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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 7, 2008 8:40:35 GMT -5
Dave, I am assuming you are still referring to WINGS in your above post. If you could send me the medical evaluations of those who are certified to be mentally ill and listed on our website, I'll see if there is something we are not in compliance with in regards to the HIPPA law. Also, in regard to: To list peoples names and letters on websites and to incriminate them with out a fair trial in this county is a violation of law in its self. The law of this land is, innocent until proven guilty. That is a constitutional right. Please also send me a list of those names and letters on our website which incriminate anyone living in your county. (edit here, Dave meant country not county) Thanks, Scott
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dchaplin
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Innocent until proven guilty. Liberty and justice for all. Let forgiveness prevail!!!!
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Post by dchaplin on Oct 7, 2008 9:30:01 GMT -5
Dave, I am assuming you are still referring to WINGS in your above post. If you could send me the medical evaluations of those who are certified to be mentally ill and listed on our website, I'll see if there is something we are not in compliance with in regards to the HIPPA law. Also, in regard to: To list peoples names and letters on websites and to incriminate them with out a fair trial in this county is a violation of law in its self. The law of this land is, innocent until proven guilty. That is a constitutional right. Please also send me a list of those names and letters on our website which incriminate anyone living in your county. Thanks, Scott Scott, thanks for bringing that to my attention, an oversight on my part. I meant to say country not county. I will modify my original post. Dave.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 7, 2008 10:02:04 GMT -5
Fixed mine too Dave.....
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Post by bandtroll on Oct 7, 2008 11:45:39 GMT -5
If you could send me the medical evaluations of those who are certified to be mentally ill and listed on our website, I'll see if there is something we are not in compliance with in regards to the HIPPA law. (No, I'm not a lawyer, but) IMO the law has to do with information about peoples health. It does not mean that anyone with a health history gets a free pass every other aspect of their lives. As far as I know, WINGS is about sexual abuse. So unless WINGS is listing medical/health information about people on their website how does HIPPA apply to them
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dchaplin
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Innocent until proven guilty. Liberty and justice for all. Let forgiveness prevail!!!!
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Post by dchaplin on Oct 9, 2008 7:39:19 GMT -5
Dave, I am assuming you are still referring to WINGS in your above post. If you could send me the medical evaluations of those who are certified to be mentally ill and listed on our website, I'll see if there is something we are not in compliance with in regards to the HIPPA law. Also, in regard to: To list peoples names and letters on websites and to incriminate them with out a fair trial in this county is a violation of law in its self. The law of this land is, innocent until proven guilty. That is a constitutional right. Please also send me a list of those names and letters on our website which incriminate anyone living in your county. (edit here, Dave meant country not county) Thanks, Scott The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental disorders (DMS) is published by the American Psychiatric Association and provides diagnostic criteria for mental disorders. Pedophilia or Paedophilia as a medical diagnosis is defined as a psychological disorder according to DSM. The disorder is frequently a feature of persons who committ child sexual abuse. So than, in lay persons terms, pedophiles are classified as mentally ill. To address your request for a list of mentally ill, you already have it per your own addmissions and from others who maintain WINGS. For me to supply you with a list of the mentally ill is a violation of HIPAA law, under the assessment; definition of it. ( Which is why I initially complained about the form, that people can fill out on the WINGS web site). It is also a violation of HIPAA law to compile information of the alleged abused and to maintain a list of this information under the assessment and service, definition of it. To be offering advice to people without being properly licensed per State and Federal law is a violation. All for now, Dave.
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Post by kencoolidge on Oct 9, 2008 7:48:14 GMT -5
Bring in the lawyers. I am sure they will help clear this whole thing up ;D
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dchaplin
New Member
Innocent until proven guilty. Liberty and justice for all. Let forgiveness prevail!!!!
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Post by dchaplin on Oct 9, 2008 9:22:48 GMT -5
Bring in the lawyers. I am sure they will help clear this whole thing up ;D In my opinion, whatever it takes to clear the innocent, falsely accused and unconvicted until the libeling stops. For those who don't know what libel and or defamation means here is a definition from Mr. Noah Webster himself. libel 1. a. defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures. b. the crime of publishing it. 2. anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents. 3. to publish a libel against. defamation; to attack the good reputation, as by slander or libel. I imagine if the attorneys were brought in, it would be a class action, considering the number that have been accused. All for now, Dave.
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Post by bandtroll on Oct 9, 2008 9:36:44 GMT -5
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental disorders (DMS) is published by the American Psychiatric Association and provides diagnostic criteria for mental disorders. Pedophilia or Paedophilia as a medical diagnosis is defined as a psychological disorder according to DSM. The disorder is frequently a feature of persons who committ child sexual abuse. So than, in lay persons terms, pedophiles are classified as mentally ill. As far as I have heard, WINGS lists crimes and alleged crimes. Being "ill" does not make one immune from being held accountable for their crimes. (IF they are listing 'mental conditions' they may want to remove that information.) To address your request for a list of mentally ill, you already have it per your own addmissions and from others who maintain WINGS. For me to supply you with a list of the mentally ill is a violation of HIPAA law, under the assessment; definition of it. ( Which is why I initially complained about the form, that people can fill out on the WINGS web site). It is also a violation of HIPAA law to compile information of the alleged abused and to maintain a list of this information under the assessment and service, definition of it. To be offering advice to people without being properly licensed per State and Federal law is a violation. All for now, Dave. IF your list states that these people are mentally ill and instead of stating that these people are alleged criminals, I would agree. IF posting criminal information is such a violation, how do the states get away with listing online where sexual offenders live complete with pictures, addresses and history?
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Post by dgaab on Oct 9, 2008 12:51:19 GMT -5
Each state's SOL, with pictures, are of offenders that have been convicted and the public disclosure is part of the sentencing/conviction penalty, which includes reporting to a probation officer, until their posting expires (depending on the sex-related conviction).
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Post by jhjmr on Oct 9, 2008 21:10:14 GMT -5
Dave keep digging until you are able to put an end to this fiasco. I would do the same thing. And, I'm sure there are many that will be right in there digging with you. The best answer of course, will be why all of these people were ever named. There is more to this than just mental illness. If a person has mental illness, they are very easy manipulated and that surely seems to be the problem here. So, we are all behind you and will do anything that is possible to help anyone out that needs help through out this mess. We know there are answers. We just have to be able to ask the right question to the right person. I think that will happen!
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 9, 2008 21:55:45 GMT -5
A child molester is anyone who sexually touches a child in a sexual manner. Not all child molesters are pedophiles and not all pedophiles are child molesters. However, according to the Mayo Clinic*, approximately 95% of child sexual abuse incidents are committed by the 88% of child molestation offenders who meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia. A pedophile is someone who has a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children of either sex. Not every adult who is attracted to children acts on their attraction. There are pedophilic offenders and there are situational offenders. Some situational causes may include curiosity, stress, marital problems, unavailability of an adult partner, mental or medical conditions and/or being unsociable. What is a pedophile? www.tellingthetruth.info/csa/k-pedophile.htmlAccording to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Ed. Rev., the following criteria must be met to establish a diagnosis of pedophilia: • Over a period of at least 6 months, the affected person experiences recurrent, intense and sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or actual behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child. • The fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of daily functioning. • The affected person must be at least age 16 and be at least 5 years older than the child or children who are the objects or targets of attention or sexual activity.
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dchaplin
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Innocent until proven guilty. Liberty and justice for all. Let forgiveness prevail!!!!
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Post by dchaplin on Oct 10, 2008 8:03:05 GMT -5
A child molester is anyone who sexually touches a child in a sexual manner. Not all child molesters are pedophiles and not all pedophiles are child molesters. However, according to the Mayo Clinic*, approximately 95% of child sexual abuse incidents are committed by the 88% of child molestation offenders who meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia. A pedophile is someone who has a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children of either sex. Not every adult who is attracted to children acts on their attraction. There are pedophilic offenders and there are situational offenders. Some situational causes may include curiosity, stress, marital problems, unavailability of an adult partner, mental or medical conditions and/or being unsociable. What is a pedophile? www.tellingthetruth.info/csa/k-pedophile.htmlAccording to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Ed. Rev., the following criteria must be met to establish a diagnosis of pedophilia: • Over a period of at least 6 months, the affected person experiences recurrent, intense and sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or actual behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child. • The fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of daily functioning. • The affected person must be at least age 16 and be at least 5 years older than the child or children who are the objects or targets of attention or sexual activity. Do you use this criteria in your assessment of indivduals before you list their names on the WINGS website?
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dchaplin
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Innocent until proven guilty. Liberty and justice for all. Let forgiveness prevail!!!!
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Post by dchaplin on Oct 10, 2008 8:16:24 GMT -5
Dave keep digging until you are able to put an end to this fiasco. I would do the same thing. And, I'm sure there are many that will be right in there digging with you. The best answer of course, will be why all of these people were ever named. There is more to this than just mental illness. If a person has mental illness, they are very easy manipulated and that surely seems to be the problem here. So, we are all behind you and will do anything that is possible to help anyone out that needs help through out this mess. We know there are answers. We just have to be able to ask the right question to the right person. I think that will happen! Thanks for your support and we will continue to do so. We are committed to exonerating all innocent, falsely accused and libeled names. This lynch mob mentality of these people that are sitting in the judgement seat and condemning ones without due process of law, who have not been proven guilty, must go. It may very well be some of the accused are guilty, but to destroy innocent lives in the process, based on envy, rumors and gossip is unacceptable. To justify the means, to bring about the end results by breaking the law is in itself hypocrisy. There are proper Government Authorities to handle these situations. Thats why there are laws in place to protect the innocent on both sides. All for now, Dave.
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 10, 2008 9:05:11 GMT -5
How many times do we have to tell you? Can't you read?
There is NO list ON the WINGS website!
WINGS does no counseling... WINGS informs, educates and supports WINGS doesnt assess individuals... WINGS maintains a list of reports of offenders turned in by others. WINGS list is totally private - and can only be viewed by the 7 WINGS group members and REPEAT - it is not STORED ON THE WINGS WEBSITE. WINGS does NOT give out this list to anyone. WINGS list contains the following categories: convicted? went to trial? alleged?
IF the F&W would maintain their own list of the sex offenders who are in their fellowship and make that information available to parents and others who live in the area of the offender, for safety/prevention purposes, WINGS probably wouldnt need to have a list.
IF the F&W used some consistent Conditions for Fellowship requirements that all sex offenders in their group had to observe--then WINGS probably wouldnt need a list. Similar to requirements various states put on them.
The reason for the WINGS list of reports is to provide SAFETY for the children.
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dchaplin
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Innocent until proven guilty. Liberty and justice for all. Let forgiveness prevail!!!!
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Post by dchaplin on Oct 10, 2008 9:50:33 GMT -5
How many times do we have to tell you? Can't you read? There is NO list ON the WINGS website! WINGS does no counseling... WINGS informs, educates and supports WINGS doesnt assess individuals... WINGS maintains a list of reports of offenders turned in by others. WINGS list is totally private - and can only be viewed by the 7 WINGS group members and REPEAT - it is not STORED ON THE WINGS WEBSITE. WINGS does NOT give out this list to anyone. WINGS list contains the following categories: convicted? went to trial? alleged? IF the F&W would maintain their own list of the sex offenders who are in their fellowship and make that information available to parents and others who live in the area of the offender, for safety/prevention purposes, WINGS probably wouldnt need to have a list. IF the F&W used some consistent Conditions for Fellowship requirements that all sex offenders in their group had to observe--then WINGS probably wouldnt need a list. Similar to requirements various states put on them. The reason for the WINGS list of reports is to provide SAFETY for the children. I notice you personally refer to a certain individual as a pedophile, this is an assessment and his name is listed on the WINGS website. In your own words, you have assessed him as being a pedophile per your previous post regarding DSM criteria.
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dchaplin
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Innocent until proven guilty. Liberty and justice for all. Let forgiveness prevail!!!!
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Post by dchaplin on Oct 10, 2008 9:57:40 GMT -5
I think I smell smoke!!!!!
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 10, 2008 10:12:33 GMT -5
I think I smell smoke!!!!! Likewise many others "smell smoke" when somebody (like you) "doth protest too much." Be more specfic. Exactly where is this assessment made by me personally on WINGS?
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peace and joy
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For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness, and peace,and joy in the Holy Ghost
Posts: 109
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Post by peace and joy on Oct 10, 2008 10:28:41 GMT -5
To Cherie: The problem is most people do not believe your statement that WINGS does not give out the list of the alleged victims to anyone. Most of the people involved in the Michigan case believe that the WINGS website has been instrumental in the accusations brought about in this case. Most of us know the 2 sister workers involved were counseled by your website on how to handle the case. Most of us also know your hatred for the Truth and that you would do anything you can to cause any problems or as in your terminology anyone"to lose out".
Your sensitivity in dealing with people really shows through by your posts: To D Chaplin "How many times do we have to tell you? Can't you read? and Likewise many others "smell smoke" when somebody (like you) "doth protest too much."
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peace and joy
Junior Member
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness, and peace,and joy in the Holy Ghost
Posts: 109
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Post by peace and joy on Oct 10, 2008 10:40:17 GMT -5
To Cherie: What is your insinuation with this statement?
Cherie said to D Chaplin: Likewise many others "smell smoke" when somebody (like you) "doth protest too much."
Are you saying because he is protesting being falsely accused that he is trying to cover something up? I think in that one statement you have just made, you are certainly telling us a lot.
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Post by Jim Niles on Oct 10, 2008 10:44:17 GMT -5
To Cherie: The problem is most people do not believe your statement that WINGS does not give out the list of the alleged victims to anyone. Most of the people involved in the Michigan case believe that the WINGS website has been instrumental in the accusations brought about in this case. Most of us know the 2 sister workers involved were counseled by your website on how to handle the case. Most of us also know your hatred for the Truth and that you would do anything you can to cause any problems or as in your terminology anyone"to lose out". Sounds like you are spilling out a bunch of accusations here that may need to be backed up. A older fella was once heard saying to a neighbor during a heated but touchy conversation.... "Clean your own back doorstep before you start on someone Else's". You are assuming the sister workers took direction from the website. HATE is a tough word to use. I think Cherie is simply allowing some facts to be exposed and people can use their own desecration as to what they believe. She also seems to hit some nerves here and that appears to be because some feel trapped that Truth has been exposed as not being God's TRUE way like the sect claims to be. Jim Your sensitivity in dealing with people really shows through by your posts: To D Chaplin "How many times do we have to tell you? Can't you read? and Likewise many others "smell smoke" when somebody (like you) "doth protest too much."
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 10, 2008 10:50:13 GMT -5
RE: The problem is most people do not believe your statement that WINGS does not give out the list of the alleged victims to anyone. ***Thank you for cluing me in as to why you people are beating the dead horse over and over again. However, thats your problem. Not mine. Not WINGS. It's your right. I respect that. But it doesnt make it true.
RE: Most of the people involved in the Michigan case believe that the WINGS website has been instrumental in the accusations brought about in this case. Most of us know the 2 sister workers involved were counseled by your website on how to handle the case. ***You're entitled to believe what you want. Doesnt make it true. Are you saying WINGS put the 2 sisters workers up to filing the lawsuit using the twins? HA! Boy you must think WINGS has a lot of power! I think its probably safe to say that none of the WINGS group had ever heard of either of the names of the 2 sisters workers involved--until the case was already filed.
RE: Most of us also know your hatred for the Truth and that you would do anything you can to cause any problems or as in your terminology anyone"to lose out".
For the record: I do not hate F&W Fellowship some call "the truth." I do not care if people stay in or get out. I do not attempt to get people out. My TTT website provides information--education in the history of the group. What they do with the information is up to them.
You have no proof or examples of your accusations. You've fallen into the trap of stereotyping me and others... You wont find examples of what you accuse me of above...
I respect your right to believe what you want to. I have presented the facts - you can do whatever you want to about them. believe them, suspect them, disbelieve them, put them in your pending file, whatever.
Me - I prefer truth over belief any day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2008 10:51:59 GMT -5
CherieKropp wrote:
This is exactly right. If our church were doing its job properly in protecting children, there would be no WINGS. We should be ashamed that WINGS is doing what we should be doing for ourselves. Instead, hardline 2x2's try to impugn the integrity of WINGS under the auspices of trying to protect those who are falsely accused.
What should happen is some well grounded elders and workers should approach WINGS and look to get involved. This is by far the best option because frankly, I don't think we are capable of taking positive steps like WINGS to protect our children on our own.
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 10, 2008 10:52:35 GMT -5
To Cherie: What is your insinuation with this statement? Cherie said to D Chaplin: Likewise many others "smell smoke" when somebody (like you) "doth protest too much." Are you saying because he is protesting being falsely accused that he is trying to cover something up? I think in that one statement you have just made, you are certainly telling us a lot. You can look at it anyway you want to - you will anyway. It wouldnt matter what explanation I gave...
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Post by ilylo on Oct 10, 2008 12:49:46 GMT -5
Cherie,
I think you explained more than sufficiently. If the hateful chap refuses to read what you actually wrote, that's his problem.
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Post by JO on Oct 10, 2008 13:46:12 GMT -5
CherieKropp wrote: This is exactly right. If our church were doing its job properly in protecting children, there would be no WINGS. We should be ashamed that WINGS is doing what we should be doing for ourselves. Instead, hardline 2x2's try to impugn the integrity of WINGS under the auspices of trying to protect those who are falsely accused. What should happen is some well grounded elders and workers should approach WINGS and look to get involved. This is by far the best option because frankly, I don't think we are capable of taking positive steps like WINGS to protect our children on our own. I agree clearday. Our church has failed to protect our children and seems incapable of reform from the inside. Our leaders won't be honest about church history so how can we expect them to be honest about child abuse? Thank you Cherie and others who have made the effort to document the facts that our leaders keep trying to bury. Yes, its a disgrace that it had to come from outside but it seems God has been unable to move our leaders to act.
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Post by lin on Oct 10, 2008 15:13:23 GMT -5
Clearday: First of all since when is it the job of the church to protect children. As a parent and grandparent myself myself I feel it is my responsibility to protect my children. True it is not right that Wings ever came into existence as structured. While it was being organized where were the people who could have recognized the need and do something about it. I have talked to Scott about this and looked into the possibility of a couple of options. 1. We do come up with an educational site about the problem of Abuse. That option is being worked on right now 2. The option that we take over Wings and run it as our own site. The answer to this was no. Even if we do come up with our site Wings will still exist. So therefore it appears to me that Wings has more advantages to some people than just the issue of child abuse.
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Post by lin on Oct 10, 2008 15:16:11 GMT -5
Ilylo Are you in charge of the amen corner?
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Post by lin on Oct 10, 2008 15:21:25 GMT -5
WINGS does no counseling... Not according to Jeans letter She thanks you for writing her letter for her. She says she told you and you wrote.
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