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Post by snow on Jul 21, 2014 20:15:23 GMT -5
Hi and thank you to everyone for the board and the discussions. This has been so helpful for me in the past year or so to hear others express what I didn't know how to and to feel less alone in my struggles to understand what exactly I was B&R in (still in). This is terrifying to register here, esp. after reading some of the stories of people being excommunicated for weird reasons. What if I'm found out? Don't worry- I'm not important or interesting. Just so many what-ifs about so many things have been in my head. Beliefs: that I don't know everything anymore, and that even though I have always felt love and sympathy for people and judging is my least favorite verb, I still feel like an arrogant jerk for ever believing that anyone who didn't stand up in a gospel meeting is going to hell. Or that the way of Christ is ONLY one specific sect of Christians. I'm sorry to everyone for that. And I'm mad. And I get that we're all victims and no one alive started the living way doctrine. But at what point do people start taking responsibility and start correcting things and having the courage to actually say, out loud, in front of a group that x y and z are wrong and we are sorry for our responsibility in it? I'm just in that murky spot where there is a lot of uncertainty about what is the right thing to do. I have determined that prayer alone is disappointing to God. But I am a total coward and what change could I possibly make anyway? I welcomed you on another thread, but I will do it again here. I realize the challenges when you start to question the Truth especially when B&R. Even when I quit professing I still thought it just might be the only true way, I just didn't think it was a good way and I decided that even though I was probably risking going to hell, I couldn't support the God of the bible anymore. But mostly it started with my questioning the workers about people outside of the Truth that were good, but going to hell and why they believed that and if it was true, why God would allow such a thing. I was 12. I had professed at 8 years of age and was quite zealous until I started getting older and questioning more. Once you start having questions, it can get very confusing and I understand that pretty good too. So I hope that your time here will be helpful for you. I hope it answers some questions you may have and get some insight into the various reasons why people left and their stories. When I found this board I had been out of the Truth for over 40 years. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would find the friends online. When I left radios and TV's were outlawed so I didn't even consider it was possible for them to have computers and be on the internet. I have learned many things I never knew since I came here. I felt very alone when I quit professing. No one I knew had quit. Now it seems there is more support, but still some of the problems I experienced with family etc. Anyway, I'm rambling so again good to have you here. |
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Post by faune on Jul 21, 2014 23:33:08 GMT -5
Withlove ~ I just want to welcome you to TMB and tell you how much I appreciated what you shared on another thread about your recent experiences this past year.  I would also like to share my own story as an outsider who professed around 15 years old and stayed within the fold for about 30 years before departing for good. My story was written three years ago to share on Cherie Kropp's public TLC site along with a number of other ex-members of the 2x2's. She's also the founder behind the historical Telling the Truth (TTT) site which is filled with all kinds of information on the 2x2's. In case you want to explore the experiences of others who have traveled down the same road, this would be a good start, IMHO?
www.thelibertyconnection.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=178:gerber-faune-fuller&catid=5:recent-exit-stories&Itemid=6 The Liberty Connection ~ public information site on 2x2's
www.tellingthetruth.info/home/ Telling the Truth ~ historical information site on 2x2's |
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Post by withlove on Jul 21, 2014 23:57:55 GMT -5
Thank you, faune! Very sweet of you. I will check that out! |
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Post by faune on Jul 22, 2014 0:06:55 GMT -5
Thank you, faune! Very sweet of you. I will check that out! I'm sure you won't be disappointed, but will experience a greater bond with others who have traveled a similar path and know how it feels. |
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Post by withlove on Jul 22, 2014 0:11:54 GMT -5
Ok. That would be wonderful. Honestly, I don't know where I'm headed with this search. I'm just confused. But I know more than I ever did when I wasn't confused, and that is encouraging and scary. Ha! I'm afraid of derailing this bio thread. That's why I started the other one. Anyway, ty for the links and wishes and I'm sure they will help. |
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Post by Admin on Jul 22, 2014 8:13:21 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't know where I'm headed with this search. I'm just confused. But I know more than I ever did when I wasn't confused, and that is encouraging and scary. Welcome, withlove. That's a great quote "But I know more than I ever did when I wasn't confused", we know exactly what you mean! Every blessing to you on your exciting search, and keep dropping in here to tell us of your discoveries. Here's some inspiration from Eph.1 (NRSV): Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 just as he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before him in love. 5 He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace that he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace 8 that he lavished on us.
"... the riches of his grace that he lavished on us" Blessings, admin |
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Post by mdm on Jul 22, 2014 10:50:23 GMT -5
Hi and thank you to everyone for the board and the discussions. This has been so helpful for me in the past year or so to hear others express what I didn't know how to and to feel less alone in my struggles to understand what exactly I was B&R in (still in). This is terrifying to register here, esp. after reading some of the stories of people being excommunicated for weird reasons. What if I'm found out? Don't worry- I'm not important or interesting. Just so many what-ifs about so many things have been in my head. Beliefs: that I don't know everything anymore, and that even though I have always felt love and sympathy for people and judging is my least favorite verb, I still feel like an arrogant jerk for ever believing that anyone who didn't stand up in a gospel meeting is going to hell. Or that the way of Christ is ONLY one specific sect of Christians. I'm sorry to everyone for that. And I'm mad. And I get that we're all victims and no one alive started the living way doctrine. But at what point do people start taking responsibility and start correcting things and having the courage to actually say, out loud, in front of a group that x y and z are wrong and we are sorry for our responsibility in it? I'm just in that murky spot where there is a lot of uncertainty about what is the right thing to do. I have determined that prayer alone is disappointing to God. But I am a total coward and what change could I possibly make anyway? Welcome to the board, withlove! Your post reminds me of the time I quite exasperatedly told a worker that it bothers me that "friends" think that nobody outside of their church can have a relationship with God or live for God, and that I had a relationship with God and tried to live for Him long before I ever met F&W. Her response was: "Tell them about it!" So, maybe your doing aside from praying can be gently telling people about your understanding regarding exclusivity? (My husband and I have since left the F&W church - not over exclusivity, but over the ministry's unwillingness to set up CSA guidelines to protect children in the fellowship, over allowing those found in sexual immorality to remain in the ministry, over their unwillingness to be transparent and accountable to the fellowship, and over the "friends'" unwillingness to openly discuss these issues with the workers.) |
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Post by withlove on Jul 22, 2014 16:33:51 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't know where I'm headed with this search. I'm just confused. But I know more than I ever did when I wasn't confused, and that is encouraging and scary. Welcome, withlove. That's a great quote "But I know more than I ever did when I wasn't confused", we know exactly what you mean! Every blessing to you on your exciting search, and keep dropping in here to tell us of your discoveries. Here's some inspiration from Eph.1 (NRSV): Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 just as he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before him in love. 5 He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace that he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace 8 that he lavished on us.
"... the riches of his grace that he lavished on us" Blessings, admin Thank you so much. You probably understand that one scary thing is the feeling of...what/who do I belong to if I leave....am I alone and orphaned? So that passage is answering it. I belong to Him. Still. Logically it is so obvious...you hear people talking about leaving other cults and you think: wake up! They don't hold your salvation. But it's hard to apply to myself. Thank you! |
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Post by withlove on Jul 22, 2014 16:40:51 GMT -5
Hi and thank you to everyone for the board and the discussions. This has been so helpful for me in the past year or so to hear others express what I didn't know how to and to feel less alone in my struggles to understand what exactly I was B&R in (still in). This is terrifying to register here, esp. after reading some of the stories of people being excommunicated for weird reasons. What if I'm found out? Don't worry- I'm not important or interesting. Just so many what-ifs about so many things have been in my head. Beliefs: that I don't know everything anymore, and that even though I have always felt love and sympathy for people and judging is my least favorite verb, I still feel like an arrogant jerk for ever believing that anyone who didn't stand up in a gospel meeting is going to hell. Or that the way of Christ is ONLY one specific sect of Christians. I'm sorry to everyone for that. And I'm mad. And I get that we're all victims and no one alive started the living way doctrine. But at what point do people start taking responsibility and start correcting things and having the courage to actually say, out loud, in front of a group that x y and z are wrong and we are sorry for our responsibility in it? I'm just in that murky spot where there is a lot of uncertainty about what is the right thing to do. I have determined that prayer alone is disappointing to God. But I am a total coward and what change could I possibly make anyway? Welcome to the board, withlove! Your post reminds me of the time I quite exasperatedly told a worker that it bothers me that "friends" think that nobody outside of their church can have a relationship with God or live for God, and that I had a relationship with God and tried to live for Him long before I ever met F&W. Her response was: "Tell them about it!" So, maybe your doing aside from praying can be gently telling people about your understanding regarding exclusivity? (My husband and I have since left the F&W church - not over exclusivity, but over the ministry's unwillingness to set up CSA guidelines to protect children in the fellowship, over allowing those found in sexual immorality to remain in the ministry, over their unwillingness to be transparent and accountable to the fellowship, and over the "friends'" unwillingness to openly discuss these issues with the workers.) Maja, I have read some of your story and posts and have so much respect for you. You were brave and did say things. The reasons you mention are huge, and also my reasons. You are a hero in my book. I have mentioned the exclusivity issue with a few people, and all but one immediately glazed over with the thought-stopping. I'm afraid to be treated like Brandon, and I hate myself for being afraid of that. Am trying to learn from people like you. |
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Post by Admin on Jul 22, 2014 17:14:30 GMT -5
Thank you so much. You probably understand that one scary thing is the feeling of...what/who do I belong to if I leave....am I alone and orphaned? So that passage is answering it. I belong to Him. Still. Logically it is so obvious...you hear people talking about leaving other cults and you think: wake up! They don't hold your salvation. But it's hard to apply to myself. Thank you! Thank YOU, withlove. You perhaps don't realize it, but your coming on here at this stage of your spiritual journey and sharing with us, is a big encouragement to us also. Here is more assurance of WHO you belong to, and you are surely NOT alone, but part of God's amazing church on earth, in fellowship with the Holy Spirit and with all who are sealed by Him. All one In Christ! 1 Cor 1:2,3 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:admin |
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Post by withlove on Jul 22, 2014 18:00:46 GMT -5
No one tells you there is fellowship and sincere divine love on the internet. They tell you this kind of site and the people on it are tools of the devil. Can't put into words what you all are doing for my heart. I'm a mess of gratitude and brokenness. Thankyou.
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Post by mdm on Jul 23, 2014 3:26:44 GMT -5
Welcome to the board, withlove! Your post reminds me of the time I quite exasperatedly told a worker that it bothers me that "friends" think that nobody outside of their church can have a relationship with God or live for God, and that I had a relationship with God and tried to live for Him long before I ever met F&W. Her response was: "Tell them about it!" So, maybe your doing aside from praying can be gently telling people about your understanding regarding exclusivity? (My husband and I have since left the F&W church - not over exclusivity, but over the ministry's unwillingness to set up CSA guidelines to protect children in the fellowship, over allowing those found in sexual immorality to remain in the ministry, over their unwillingness to be transparent and accountable to the fellowship, and over the "friends'" unwillingness to openly discuss these issues with the workers.) Maja, I have read some of your story and posts and have so much respect for you. You were brave and did say things. The reasons you mention are huge, and also my reasons. You are a hero in my book. I have mentioned the exclusivity issue with a few people, and all but one immediately glazed over with the thought-stopping. I'm afraid to be treated like Brandon, and I hate myself for being afraid of that. Am trying to learn from people like you. I have to say that we ourselves were not treated like Brandon, even though we dealt with the same overseer. Doubt that Brandon would have been excommunicated had he only brought up his concerns in private conversations as opposed to in fellowship meetings. Although, come to think of it, we did say quite a bit in meetings as well, just not at a convention. Don't hate yourself for having fears - we all do If there was an immediate and urgent matter at hand, I'm sure you would be brave enough to say or do whatever was necessary |
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Post by swarupa on Jul 21, 2015 23:22:12 GMT -5
A warm greeting to all of you, my name is Warren L Wagner and my Spiritual name is NayaSwami Swarupa Warren. Naya- means new Swami means one who teaches. Swarupa means one who seeks truth. These words come from Sanskrit language. All my life I have been a searcher of truth, and found it did not come from Religion. But from an inner truth of knowledge that indeed I am a child of God. The prove of this comes from the knowledge I have a soul, that lives on and on. Why, because It comes from a loving power and creator power that vibrates in all of us. My mother was a member of the Way, and I professed at age 8 and continued until age of 26. I was drafted into the Army at age 20,and enjoyed my time with the friends in Texas and Oklahoma. When I was stationed in Oklahoma, the Overseer Worker told me I was not to mix with the Texas friends as he did not want Oklahoma friends to be contaminated by the worldly Texas friends. I continued visiting also in Texas, as I had made some good friends in Texas and also had an Uncle in San Antonio. My goal when I left the Army was to enter the work. Upon discharge I went to preps at Ronan Convention grounds. While there the head worker received a letter from the head worker from Okl. naming many infarctions and most of all Disobedience. Needless to say the worker would not listen to my side of the situation and I left after convention. After that the rumors flew, and after awhile I told a worker I had enough abuse and was leaving the Way. Through the years I sought truth in religion, and did not find in there, I became interested only in spirituality, and that is where I remain today. I have forgiven all who I felt I needed to forgive, and only request forgiveness for any wrong I may have done, or offended anyone. May peace and love be your guide in seekng SPIRITUALITY. This IS MY final will and testament at age 73. |
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Post by swarupa on Jul 24, 2015 9:31:09 GMT -5
we must have been at Fort Sam the same time Dennis, do you remember the young worker James Stripp that was there. I had the most wonderful time while , I had a uncle who lived in San Antonio, so spent a lot of off time there , in their swimming pool. IT WAS so hot there. Remember the wonderful friends and mtgs. I attended. Remember visiting the Coker family and eating watermelon on the front porch. Two of their girls went into the work I do believe. After fort Sam it was fort sill the rest of my tour. a young friend from Oregon joined, Jim Hoffman. we bought a pink car so we could travel around. Charlie Mitchell advised us to take the radio antenna off. there was no radios or TV those days,. he wanted complete control of his flock. we was advised not to travel to the fiends in Texas. I did any way and was advised later I could not enter the work in Montana because of my disobedience to a worker.
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Post by Mary on Jul 24, 2015 18:27:06 GMT -5
What an interesting journey you have had through life. Look forward to hearing your input on the main discussion board.
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Post by whitecaps on Mar 1, 2016 12:42:11 GMT -5
Hi everyone, this is a two-part post.
First, a brief sketch about me: I was born and raised in the Truth, but never professed. Started questioning my beliefs and role in the group when I was about 15 or 16, and then became an atheist at 18 where I have been ever since (now 32, so 14-15 years depending on how the cookie crumbles). I have a degree in geology, a fairly nuanced understanding of Western philosophy, and a prevailing interest in all religions from a spiritual, cultural, historical, and literary perspective. My favourite book of the Bible is Ecclesiastes. Feel free to ask me any question if you so desire.
Second, the real reason for my visit here today, and perhaps something that will violate the rules of this thread (though it seems presumptuous to create an entirely new thread as a new member) - some questions.
Around 2002-2003 after I became an atheist, I found a similar message board to this one and I posted on it quite regularly for a couple of years. Is this that board, or its successor? I forget the name of the board, and I even forget my own username from that board, but a cursory glance around the forum reveals a few names I recognize (i.e. Dennis, Jason, rational) so there must be some overlap somewhere. Also, does anyone know what ever became of that forum's admins, MsPeaches and MrApples? I had always appreciated their kindness, good judgment, and nobility, as evidenced by remembering them some 12 years later.
Thanks!
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Apples
Junior Member
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Post by Apples on Mar 1, 2016 12:55:55 GMT -5
Hi everyone, this is a two-part post. First, a brief sketch about me: I was born and raised in the Truth, but never professed. Started questioning my beliefs and role in the group when I was about 15 or 16, and then became an atheist at 18 where I have been ever since (now 32, so 14-15 years depending on how the cookie crumbles). I have a degree in geology, a fairly nuanced understanding of Western philosophy, and a prevailing interest in all religions from a spiritual, cultural, historical, and literary perspective. My favourite book of the Bible is Ecclesiastes. Feel free to ask me any question if you so desire. Second, the real reason for my visit here today, and perhaps something that will violate the rules of this thread (though it seems presumptuous to create an entirely new thread as a new member) - some questions. Around 2002-2003 after I became an atheist, I found a similar message board to this one and I posted on it quite regularly for a couple of years. Is this that board, or its successor? I forget the name of the board, and I even forget my own username from that board, but a cursory glance around the forum reveals a few names I recognize (i.e. Dennis, Jason, rational) so there must be some overlap somewhere. Also, does anyone know what ever became of that forum's admins, MsPeaches and MrApples? I had always appreciated their kindness, good judgment, and nobility, as evidenced by remembering them some 12 years later. Thanks! You could look here: Common Ground Message Board |
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Post by whitecaps on Mar 1, 2016 13:04:18 GMT -5
Ah, is that you, MrApples? And thank you for the link - the Common Ground name twigs a memory. Unfortunately, that board looks like a bit of a ghost town these days judging by the last-post dates. Still, I will take a look around. All the best. |
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snooz
New Member
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Post by snooz on Mar 1, 2016 18:03:16 GMT -5
Hi everybody,
I'm 35 french guy. I'm interested in religion and spirituality and I just learn about The Truth. Spiritualy, I feel quite close to (christian) unitarianism and quaker faith.
I like the idea of the unpaid and homeless preacher, I've always find it strange to consider preaching as a job...
see you on the forum...
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jigpeter
Junior Member
Hinga dinga durgan
Posts: 188
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Post by jigpeter on Nov 2, 2016 20:42:23 GMT -5
Hello,
I was born and raised in "the truth" in Nebraska. I professed at age 11 and entered a major "spiritual struggle" not long after. But even while struggling, I felt convicted enough in my beliefs to get baptized at 13. Just months after that, I started seriously questioning everything I had been taught about God, and by age 15 I was well on my way to atheism. I considered myself an agnostic atheist at age 17, when my mother accidentally discovered my true feelings about "the truth" and I could finally stop attending meetings. I am an openly atheist college student now, much happier, and very grateful to my family for affording me all the privileges they would have afforded if I still shared their beliefs -- in spite of all the emotional pain and conflict I must have brought upon them.
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Post by howitis on Nov 2, 2016 20:51:33 GMT -5
Hi jigpeter and welcome, thankyou for your honesty. I may not believe as you do, yet I always encourage people, old or young, to find their own 'truth'....that way it is truly yours and not modelled just on the thoughts and expectations of others. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2016 23:41:21 GMT -5
Hello, I was born and raised in "the truth" in Nebraska. I professed at age 11 and entered a major "spiritual struggle" not long after. But even while struggling, I felt convicted enough in my beliefs to get baptized at 13. Just months after that, I started seriously questioning everything I had been taught about God, and by age 15 I was well on my way to atheism. I considered myself an agnostic atheist at age 17, when my mother accidentally discovered my true feelings about "the truth" and I could finally stop attending meetings. I am an openly atheist college student now, much happier, and very grateful to my family for affording me all the privileges they would have afforded if I still shared their beliefs -- in spite of all the emotional pain and conflict I must have brought upon them.
Ah, if only I could have been that insightful at your age!
It took me a least 60 years past that age to find myself.
That is what I consider becoming an atheist; -finding my real self, -not someone who had been a puppet of religion. |
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Post by ellie on Nov 3, 2016 2:09:21 GMT -5
Hello, I was born and raised in "the truth" in Nebraska. I professed at age 11 and entered a major "spiritual struggle" not long after. But even while struggling, I felt convicted enough in my beliefs to get baptized at 13. Just months after that, I started seriously questioning everything I had been taught about God, and by age 15 I was well on my way to atheism. I considered myself an agnostic atheist at age 17, when my mother accidentally discovered my true feelings about "the truth" and I could finally stop attending meetings. I am an openly atheist college student now, much happier, and very grateful to my family for affording me all the privileges they would have afforded if I still shared their beliefs -- in spite of all the emotional pain and conflict I must have brought upon them. Hi, and welcome! Neat story and it's wonderful to hear of accepting parents in the fellowship. Enjoy your time as a student! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 14:49:08 GMT -5
Hi jigpeter and welcome, thankyou for your honesty. I may not believe as you do, yet I always encourage people, old or young, to find their own 'truth'....that way it is truly yours and not modelled just on the thoughts and expectations of others. It is said that a man who dies still professing the same political and religious views as his father, is a man who hasn't travelled very far. Matt10 |
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Post by howitis on Nov 3, 2016 18:03:42 GMT -5
Yes @matt10, travel is a wonderful thing, though I also love to come home so other words that are said are found in Proverbs 22.6.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 6:04:41 GMT -5
We are all travellers, life itself is a journey from the cradle to the grave. When I was Lad, people who were terminally ill and in a Coma were very often said to be travelling home. That has caused me to remember this hymn:
Children of the heavenly King,
As ye journey, sweetly sing;
Sing your Savior’s worthy praise,
Glorious in His works and ways
We are traveling home to God,
In the way the fathers trod;
They are happy now, and we
Soon their happiness shall see.
Glory be to Jesus’ name,
Glory be to Christ the Lamb;
Through Thy blood were we redeemed,
When we justly were condemned.
Hymn played on the organ, Organist unknown.
O, ye banished seed, be glad!
Christ our advocate is made;
Us to save, our flesh assumes—
Brother to our souls becomes.
Shout, ye little flock, and blest,
You on Jesus’ throne shall rest:
There your seat is now prepared—
There your kingdom and reward.
Lift your eyes, ye sons of light,
Zion’s city is in sight:
There our endless home shall be,
There our Lord we soon shall see.
Fear not, brethren; joyful stand
On the borders of your land;
Jesus Christ, your Father’s Son,
Bids you undismayed go on.
Lord, obedient we would go,
Gladly leaving all below;
Only Thou our leader be;
And we will still follow Thee.
For Thee all things we forsake,
We in better would partake;
We to greater blessings soar,
Unto joys for evermore.
Thither, Lord, us quickly bring,
There we with Thy host will sing;
Safely havened once in bliss,
We will praise Thy righteousness.
Daily us prepare and fit,
On Thy holy throne to sit!
More and more adorn Thy seed,
Meet to triumph with our head.
Seal our love, our labors end,
Let us to Thy bliss ascend;
Let us to Thy kingdom come;
Lord, we long to be at home.
........
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 6:42:10 GMT -5
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jigpeter
Junior Member
Hinga dinga durgan
Posts: 188
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Post by jigpeter on Nov 4, 2016 20:55:42 GMT -5
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I would also like to share my own story as an outsider who professed around 15 years old and stayed within the fold for about 30 years before departing for good. My story was written three years ago to share on Cherie Kropp's public TLC site along with a number of other ex-members of the 2x2's. She's also the founder behind the historical Telling the Truth (TTT) site which is filled with all kinds of information on the 2x2's. In case you want to explore the experiences of others who have traveled down the same road, this would be a good start, IMHO?
