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Post by FF on Nov 5, 2007 20:32:45 GMT -5
Christians would/should forgive and forget except when there are children involved and when the sickness indicates it will happen again.
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Post by aussiegal on Nov 5, 2007 21:07:47 GMT -5
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By seeking justice... you are not "dredging up the past". These children (more than just my child) live through this EVERY SINGLE DAY. It's not a simple crime like a robbery. These children's innocence is robbed to begin with. Then quite often these children are too young to even be fully developed - to the point that when a serious abuse issue happens it can have physical damage that will affect the child for the rest of their lives too. Not just the emotional damage. The emotional damage can range from no self worth through to suicide. You're absolutely right that "it probably was not seen by the abuser as harmful." But then you say "you don't think the abuser suffers?". Well this kind of answers itself don't you think? If they see nothing wrong with it... OF COURSE THEY'RE NOT SUFFERING!
You're quote "It seems to be more of an issue to you than to the abused. Bear in mind, the abused has a brain and has dealt with the matter or will deal with it as soon as the parent backs off and quits bringing up the matter." For your information - I never bring it up with my daughter. Ever. You couldnt be further from the truth. I pray that the children can get past it... I never ever would wish this on anyone.
It is our job and responsibility as adults to protect the children. It is the authority's job and responsibility to investigate all claims, and if necessary bring the accused to justice.
By doing nothing you're sending the message to the perpetrator that they've done nothing wrong... and also sending the message to the victim that nothing wrong has been done.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion... I sincerely hope that if you have children, they never be abused. And for any children that are being abused... I certainly hope theres people that are standing up for them, caring for them, loving them and protecting them.
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matia
Senior Member
Posts: 242
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Post by matia on Nov 5, 2007 21:35:41 GMT -5
Hi ecarg The response I was looking for was that if a preacherman was a sex offender , and he was preaching the (word ) if anyone proffessed through him would that person be saved Thats all I will start a new thread To eyedeeten tee Are U for or against sex abusers ?? are U IN IT I mean the (truth), or out of it , ( the To peal off the scab, What a remark , Its easy seen that thing has not happened to you Thats all
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Post by friend1 on Nov 5, 2007 21:47:40 GMT -5
The worker (preacherman) doesn't save anyone. All they do is to lead people to Jesus Christ, the savior.
So the answer is Yes. Someone who professed through a preacher that was subsequently determined to be a sex offender would be saved by Jesus Christ, the savior, just the same as another professed through a worker that was squeaky clean.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Nov 5, 2007 22:17:54 GMT -5
To eyedeetentee Are U for or against sex abusers?? are U IN IT I mean the (truth), or out of it , ( the To peal off the scab, What a remark , Its easy seen that thing has not happened to you Thats all For or against - neither. I look at this from an objective standpoint - not subjective. Not an innie. I am not taking the bait - what has happened to me or where I've been, I have no intention of telling you. But from an objective point of view, it doesn't matter anyway.
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matia
Senior Member
Posts: 242
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Post by matia on Nov 6, 2007 2:12:14 GMT -5
To Friend 1 guest
You have a warped sense of humor/ what about the example a preacher man should be . i cant understand . You make being a Christian so simple
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 6, 2007 11:50:28 GMT -5
To Why not, Your post raised some questions for me which I will try to answer. You seem to feel that by my having names I should be acting on those names by going to the authorities. Perhaps you could give me your honest opinion as to how I should go about it. One doesn't know. That is why you report him to the authorities. Have you done that yet or are you just sitting on the knowledge allowing children to be victimized?The only reason I have knowledge of this is because I was contacted by some professing folks and exes who are concerned about this situation. My understanding is that the parents either do not want to turn this worker in to the authorities, or that they have been convinced that they shouldn't. I haven't gotten all the information I need to make a call to the authorities. (date of incident, where it occurred...) What do you think I should do with what I have so far? Do you think that the authorities should show up at this family's door based on what I 'know'? All I have is hearsay. Those who have all the information should be calling the authorities. My role in this is to try to contact the parents and let them know of information I have concerning what I 'know' of this workers past. What line? If you know they are abusing children, or know that they did in the past, report them. Again, who do I report this to? Do I call up my local police chief and tell him what I have? Do I call the state where the abuse happened (sometimes decades ago)? Have you reported him? Or are you protecting him?No I am not protecting him. No I haven't reported him. Again, my actions here have been to be in contact with people who are in the area where this occurred and let them know what I have heard and what was done in a similar situation here in Minnesota. "Tailgunner Joe" McCarthy had his lists as well. Depending on the day they had 57 or 205 or 85 people on them. When they were finally shown it turns out all he had was a state department list with the names redacted. My numbers also change on some days. Depends on what I get in my emails. You have the data - report them. Again, to who should I report? Why is it a thing of the past? Have you reported a single person that you know has abused a child?No, if you are referring to have I called the authorities. Yes as far as warning others who are in the area where the abuse took place. You have 20 names. I have 75 names. With photos and signed letters. But I will not act on them. Looks like you are two up on me there. I do not have signed letters and I do not have photos. I have emails from those who have either suffered abuse or know of abuse happening. Just curious as to why you feel I should act on the information I have,and you not. I wonder what function you think you play here. You drop hints but never act on the data you claim to have. Aside from the voyeuristic gratification you get from having people air their dirty laundry to you, what have you done regarding the people who are out there abusing children? Good question. I sometimes wonder about my function in all this. So far my function has been to be a point of contact for abuse survivors to get information. You're right about me dropping hints. I do it deliberately in the hope that the message will be picked up by the workers that read here that what they have been doing with abusers is no longer hidden from view. Those who are professing and read here are put on alert that there is an abuser in their area. I get contacts this way. Although we have to concern ourselves with libel issues on the TMB, I have no problem sharing with a concerned parent 'off board' by email names, dates and other information information I have. Incidentally, there is quite a bit of action. It just isn't aired here on the TMB. I do a lot more in regards to PM's and emails then I do here posting. I would like to pay a little extra attention to this line you wrote: Aside from the voyeuristic gratification you get from having people air their dirty laundry to you, I know what the 'biker side' of me would like to say to you, but I'll let my other side respond to this. I have been deeply saddened by all that has been shared with me off board by those who have been abused. I get no gratification from hearing stories from abuse survivors. What I do is to refer those who contact me who could use help to others who are also abuse survivors. I provide information when possible about names I have been given, and try to find out from my contacts if anyone else has information which is relevant to what I have been told. This has resulted in several abuse survivors pooling information which has been used to create a web site which is dedicated to those who have suffered abuse while members of the 'truth'. The web site is close to being opened, and will be a place that abuse survivors will be able to go to and chat and post their stories. It will NOT be an open site for all to visit, but will be password protected and moderated by those who are themselves abuse survivors. (at least that is how I think it will be run) I personally have not been too involved in this endeavor as I am not an abuse survivor. Those who have had input in this are both professing and exes. Scott
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Post by Why Not on Nov 7, 2007 2:00:22 GMT -5
To Why not, Your post raised some questions for me which I will try to answer. You seem to feel that by my having names I should be acting on those names by going to the authorities. Perhaps you could give me your honest opinion as to how I should go about it. {deleted text} Again, who do I report this to? Do I call up my local police chief and tell him what I have? Do I call the state where the abuse happened (sometimes decades ago)? No I am not protecting him. No I haven't reported him. Again, my actions here have been to be in contact with people who are in the area where this occurred and let them know what I have heard and what was done in a similar situation here in Minnesota. Again, to who should I report?[/quote] You seem like a reasonably intelligent person. You have access to the Internet. Below are the results of a quick search. Every state has an agency that allow you to report child abuse. Note below that if any of the cases are in Texas you are breaking the law if you do not report it. So, that answers the question of who you need to report the cases to. But you need the actual facts, not gossip. If you have the facts file the report. A quick search of "reporting child abuse Texas" for example returned this as number 1 on Google: Report Abuse or Neglect To report suspicions of abuse/neglect of children or abuse/neglect/exploitation of persons 65 years or older and adults with disabilities, please contact our Abuse Hotline toll free 1-800-252-5400, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. This number is accessible from across the United States. For situations that do not require a response within 24 hours you may report through our secure web site: www.txabusehotline.orgAbuse, neglect and exploitation are against the law in Texas, and so is failure to report it. If you suspect a child or a person 65 years or older and an adult with disabilities has been abused or mistreated, you are required to report it to the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services or to a law enforcement agency. You are required to make a report immediately.And for MN How do I report suspected child abuse? The Minneapolis Police Department and Hennepin County Child Protection are the two agencies charged with receiving reports of child abuse occurring in Minneapolis. These agencies are also responsible for the joint investigation of child abuse allegations. You may report suspicions of child abuse to the Minneapolis Police Department 24 hours a day by calling 911. The operator will ask you to describe the circumstances and then dispatch a squad to take a report. You may also call Hennepin County Child Protection at 612-348-3552. An intake worker is available 24 hours a day to take reports. In Washington: Children's Administration offers several ways to report abuse: Daytime - Find your local office number to report abuse or neglect in your area. Nights & Weekends - call 1-800-562-5624 to report abuse during the evening or on weekends. Hotline - call 1-866-ENDHARM (1-866-363-4276), Washington State's toll-free, 24 hour, 7 day-a-week hotline that will connect you directly to the appropriate local office to report suspected child abuse or neglect. TTY Callers - call 1-800-624-6186 to place a direct TTY call.
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 7, 2007 8:08:55 GMT -5
Hey Why Not, Thanks for the info you posted! I think for a lot of people it is a real eye opener to find out that in some states they are breaking the law by not reporting child and elder abuse. Maybe this will help people who aren't sure what to do when they find out about abuse in the area where they live. I appreciate the response. I have checked into some of these laws. I believe that there will be links on the new abuse web site for people to look up these regulations for the various states also. Scott
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Post by Why Not on Nov 7, 2007 10:27:58 GMT -5
Hey Why Not, Thanks for the info you posted! I think for a lot of people it is a real eye opener to find out that in some states they are breaking the law by not reporting child and elder abuse. Maybe this will help people who aren't sure what to do when they find out about abuse in the area where they live. I appreciate the response. I have checked into some of these laws. I believe that there will be links on the new abuse web site for people to look up these regulations for the various states also. Scott And if you know, you are also breaking the law. My point is that if there are facts - act on them and stop the criminals. If there are not facts - stop gossiping about it. I am still mystified as to why you have asked people to send you their experiences rather than just reporting them to the authorities.
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Post by justamom on Nov 7, 2007 10:57:54 GMT -5
As a survivor of sexual abuse, I have to agree with aussiegal on how the abuse effects the victims for the rest of their lives.
I can be around out and about and see someone who is the same built as my abuser was and it will kick me into a panic attack. I will hear phrases during the day that my abuser would say to me and it will kick me into a panic attack. To this day I can't sleep with my bedroom door open. I can smell different smells that remind me of my abuser and it will kick me into a panic attack.
Some days I don't mind getting hugs from others and some days or months I just want everyone to not touch me...
I am no longer a victim, as I have went thru therapy and I am now a survivor of sexual abuse but that doesn't mean that it don't haunt me every day.. as it still does.
I do feel that society tends to forget about the ones who were abused and focus so much time and effort on getting help for the one who was doing the abusing...
In my opinion, the abuser doesn't give a rip about what they are doing because if they did they would never dream of hurting a child the way they do.
I just wanted to add my two cents into this conversation from the perspective of a survivor....
Have a great Wednesday everyone!
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 7, 2007 11:24:04 GMT -5
Why Not, How would you go about reporting this? In the middle of the night I awoke with xxxxx kissing and hugging me--I immediately got up and went to the bathroom and stayed for several hours. In the morning xxxxx told me I had misunderstood his action and told me not to tell anyone. I tried to tell my mother and was told xxxxx would never do that and I should be ashamed for such a story. xxxxx married xxxxxxxx and lives in ......This was sent to me to find out if I had heard anything else concerning the (ex) worker in question. Scott
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Post by Why not on Nov 7, 2007 14:42:28 GMT -5
Why Not, How would you go about reporting this? In the middle of the night I awoke with xxxxx kissing and hugging me--I immediately got up and went to the bathroom and stayed for several hours. In the morning xxxxx told me I had misunderstood his action and told me not to tell anyone. I tried to tell my mother and was told xxxxx would never do that and I should be ashamed for such a story. xxxxx married xxxxxxxx and lives in ......This was sent to me to find out if I had heard anything else concerning the (ex) worker in question. Scott And so if you had heard? Either the writer has the facts to report the person or they do not. You can tell them 4 other names of people who also suffered but the justice system requires that people actually bring the cases against the person. Of course, the mother has also committed a crime on some states and could also be reported. Does it matter if xxxx has abused 1 other or 20 other children? Will having all of the people he abused in a room talking about it prevent him from abusing number 21? Isn't the point to get the criminals off the street?
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 7, 2007 14:48:23 GMT -5
My question was: How would you go about reporting this?I ask the question because you seem to feel that I should be reporting what I hear. I think that we would both agree that the one who should be reporting this is the one who was abused (or the parent). Scott
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Post by krame erica on Nov 8, 2007 13:53:56 GMT -5
three
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 14, 2007 9:48:20 GMT -5
Howdy, Does anyone have any ideas on how they feel abuse should be reported when one is not in the area the abuse took place in? I would appreciate any feedback concerning this. The situation of a 'resting worker' is of concern at the present time, as is the ex worker who was removed from the work, but began working for a professing family with that family not informed of the reason he was removed from the work. Scott
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Post by gem on Nov 14, 2007 9:59:47 GMT -5
That's a tough call to make Scott! Wish I had some ideas to tell ya ! Be interesting what others have to say....
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Post by Brick on Nov 14, 2007 12:13:19 GMT -5
Scott, here is an idea: in instances where it has been reported to the authorities, but no conviction resulted, it is not libel to state that so-and-so was investigated or indicted for whatever charge brought against them. While this may not put them away, it can spread awareness of the potential that is there. Furthermore, it is a matter of public record.
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Post by juliette on Nov 14, 2007 12:16:51 GMT -5
I think in all of these cases of concern, nothing was ever reported to the authorities.
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 14, 2007 12:47:32 GMT -5
You are correct Juli. These two cases were NOT reported to the authorities by the parents. One issue that would be good to point out is that depending on the State (or Province), the workers who know but do not report to the authorities, and also the parents who do not report can be in violation of the law. In the parents' case that could get Child Protective Services involved to look at whether the child is living in a safe environment. This can result in a child being taken from its home and placed into foster care. (my understanding by what I have been told by a police chief) Scott
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Post by shushy unplugged on Nov 14, 2007 13:09:42 GMT -5
The more frequently pedophiles are exposed, with the authorities/brought before the church as it should be the better. They are so controlling and manipulative, if they new the chances were high,of getting caught. If people are becoming more courageous about discussing and exposing this subject it may deter and save some children. It should be taught in schools.
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Post by gem on Nov 14, 2007 13:17:00 GMT -5
I'm just hoping those 2 cases you mentioned Scott didn't happen in Michigan!
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 14, 2007 13:33:01 GMT -5
No gem they didn't. One is up in Canada, and the other is in the southeast. The southeast case is also linked to issues that happened back in the 70's that also were not reported... Scott
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Post by gem on Nov 14, 2007 13:37:39 GMT -5
Thanks Scott!
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Post by decarg on Nov 14, 2007 13:39:22 GMT -5
The situation of a 'resting worker' is of concern at the present time, as is the ex worker who was removed from the work, but began working for a professing family with that family not informed of the reason he was removed from the work.
Where is the victim in all of this? And why can't someone just tell the family that this "ex worker" is working for? Or tell the authorities in this area? Is the victim willing to address it? Discuss it? Where is the "resting" worker? Is the victim , in this case, willing to discuss it? Do the authorities in the state of the "resting" worker know anything?
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Post by Why on Nov 14, 2007 19:29:24 GMT -5
Why doesn't someone hire a private investigator to snoop on the 'resting' worker? If the person is 'active', pursue legal action; if the purpose is 'inactive', leave him alone - let him die in peace.
Sometimes people get a little TOO law-abiding. All these people wanting to turn someone over to the police who has not touched a kid in fifty years . . those same people run stopsigns, speed in excess, lie, cheat, gossip, and curse their fellow citizens, all of which can hurt a person just as much and maybe more in some cases.
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Post by juliette on Nov 15, 2007 16:00:21 GMT -5
Why doesn't someone hire a private investigator to snoop on the 'resting' worker? If the person is 'active', pursue legal action; if the purpose is 'inactive', leave him alone - let him die in peace. Sometimes people get a little TOO law-abiding. All these people wanting to turn someone over to the police who has not touched a kid in fifty years . . those same people run stopsigns, speed in excess, lie, cheat, gossip, and curse their fellow citizens, all of which can hurt a person just as much and maybe more in some cases. And how would one know if someone who sexually abused kids is still a threat? These crimes take place in secret, and the kids are coerced into not telling. And then sometimes when they do tell, no on calls the authorities. Is there some sort of magical way to tell if someone is still a threat? If so, someone could make a lot of money of of that! Let's say that there is an older senior brother worker with a history of sexually molesting young girls. Let's say that two of his victims have come forward in some way, but the statute of limitations is up on both cases (the abuse in these cases happened 20 and 40 years ago). Let's say that current senior brother workers have acknowledged that the worker had problems years ago. Let's say that the worker in question is still in the work. How do we know if he's still a threat? Is there an age at which would you consider him to be "inactive". And then if you decide he's not a threat anymore, what about his victims.... their lives were changed forever because of what he did and because of how their family reacted, and he's still preaching at conventions. And then what about the reputation of the ministry.... a senior brother worker who sexually abused girls is your moral authority and a conduit to God?! What if he murdered someone 30 years ago and that was covered up?
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Post by brethren on Nov 15, 2007 16:30:09 GMT -5
And how would one know if someone who sexually abused kids is still a threat? These crimes take place in secret, and the kids are coerced into not telling. And then sometimes when they do tell, no on calls the authorities. www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/11/12/1194766590239.htmlOnce they became aware of the allegations, sect leaders interviewed the alleged victims and perpetrator, then immediately handed the case over to police.
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