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Post by xna on Dec 15, 2023 9:30:03 GMT -5
Is it just me or .... When I read about flooding the underground chambers with sea water to drown the people inside, why do I think of the Nazi gas chambers? When I read that the IDF won't stop bombing until they kill all of Hamas, why do I think about the term "Final Solution" used by Nazi Germany's leaders?
I'd agree with Wally, Israel killing armed terrorist for butchering 1200 innocent Jewish citizens is not similar to what the Nazi's did. The euphemism 'Final Solution' was a goal to exterminate every Jew, not unlike the Hamas euphemism 'River to the Sea'. The similarity is that the Nazi's and Hamas want all Jews dead.
If I had used the word " reminds" instead of " think" I would have more clearly expressed my idea. What the Nazi's did was on a much greater scale. I'm just surprised that the Jews who while in confinement were killed by gas, would now drown people in a confined tunnel by water. Also, innocent Jews were killed in WWII, and now Jews are killing innocent Palestinians. These comparisons are not lost by much of the world. Anti-war protest are now not allowed in Israel, but some Jews outside of Israel are calling for a ceasefire. US Jewish group protests in eight cities for Gaza ceasefire
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Post by snow on Dec 15, 2023 14:59:31 GMT -5
I'd agree with Wally, Israel killing armed terrorist for butchering 1200 innocent Jewish citizens is not similar to what the Nazi's did. The euphemism 'Final Solution' was a goal to exterminate every Jew, not unlike the Hamas euphemism 'River to the Sea'. The similarity is that the Nazi's and Hamas want all Jews dead.
If I had used the word " reminds" instead of " think" I would have more clearly expressed my idea. What the Nazi's did was on a much greater scale. I'm just surprised that the Jews who while in confinement were killed by gas, would now drown people in a confined tunnel by water. Also, innocent Jews were killed in WWII, and now Jews are killing innocent Palestinians. These comparisons are not lost by much of the world. Anti-war protest are now not allowed in Israel, but some Jews outside of Israel are calling for a ceasefire. US Jewish group protests in eight cities for Gaza ceasefireI am not surprised that Jews are protesting this. It's gotten far beyond trying to take out Hamas while trying to protect civilians. It's become very clear that the government of Israel has decided that they must kill until they decide their goal is met. I no longer think that they care about Palestinian civilians and their children. The world looks on and wonders just how far they will go.
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Post by xna on Dec 15, 2023 15:06:44 GMT -5
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Post by Dan on Dec 16, 2023 21:59:01 GMT -5
I am not surprised that Jews are protesting this. It's gotten far beyond trying to take out Hamas while trying to protect civilians. It's become very clear that the government of Israel has decided that they must kill until they decide their goal is met. I no longer think that they care about Palestinian civilians and their children. The world looks on and wonders just how far they will go.
The Jews protesting are not the civilians who were living in southern Israel on Oct 7th.. Its easy to be compassionate when your not living in harms way, never been a victim, and aren't being threatened night and day by constant rocket attacks. I personally hope that Netanyahu doesn't lose his conviction to destroy Hamas at all cost. If he relents now and bows to world pressure, it will cost many more Israeli lives in the future. The Jews are notorious cowards that have been content to be the worlds whipping boys for 2 millennia, its fight or die now, I hope they choose the former. Compassion and empathy must take a back seat during times of war, otherwise the battle is just prolonged and the enemy lives to fight another day.
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Post by xna on Dec 17, 2023 10:02:50 GMT -5
I personally hope that Netanyahu doesn't lose his conviction to destroy Hamas at all cost. If he relents now and bows to world pressure, it will cost many more Israeli lives in the future.
Many Jews in Israel do not support Netanyahu approach to this war. Many see Netanyahu's war creating more, not less safety for Israel. The Jews are notorious cowards that have been content to be the worlds whipping boys for 2 millennia, its fight or die now, I hope they choose the former. Compassion and empathy must take a back seat during times of war, otherwise the battle is just prolonged and the enemy lives to fight another day.
I find the Jews in Israel are not at all like the worlds whipping boys, but just the opposite. The meek Jews were more likely to have been killed in WWII. The Jews who live near the boarders or across the boarders are incentivized by the government to settle there. They tend to be the most zionistic and militant Jews. They know they are the first line of defense, and are the ones most willing to die for their zionism.
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Post by snow on Dec 17, 2023 14:41:07 GMT -5
I am not surprised that Jews are protesting this. It's gotten far beyond trying to take out Hamas while trying to protect civilians. It's become very clear that the government of Israel has decided that they must kill until they decide their goal is met. I no longer think that they care about Palestinian civilians and their children. The world looks on and wonders just how far they will go. The Jews protesting are not the civilians who were living in southern Israel on Oct 7th.. Its easy to be compassionate when your not living in harms way, never been a victim, and aren't being threatened night and day by constant rocket attacks. I personally hope that Netanyahu doesn't lose his conviction to destroy Hamas at all cost. If he relents now and bows to world pressure, it will cost many more Israeli lives in the future. The Jews are notorious cowards that have been content to be the worlds whipping boys for 2 millennia, its fight or die now, I hope they choose the former. Compassion and empathy must take a back seat during times of war, otherwise the battle is just prolonged and the enemy lives to fight another day.
Even if Hamas does kill more Jews in the future if they aren't taken down, I doubt the death toll will ever be what we are seeing with the Palestinians right now and in the past when Israel went on the offensive. So in a war it's the goal to completely kill every last person that is considered the enemy so that none live to fight again? That's called genocide. The OT does describe just such a war against the Amalekites so I guess it's Israel's MO? If we lose compassion and empathy for all the women and children and innocent men in Palestine then we lose our humanity. I believe that all this will achieve is making more enemies out of the survivors that have lost their families and everything they own in some cases. Israel will never be enemy free doing it this way. This can hardly even be called a war. One side completely out guns the other side. There is no hope that the Palestinians can win or even do anything to call a truce if the goal is to kill all of Hamas before they stop.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 17, 2023 19:29:18 GMT -5
I am not surprised that Jews are protesting this. It's gotten far beyond trying to take out Hamas while trying to protect civilians. It's become very clear that the government of Israel has decided that they must kill until they decide their goal is met. I no longer think that they care about Palestinian civilians and their children. The world looks on and wonders just how far they will go. The Jews protesting are not the civilians who were living in southern Israel on Oct 7th.. Its easy to be compassionate when your not living in harms way,
The moral high ground is NOT the way of wanton revenge. And if "at all cost" meant killing you to find a Communist in your city? Makes sense to me!!!!
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Post by xna on Dec 17, 2023 19:31:27 GMT -5
Even if Hamas does kill more Jews in the future if they aren't taken down, I doubt the death toll will ever be what we are seeing with the Palestinians right now and in the past when Israel went on the offensive.
So in a war it's the goal to completely kill every last person that is considered the enemy so that none live to fight again? That's called genocide. The OT does describe just such a war against the Amalekites so I guess it's Israel's MO? If we lose compassion and empathy for all the women and children and innocent men in Palestine then we lose our humanity. I believe that all this will achieve is making more enemies out of the survivors that have lost their families and everything they own in some cases. Israel will never be enemy free doing it this way. This can hardly even be called a war. One side completely out guns the other side. There is no hope that the Palestinians can win or even do anything to call a truce if the goal is to kill all of Hamas before they stop. The thought has crossed my mind that Hamas could dope Israels water supply with Polonium-210 or another deadly agent. Polonium-210 is extremely dangerous, One gram of polonium-210 is enough to kill 50 million people!
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Post by Dan on Dec 17, 2023 21:02:18 GMT -5
Many Jews in Israel do not support Netanyahu approach to this war. Many see Netanyahu's war creating more, not less safety for Israel. I find the Jews in Israel are not at all like the worlds whipping boys, but just the opposite. The meek Jews were more likely to have been killed in WWII. The Jews who live near the boarders or across the boarders are incentivized by the government to settle there. They tend to be the most zionistic and militant Jews. They know they are the first line of defense, and are the ones most willing to die for their zionism.
Modern Jews have found a backbone, but generations have been persecuted worldwide. It was prophesized and so it was. Israel will never win, nor will they be overtaken again. Ultimately, Messiah will finish what they've been unable to do.
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Post by Dan on Dec 17, 2023 21:07:59 GMT -5
The moral high ground is NOT the way of wanton revenge. And if "at all cost" meant killing you to find a Communist in your city? Makes sense to me!!!!
There's no moral high ground in war, its kill or be killed, lose that mindset and your doomed for the latter.
If communist had murdered 1300 in my city and I was told to leave while the government exterminated the killers, I'd fully support the effort.
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Post by Dan on Dec 17, 2023 21:19:35 GMT -5
Even if Hamas does kill more Jews in the future if they aren't taken down, I doubt the death toll will ever be what we are seeing with the Palestinians right now and in the past when Israel went on the offensive. So in a war it's the goal to completely kill every last person that is considered the enemy so that none live to fight again? That's called genocide. The OT does describe just such a war against the Amalekites so I guess it's Israel's MO? If we lose compassion and empathy for all the women and children and innocent men in Palestine then we lose our humanity. I believe that all this will achieve is making more enemies out of the survivors that have lost their families and everything they own in some cases. Israel will never be enemy free doing it this way. This can hardly even be called a war. One side completely out guns the other side. There is no hope that the Palestinians can win or even do anything to call a truce if the goal is to kill all of Hamas before they stop.
True, God previously ordered genocide and Israel failed to comply, we're now seeing the result of not finishing the job. It won't make more enemies out of the survivors if there are no survivors. But your right, Israel will never be enemy free. Regardless of what they do in Gaza, their enemies surround them and will never relent. The Palestinians are just pawns parked in a war zone and are being used as shields. No Arab nation will resettle them because they need them as a provocation for war.
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Post by xna on Dec 17, 2023 21:36:36 GMT -5
Modern Jews have found a backbone, but generations have been persecuted worldwide. It was prophesized and so it was. Israel will never win, nor will they be overtaken again. Ultimately, Messiah will finish what they've been unable to do.
I wasn't around in WWII, but I have read some on the topic. I know some Jews with tattoos on their arms from being in a concentration camp, I've been to a few Holocaust Museums, and to several concentration camps in Europe. That was a dark period in history. The world should never forget those war crimes, and mankind should learn from such atrocities. As far as bible prophecy; at best I see them as mainly myth, and at worst it reinforces historic tribalism. By believing in OT bible prophecies those death and destruction stories are carried into the future. We should focus on the practical here and now, and put those old war stories back on the shelf.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 17, 2023 23:39:02 GMT -5
The moral high ground is NOT the way of wanton revenge. And if "at all cost" meant killing you to find a Communist in your city? Makes sense to me!!!! There's no moral high ground in war, its kill or be killed, lose that mindset and your doomed for the latter. The Israelis have a long reputation of finding and killing Nazis over their history, and not killing innocent lives for the convenience. Netanyahu is catering to his racist supporters. You didn't answer the question. You're ignoring the fact that a million Gazans went as far away as they could get.
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Post by snow on Dec 18, 2023 17:42:08 GMT -5
Even if Hamas does kill more Jews in the future if they aren't taken down, I doubt the death toll will ever be what we are seeing with the Palestinians right now and in the past when Israel went on the offensive.
So in a war it's the goal to completely kill every last person that is considered the enemy so that none live to fight again? That's called genocide. The OT does describe just such a war against the Amalekites so I guess it's Israel's MO? If we lose compassion and empathy for all the women and children and innocent men in Palestine then we lose our humanity. I believe that all this will achieve is making more enemies out of the survivors that have lost their families and everything they own in some cases. Israel will never be enemy free doing it this way. This can hardly even be called a war. One side completely out guns the other side. There is no hope that the Palestinians can win or even do anything to call a truce if the goal is to kill all of Hamas before they stop. The thought has crossed my mind that Hamas could dope Israels water supply with Polonium-210 or another deadly agent. Polonium-210 is extremely dangerous, One gram of polonium-210 is enough to kill 50 million people!Never thought of that but yes, that could certainly be a possibility. What a horrific mess.
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Post by snow on Dec 18, 2023 17:48:47 GMT -5
Even if Hamas does kill more Jews in the future if they aren't taken down, I doubt the death toll will ever be what we are seeing with the Palestinians right now and in the past when Israel went on the offensive. So in a war it's the goal to completely kill every last person that is considered the enemy so that none live to fight again? That's called genocide. The OT does describe just such a war against the Amalekites so I guess it's Israel's MO? If we lose compassion and empathy for all the women and children and innocent men in Palestine then we lose our humanity. I believe that all this will achieve is making more enemies out of the survivors that have lost their families and everything they own in some cases. Israel will never be enemy free doing it this way. This can hardly even be called a war. One side completely out guns the other side. There is no hope that the Palestinians can win or even do anything to call a truce if the goal is to kill all of Hamas before they stop. True, God previously ordered genocide and Israel failed to comply, we're now seeing the result of not finishing the job. It won't make more enemies out of the survivors if there are no survivors. But your right, Israel will never be enemy free. Regardless of what they do in Gaza, their enemies surround them and will never relent. The Palestinians are just pawns parked in a war zone and are being used as shields. No Arab nation will resettle them because they need them as a provocation for war.
Unfortunately that's what the Palestinian people are. I agree.
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