves, and to give and receive the encouragement we need from one another ~ and that's what makes TLC special and unique in a nutshell. |
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Post by rational on Aug 23, 2011 23:20:19 GMT -5
I agree. Thanks Ken, for your suggestion. |
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Post by lazarus66 on Aug 23, 2011 23:28:43 GMT -5
I have to chuckle a little at this point.
Ghost and Rational complaining about not being accepted or allowed to remain on TLC.
Have either of you heard of a "track record".
I have yet to see anyone agree with you, Rational and like I said in my post over in your "What if" about if God asked you to do something you would, you ignored my post. You would be better off on some intellectual site that caters to those that live in their own world. I have a brother you can take with you as he is just like you. Real intelligent and really stupid.
Ghost, I just don't see why you even want to be on TLC.
Oh well, I guess if you can't say something nice say it here? Dale/Pianoman/Lazarus66
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Post by emy on Aug 23, 2011 23:32:28 GMT -5
I have to chuckle a little at this point. Ghost and Rational complaining about not being accepted or allowed to remain on TLC. Have either of you heard of a "track record". I have yet to see anyone agree with you, Rational and like I said in my post over in your "What if" about if God asked you to do something you would, you ignored my post. You would be better off on some intellectual site that caters to those that live in their own world. I have a brother you can take with you as he is just like you. Real intelligent and really stupid. Ghost, I just don't see why you even want to be on TLC. Oh well, I guess if you can't say something nice say it here? Dale/Pianoman/Lazarus66 I often agree with Rational. I don't always post it, because it might get old for him after awhile. According to TS that proves we f&w are Godless atheists. |
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Post by pinky on Aug 24, 2011 1:48:24 GMT -5
I've got to say that where my journey is leading me of late, I can see that the questions Rational asks are often the hard questions that Christians don't like to ask themselves, nor think about. There is a lot of squirming, justification and even mental gymnastics from the few who do respond, I can only conclude that Christians in general don't like to think, and don't want to really consider the hard questions. People invest a lot in their beliefs, and don't want to question them too much, it seems.
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Post by ghost on Aug 24, 2011 2:48:57 GMT -5
I have to chuckle a little at this point. Ghost and Rational complaining about not being accepted or allowed to remain on TLC. Have either of you heard of a "track record". I have yet to see anyone agree with you, Rational and like I said in my post over in your "What if" about if God asked you to do something you would, you ignored my post. You would be better off on some intellectual site that caters to those that live in their own world. I have a brother you can take with you as he is just like you. Real intelligent and really stupid. Ghost, I just don't see why you even want to be on TLC. Oh well, I guess if you can't say something nice say it here? Dale/Pianoman/Lazarus66 I did not complain about not being accepted. I was invited to join in the first place. Then ilylo changed the rules again and again and even applied these rules in an unjust, unfounded and arbitrary way. I enjoyed reading some experiences on TLC and when I had the time I commented in a way that underlined the inconsistencies of the bible and the religious attitude of the zealots. And if I posted here on this thread it was to show that TLC is not the nirvana place ilylo pretends it to be - just another religious dictatorship in the name of christ ... |
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Post by Rob O on Aug 24, 2011 3:41:50 GMT -5
I have yet to see anyone agree with you, Rational I agree with rational about as much as I agree with anyone on here. I do find that rational asks questions that should be asked and should be given thought. |
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Post by rational on Aug 24, 2011 10:31:46 GMT -5
I have to chuckle a little at this point. Ghost and Rational complaining about not being accepted or allowed to remain on TLC. I have never complained. I submitted a request and it was rejected without comment, before the 'rules' for rejection were standardized. Yes, and I did mention that I have pointed out errors ilylo has made. And, no, I am not into the mutual stroking that seems so desirable in TLC. I am not posting for agreement. Facts are not determined by popular vote. It sounds like you could benefit from the use of the Ignore feature. You might want to check with Johnny on the meanings of those words. |
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Post by sharonw on Aug 24, 2011 10:39:53 GMT -5
I have to chuckle a little at this point. Ghost and Rational complaining about not being accepted or allowed to remain on TLC. Have either of you heard of a "track record". I have yet to see anyone agree with you, Rational and like I said in my post over in your "What if" about if God asked you to do something you would, you ignored my post. You would be better off on some intellectual site that caters to those that live in their own world. I have a brother you can take with you as he is just like you. Real intelligent and really stupid. Ghost, I just don't see why you even want to be on TLC. Oh well, I guess if you can't say something nice say it here? Dale/Pianoman/Lazarus66 I often agree with Rational. I don't always post it, because it might get old for him after awhile. According to TS that proves we f&w are Godless atheists. I agreed with Rational once.;.don't remember thwe particulars...but sure shocked me and I'm sure it shocked Rational! He and I have gone around and around and around for several years now~ ;D |
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Post by rational on Aug 24, 2011 15:24:31 GMT -5
I agreed with Rational once.; Sounds like a line from Johnny Dangerously: Danny Vermin: You shouldn't hang me on a hook, Johnny. My father hung me on a hook once. Once!Actually, I hate to shock you but we have agreed more times that that. Think of the posts you have made where I didn't question what you were posting. Oh I don't think we have gone around and around and around. We have gone around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around! |
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Post by lazarus66 on Aug 24, 2011 20:05:06 GMT -5
Well, you can enjoy. I have better things to do than ramble on with this nonsense. Adios
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Post by rational on Aug 24, 2011 22:43:36 GMT -5
Well, you can enjoy. I have better things to do than ramble on with this nonsense. Adios OK. Interesting that it becomes 'nonsense' right after the personal attack! |
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Post by ts on Aug 24, 2011 23:44:17 GMT -5
Being logical and rational is easy when you exclude the Holy Spirit.
Reality is the Red Sea opening up and the Children of Israel walking on dry land.
Reality is Jesus being raised from the dead.
Reality is the dead being raised today and the sick being healed.
Denying these things to "make things real" is easy. I agree that the faith of the workers and friends is weak in regard to the power of God and His work today. They have a form of Godliness and deny the power thereof....To the point that they have excluded themselves from fellowship with other parts of the body of Christ.
This spirit that is among the friends and workers is definitely corrupting them.
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E
but whatever did Sharon do to deserve that? 
Since this is the basic of the exclusive doctrine found within the 2x2's ~ believing in the Perfect Way presented by the workers ~ I feel we have a definite problem with the real Gospel Message? Also, people who have made a profession of faith outside of the 2x2's, are told they must renounce their previous profession to be a member of this group. Now, if this group is upholding another Jesus and a different gospel message than found in God's Word, how can your salvation be secure within such a system? 
This was the fellowship I remembered and left for something far better and doctrinally more sound and satisfying. 
