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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 3:55:12 GMT -5
Firstly, I think it would be good to establish if the appeal process is still ongoing. If it is, I suspect that EB will be well marshalled at convention. There again, we are talking about the workers?
If EB attends convention (a large communal gathering) where there are plenty of children and he fits in with the noble purpose of the gathering and shows no signs of untoward behaviour, there is the likelihood that this will be used to influence the appeal court judges that EB is a reformed character and that the suspended prison sentence is not necessary.
In my view, there is far less risk to the children attending convention from EB than there is they may be used as unwitting pawns (as well as everyone else attending) in an attempt to influence the appeal procedure.
Consider this. EB has been sentenced to 6 months imprisonment. His defence counsel consider a prison sentence to be excessive in the circumstances considered by the court. If the appeal procedure takes 6 months or more to complete, during which time EB is at liberty, AND during this time he shows positive signs of becoming a reformed character and has attended communal gatherings where there are plenty of children without any signs of re-offending, then what need is there of a prison sentence (which some in the legal profession consider excessive). The matter may then be dealt with by a fine or other means.
Of course, the monies to pay any fine would likely have originated from the friends, perhaps even some related to the victims of his abuses.
For me, this is a far liklier scenario to consider. However I STRESS, this is purely my own speculation from as far distant from the matter as you can get on this planet.
It would be interesting to know just what role the workers concerned are playing in this matter? EB would not be attending convention without their consent, perhaps encouragement even. Are they assisting the EB's legal counsel in the bid to have the prison sentence quashed?
FWIW if EB is serious about reforming his ways and somehow being rehabilitated into the 2x2 system, I have absolutely no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is if this is scenario is being more governed by getting him off the hook with his prison sentence than one of genuine remorse. I would find that despicable. This is why I would have preferred for any attempt to rehabilitate EB back into the system to wait until after his appeal hearing. In the meantime, it (for me) just smacks of playing into the legal game. However, this is all said on the assumption the appeal process is still ongoing.
Again I have no problem with the workers bending over backwards to help EB in his circumstances, provided he is showing sincere repentence. However, when you consider that most workers would not lift a finger to help one of the victims of CSA or otherwise in need, it just sickens you to see them treat others as worthless dirt in comparison.
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Post by jay on Oct 21, 2011 4:41:44 GMT -5
Extract from what S concerned posted on Oct 17
[Now that is cause for serious concern. The friends in Qld have had enough child abuse of their own without importing.........]
Could you elaborate on this Qld problem, how long ago , and in what area.
Or is it an unsubstantiated rumour.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2011 21:37:07 GMT -5
CSA has become a very hot topic. Sometimes the discussion becomes so intense that the facts disappear. I think some of the comments about EB going to convention are a bit over the top. Let us remember that EB would be near 70 and the trangressions took place 40 years ago. When I was a horny young man, and my very wise Mother who knew what was going on said to me, "You know it doesn't last forever". Now I am in my 70's I know exactly what she meant. I think you will find that what was once EB's sex appeal, is now his water spout. The children are safe, there is no need to lock them up. Nature has taken its course.
The 2x2 church because of its nature has always been a place for gossip and innuendo.
When I left the 2x2's I used to enjoy a drink with the "boys"I worked with. My 2x2 relations got to know about this, and by the time it got back to my Mother I was an alcoholic and I had a hip flask in my pocket. It was a joke as (a) I did not like spirits (b) I did not want to become an alcoholic as I had family responsibilities. The sincere 2x2's in Victoria need to have the powers that be have an open meeting so as the true facts are known, and to quell gossip. This happened in the 50's with the problems then, and a solution was found. Maybe they need another Willie Donaldson.
We grew up with EB's family and they were regarded as a very sincere, faithful 2x2 family. They had their share of misfortune. The Father had a bad accident and was left a paraplegic. This caused the family great hardship. Our hearts go out to EB's brothers and sister, and their families as this must be "hell"for them. All I say is be careful of the information we receive, and perhaps some compassion is needed. We must always remember "But for the grace of God, there go I".
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 22, 2011 23:46:57 GMT -5
This guy must have been 80 when he last was convicted of CSA www.buffalonews.com/city/police-courts/courts/article277026.ece At age 101, pedophile dies, ending an ugly tale As word spread of his death, no tears were being shed for the man who authorities said sexually attacked children for decades in Buffalo and later in the Town of Tonawanda.He had been convicted of sexual inappropriate behavior with two young sisters in the Town of Tonawanda in 1999. Initially released in 2008, he was sent back to prison because of another parole violation before his release last year.Likewise a 92 year old worker was recently booted out of the work for CSA. Not sure how old he was at the time of the last reported incident. Of course compassion is always needed in such issues. Interestingly enough, we don't hear much concerning compassion toward the victims, but mainly for the abuser. |
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Post by wonder ing on Oct 23, 2011 0:04:31 GMT -5
Thanks Scott. I wonder where Redback gets his information from about reoffending rates of convicted pedophiles, and his certainty that they cease at a certain old age.
Also how does he have knowledge of when Ernie Barry stopped offending? Is Redback certain that he's not offended in the past 40 years? Not what friends in Vic are saying.
Also of all the children he abused, how many have received practical assistance of a compassionate nature from Workers? Maybe any who has can say so, anonymously here. It's easy to do a post.
Without doubt Ernie Barry has put his family through hell. That's part of the cost and judgment on this most vile and cruel sin. Like Redback said, his brothers and sisters have my deepest sympathy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2011 4:01:15 GMT -5
wonder ing do you believe what friends in Vic are saying. It was always a hot bed of gossip when we lived there 40 years ago. We were back there recently to a 2x2 gathering and I felt that not much has changed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2011 4:21:08 GMT -5
Redback, you say much that is logical and common sense, however your posts come across as considering EB only or primarily. I've known of cases of men well into their 70s who have committed acts of CSA, so it's a big "no" for some individuals that at that age it is only used for peeing out off! Sometimes it is men of that age who offend in cases of CSA for the first time, perhaps due to limitations on their sex drive at that age? Children can become an option, perhaps the only one?
This matter is primarily about "justice" and justice being seen to be served. However, that justice has to be meted out in a way commensurate with prevailing circumstances in which all factors relating to EB must be taken into account. Most of us will be oblivious to all or most of these factors.
It is interesting too that EB is reported to be attending convention in a different state. I'm not sure how Aussie law works, but any restrictions placed upon EB by the Victoria Court may not be valid in Queensland?
In these type of matters I would be surprised if Victoria was not a hotbed of gossip. After all why should it be different from any other place on the planet? It seems that at least in the state of Victoria that "gossip" is the only channel by which csa victims within the sect are being afforded protection? Without it they would be completely exposed to recurrences. Despite all of its flaws it has a positive purpose if weighed up properly.
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Post by wonder ing on Oct 23, 2011 5:50:29 GMT -5
Redback, let's establish your credibility and qualifications on this subject. Are you defending Ernie Barry on the grounds that you believe he has only one victim of CSA and from about 40 years ago?
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Post by wildflower on Oct 23, 2011 5:55:36 GMT -5
Well isn't it all a little bit uncertain, the future? Well I dont know what ernie is doing in his pathetic little life that he has, but one thing is for sure HE WILL GET OUT OF WHAT HE HAS DONE. But for the victims of CSA it is never over. I have been informed recently of a family in TAS that think they are protecting their teenage children by not letting them know of the CSA that is happening and has happened. Their children have no idea. How blind can they be??? The parents that is??? You think people would do anything to protect there children??? They think that they are protecting the truth, workers and friends. What about family, your own flesh and blood.  Do you all think that it would be wise to inform your children of CSA in any form whether it was in a church or in a community setting?? Dont your children have the right to know?? It is all a very closed book in TAS about CSA. People are keeping in under wraps and protending it didn't happen?? No one is talking about it?? Two men workers came into my parents house and demanded to know if they had the internet?? At that stage they had no idea about what was going on. Because they had no internet at the time, the workers decided that they didn't need to know what was going on. I cant believe how they could do this!!. There was a letter that came out for the friends in TAS/VIC, and also a meeting that happened in Hobart, and I know that many TAS friends never Knew about it and was certaintly never given a copy of it. Ernie Barry was in the work in TAS for many years as I was growing up so why was many informed else where and not in TAS and why wasn't infomation readly available to all. As for ernie being in his 70s and long over his fettish for children and CSA. I had a man in his 80s do whatt he did to me, so dont give me that BS!!!! Ernie can attend convention whether the friend like it or not and yes with my experience in the court system it can make his appeal look much better. It may even be dimissed from court with not sentance given. This my thoughts only. |
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Post by wild flower on Oct 23, 2011 6:05:14 GMT -5
;DHey redback you think that ernie just uses that dirty little worm just for peeing out of.?? have you ever heard of viagra or the little blue pill. It doesnt matter what age any old man is they can always support there dirty little need to do what ever. So get with the real world. Ernie has no repentance. if he was sorry he would not have done it after the fisrt victim.  |
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Post by wattle on Oct 23, 2011 6:09:19 GMT -5
Hey are sure that redback doesn't have some sort of conection with Ernie It seems like redback is supporting him??? or am I wrong here?? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2011 6:54:05 GMT -5
I don't see redback as actually supporting EB, but rather making the error of assessing others by his own personal experience rather than examining all the possibilities.
While it is true the sex drive declines in men as they age, it starts at a unique level for each man and it declines at varying rates for various reasons. So while it is possible for a sex offender to be rendered impotent by their 70's, it is by no means a certainty, nor even a high likelihood.
The other aspect is that many sex crimes are not only about sex but often primarily about control and dominance. That doesn't necessarily decline with age either.
If a multiple offender is 75, healthy, and running around amongst children, beware.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2011 7:22:04 GMT -5
If mercy is to be shown in these cirumstances then let that mercy be qualified for. Mercy is usually linked with true repentence and remorse. The tax collector Zacheus gives us a good example as a guide. "If I have defrauded anyone, I will restore them forefold."
It is that type of spirit which qualifies for mercy (not to be confused with deserves). It is one filled with repentence and true concern for the victims. Has the true spirit of repentence been shown by EB towards his victims? I very much doubt the court will have imposed any restrictions on EB from contacting his victims (either by himself or by an intermediary) as they will all be very mature adults by now.
The court will deal with the legal side of this matter. It will be up to EB to address the moral and emotional sides.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 23, 2011 9:30:25 GMT -5
Not real too sure about the 40 year idea. Here is what was posted on the BTS board with that same 40 year figure in it: As a spectator at yesterdays court hearing, I would like to express my feelings of joy at hearing the judge's verdict and sentence on the sex offender. The presiding Judge is a very respected judge who has had much experience with such cases. It was very disheartening to see the sex offender's very well paid defence counsel apply for an Appeal. We were under the impression that the sex offender was remorseful and understood the harm and the trauma he had caused and that he would accept what punishment the judicial system of our country would dish out. Clearly, he didnt believe he was going to get jail time. He believed he would get off with a slap on the wrist and the freedom to go off onto his newly purchased block of land and build his dream home where he would live freely and build furniture until he died. (information obtained from his defence counsel) This is what is clear to me: * Ernie is NOT remorseful If he were remorseful he would have taken the punishment handed to him... What is 6 months of his measley existence when he has inflicted decades of trauma, suffering and abuse to at least 13 young girls.. Spanning over a 40 year period. If he were remorseful he would admit to ALL the abuse he has inflicted.. He would apologize to all of his victims, he would hand himself in to the Police and he would take whatever was coming to him. He would save his victims the further trauma and time delays for what is inevitably a Guilty Man and a Guilty Multiple Sex Offender.. Now .... Consider this..... if this is the outcome of one courageous womans fight for justice to the abuse she endured at the hands of this predator, imagine what it may be if the other victims stood up and did the same! Imagine the freedom of letting go of the guilt, the trauma, the memories, and the suffering in silence that they have carried for possibly decades! Imagine standing side by side with the support and strength of other victims to bring this Child Molester to justice.. In the courts eyes, he has only abused one victim. In the court's eyes, he could be rehabilitated because it was 'only one victim' and he didnt show a pattern of sexual abuse or predatory behaviour. WE KNOW THATS NOT TRUE! How is he to be properly treated for his affinity to young children if he has not been truthful and he is seen to be a non-serious sex offender?? The people who have chosen not to come forward have unknowingly contributed to his status as a 'one victim sex offender' and therefore he will never be properly rehabilitated and will be a predator amongst children for the rest of his life!! SILENCE IS CONSENT : If you stay silent you are only consenting to his behaviour being acceptable. Feel free to PM me for confidential advice. Latest reports from Vic suggest this worker/perpetrator now only confesses to having one child victim. WINGS has knowledge of at least 13 Vic/Tas victims who as children were sexually assaulted by a worker. The sexual assaults were of a most serious and criminal nature. The most recent is within the past 10 years. The attitudes of this perpetrator and of some of the friends who are minimising his criminal past are surely offensive to godly folk? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2011 15:53:40 GMT -5
Please keep one thing in mind. The courts by and large deal with the legal situation, not the moral situation. The defence counsel is employed to get the best deal for his/her client in a legal sense. EB will be acting on the advice of his lawyer, who according to the above post is well paid! Yes he can over-rule his lawyer on certain issues, but that negates the position of the lawyer. Try and view this separately from the moral and emotional issues.
This is why I have concerns over the possibility of EB attending a convention whilst the appeal procedure is ongoing. I cannot help but be suspicious as to the motives behind it. Is he truly remorseful or is he (and his lawyer) playing a game? Are the workers involved if the latter applies? On the face of it, attending a convention carries a suggestion of remorse.
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Post by wattle on Oct 23, 2011 23:13:02 GMT -5
Was there a detective involved in this case of Ernie Barry?? Maybe he should be contacted. He may know what is going on?? Listed on the "wings for truth" Website.  |
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Post by jay on Oct 24, 2011 1:30:58 GMT -5
Redback you stated that
(quote)
when you lived there 40 years ago......
(unquote)
I wonder if you are totally out of touch with reality in these later years.
What Scott has posted from another board re EB is more like the truth that I understand it, ie possibly 10 years and beyond.
Yes I do feel deeply sorry for the family, but I do know that a particular female would NOT Trust him near her, from what I understand she had a sixth sense about him.
It is indeed a terrible thing to Loose TRUST in a Worker.
A Worker has to be SO Trustworthy in EVERY respect at ALL times.
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Post by Bad ger M on Oct 24, 2011 5:29:42 GMT -5
Was there a detective involved in this case of Ernie Barry?? Maybe he should be contacted. He may know what is going on?? Listed on the "wings for truth" Website. I understand that there was a recent enquiry made to the Police Officer in charge of the case in order to ascertain the current position, but he has not yet provided the courtesy of a reply. The Police will no doubt be monitoring this site in an endeavour to obtain any further leads or information. Maybe they could post an update on this thread |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2011 5:37:42 GMT -5
Was there a detective involved in this case of Ernie Barry?? Maybe he should be contacted. He may know what is going on?? Listed on the "wings for truth" Website. I understand that there was a recent enquiry made to the Police Officer in charge of the case in order to ascertain the current position, but he has not yet provided the courtesy of a reply. The Police will no doubt be monitoring this site in an endeavour to obtain any further leads or information. Maybe they could post an update on this thread Unless there are enquiries ongoing into separate offences or complaints (my understanding is that there are none, but I could be wrong) this matter has been concluded by the police. It has been referred to the court and Barry pled guilty and was sentenced to 6 months imprisonment. An appeal has been lodged against the sentence but this has nothing to do with the police. It is unlikely the police will be monitoring this site, especially since it appears they are not considering any other complaints. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2011 14:40:37 GMT -5
Yes I made a big mistake and I am sorry for it. I assumed that because God was kind to me and allowed my sexual activity to drop off at 70, I thought this happened to all men. It came as a complete surprise when I found out from this board that some men have to keep their end up until 100 or more. I thank God that I have been spared.
The comments by ram are good and I agree with "Most of us will be oblivious to all or most of these factors". Because of this our comments become speculation, obtained from hear say. This is why I said we need to be careful. This subject does gain publicity, and even Scott with all of his sources of information is unable to test or verify that information. That can only be done in a court of law. Sorry ram but I cannot find any information that states that EB's lawyer was well paid.
In recent days I have received information about a CSA where the perpetrator was a very close 2x2 relative of mine, now dead. He was also an elder. I know the victim and have been told she is a mess. I also know another victim who is also a mess, where the perpetrator was the elder of our church. He is also dead, but both the victims are alive and have nobody to turn to. Both of these cases could be more serious than the EB one, and I am still trying to deal with the shock in receiving the information. It makes it harder when it is close to your own family.
The 2x2 church has been irresponsible in not setting up an independent body to deal with this problem. Victims are often reluctant to go to the Police. Workers are not up to the task, it needs professionals. Yes they would have to be paid, and the 2x2 church has plenty of that. Of course if this body finds that a criminal act has been committed it must be referred to the Police. As we know the Police do not provide support services, they are only interested in the law.I am aware that a sister worker made a ring around to ladies who may have been affected by EB. I have spoken to several who were contacted. This is not good enough it needs much more than that. Let us hope that the sincere 2x2's in Victoria, of which I know there are many, can bring about change.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 3:36:06 GMT -5
Hey Redback, no need to feel sorry for anything. No one person has the full dollar, far from it. You chucked in your two cents worth which goes a long way to making up the whole. It just needed mixed in and considered with everyone else's loose change!
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Post by ts on Oct 25, 2011 7:59:13 GMT -5
Thanks Redback & Ram. We know from Vic & Tas several of EB's victims, suffering deeply still after many years. Like you say Redback some lives a mess after what EB did with them. None that we know could have the strength to go to police or even speak with workers if they were still professing. If anybody thinks EB's legacy will finish with the court cases, think again. What is the judgement for those who destroy lives in this way? So many lives that we hear, not just naturally ruined but battling spiritually as well. What would you expect when a trusted "servant of God" abuses you like that? Do any workers even care for EB's victims? It's to their shame, all who don't lift a finger to help the victims rather than the perpetrator. Is it true that EB is getting property, a house and a woodworking shop out of the whole deal. Plus he evidently got expensive counsel for his court hearing. Where is all this money coming from? Sounds like the workers and friends respect immoral workers leaving the ministry more than they respect moral ones leaving the ministry. Is that the same spirit world wide as it is in Australia? |
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Post by wonder ing on Oct 25, 2011 18:21:13 GMT -5
Who knows? I will ask my Vic friends see if they know. Did hear EB is staying with his sister.
Redback, thinking of you, it is deeply shocking and distressing for you. thoughts are with the two friends of yours who are victims also.
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Post by Sacre Cowd on Oct 26, 2011 8:23:57 GMT -5
Why isnt there TAS friends and exs talking on this board?? We need to all talk. Why are they all so quite?? ;D let yourself be heard for the sake of Salvation, Ha Ha Comon! If EB is staying with his sister, then why doesn;t she do the good thing for him and find a pillow for his head to rest on!!! ;D  If you get by drift!!! Ha Ha got to have some humor every now and then. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2011 12:06:06 GMT -5
Sorry Sacre Cowd I don't think this is a humorous topic. Yes I can be flippant, but the serious side has been brought home to me since I heard about a victim where the alleged perpetrator is a close relative of mine. It has come as a real shock to me and has made me think. Also go read the post by Jean Austin on the thread "Why have Friends left meetings", that will also make you think. I know two victims who would have a very similar story to Jean Austin's, their lives ruined because of events that took place 30 or 40 years ago. It is far from being funny.
I believe it is high time for a professional body to contact these victims to establish the cause.
I know of two victims, other TMB members know of other victims and a confidential list could be made maybe by Wings. The study then needs to determine:-
Is the problem greater in the 2x2 church, or is it in line with the rest of society.
Is the problem greater because of unmarried clergy.
Why have elders offended, I know of two alleged cases.
Why are mostly ladies now in their 50's and 60's being so badly affected.
Are these victims getting the support they need, and who pays the costs.
If the perpetrators are alive they have to be dealt with by the law.
If the perpetrators are dead, victims and relatives need counselling.
Why does it seem to be more prevalent in a particular area, ie. Victoria,Australia.
I am sure there are many other questions. It is a very serious matter, and I don't think the 2x2 church by itself will find the answers. They need the help of professionals.
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Post by Sacre Cowd on Oct 26, 2011 19:13:17 GMT -5
Hi
Redback
Are you a victim of CSA?? Well then I am and if I want to put some humor into a grey day then I will. To bad if you dont like it.
If you are a relative of EB or anyone else that has ruined someones life then you should be ashamed to be even related.!!!
I have all the professional help I could get but the hell never ends!
Yes I think on occasions that it is a joke because nothing is being done about CSA in the Two by Twos. It is all swept under the rug.
It feels better to make a light hearted joke, then to constantly think about topping yourself, when you read all about EB and the rest of his VILE worker friends and nothing is coming to light. So Take That!
Maybe you should do something useful and find what info you can as perpertrator is a family member and give it to the baord to present here for the victims. Have a bit of heart!
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Post by Angelina Mouse on Oct 28, 2011 4:33:05 GMT -5
:DHi Sacre cowd. was that meant to be sacred cow.! I'm sure you agree EB is no laughing matter, but sometimes having a little giggle stops the crying[inside or out]. We all thought he was such a nice worker  . How many others are not what we think they are. It is sad when you think why bother going to a meeting. I will feel better staying at home. Our trust has been broken and maybe cant be repaired. From a little Tassie Mouse. |
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Post by Angelina Mouse on Oct 28, 2011 4:46:53 GMT -5
I cant believe the posts about Vic being a hotbed of gossip. Wouldnt matter what state - they are all dreadful gossips. Some of my family have been dreadfully hurt by the gossip made up about them. had a worker come for a visit. bit shocked when the person said - lets have a good gossip before the others come home. The grapevine is very active and often very wrong. Mud sticks. |
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Do you all think that it would be wise to inform your children of CSA in any form whether it was in a church or in a community setting?? Dont your children have the right to know?? It is all a very closed book in TAS about CSA. People are keeping in under wraps and protending it didn't happen?? No one is talking about it?? Two men workers came into my parents house and demanded to know if they had the internet?? At that stage they had no idea about what was going on. Because they had no internet at the time, the workers decided that they didn't need to know what was going on. I cant believe how they could do this!!. There was a letter that came out for the friends in TAS/VIC, and also a meeting that happened in Hobart, and I know that many TAS friends never Knew about it and was certaintly never given a copy of it. Ernie Barry was in the work in TAS for many years as I was growing up so why was many informed else where and not in TAS and why wasn't infomation readly available to all. As for ernie being in his 70s and long over his fettish for children and CSA. I had a man in his 80s do whatt he did to me, so dont give me that BS!!!!
If you get by drift!!! Ha Ha got to have some humor every now and then.
. How many others are not what we think they are. It is sad when you think why bother going to a meeting. I will feel better staying at home. Our trust has been broken and maybe cant be repaired. From a little Tassie Mouse.