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Post by Done4now on Aug 12, 2011 17:56:53 GMT -5
Quizzer said:
My territory has produced some of the scariest exe-2x2s that the workers have ever known.
I have no idea where you live, but forget about the exes--if the professing people in the vicinity are anything like you it must be daunting for the workers!
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Post by JO on Aug 12, 2011 18:44:53 GMT -5
"Cleanse this testimony/fellowship and start with me" Do you accept that you might be accused of being a "Lech Walesa" as a result? |
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Post by quizzer on Aug 13, 2011 2:17:30 GMT -5
Quizzer said: My territory has produced some of the scariest exe-2x2s that the workers have ever known. I have no idea where you live, but forget about the exes--if the professing people in the vicinity are anything like you it must be daunting for the workers! I'm actually really easy-going, compared to some of my professing family. sherbear - I use the word "scary" for the exe-2x2s from my area because I believe that's the way the workers view them. The friends can't say anything nice about them - lots of hissing when their names are mentioned. However, that is not a reflection on the character of the exe-2x2s. I have found these same exe-2x2s to be highly intelligent and kind. Listening to them has filled in a lot of blanks in the stories from the professing world. |
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Post by lazarus66 on Aug 13, 2011 23:18:38 GMT -5
This just occurred to me. I have thought it for a long time, and perhaps now I can put it into words that make sense.
There are many things said about both "exes" and those still "professing", and these things, all to often, get really intense and extreme. In the cases of both categories, the individuals are painted out to be "bitter" (for exes) or overzealous ( for those still professing) .
MY INTENT WITH THIS POST IS TO MAKE SENSE FOR BOTH SIDES.
If you read this remember I am using general terms and situations.
First, let's look at a person that has professed and is extremely satisfied with the "truth". This person has often had a personal spiritual experience that has led them to where they are, and they are content. If this person is content, and living a life with the joy they should have in serving God, then they are Christians that have found a way to have a good relationship with God. This is very simple and hard to argue with.
Second, let's take a look at a person that has never been exposed to a meeting and has never been exposed to anything to do with the F&W's. This person has had a spiritual experience and is in the same position as the first person, and is content and also living a life with the joy they should have in serving God. If this person, like the first is content and living a life with the joy they should have in serving God, then they are Christians that have found a way to have a good relationship with God. This is also, very simple and hard to argue with.
Most likely, neither person can really express their experience and how they "got there" and why they have found their contentment.
It doesn't matter really, how they got there, but just the fact that they are both in the same situation, that is what really counts.
Now keep your mind open and imagine this.
Both wind up having really negative experiences with the manner that they find themselves in (regarding their spiritual life), but they do everything that they possibly can to resolve the problem, but the wind up leaving the manner in which they have been practicing their faith. In both of their experiences, they just simply, after exhausting all of their possibilities of why their methods of believing and learning of the reason that they can no longer follow their belief, they both leave the method of their worship.
NEITHER ONE OF THESE PEOPLE CAN EXPLAIN WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND NEITHER ONE HAS ANY CLUE ABOUT THE REASONS BUT BOTH HAVE LEFT THEIR PLACE OF WORSHIP, AND THE GROUP OF THOSE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH IN THEIR EXPERIENCE.
The only way that either of these people will ever come close to figuring this out would be to approach anyone that may have had a similar experience with what has happened to them, and listening carefully and just making suggestions to the therapist, and each other. This is such an extraordinary experience that nothing that either one of them has gone through and will probably describe to ANYONE will ever be understood by another person.
THIS MAY SEEM OVERSIMPLIFIED AND SEEM POINTLESS, BUT:
Due to the complexity of humans it seems like we overlook this part and there is so much anger, negativity and frustration with each other in far too many situations to allow a person just to state their experience, and have it "out there" for others to see. Sometimes we can relate to others experiences and it may help us to deal with our experience, but if love and compassion were thrown into the mix, perhaps a lot more could be accomplished in understanding others and allowing the "bridge" that is mentioned so often, to be built on, and thus make progress in trying to deal with so many different subjects a more positive and constructive end would be possible.
Many that have left the fellowship have valid points that they are trying to deal with, and many that feel like the fellowship is just being attacked, could have some of that compassion and there could be a meeting somewhere in the middle is a place where all could just take a moment and think about what is actual and true for the person experiencing that event that is true for them. I am guilty of the knee jerk quality (or lack there of) to want to just unload on some that are in different places on this journey called "life".
Life is difficult enough without coming here to this board, and trying to express frustrations, and difficulties we have in our lives, without being attacked and belittled for our thoughts and problems. I, probably more than any other, need to remember this and think about the pain and frustration that others may be experiencing and show more kindness and understanding to all, regardless of how they treat me.
I hope this will allow others to really think, and allow this board to be more for "discussion" than a forum to try to push our thoughts onto others, and get "tough with others" so that they may attempt to really look at what is going on behind the words or ideas expressed by myself or others.
Personally, I would like to change my approach and try to assist others in their time of need and personal crisis, that I feel at times when I come here to post.
Like I said, this can be pointless mumbo jumbo, or ffod for thought to allow us all to act with greater kindness to each other.
Peace to all, and I want to not offend, but uplift and help others to understand them as I wish to be understood when I come here to post when I am having a hard time, and need a little compassion.
I really mean this to all...............................Dale
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Post by pinky on Aug 14, 2011 0:51:49 GMT -5
With 'way' you [Clearday] and JO 'come across' in your posts I simply am not able to understand how God would use such minded people? Here's how God uses such minded people. He uses them to give those like me hope that one day things will be better. That it's possible to be professing but also tolerant, respectful, non exclusive, and non judgemental of outsiders and former members. That it's possible to be a member but acknowledge the bad and the ugly as well as the good, because things won't change without doing so. And that it's possible to see both sides of the fence with objectivity, instead of simply and blindly wearing the hat of F&W apologist. That's why I hang around TMB. I hope to see change within the system, and long for the day it filters down and I see some of the above 'thawing' in my own family. These 'such minded people' are the bridge builders around here, the ones we need, and the more, the better. I appreciate and thank God for them! |
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Post by quizzer on Aug 14, 2011 1:43:42 GMT -5
Great post, Dale!
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Post by SharonArnold on Aug 14, 2011 9:56:39 GMT -5
With 'way' you [Clearday] and JO 'come across' in your posts I simply am not able to understand how God would use such minded people? Here's how God uses such minded people. He uses them to give those like me hope that one day things will be better. That it's possible to be professing but also tolerant, respectful, non exclusive, and non judgemental of outsiders and former members. That it's possible to be a member but acknowledge the bad and the ugly as well as the good, because things won't change without doing so. And that it's possible to see both sides of the fence with objectivity, instead of simply and blindly wearing the hat of F&W apologist. That's why I hang around TMB. I hope to see change within the system, and long for the day it filters down and I see some of the above 'thawing' in my own family. These 'such minded people' are the bridge builders around here, the ones we need, and the more, the better. I appreciate and thank God for them! Very nicely expressed, Pinky! |
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 15, 2011 19:18:41 GMT -5
If I were to answer Noel's question directed at Cherie, I would state that "I do not consider them unsaved" but I also do not consider them saved. It is really not my place to judge. How am I to paint them all with one broad brush. God knows the heart. Only those in Christ are saved. Oh lookie there, I did answer it afterall.  Hehe. This statement also stands for those in other religious systems I don't agree with, like the Church of Christ. It is my prayer that they are saved, sealed by the Holy Spirit, abiding in Christ- but I am not to judge any man's servant, am I? |
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Post by emy on Aug 15, 2011 23:04:46 GMT -5
If I were to answer Noel's question directed at Cherie, I would state that "I do not consider them unsaved" but I also do not consider them saved. It is really not my place to judge. How am I to paint them all with one broad brush. God knows the heart. Only those in Christ are saved. Oh lookie there, I did answer it afterall. Hehe. This statement also stands for those in other religious systems I don't agree with, like the Church of Christ. It is my prayer that they are saved, sealed by the Holy Spirit, abiding in Christ- but I am not to judge any man's servant, am I? Couldn't help but wonder, what about systems you do agree with, if there are any? |
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 16, 2011 22:09:43 GMT -5
If I were to answer Noel's question directed at Cherie, I would state that "I do not consider them unsaved" but I also do not consider them saved. It is really not my place to judge. How am I to paint them all with one broad brush. God knows the heart. Only those in Christ are saved. Oh lookie there, I did answer it afterall. Hehe. This statement also stands for those in other religious systems I don't agree with, like the Church of Christ. It is my prayer that they are saved, sealed by the Holy Spirit, abiding in Christ- but I am not to judge any man's servant, am I? Couldn't help but wonder, what about systems you do agree with, if there are any? I'll have to get back to you on that one as it is an answer that would take time to type up! |
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Post by mom2b on Aug 18, 2011 23:18:00 GMT -5
This just occurred to me. I have thought it for a long time, and perhaps now I can put it into words that make sense. There are many things said about both "exes" and those still "professing", and these things, all to often, get really intense and extreme. In the cases of both categories, the individuals are painted out to be "bitter" (for exes) or overzealous ( for those still professing) . MY INTENT WITH THIS POST IS TO MAKE SENSE FOR BOTH SIDES.If you read this remember I am using general terms and situations. First, let's look at a person that has professed and is extremely satisfied with the "truth". This person has often had a personal spiritual experience that has led them to where they are, and they are content. If this person is content, and living a life with the joy they should have in serving God, then they are Christians that have found a way to have a good relationship with God. This is very simple and hard to argue with. Second, let's take a look at a person that has never been exposed to a meeting and has never been exposed to anything to do with the F&W's. This person has had a spiritual experience and is in the same position as the first person, and is content and also living a life with the joy they should have in serving God. If this person, like the first is content and living a life with the joy they should have in serving God, then they are Christians that have found a way to have a good relationship with God. This is also, very simple and hard to argue with. Most likely, neither person can really express their experience and how they "got there" and why they have found their contentment. It doesn't matter really, how they got there, but just the fact that they are both in the same situation, that is what really counts. Now keep your mind open and imagine this. Both wind up having really negative experiences with the manner that they find themselves in (regarding their spiritual life), but they do everything that they possibly can to resolve the problem, but the wind up leaving the manner in which they have been practicing their faith. In both of their experiences, they just simply, after exhausting all of their possibilities of why their methods of believing and learning of the reason that they can no longer follow their belief, they both leave the method of their worship. NEITHER ONE OF THESE PEOPLE CAN EXPLAIN WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND NEITHER ONE HAS ANY CLUE ABOUT THE REASONS BUT BOTH HAVE LEFT THEIR PLACE OF WORSHIP, AND THE GROUP OF THOSE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH IN THEIR EXPERIENCE. The only way that either of these people will ever come close to figuring this out would be to approach anyone that may have had a similar experience with what has happened to them, and listening carefully and just making suggestions to the therapist, and each other. This is such an extraordinary experience that nothing that either one of them has gone through and will probably describe to ANYONE will ever be understood by another person. THIS MAY SEEM OVERSIMPLIFIED AND SEEM POINTLESS, BUT: Due to the complexity of humans it seems like we overlook this part and there is so much anger, negativity and frustration with each other in far too many situations to allow a person just to state their experience, and have it "out there" for others to see. Sometimes we can relate to others experiences and it may help us to deal with our experience, but if love and compassion were thrown into the mix, perhaps a lot more could be accomplished in understanding others and allowing the "bridge" that is mentioned so often, to be built on, and thus make progress in trying to deal with so many different subjects a more positive and constructive end would be possible. Many that have left the fellowship have valid points that they are trying to deal with, and many that feel like the fellowship is just being attacked, could have some of that compassion and there could be a meeting somewhere in the middle is a place where all could just take a moment and think about what is actual and true for the person experiencing that event that is true for them. I am guilty of the knee jerk quality (or lack there of) to want to just unload on some that are in different places on this journey called "life". Life is difficult enough without coming here to this board, and trying to express frustrations, and difficulties we have in our lives, without being attacked and belittled for our thoughts and problems. I, probably more than any other, need to remember this and think about the pain and frustration that others may be experiencing and show more kindness and understanding to all, regardless of how they treat me. I hope this will allow others to really think, and allow this board to be more for "discussion" than a forum to try to push our thoughts onto others, and get "tough with others" so that they may attempt to really look at what is going on behind the words or ideas expressed by myself or others. Personally, I would like to change my approach and try to assist others in their time of need and personal crisis, that I feel at times when I come here to post. Like I said, this can be pointless mumbo jumbo, or ffod for thought to allow us all to act with greater kindness to each other. Peace to all, and I want to not offend, but uplift and help others to understand them as I wish to be understood when I come here to post when I am having a hard time, and need a little compassion. I really mean this to all...............................Dale This is a nice post... nicely stated. The problem with the F&W fellowship is the exlusivity. I'm like that person who worshiped God in the F&W church for many years, but it wasn't working for me... I was upset all the time, unable to cope or even read and pray. So, that's why I left... quite simple. If I had felt "saved" and contented, I would have stayed. Yet now I go to another church... no problem, right? Wrong. Big problem. My professing husband puts me down... I am cut off from fellowship with those I used to know, because of me? No.... Because they can't hear what I have to say... they can't comprehend my issues... they are afraid that whatever problems I had will rub off on them... They are afraid of losing, not just their salvation, but their reasoning ability, their good standing in their group, their "fixed" idea of who God is and what it takes to please God. So... I am forced to find my way on my own... Except, that TLC is there... Hey! Lots of folks who are going through/have gone through the same thing. Some are Christians, some are not, but all understand what it is like to be shut out, suddenly and completely, just because you don't agree with the status quo anymore. That is invaluable therapy that no therapist (who has no idea about what this group can do to a person) can give. |
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Post by ghost on Aug 19, 2011 10:51:07 GMT -5
The problem with the F&W fellowship is the exlusivity. I'm like that person who worshiped God in the F&W church for many years, but it wasn't working for me... I was upset all the time, unable to cope or even read and pray. So, that's why I left... quite simple. If I had felt "saved" and contented, I would have stayed. Yet now I go to another church... no problem, right? Wrong. Big problem. My professing husband puts me down... I am cut off from fellowship with those I used to know, because of me? No.... Because they can't hear what I have to say... they can't comprehend my issues... they are afraid that whatever problems I had will rub off on them... They are afraid of losing, not just their salvation, but their reasoning ability, their good standing in their group, their "fixed" idea of who God is and what it takes to please God. So... I am forced to find my way on my own... Except, that TLC is there... Hey! Lots of folks who are going through/have gone through the same thing. Some are Christians, some are not, but all understand what it is like to be shut out, suddenly and completely, just because you don't agree with the status quo anymore. That is invaluable therapy that no therapist (who has no idea about what this group can do to a person) can give. TLC is also exclusive. They exclude people who left the 2x2s but do not believe in Christ. So your statement « Some are Christians, some are not, but all understand what it is like to be shut out, suddenly and completely, just because you don't agree with the status quo anymore» is completely false TLC has its own exclusivity established and maintained by ilylo in a most arbitrary, unjust and authoritative way. And many people have left the TLC or were banished without geting any therapy ... |
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Post by emy on Aug 19, 2011 14:32:30 GMT -5
The problem with the F&W fellowship is the exlusivity. I'm like that person who worshiped God in the F&W church for many years, but it wasn't working for me... I was upset all the time, unable to cope or even read and pray. So, that's why I left... quite simple. If I had felt "saved" and contented, I would have stayed. Yet now I go to another church... no problem, right? Wrong. Big problem. My professing husband puts me down... I am cut off from fellowship with those I used to know, because of me? No.... Because they can't hear what I have to say... they can't comprehend my issues... they are afraid that whatever problems I had will rub off on them... They are afraid of losing, not just their salvation, but their reasoning ability, their good standing in their group, their "fixed" idea of who God is and what it takes to please God. So... I am forced to find my way on my own... Except, that TLC is there... Hey! Lots of folks who are going through/have gone through the same thing. Some are Christians, some are not, but all understand what it is like to be shut out, suddenly and completely, just because you don't agree with the status quo anymore. That is invaluable therapy that no therapist (who has no idea about what this group can do to a person) can give. TLC is also exclusive. They exclude people who left the 2x2s but do not believe in Christ. So your statement « Some are Christians, some are not, but all understand what it is like to be shut out, suddenly and completely, just because you don't agree with the status quo anymore» is completely false TLC has its own exclusivity established and maintained by ilylo in a most arbitrary, unjust and authoritative way. And many people have left the TLC or were banished without geting any therapy ...  |
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Post by lazarus66 on Aug 19, 2011 22:29:43 GMT -5
Ghost, I am a member of TLC. I am not a proclaimed "Christian" nor am I a proclaimed "Atheist". In fact I just recently posted a thread titled "Where is God?". Not all of the TLC members are believers. I personally know of one "ex-workers" that is not a believer, at least not a believer in the "Christian"/"NonChristian" labeling.
The biggest reason I have seen for someone not getting accepted in the TLC board, is that they are argumentative and not very kind about it. They have proven themselves to be those that tend to like to stir up the pot, so to speak.
I don't know of every case, and don't imply that I do, nor do I imply that I know all that goes on there. I simply know that I have gone there, spoken my mind, and have been disagreed with, but never in an attacking or mean spirited way.
Just like here, the people that run TLC are human, and may make mistakes. I do know that they attempt to keep it free from extremists that would cause discord and make it so that people like me can not feel free to share what I have shared.
I assure you I do not speak for all of the people that run the board, but I have been contacted on several occasions for my reactions or knowledge of a certain person that has applied, and I simply reply with the knowledge I have of that person, good, bad, or indifferent, and assure them that I am only speaking from MY OWN PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE of that person or situation.
I am not perfect and try to just be honest and as kind as I can. One person that was admitted to the board, was a person that in "professing life" had done me great wrong, and I gave my opinion that this person was a liar and could not be trusted ( I gave specifics) and they were allowed on any way. I sent this person a PM and let them know of my displeasure with them, and that I would in no way interfere with their activity on the board to allow them the freedom to do what they chose to do. I did inform administrators of lies that this person was telling there on TLC, but told them that I had contacted this person with my feelings and that I would not interfere with their activity. This person soon showed their colors and they have not posted in a long time. I don't know if it has anything to do with me or my feelings, but I know they are still allowed on, but I am glad when I see that they are inactive.
I will write more on my thoughts about this post later, but wanted to slip this in there while it was still on the page.
This is how things get mis-reported and blown out of proportion. Just my experience........Dale
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Post by ghost on Aug 20, 2011 12:46:09 GMT -5
Ghost, I am a member of TLC. I am not a proclaimed "Christian" nor am I a proclaimed "Atheist". In fact I just recently posted a thread titled "Where is God?". Not all of the TLC members are believers. I personally know of one "ex-workers" that is not a believer, at least not a believer in the "Christian"/"NonChristian" labeling. The biggest reason I have seen for someone not getting accepted in the TLC board, is that they are argumentative and not very kind about it. They have proven themselves to be those that tend to like to stir up the pot, so to speak. I don't know of every case, and don't imply that I do, nor do I imply that I know all that goes on there. I simply know that I have gone there, spoken my mind, and have been disagreed with, but never in an attacking or mean spirited way. Just like here, the people that run TLC are human, and may make mistakes. I do know that they attempt to keep it free from extremists that would cause discord and make it so that people like me can not feel free to share what I have shared. I assure you I do not speak for all of the people that run the board, but I have been contacted on several occasions for my reactions or knowledge of a certain person that has applied, and I simply reply with the knowledge I have of that person, good, bad, or indifferent, and assure them that I am only speaking from MY OWN PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE of that person or situation. I am not perfect and try to just be honest and as kind as I can. One person that was admitted to the board, was a person that in "professing life" had done me great wrong, and I gave my opinion that this person was a liar and could not be trusted ( I gave specifics) and they were allowed on any way. I sent this person a PM and let them know of my displeasure with them, and that I would in no way interfere with their activity on the board to allow them the freedom to do what they chose to do. I did inform administrators of lies that this person was telling there on TLC, but told them that I had contacted this person with my feelings and that I would not interfere with their activity. This person soon showed their colors and they have not posted in a long time. I don't know if it has anything to do with me or my feelings, but I know they are still allowed on, but I am glad when I see that they are inactive. I will write more on my thoughts about this post later, but wanted to slip this in there while it was still on the page. This is how things get mis-reported and blown out of proportion. Just my experience........Dale I was inactive for several months too. Then I started posting on TMB and WITHOUT POSTING ANYTHING on TLC, I was suspended ... Here is the reason Here are some comments by other people on the TLC's tolerance policy Ánother one And another one *** some aliases have been eliminated to protect the ones not liked by ilylo |
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Post by ghost on Aug 20, 2011 12:58:35 GMT -5
This is the tolerance policy of ilylo on TLC concerning non-christians
Muslim women in France and Belgium wearing burkas just get a fine ...
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Post by ghost on Aug 22, 2011 11:20:37 GMT -5
One more comment by a TLC user
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 22, 2011 12:45:29 GMT -5
One more comment by a TLC user Interesting. I don't have a problem with ilylo's attitude. Sure, there are things we have disagreed with on TLC, but I think we're both allowed differing strong opinions. I try not to take someone's opposing view as a personal attack, even when it comes to the way I raise or school my children or choose to fellowship. |
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Post by rational on Aug 22, 2011 13:25:32 GMT -5
The biggest reason I have seen for someone not getting accepted in the TLC board, is that they are argumentative and not very kind about it. This is especially true if the argument is directed toward ilylo. |
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 22, 2011 13:32:31 GMT -5
The biggest reason I have seen for someone not getting accepted in the TLC board, is that they are argumentative and not very kind about it. This is especially true if the argument is directed toward ilylo. How would you know? |
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 22, 2011 14:15:58 GMT -5
I think you would find TLC is not what most innies think. We actually do have conversations about the things we loved and enjoyed about meetings and conventions... special memories, etc. It isn't this huge meeting-bashing place people envision.
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 22, 2011 17:08:34 GMT -5
One more comment by a TLC user hmmm......I don't recall such a post on TLC or anyone that was very unhappy with ilylo. Was this a long time ago? Can you give approximate dates? OR.....oh! Maybe they were in private messages (?)! I'm curious, why do you have such a problem with TLC? Didn't you used to post a lot over there? Not any more? Ghost, I'm sorry I posted this prior to having read all the recent posts on the last couple of pages. I guess I lost more than I thought while my kids were visiting! I now have my answer about "what is your problem with TLC"  And yes, I see you did indeed post over there. But, still, how long has it been since you collected these messages?
You are correct, there are some who are not a good fit for TLC. When posts disrupt the peace of the more tender ones, some correction has to go on. It is not a good place to challenge others beliefs or even express your own in a challenging way. I didn't go back over there to read your old posts, but is that what you have done there? If not, what did you understand the objection to be?
Best regards,
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 22, 2011 17:12:23 GMT -5
Do you get other social prejudices? Even if you do not have racial prejudices yourself, do you understand what social or racial prejudices are? When someone leaves the F&W and their family holds themselves apart from the person leaving (this is done both verbally and none verbally), it is as hurtful and distancing as racial prejudice. Once a family member presents this prejudice, why would the person having left desire to be around them?
This hurts even worse because love and family connection is involved, and is lost in the bridge burning. My question would be, however, is "who really set the match to the bridge?" Best regards, Edy Because the love of Christ has taught them to love their enemies? This doesn't have anything to do with loving them or not.....we still love the people we loved before we left. We are just treated as it we are not loved by them. |
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Post by ghost on Aug 23, 2011 2:49:31 GMT -5
Ghost, I'm sorry I posted this prior to having read all the recent posts on the last couple of pages. I guess I lost more than I thought while my kids were visiting! I now have my answer about "what is your problem with TLC" And yes, I see you did indeed post over there. But, still, how long has it been since you collected these messages?
You are correct, there are some who are not a good fit for TLC. When posts disrupt the peace of the more tender ones, some correction has to go on. It is not a good place to challenge others beliefs or even express your own in a challenging way. I didn't go back over there to read your old posts, but is that what you have done there? If not, what did you understand the objection to be?
Best regards,
Edy I had been suspended for 30 days by ilylo in july 2010 for posting the following post under the title «Emotional response from Christians» (it read something like this, I did not keep a copy): This post was deleted and I received a warning from ilylo without any explanation (Just This is your warning). Then I published a second message (I kept a copy of this) as follows: Immediately after this post (I mean in seconds !!!) I was suspended for a month. When my account was reestablished, I started a thread entitled «Writer's block» where I explained that I could not post freely on TLC because I felt that ANY post could be interpreted by ilylo as appearing to be an attempt against christianity. Ilylo threatened to exclude me altogether but did not proceed. I stoped posting since Sept-Oct 2010 (I am not sure as I did not keep copies of my posts). Then, on Aug 5, 2011 I posted on TMB ( professing.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=17944&page=2#417769) and again on TMB on Aug 13 ( professing.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=18024&page=1#419529). I STRESS THE FACT THAT I POSTED NOTHING ON TLC. However, when I tried to log-in the TLC I realised I have been suspended for good. When I asked Cherie why, she replied as follows: Then Cherie and ilylo just ignored my messages. My conclusions: There exists a strong interaction between TMB and TLC with people confounding the two in their mind. I do not think that anybody complained about what I wrote as Cherie pretends. It was just ilylo's decision to bannish me because he cannot stand a sceptic's position that questions his fundamental obsessions. Some people in TLC and ilylo in particular, are at least as exclusive as some strong-minded 2x2s. Exiting the 2x2 system does not mean that one exits the 2x2 mindset (or as someone wrote me in pm - the new pit). And finally, this attitude fully proves (once more) my point - religions and sects are dangerous when a collection of myths is considered as THE ONLY way to interpret the world and one's relations with others. When people are divided into saved believers and unsaved non-believers (that should either be converted to the right way or avoided altogether). The world has suffered, is suffering and will suffer in the future from this attitude and the only way out is to learn to live with the «others» who after all are fellow humans believing in their own myths but who try to explain the world on the basis of facts and experiences. Personally, I am very happy I live in a world where many of the Bible's admonitions are considered illegal - can you imagine ilylo as the governor of a medieval province? I would have been hanged, burned, decapitated, drowned or poisoned long ago ... in the name of God and his only son/prophet/high priest ... Sceptics have served humanity a great deal after all ... |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 23, 2011 5:04:05 GMT -5
ilylo posted that? Yes, the TLC is simply a place where all are treated with dignity and respect. Perhaps a thread here on the TMB for copy and paste so everyone can see the other translation of "the only bible some of us will ever read". |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 23, 2011 5:24:11 GMT -5
Why would they become exactly what they criticise? I don't get it. Do you get other social prejudices? Even if you do not have racial prejudices yourself, do you understand what social or racial prejudices are? When someone leaves the F&W and their family holds themselves apart from the person leaving (this is done both verbally and none verbally), it is as hurtful and distancing as racial prejudice. Once a family member presents this prejudice, why would the person having left desire to be around them? This hurts even worse because love and family connection is involved, and is lost in the bridge burning. My question would be, however, is "who really set the match to the bridge?" Best regards, Edy I understand the psychology of social and racial prejudices but don't understand what it has to do with the point I was making; why some exes become exactly what they criticise, one example is ghost mentioned here; Some people in TLC and ilylo in particular, are at least as exclusive as some strong-minded 2x2s. Exiting the 2x2 system does not mean that one exists the 2x2 mindset (or as someone wrote me in pm - the new pit). |
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Post by kencoolidge on Aug 23, 2011 7:36:09 GMT -5
I think you would find TLC is not what most innies think. We actually do have conversations about the things we loved and enjoyed about meetings and conventions... special memories, etc. It isn't this huge meeting-bashing place people envision. woe For some it is streching spiritual boundaries to be able to accept that there is anything spiritually good outside the Box they have put God in. I think it is easier for them to think evil of something good. Nothing new ken |
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Post by rational on Aug 23, 2011 8:49:43 GMT -5
This is especially true if the argument is directed toward ilylo. How would you know? Experience. |
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Hehe.
And yes, I see you did indeed post over there. But, still, how long has it been since you collected these messages?
