Byron
Senior Member
VIA Admin
Posts: 220
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Post by Byron on Jul 20, 2010 12:59:56 GMT -5
Another scream in the dark has surfaced.
Having read countless different accounts of horrific abuse levied on hapless victims of the 2x2 system for some years now, you would think after digesting yet another tale of abuse you would fail to feel the wrenching pain in your belly.
Not so.
This latest narrative chills one to the bone, and is presented with such heartfelt authenticity it serves to reiterate how imperative it is to wage spiritual warfare against those who perpetrate such crimes on innocent children.
www.votisalive.com/content/was-long-time-coming-rest-story
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Post by Happy Feet on Jul 20, 2010 19:06:42 GMT -5
Yet another brave person has come out in the open. Lets put a stop to this behaviour and make workers and others accountable.
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Post by rational on Jul 20, 2010 21:46:08 GMT -5
This latest narrative chills one to the bone, and is presented with such heartfelt authenticity it serves to reiterate how imperative it is to wage spiritual warfare against those who perpetrate such crimes on innocent children. I don't see spiritual warfare as the way to go or as being at all effective. Educating people will be far more effective. Teaching children exactly what they need to know instead of talking around the facts. Giving them permission to come forward with any concern without fear. |
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Post by sharonw on Jul 21, 2010 7:27:03 GMT -5
This latest narrative chills one to the bone, and is presented with such heartfelt authenticity it serves to reiterate how imperative it is to wage spiritual warfare against those who perpetrate such crimes on innocent children. I don't see spiritual warfare as the way to go or as being at all effective. Educating people will be far more effective. Teaching children exactly what they need to know instead of talking around the facts. Giving them permission to come forward with any concern without fear. I think that educating the children and keeping the children free to speak to their parents of what goes on and doing so immediately when it happens is good. That said, as I've found in adults there are just some personalities that seem to be sitting ducks for people like these perps who somehow, someway, know how to manipulate things in their own favor and the victims are hit unwarily. Also the fellowship has this fiery indoctrination that the workers are to be trusted, they are perfect, they are unreproachable...they are as God on earth for they've given up ALL. This indoctrination, even though it is never written, needs to stop. The workers need to become servants in EVERY ONE'S EYES! JMO |
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 21, 2010 8:24:23 GMT -5
Not just educating children.Educate parents first. Educated children are the result of educated parents. Thanks Byron for posting this. It's very evident the parents were out of touch.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 21, 2010 8:47:17 GMT -5
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Byron
Senior Member
VIA Admin
Posts: 220
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Post by Byron on Jul 21, 2010 11:25:47 GMT -5
It is gratifying to know many workers have taken training though Ministry Safe. I wonder how many workers have read the other website links you provided?
I am surprised the workers would associate with other ministries at all, as these other churches are false churches.
VOT will be more than happy to publish a list of names of workers who have taken this training and help exonerate those who are taking a stand against sexual abuse within the 2x2 church.
This is indeed good news that the workers are being so proactive in sensitivity training.
The caveat in a quote from the letter sent to the victim from Ed Alexander this week, clearly states that Eldon Tenniswood was aware 24 years ago and shared that information with Ed Alexander.
“I was with Eldon Tenniswood (our overseer at the time) in 1986 when he first heard of the allegations against _ _ _ _ _, and, even though he didn’t share very many details of the situation, I remember so clearly the distress that it caused him and his immediate attention to the problem.”
Immediate attention???
In this particular case, your last link is not applicable. This was not a false accusation, and I quote from the victims’ account,
“As far as workers knowing about what happened to me, they do. Here's the names of a few that I KNOW are aware of it and a few that I vaugely remember hearing that they knew about it. Karen Bone, Richard Middleton, Richard Wulf, Harold Hilton, Virginia Richmond, Virginia Boyd and I would HOPE several more!”
24 long years for the victim to scream in the dark. Now that is proactive.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 21, 2010 12:15:38 GMT -5
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Post by sharonw on Jul 21, 2010 13:35:24 GMT -5
Not just educating children.Educate parents first. Educated children are the result of educated parents. Thanks Byron for posting this. It's very evident the parents were out of touch. Please,. why are you blaming the parents...these parents were quick to take care of the problem AFTER it happened, they did not doubt the child's side of it....what more could they have done? Yes, they should have told the authorities, but then sometimes parents feel like the children do not need to face the questioning that is usually routine with this...there's the maybe the counselor they took they child to told them it might be best...the story doesn't say the why it was not taken to the authorities at the time, but it definitely said the parents believed the child. That's one of the hardest things for parents in the fellowship to do, is to believe tha child AFTER having been well versed in the fact that "workers are trustworthy"....they're the only ones in the world that are trustworthy! This is the problem...maybe when people get it into their heads that workers are just like everybody else and maybe more tempted in these things maybe there will be young parents ready to watch for such things...and yes, these things happen wherever there are people...it's just the evil coming out in humans, is all. |
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 21, 2010 13:55:04 GMT -5
Parents are responsible for their own house,and their own children. We just recently had a conversation with our son and daughter in law about these very things. The problem is not solved by wringing our hands and pointing the finger at the workers. That is a cop out. We have to take the bull by the horns and say enough is enough.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 21, 2010 14:32:12 GMT -5
Sharon the problem is the problem wasn't taken care of, that's why we are reading about it now. Read the 1991 sister worker letter and notice how reporting to the law can prevent something that appears to be taken care of from simmering and blowing up decades later. Running it through the law can help with that. It might be the most compassionate action as far as both parties are concerned. Here's an interesting discussion; -> In abuse cases, church rules aren’t enough — call police |
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Post by sharonw on Jul 21, 2010 15:58:45 GMT -5
Sharon the problem is the problem wasn't taken care of, that's why we are reading about it now. Read the 1991 sister worker letter and notice how reporting to the law can prevent something that appears to be taken care of from simmering and blowing up decades later. Running it through the law can help with that. It might be the most compassionate action as far as both parties are concerned. Here's an interesting discussion; -> In abuse cases, church rules aren’t enough — call police Jesse, in my whole lifetime..."NOT taking a brother before the magistrate" has been preached lots and loudly. This is why these things have NOT been taken to authorities. AND IF anyone has ever been the victim, they would know that the victims are made to feel it is their fault! That's why victims don't feel free to tell or report and back 30 yrs. ago it wasn't foolproof that an abuse victim would get by without being made to feel even more the guilty! That's a fact! |
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Post by emy on Jul 21, 2010 17:08:53 GMT -5
Also the fellowship has this fiery indoctrination that the workers are to be trusted, they are perfect, they are unreproachable...they are as God on earth for they've given up ALL. This indoctrination, even though it is never written, needs to stop. The workers need to become servants in EVERY ONE'S EYES! JMO This is just not true in most cases. It has not been my experience at all, and I think I have been in enough places to have a fairly balanced picture of the friends and workers in our country. My experience in other countries is limited. Please be careful with that broad brush.  |
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Post by Sylvestra on Jul 21, 2010 17:12:58 GMT -5
Also the fellowship has this fiery indoctrination that the workers are to be trusted, they are perfect, they are unreproachable...they are as God on earth for they've given up ALL. This indoctrination, even though it is never written, needs to stop. The workers need to become servants in EVERY ONE'S EYES! JMO This is just not true in most cases. It has not been my experience at all, and I think I have been in enough places to have a fairly balanced picture of the friends and workers in our country. My experience in other countries is limited. Please be careful with that broad brush. emy, I'm glad to hear that things are better where you are than in the Western USA! Truly, I mean that! E |
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Post by emy on Jul 21, 2010 17:16:15 GMT -5
Jesse, in my whole lifetime..."NOT taking a brother before the magistrate" has been preached lots and loudly. This is why these things have NOT been taken to authorities. AND IF anyone has ever been the victim, they would know that the victims are made to feel it is their fault! That's why victims don't feel free to tell or report and back 30 yrs. ago it wasn't foolproof that an abuse victim would get by without being made to feel even more the guilty! That's a fact! Going to the district attorney would be considered "the authorities", right? Did you notice this statement? |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 21, 2010 17:16:40 GMT -5
Jesse, in my whole lifetime..."NOT taking a brother before the magistrate" has been preached lots and loudly. This is why these things have NOT been taken to authorities. AND IF anyone has ever been the victim, they would know that the victims are made to feel it is their fault! That's why victims don't feel free to tell or report and back 30 yrs. ago it wasn't foolproof that an abuse victim would get by without being made to feel even more the guilty! That's a fact! I never heard that preached lots and loudly, I'm not that much younger than you. And if you read the 1991 letter these things have been taken to the authorities, nearly 20 years ago. But sometimes people have the tendancy to dwell on just what's bad while ignoring any good - that is a fact. Why people do that is the interesting question. |
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Post by emy on Jul 21, 2010 17:18:33 GMT -5
emy, I'm glad to hear that things are better where you are than in the Western USA! Truly, I mean that! E I'm glad, too. Thanks. One of the places I have spent some time over several years has been in the Western USA. It seemed no different to me. I also have close relatives who have lived there many years. |
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Post by sharonw on Jul 21, 2010 17:22:51 GMT -5
Also the fellowship has this fiery indoctrination that the workers are to be trusted, they are perfect, they are unreproachable...they are as God on earth for they've given up ALL. This indoctrination, even though it is never written, needs to stop. The workers need to become servants in EVERY ONE'S EYES! JMO This is just not true in most cases. It has not been my experience at all, and I think I have been in enough places to have a fairly balanced picture of the friends and workers in our country. My experience in other countries is limited. Please be careful with that broad brush. If all would pay attention to ALL I wrote, to say it is a broad brush is a lie! LOOK AT THE END OF THE STATEMENT! |
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Post by sharonw on Jul 21, 2010 17:29:50 GMT -5
Jesse, in my whole lifetime..."NOT taking a brother before the magistrate" has been preached lots and loudly. This is why these things have NOT been taken to authorities. AND IF anyone has ever been the victim, they would know that the victims are made to feel it is their fault! That's why victims don't feel free to tell or report and back 30 yrs. ago it wasn't foolproof that an abuse victim would get by without being made to feel even more the guilty! That's a fact! I never heard that preached lots and loudly, I'm not that much younger than you. And if you read the 1991 letter these things have been taken to the authorities, nearly 20 years ago. But sometimes people have the tendancy to dwell on just what's bad while ignoring any good - that is a fact. Why people do that is the interesting question. Jesse, 1991 is NOT 30 yrs ago! Things changed quickly within the investigative officers dealing with these things. Back 30 yrs. ago there was not very many highly trained officers to deal with children in these issues in a lot of places, they were not as "sensitive" to the children as they are now. Can you not understand that the authorities that the YOUNG 17 yr. old girl faced perhaps laid it out before her as to what she might have to face in a court of law? Do you not credit the young lady for making the ONLY decision she could handle at the time? DO not make it worse on the victims of so many years ago because there was little recourse for them! Little "sensitivity" in the investigative and legal questioning that there is at the present! Yes, in the larger cities there perhaps were a few educated legal eagles that would have carefully handled the situation as they do these days, but that might have been 1 out of 10 people the poor victim would have had to face....think about it. What goes these days did not necessarily and very seldom did 30 yrs. ago. |
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Post by sharonw on Jul 21, 2010 17:32:36 GMT -5
Jesse, in my whole lifetime..."NOT taking a brother before the magistrate" has been preached lots and loudly. This is why these things have NOT been taken to authorities. AND IF anyone has ever been the victim, they would know that the victims are made to feel it is their fault! That's why victims don't feel free to tell or report and back 30 yrs. ago it wasn't foolproof that an abuse victim would get by without being made to feel even more the guilty! That's a fact! I never heard that preached lots and loudly, I'm not that much younger than you. And if you read the 1991 letter these things have been taken to the authorities, nearly 20 years ago. But sometimes people have the tendancy to dwell on just what's bad while ignoring any good - that is a fact. Why people do that is the interesting question. \ It is also interesting that the devout still want to sideline the point of the silent screams in the dark as well! |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 21, 2010 17:50:12 GMT -5
Sharon that' s pretty nasty. But I know what you say about me doesn't stand a chance if Jesus is my intercessor in the face of my accusers. So carry on.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 21, 2010 17:56:38 GMT -5
And to clarify a 1986 pre court date and a 1991 after court date is pretty much the same time frame and it's not 30 years ago.
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Post by sharonw on Jul 21, 2010 18:00:30 GMT -5
Jesse, in my whole lifetime..."NOT taking a brother before the magistrate" has been preached lots and loudly. This is why these things have NOT been taken to authorities. AND IF anyone has ever been the victim, they would know that the victims are made to feel it is their fault! That's why victims don't feel free to tell or report and back 30 yrs. ago it wasn't foolproof that an abuse victim would get by without being made to feel even more the guilty! That's a fact! Going to the district attorney would be considered "the authorities", right? Did you notice this statement? Emy, as expected you stressed the part of the sentence that was not the young 17 y/o's answer to the "why" At that age I chose not to go into a courtroom full of strangers & tell them of the horrible things above that he had done to meThat which I bolded IS the young 17 y/o's answer to why she did NOT decide to press charges....and as I've tried to get you all to remember that 30 yrs. ago the "sensitivity" was not within very many of the authorities that handled these affairs, and I would have to say that the attorney they spoke to just laid it out before them as to HOW IT WAS APT TO GO for her! She still was NOT able to do this on her own strength as she is now, 30 yrs. later. |
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Post by ronhall on Jul 21, 2010 18:10:26 GMT -5
Sharon the problem is the problem wasn't taken care of, that's why we are reading about it now. Read the 1991 sister worker letter and notice how reporting to the law can prevent something that appears to be taken care of from simmering and blowing up decades later. Running it through the law can help with that. It might be the most compassionate action as far as both parties are concerned. Here's an interesting discussion; -> In abuse cases, church rules aren’t enough — call police Jesse, in my whole lifetime..." NOT taking a brother before the magistrate" has been preached lots and loudly. This is why these things have NOT been taken to authorities. AND IF anyone has ever been the victim, they would know that the victims are made to feel it is their fault! That's why victims don't feel free to tell or report and back 30 yrs. ago it wasn't foolproof that an abuse victim would get by without being made to feel even more the guilty! That's a fact! The chapter for our Wed eve Bible study a month or so ago contained this passage. While there were no workers present at the study I attended, this subject was covered as an absolute, no whys or wherefores issue by one of the older, more strict attendees. What is interesting is the reasoning that in the future the Lord's people will judge the earth and how are they to do this if they cannot take care of judging amongst themselves in the present. Even more interesting is the last where it indicates it would be better to be defrauded than to go to a worldly court for justice. In case this is of interest, I'll quote the passage in 1 Cor 6. Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather [suffer yourselves to] be defrauded? |
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Post by sharonw on Jul 21, 2010 18:21:11 GMT -5
Jesse, in my whole lifetime..." NOT taking a brother before the magistrate" has been preached lots and loudly. This is why these things have NOT been taken to authorities. AND IF anyone has ever been the victim, they would know that the victims are made to feel it is their fault! That's why victims don't feel free to tell or report and back 30 yrs. ago it wasn't foolproof that an abuse victim would get by without being made to feel even more the guilty! That's a fact! The chapter for our Wed eve Bible study a month or so ago contained this passage. While there were no workers present at the study I attended, this subject was covered as an absolute, no whys or wherefores issue by one of the older, more strict attendees. What is interesting is the reasoning that in the future the Lord's people will judge the earth and how are they to do this if they cannot take care of judging amongst themselves in the present. Even more interesting is the last where it indicates it would be better to be defrauded than to go to a worldly court for justice. In case this is of interest, I'll quote the passage in 1 Cor 6. Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather [suffer yourselves to] be defrauded? Thank you, Ronhall for posting this! Jesus gave us the way to deal with these things within the church, but the fellowship doesn't often use it...or at least I've haven't heard of them using it! Mt. 18 are the instructions....however are we not also told to obey the laws of the land? So in order to do that when a real crime is committed then we have to turn it over to the laws of the land and those in authority of those laws, do we not? |
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Post by sharonw on Jul 21, 2010 18:24:00 GMT -5
Sharon that' s pretty nasty. But I know what you say about me doesn't stand a chance if Jesus is my intercessor in the face of my accusers. So carry on. And this isn't? ." But sometimes people have the tendancy to dwell on just what's bad while ignoring any good - that is a fact. Why people do that is the interesting question. " quote Jesse |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 21, 2010 18:31:56 GMT -5
Sharon that was a general observation not specifically directed at you. I thought your statement was specifically to me. If it wasn't and was a general statement I'm sorry I took it that way. The thing is I hear the silent screams louder than anyone here might realise.
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Post by sharonw on Jul 21, 2010 18:34:34 GMT -5
Sharon that was a general observation not specifically directed at you. I thought your statement was specifically to me. If it wasn't and was a general statement I'm sorry I took it that way. The thing is I hear the silent screams louder than anyone here might realise. Thank you, Jesse, I'm glad you admitted that! That helps the victims more then you probably realize! |
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