Attention Tasmanian/Victorian friends!

[jimmy]

Effort is being made to make phone contact with any who may have been affected - including those who have moved from the state or even left the fellowship. This is being done by some of the female workers and is undoubtably a fairly mammoth task.

[spiders]

Sept 21, 2010 7:49:39 GMT -5 jimmy said:

Effort is being made to make phone contact with any who may have been affected - including those who have moved from the state or even left the fellowship. This is being done by some of the female workers and is undoubtably a fairly mammoth task.

The female workers have been given the job of contacting people. However they are not talking to everyone.....those who they think would not be victims are not being contacted. I am not sure how they are making this assessment of people.

[Linford Bledsoe]

I thought Wings was doing this as well. Are both at a checkmate?

[spitfire]

there seems to be gross lack of open information on this matter , but at this time keeeping every one in darknes has been decided the way to go,what a strange way to show how the truth about sin must be withheld from gods children, It is not a pleasing subect but it is part of living on this earth and from now will be part of the way in vic/tas and if it effects families, children then our guides on this walk through life should have a duty to educate I would have thought hiding your head in the sand is not a good way to go but who am I ?

[Linford Bledsoe]

Just read this on the Wings sub board of TMB

prof wings admin unlogged
Guest
Re: Letter to Friends in Victoria and Tasmania
« Reply #232 Today at 8:01am »

Aug 10, 2010, 10:05am, Aus guest wrote:
..knowing the conservative manner of the Australian workers, to be in direct collaboration with Wings almost seems unbelievebale to me.


It is unbelievable because it's not happening. Neither direct nor indirect.
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[pinky]

Sept 25, 2010 15:18:49 GMT -5 Linford Bledsoe said:

I thought Wings was doing this as well. Are both at a checkmate?

I don't believe WINGS ever purported to fulfill this role.

[Linford Bledsoe]

Why is this thread here then?

[sharonw]

I thought it was an open thread so that all Aussies would know what is going on simply because a lot of them didn't....the word is getting out to some through this thread that otherwise they would have never known the why workers were pulled out of the work. It would become just like IH going all over the states and inferring he was out of the work due to "doctoring" issues....

[Scott Ross]

Sept 28, 2010 6:37:20 GMT -5 Linford Bledsoe said:

Why is this thread here then?

It is a thread for notifying the folks what is going on in regard to what is happening in Vic/Tas concerning workers being investigated for Child Sexual Abuse (CSA), and how the senior workers are handling this issue within the church.

Jimmy posted:

The female workers have been given the job of contacting people. However they are not talking to everyone.....those who they think would not be victims are not being contacted. I am not sure how they are making this assessment of people.

and you responded:

I thought Wings was doing this as well. Are both at a checkmate?

WINGS put together a letter and posted it concerning this issue.

Here is that letter again:

An open letter to Friends in Victoria and Tasmania
From WINGS staff

Dear friends,
We regret writing this type of letter to you, but it is necessary to do so considering the serious nature of
what we are about to write. This letter is for every one of the VIC/TAS list of friends. Many of you would not have children in your care, but you may be grandparents or otherwise have special concerns.

We have become aware that there is information circulating so we want to end the speculation and give you the facts as we are so far able to share.

Staff of WINGS include current and ex members of our fellowship of Friends and Workers. We have no agenda or motive beyond seeking the safety of our children from sexual abuse, and healing for past victims. It is our belief that by openly tackling any such issues should they arise, in a legally correct manner, the fellowship will only grow in integrity and with its reputation enhanced. By seeking to deny or cover over such issues, the reputation of the fellowship can only suffer.

It seems improbable that God could bless a ministry that knowingly failed to deal correctly with any worker who had sexually abused children.

In July 2010 we became aware that some women had spoken of their experiences as little girls, molested regularly over many years by a well known and respected senior worker. We understand that the said worker has confessed to molesting sexually at least six girls, and there may be further victims.
The girls ages range from 9 to early and mid teens. The sexual abuse happened on convention grounds and in homes and public places.

Because of the serious and criminal nature of these allegations, we feel that it is our responsibility to alert you to this situation at this time, as this worker has had the opportunity to visit many families with young girls throughout the past 30-40 years.

This letter serves to inform all parents and other caregivers that you should at first opportunity have a conversation with any child in your care, to determine if inappropriate sexual behaviour has taken place.

Molestation can have serious emotional, psychological and spiritual effects on a child, and this issue should be taken very seriously. If your child has been molested, he or she may be confused about what happened. It's common in these situations for the child to feel that anything inappropriate that
happened was somehow their fault. A pedophile will frequently tell the child that what he does with them is a secret and they should not tell anyone about it.

W.I.N.G.S. FOR TRUTH
Working to INform, Guide & Support
Those who have been sexually abused within the Truth Fellowship

If you are aware or learn of any inappropriate sexual behaviour, you should immediately call the authorities in your local area.

In regards to the above mentioned worker, he is no longer in the work in Victoria/Tasmania or anywhere else. He will not be afforded the opportunity as a servant of God, to be a risk to children any longer. We can all be grateful to the senior workers who understood the seriousness of this matter and
took these steps immediately.

Romans 13
“Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the
powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall
receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil.”

These words were not written to strangers but to God's people letting them know we are not exempt from the law and we must comply. It is referring to the civil authorities as being given to us by God.

They too are subject to God’s sovereign power.

From the WINGS staff.
There is some information attached below in regards to pedophiles and tips on how to discuss this with
your child.

www.wingsfortruth.info/howtotalktochildren.pdf

This letter was put together by WINGS and the concerned professing folks in the Vic/Tas area. It was provided to some of the workers, and has been shared by those workers with some of the professing folks that they contacted.

WINGS has not sent the letter to anyone, but encourages everyone to email, print and send, or to use in any manner they see fit to notify people who may be affected by this issue.

As always, we help when asked and cooperate with the authorities in any manner we are asked to.

Since this letter was posted, there has been a lot of speculation as to the motive of WINGS in writing this letter.

It is simply in keeping with our stated goals of:

Working to INform, Guide & Support Those who have been sexually abused within the Truth Fellowship

1- The letter INFORMS everyone that reads it of the situation that exists within the church there in Australia

2- It is a GUIDE that can be used for understanding what has happened and how to act/react if the reader is affected by the issue.

3- It is an offer of SUPPORT from WINGS in regard to the situation.

Hopefully that answers your questions.

There is other information available on the website:

wingsfortruth.info/australia.htm

Scott

[JO]

Perhaps overseers don't realize that their failure to openly distance themselves from CSA puts them under suspicion of complicity.

Are they sorry CSA has crept into the ministry, or are they sorry its been exposed?

What we need from the ministry is moral clarity.

What exactly does it stand for?

And what does it stand against?

[Linford Bledsoe]

It's not just the workers distancing themselves from this problem. The acts of these are 30-40 years old. Surely some of the friends knew about it, if not why was it hid? Don't say it was ignored.That only transfers the blame. That is why I've said all along. The letter will go nowhere. Looks like Michigan all over again.

[sharonw]

Sept 28, 2010 15:09:50 GMT -5 JO said:

Perhaps overseers don't realize that their failure to openly distance themselves from CSA puts them under suspicion of complicity.

Are they sorry CSA has crept into the ministry, or are they sorry its been exposed?

What we need from the ministry is moral clarity.

What exactly does it stand for?

And what does it stand against?

It would appear that since "some" of the workers are/were complicit in the moving around of these perps "to remove the temptation" from the offending workers, that it is a white elephant they don't quite know what to do with and I've heard enough of the workers say "If you don't know what to do, it's best to do nothing." Or as they've said to me, "If you can see yourself coming out on the other end of the situation in a position or place you don't desire, do nothing, don't go there."

It also appears that it is nearly impossible for all of the workers to understand what horrific damage CSA does to the victims, they think the child can grow up and forget it! It's beyond their comprehension, the pyschological damage there is.

[Linford Bledsoe]

I keep seeing the word child come up. What is the age bracket. Not old enough to say no? I detest the generalities of the posters. Some,many,most. come on get the mush out of your mouth

[Scott Ross]

Sept 28, 2010 15:52:17 GMT -5 Linford Bledsoe said:

It's not just the workers distancing themselves from this problem. The acts of these are 30-40 years old. Surely some of the friends knew about it, if not why was it hid? Don't say it was ignored.That only transfers the blame. That is why I've said all along. The letter will go nowhere. Looks like Michigan all over again.

Lin,

The letter may not get sent out in the form of a letter, but it HAS been sent out. After the publication of it here and on WINGS, an additional 12 that is TWELVE victims of the one worker have come forward. The letter has been photocopied and handed out. WINGS doesn't mind if the WINGS logo is removed at all. It has also been emailed between several professing families, and links to WINGS have been likewise sent by email.

Both the TMB and the BTS boards have seen a significant increase in registrations from people who live in the affected areas. Portions of the BTS board were opened for reading without registration also so those who were uncomfortable registering would be able to read there. If you have read on the BTS board, you will know that several workers have been in contact with the original lady who came forward expressing their support and expressing their concerns. You can read about that here:

wingsbts.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=lounge&action=display&thread=81

You seem to take issue with the letter having been published for some reason, and I was wondering if you could share why that is.

If this is Michigan all over, there will be a couple of convictions happen. Other than that similarity, this is nothing like Michigan. In this case, several victims have come forward to report abuse at the hands of workers. In the Michigan case, a few individuals accused a large number of people with abuse.

Do you have an issue with the letters that were sent out by Jerome Frandle, Ray Hoffman and Lyle Schober concerning abuse issues? If so, why?

In regard to:

It's not just the workers distancing themselves from this problem. The acts of these are 30-40 years old.

Are you referring to the one worker in regard to that statement? If so, you are incorrect. There have been instances reported concerning him less than 30 years ago, and he himself has admitted to abuse less than 30 years ago.

If you are referring to workers in general, just take a look at the convicted section on WINGS. There are 3 workers there regarding abuse which occurred within the last 5 years.

Scott

[Linford Bledsoe]

I have contacts in those areas as well and they are saying they have heard nothing. They also state that they have not seen any letter. I'm just saying it appears as if a lot is being done,when in reality it's not. For credibility we can't be shooting shadows. Why the need for letters if an investigation is supposedly being done. Just my thoughts.

[Scott Ross]

Sept 28, 2010 17:54:47 GMT -5 Linford Bledsoe said:

I have contacts in those areas as well and they are saying they have heard nothing. They also state that they have not seen any letter. I'm just saying it appears as if a lot is being done,when in reality it's not. For credibility we can't be shooting shadows. Why the need for letters if an investigation is supposedly being done. Just my thoughts.

You can read of the need by simply reading the letters that Jerome, Ray and Lyle sent out. If you notice in those letters, they were all meant to inform the church of the fact that workers had been reported as abusers. They were informative, open and let everyone know the same information. As such, there was no doubting the seriousness of the situation.

Here are those letters:

wingsfortruth.info/breakingthesilence.htm

Interesting observation that it appears nothing is going on. Maybe you overlooked the fact in my post:

After the publication of it here and on WINGS, an additional 12 that is TWELVE victims of the one worker have come forward

I highly doubt if any of those victims of this worker consider anyone to be 'shooting at shadows.

Do you have an issue with the letters that were sent out by Jerome Frandle, Ray Hoffman and Lyle Schober concerning abuse issues? If so, why?

Scott

[JO]

Sept 28, 2010 16:59:43 GMT -5 Linford Bledsoe said:

I keep seeing the word child come up. What is the age bracket. Not old enough to say no? I detest the generalities of the posters. Some,many,most. come on get the mush out of your mouth

Lin, there are many adults who won't accept that "God's true servants, the Lord's annointed" can have evil intentions.

Why would you expect a child, who has been taught all her life to revere the workers, to say no when a worker grooms her and tells her "this is our little secret"?

[Linford Bledsoe]

I don't have an issue with anything. I just wondered why we know so much,but those that live in those areas know nothing. If an investigation is ongoing it shouldn't take long to gather evidence. All they need is one charge to proceed. Previous post on here back up what I'm asking.

[rational]

Sept 28, 2010 16:59:43 GMT -5 Linford Bledsoe said:

I keep seeing the word child come up. What is the age bracket. Not old enough to say no? I detest the generalities of the posters. Some,many,most. come on get the mush out of your mouth

Minor child specific enough?

Very few, if any, are of latency age or younger.
Most are postpubescent.
How about adolescent?

Specific ages are less important than the developmental stage of the victim when accessing damage.

This has been my complaint when these criminals are referred to as pedophiles. It implies latency age children or younger. Child abuse is a terrible thing. But it can develop quickly into hysteria.
Look at this wikipedia entry:

Day care sex abuse hysteria

When this happens it does not benefit anyone and can end up harming the children even more.

[rational]

Sept 28, 2010 18:27:11 GMT -5 JO said:

Why would you expect a child, who has been taught all her life to revere the workers, to say no when a worker grooms her and tells her "this is our little secret"?

Why would a parent teach their child such a thing? Because they also need to be educated in these matters.

I would say that the parents did not provide the child with the education they needed.

[ronhall]

Sept 28, 2010 19:23:06 GMT -5 rational said:

Sept 28, 2010 18:27:11 GMT -5 JO said:

Why would you expect a child, who has been taught all her life to revere the workers, to say no when a worker grooms her and tells her "this is our little secret"?

Why would a parent teach their child such a thing? Because they also need to be educated in these matters.

I would say that the parents did not provide the child with the education they needed.

Sorrowfully, your statement is correct.

One of the things children inherently know is who they can trust and who they cannot trust. In a wholesome upbringing, as we all know, the ones they trust most are the parents and those the parents trust. In a professing home, that would just about automatically include the workers.

Now understandably, where there is an incidence of CSA perpetrated by a worker, the ripple effect is enormous. No only is the entire concept of trust altered by the "our little secret" negotiated agreement, but as the child matures and becomes aware of the immorality of it all, mistrust extends to the parents.

Likewise as parents become aware, mistrust extends to not only the specific worker, but to all workers in general. Then as this is communicated via letter or to an even wider audience such as the readers of this board, the general awareness and mistrust grows to infect a large number of the friends and workers.

Not only that, but you have the polarizing effect of those who believe it did happen vs those who believe it didn't happen because it couldn't happen.

Is it any wonder why so few outsiders attend more than one or two Gospel meetings? Is there anyone who would not check this way out before committing to it? After doing their homework, what would they find? As easy as this is to research, I would think the workers would be very aware also and wonder what is the point of going to the effort of holding Gospel meetings until this is effectively dealt with.

Modified to correct spelling.

[Deleted]

Great post Ron.

Parents want the best for their children. Because they believe that this way is the only way to God and that the workers alone are God's true servants, they indoctrinate their children with these things. The world is wrong. This way and the workers are good. Also the kids see their parents revere the workers and life becomes about pleasing the workers.

It is difficult to imagine a higher level of trust being breached. It is almost as if God himself is the perpetrator. That is why it is so hard to accept. No wonder many just don't want to know.

[Deleted]

Sept 28, 2010 19:23:06 GMT -5 rational said:

Sept 28, 2010 18:27:11 GMT -5 JO said:

Why would you expect a child, who has been taught all her life to revere the workers, to say no when a worker grooms her and tells her "this is our little secret"?

Why would a parent teach their child such a thing? Because they also need to be educated in these matters.

I would say that the parents did not provide the child with the education they needed.

Why would a parent teach their child such a thing, indeed?

When you consider this is the norm, almost without exception, then one word comes to mind - cult!

[sharonw]

Sept 29, 2010 4:53:46 GMT -5 @ram said:

Sept 28, 2010 19:23:06 GMT -5 rational said:

Why would a parent teach their child such a thing? Because they also need to be educated in these matters.

I would say that the parents did not provide the child with the education they needed.

Why would a parent teach their child such a thing, indeed?

When you consider this is the norm, almost without exception, then one word comes to mind - cult!

I have to say that most of these childrens' parents ALSO trust the workers to be above reproach simply BECAUSE that's what is held before them to believe....thus "WHEN" an abuse happens NOT ONLY is the child a victim of betrayal and psychological hurt, the parents feel betrayed as well....but the adults tend to reason it away as a onetime "fluke" found within the workers UNTIL they hear of multiple victims of same said worker.

Lin, you come off as you do NOT believe that CSA happens within the workership and also you come off as thinking IF it does, the worker(s) are NOT to be blamed....blame the parents, blame the children for it all! That is totally out of reason! "Child", for you and Rational both who think a child means a toddler not an adolescent ARE NOT taking into consideration, children born and raised in the fellowship are FAR MORE protected from the evils of mankind then you think so....they have NO idea how to purport themselves in any kind of adversity as they've watched their parents "just leave it up to God". Leaving things up to God is not what God gave us brains for but that is the way that the fellowship teaches people to react in all instances. The fellowship does NOT teach anyone how to face the evils of this world USING THE brains that God gave us. So thereby parents as well as their children are sitting ducks for manipulative offenders. The parents have no reason to believe that offenders abound within the workers "enough" to teach their children anything about offending abusers within the fellowship. I strongly think that parents have taught their children about such things coming to pass from people "in the world", but never can they begin to imagine that such evil is present within the workers who stand in the place of God before the members of the fellowship....as Ram said, what does that bring to mind?? Cult

[ronhall]

Sept 29, 2010 6:54:33 GMT -5 sharonw said:

Sept 29, 2010 4:53:46 GMT -5 @ram said:

Why would a parent teach their child such a thing, indeed?

When you consider this is the norm, almost without exception, then one word comes to mind - cult!

I have to say that most of these childrens' parents ALSO trust the workers to be above reproach simply BECAUSE that's what is held before them to believe....thus "WHEN" an abuse happens NOT ONLY is the child a victim of betrayal and psychological hurt, the parents feel betrayed as well....but the adults tend to reason it away as a onetime "fluke" found within the workers UNTIL they hear of multiple victims of same said worker.

Lin, you come off as you do NOT believe that CSA happens within the workership and also you come off as thinking IF it does, the worker(s) are NOT to be blamed....blame the parents, blame the children for it all! That is totally out of reason! "Child", for you and Rational both who think a child means a toddler not an adolescent ARE NOT taking into consideration, children born and raised in the fellowship are FAR MORE protected from the evils of mankind then you think so....they have NO idea how to purport themselves in any kind of adversity as they've watched their parents "just leave it up to God". Leaving things up to God is not what God gave us brains for but that is the way that the fellowship teaches people to react in all instances. The fellowship does NOT teach anyone how to face the evils of this world USING THE brains that God gave us. So thereby parents as well as their children are sitting ducks for manipulative offenders. The parents have no reason to believe that offenders abound within the workers "enough" to teach their children anything about offending abusers within the fellowship. I strongly think that parents have taught their children about such things coming to pass from people "in the world", but never can they begin to imagine that such evil is present within the workers who stand in the place of God before the members of the fellowship....as Ram said, what does that bring to mind?? Cult

While it is true that in a fully functional professing family the children are protected from outside influences, I have noted quite a range of this outside protection.

Especially in the current times, there are few families that can 'make it' with just one income. A normal pattern is for the mother to drop out of her employment situation late in the pregnancy, then stay relatively unemployed until the youngest is out of the toddler stage, say three or four. Kids this age usually do well in a day-care environment where they can interact socially with many peers and mature extensively in the process. It also provides a 'bridge' into the world that they are destined to inhabit later in life but with limits and controls.

I believe the scriptures are quite instructive on this issue, e.g., Samuel and even our Lord and Savior, Jesus, who at about twelve was able to converse intelligently with the rulers of the temple on historical and spiritual matters. To be able to do this, I cannot believe this was the first time he was more than an arm's reach of his mother!

As a side note, I am amazed at how well our young families in our area raise their children. These kids are well behaved, respectful and happy. This does not happen automatically. The parents don't attempt to get through this alone. They read and share child rearing books, network extensively with others, trade toys and clothes. Some attend the public school system, some are home schooled -- it depends upon the family -- but even the ones who attend the public schools get extensive home schooling.

This is all being effectively done by young professing parents undergoing the same pressures, troubles and temptations as anyone in the general population endures, or submits to, whatever the case. Obviously there is a spiritual communication occurring that is complemented by the social network of the friends. Looks like a win-win situation, to me!

[sharonw]

Rat, I'm not sure where you've looked at professing families, but in no way are any of the children brought up in our area well equipped to "just know" that NOT ONLY are there abusers in the worldly arena but as much likely to be in the friends AND workers much more.

It just isn't thought of, nor is it taught to children....they're brought up thinking that what the workers do and say is just okey-dokey, regardless.

[rational]

Sept 28, 2010 23:10:51 GMT -5 ronhall said:

Sorrowfully, your statement is correct.

One of the things children inherently know is who they can trust and who they cannot trust.

Other than its parents, there is little that a child inherently knows regarding who can be and who cannot be trusted.

Trust is at first learned and later people have to earn it.

[rational]

Sept 29, 2010 4:53:46 GMT -5 @ram said:

Sept 28, 2010 19:23:06 GMT -5 rational said:

Why would a parent teach their child such a thing? Because they also need to be educated in these matters.

I would say that the parents did not provide the child with the education they needed.

Why would a parent teach their child such a thing, indeed?

When you consider this is the norm, almost without exception, then one word comes to mind - cult!

This is not a 2x2 problem but a problem that comes with parents not being educated as to where the danger lurks and then the parents not teaching their children specifically what is OK and what is not OK. It is the problem that arises when the focus is on the trying to identify potential abusers rather than focusing on the crime itself and making certain that children will go screaming to adults in the area when the behavior is noticed.

We are not talking about pedophiles but usually hebephiles or ephebophiles and their victims can certainly make the problems known if they have been taught, in no uncertain terms, what is problematic behavior, not based on the perpetrator but on the act.