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Post by juliette on Nov 3, 2007 22:34:45 GMT -5
I'm looking for opinions on the subject of pedophile workers. I'm not looking for a debate about cover-ups, and this is not a thread for the discussion of specific people... ABSOLUTELY NO NAMES, PLEASE.
I'd like to start with this premise....
Charges of sexual crimes against a child are brought against a worker, the victim is now an adult and the alleged abuser is alive. For whatever reason (the child never told, the child told but the parents didn't report it) the authorities were not called at the time of the abuse, and now the statute of limitations is up on the crime.
Assuming the victim (now an adult) is willing to file a report with the authorities (but no charges can be brought) what should be done with the worker in question? After filing the police report, what should the victim do? What should the overseer workers do? Should the alleged abuser remain in the work?
Additional question... if one victim's report is not enough for action by the workers, how many victim reports do you believe would be enough for action to be taken?
Please, serious answers only and again, no names.
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Post by aussiegal on Nov 3, 2007 22:59:30 GMT -5
For the victims sake, and for future victims sake, it needs to be reported to authorities and all people in authority. This includes the overseer workers. IMO the worker that has the allegations made against him should not be allowed to be in a situation that allows him/her to be around children - and certainly not alone with a child.
If this happened to myself or my child, I would request to speak with the overseers AND the worker that has allegedly conducted the abuse and insist that a protection policy be put in place for the sake of future victims. I would also try to include an unbiased witness (counsellor?) in this conversation.
IMO the worker should be stood down from his/her position.
One victim report is one too many... action should be taken immediately by the workers.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by nitro on Nov 3, 2007 23:01:00 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2007 5:50:55 GMT -5
Maybe what the workers can do is set up a web site about exes, ie
Name......... Official Exit Reason .......... Real Reason ........
Allegations (see attachments) ......... Corroborating Evidence............
It's not going to happen, is it?
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Post by aussiegal on Nov 4, 2007 6:07:27 GMT -5
Bert I'm appalled that you can be so insensitive to such a topic as child abuse. You may not be innocent... but children are.
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ecarg
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Post by ecarg on Nov 4, 2007 6:54:36 GMT -5
Bert.........leaving a Church and sexually abusing children in the same "thought"? As if "exes" are criminals? Craziness. Come on now.........surely you were not serious. JULIETTE: Hi . What a great thread. I will do my best to reply with some "meat". I appreciate your time and energy in this matter. I understand that the statue of limitations have run out. But this worker is probably abusing others or has abused others that the statue of limitations is not run out. There are people within the legal system that will pursue this. People WILL listen to this victim's story and will take it serious and will help in these matters. Especially psychotherapists and counselors. There are networks of professionals that work specifically on these matters. I will e-mail you more info when I collect it. ( it's in the works ) Just as in the Catholic Church ( I'm Catholic, so please no one attack me here ) going to the Higher Priest doesn't always work. Fear, power, control, accountability, and other human attributes can come out, and nothing get's done about it. Very wrong, but very true. I'm not saying to not report it within the "2x2" system. But I am saying that it should not be the only place it is reported. And if it is reported in the "2x2" system and nothing is done, then the accountability of others gets even bigger. When trying to deal with some of the "friends" , they will not listen unless a "worker" says it. That can be very frustrating I know. There are news reporters that also work in the system to inform others. Get the word out. I understand that reporters can be a sorce of contention for some, so please everyone, don't blast me on this one either. I'm just saying, it should be reported, everywhere. The news media played a major role is rooting out some of the pedophiles within the Catholic Church. I have to carry the shame for some of this because of my religious beliefs but I'm still glad it was reported all over the world. YEAH! I'm used to the "Body of Christ" effecting me positively and negatively. It's humanity. To the victim, I had to leave some of my best friends and family to heal from my sexual abuse and become a survivor. Especially because they were in the "2x2' system and would not hear of my abuse. It was like being abused over and over again. Sometimes its better to let go of some of our relationships for the sake of inner healing and peace. I encourage the victim to find outside sorces to help in this recovery. I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this issue. It's not an easy one. I'm proud of you for stepping in and trying to make a difference in our world. You bless me!
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Brenda
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Post by Brenda on Nov 4, 2007 8:21:24 GMT -5
1. My thoughts would be report it to the authorities-- even if they cant prosecute they certainly could keep a better eye on the individual in case he is still abusing children.
2. Let the workers know and let them know you informed the authorities-- I also agree the person should not be allowed to minister-- but I guess that is up to the workers in charge and let what happens be on their conscience, afterall they are not hiding anything from God.
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Post by Gene on Nov 4, 2007 15:46:42 GMT -5
I think a three-prong approach as others have mentioned is probably good:
First, file a police report to get it on record, statue of limitations or no -- if possible to do so.
Second, report it to advocacy organizations that have counselors, therapists, social workers, attorneys etc. who may be able to help -- and they may be compiling information like this to assist their efforts in introducing legislation to eliminate statutes of limitation in such cases.
Third, go to the overseers or other responsible workers and ask for a tribunal of some sort. The victim should be able to face and accuse the perpetrator, and some panel of senior workers and elders should be there to hear the case and pass judgement as to whether the accused should remain in the work or not.
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Post by Johnny D on Nov 4, 2007 16:45:02 GMT -5
Maybe what the workers can do is set up a web site about exes, ie Name......... Official Exit Reason .......... Real Reason ........
Allegations (see attachments) ......... Corroborating Evidence............
It's not going to happen, is it? Not sure which way you mean this??. .that we ex truth churchers would have a problem with being on that list??? .. if that is what you meant, I would have absolutely NO problem being named on that list...should I have something to hide or cover up why I left?? .. I doubt many of the folks here would have anything against their names listed and why they left either!. . .matter of fact if there were such a list it'd probably clear up a heap of mud about people who've left and the actual reasons why!!! Johnny DeRaad
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2007 16:58:14 GMT -5
Sounds about right to me Gene. The victim shouldn't expect any action from the overseers though. If the law won't do anything, you can bet they won't either. Unless.....there have been other accusations and this one may tip the scales to get this guy away from children in their own homes. Or, at least it would put the overseers on alert and this fellow may get watched more closely. Regardless of the outcome, the process of going through the steps could help the victim. While I can't put myself in the victim's shoes, I do know that having been on the losing end of some advocacy situations, I felt satisfied nonetheless because I had done all I could for that person. I suspect I would feel a similar relief if I had been abused and did all I could to make things right regardless of success or failure of the actions. I think a three-prong approach as others have mentioned is probably good: First, file a police report to get it on record, statue of limitations or no -- if possible to do so. Second, report it to advocacy organizations that have counselors, therapists, social workers, attorneys etc. who may be able to help -- and they may be compiling information like this to assist their efforts in introducing legislation to eliminate statutes of limitation in such cases. Third, go to the overseers or other responsible workers and ask for a tribunal of some sort. The victim should be able to face and accuse the perpetrator, and some panel of senior workers and elders should be there to hear the case and pass judgement as to whether the accused should remain in the work or not.
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matia
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Post by matia on Nov 4, 2007 18:12:55 GMT -5
Just thought I would add this Years ago when I was( IN IT) is was not a recognised thing to go to the authorities, the workers when child abuse had taken place ( Of course I kind of forgot that it is a secret society ) I wished the heck I had off especially when it was a member of my family that had been abused . Man it makes me upset , when a prominant member of the 2x2s , the Truth, The Only way , call it what like , Coonites , the WI society, Church without a name , or what ever, makes mockery of this abuse even after about 40 years ago . Why I as a young teenager did not go to the Police , I dont know, and do you know what , THE ABUSER HAD THE DAMM CHEEK TO COME TO MY MOTHERS FUNERAL. Oh no you must not go to the Workers over such things as it might upset your Spirit. Even now I say to my self , how weak I was not to go to the Police , but it wasnt the thing to do Why do the workers , the preachers , the homeless ones, the servants , ect ect ect allow these abuses to carry on preaching to the unsaved, My reasoning is that they are unsaved themselves. So what happens when a outsider make their ( choice) are they saved or not ? Thats all
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Post by investigation them on Nov 4, 2007 18:36:10 GMT -5
Usually pedophiles are repeat offenders. If a person is truly an offender it is very likely that more people have been affected and are afraid to speak up. Likely a full investigation will bring out collaboration and accusers who are within the statute of limitations who can press charges. In the recent mata case there were many many victims who could no longer press charges and many more who were afraid to do so, but all it took were for a few to have courage.
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Brenda
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Post by Brenda on Nov 4, 2007 19:21:49 GMT -5
I really agree with this-- this person needs to let someone know-- especially the authorities because who knows what the worker will do
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Post by gem on Nov 4, 2007 20:18:20 GMT -5
I agree with reply #11 and #12 ..someone should know about what's going on ....before the child molester/pedophiles does any further damage to an innocent child.. Ecarg: I agree with you...an excellent thread
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Post by Observing on Nov 5, 2007 2:19:02 GMT -5
Charges of sexual crimes against a child are brought against a worker, the victim is now an adult and the alleged abuser is alive. For whatever reason (the child never told, the child told but the parents didn't report it) the authorities were not called at the time of the abuse, and now the statute of limitations is up on the crime. First of all, check to see if the statute of limitations have run out. Many states have no limits on child abuse. Several states will offer extensions. Sometimes the time does not start until the person becomes an adult. Go to the authorities and find out what the laws are in the jurisdictions involved. Providing proof after a number of years is a difficult task. I would think the best course of action would be to contact the overseer and inform them of the situation and your concerns and ask them what steps they will be taking. This is really a call for vigilante action. It can have the reverse effect. Remember the Salem Witch trials - many people claimed that they had had spells cast on them. There have been many cases where a number of people have falsely testified and ruined the lives of innocent people. Memories and not carved in stone and it can easily be shown how inaccurate people's memories, especially over a long period of time and when it carries a lot of emotional baggage. However, I would think that if an overseer hears independently from several different people that it should raise enough flags to be a cause for action. But even with this data you just cannot go about accusing people of child abuse without some supporting evidence. Better to protect your children, educate them as to proper adult behavior, educate the workers as to what is expected of them, and, above all, if something happens go immediately to the authorities.
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matia
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Post by matia on Nov 5, 2007 3:06:23 GMT -5
I would like to know the answer to the above So what happens when a outsider make their ( choice) through an abuser , a worker, are they saved or not ? Thats all
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Post by Peacemaker on Nov 5, 2007 7:37:49 GMT -5
I would like to know the answer to the above So what happens when a outsider make their ( choice) through an abuser , a worker, are they saved or not ? Thats all I do not honestly think that mortal man can answer your question with any guarantee of correctness. God knows the answer because His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not His ways... Looking at it from a human perspective, I would say that an abusing worker would be discredited in the sight of God and his fruits would probably be discredited also. However, God might look at other things, like the condition of the heart of the person who genuinely professed; who knows.
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ecarg
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Post by ecarg on Nov 5, 2007 7:43:58 GMT -5
mjr207 Can you start a new thread? About the "making your choice" and "being saved". I think you will get better responses. I would like to share a few things, but this thread is about sex abuse. A new thread might get other peoples attention better. Just a thought. PEACE!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2007 7:45:05 GMT -5
Man does not and cannot grant salvation. The most they can do is point people to the One who does. I would like to know the answer to the above So what happens when a outsider make their ( choice) through an abuser , a worker, are they saved or not ? Thats all
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ecarg
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Post by ecarg on Nov 5, 2007 7:48:15 GMT -5
mjr207 Can you start a new thread? About the "making your choice" and "being saved". I think you will get better responses. I would like to share a few things, but this thread is about sex abuse. A new thread might get other peoples attention better. Just a thought. Also, I know why you didn't go to the police. You were a teenager in a secret sect. ( so was I ) I get it. I don't know if the abuse happened to you or to a family member or both, but don't beat yourself up for not reporting it. Especially if you were a child/teen/young adult. But if you are in a good emotional/spiritual space, you can sure do things about it now. So don't be so hard on yourself. Make a difference. PEACE!
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Post by Peacemaker on Nov 5, 2007 8:09:25 GMT -5
ecarg Do you actually mean that he will get better responses or a better response (more responses).
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Post by heal on Nov 5, 2007 8:51:34 GMT -5
The one involved regardless years after can still file charges I think those cases are pressed upon to come forward
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Post by eyedeetentee on Nov 5, 2007 15:16:18 GMT -5
You want opinions? If it happened years ago, are you sure the person is still abusing? If not, maybe the person has already paid for his stupidity so why is it necessary to dredge it all up again? Humans need closure. But in christianity, God is the closer. If the person is no longer an abuser, let him be. People love cleaning out everyone else's closets, dragging out skeletons, and causing harm. Consider the person may have corrected a past harmful activity and has built up a mental/emotional wall to that activity. Maybe that activity still resides in that person but is no longer active. If it is no longer active, leave him alone. By pealing off the scab, you will just make the wound bleed again. Are you wanting to recreate the past? Let him suffer with his own skeletons or demons. The compassion of christians is a contradictory phrase, imo.
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 5, 2007 15:33:41 GMT -5
Well now, That there is the whole issue. How does one know if the person is no longer an abuser? There is now a 'resting' worker who abused a child, the parents don't want to press charges. Do you suppose they think this was an isolated one time thing? What about the email I have concerning this same worker 3 decades ago abusing the son of the woman who sent it, and the one other young guy she knows about? Where do you draw the line? How many others were abused over those 3 decades? There's the ex worker north of the border who abused a relatives child. Sure he's not a worker now, but he's still around other kids. In fact he brought a young guy to a gospel meeting with him. No one has let those he is around now know why he was booted out of the work. He moved to a different area and got a job working for a professing guy.... who doesn't know why he is no longer a worker.... and has kids...... I have over 20 names of workers and elders alive and dead, active and out who have been sent to me and identified as being abusers. Some of them DO need to be reported. I put a few people in contact with each other that each gave me the same abuser name. They can pursue that if they want. The days of shuffling around pedophiles and rapists and hiding the sins are coming to a close. This is not an 'ex' vs 'professing' issue. Those who have contacted me are both in and out, and want the same thing. Scott
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Post by gem on Nov 5, 2007 16:31:03 GMT -5
Just wondering..has anyone or does anyone know of someone
who has gone to a head worker/overseer and ask them
bluntly and directly why the child molestation problem is
not being handled correctly and what are the reasons for that?
no names please..
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Post by Why not on Nov 5, 2007 18:00:51 GMT -5
Well now,
That there is the whole issue. How does one know if the person is no longer an abuser?
There is now a 'resting' worker who abused a child, the parents don't want to press charges. Do you suppose they think this was an isolated one time thing?
One doesn't know. That is why you report him to the authorities. Have you done that yet or are you just sitting on the knowledge allowing children to be victimized?
What about the email I have concerning this same worker 3 decades ago abusing the son of the woman who sent it, and the one other young guy she knows about? Where do you draw the line? How many others were abused over those 3 decades?
What line? If you know they are abusing children, or know that they did in the past, report them.
There's the ex worker north of the border who abused a relatives child. Sure he's not a worker now, but he's still around other kids. In fact he brought a young guy to a gospel meeting with him. No one has let those he is around now know why he was booted out of the work. He moved to a different area and got a job working for a professing guy.... who doesn't know why he is no longer a worker.... and has kids......
Have you reported him? Or are you protecting him?
I have over 20 names of workers and elders alive and dead, active and out who have been sent to me and identified as being abusers.
"Tailgunner Joe" McCarthy had his lists as well. Depending on the day they had 57 or 205 or 85 people on them. When they were finally shown it turns out all he had was a state department list with the names redacted.
Some of them DO need to be reported.
You have the data - report them.
I put a few people in contact with each other that each gave me the same abuser name. They can pursue that if they want. The days of shuffling around pedophiles and rapists and hiding the sins are coming to a close. This is not an 'ex' vs 'professing' issue. Those who have contacted me are both in and out, and want the same thing.
Why is it a thing of the past? Have you reported a single person that you know has abused a child?
You have 20 names. I have 75 names. With photos and signed letters. But I will not act on them.
I wonder what function you think you play here. You drop hints but never act on the data you claim to have. Aside from the voyeuristic gratification you get from having people air their dirty laundry to you, what have you done regarding the people who are out there abusing children?
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Post by aussiegal on Nov 5, 2007 18:25:11 GMT -5
This is not an issue that should be "left in the closet"... I think some here have forgotten about the victims here! Being a mother of a victim myself, (not of a worker thank goodness) the abuse NEEDS to be reported and acted on by authorities. The devastation caused to the victim lives on... they are the ones that suffer often for the rest of their lives. How do you think the child feels... that what happened to the child dosen't matter? Of course it matters!
Often the abuser has no conscience about what he/she has done (otherwise why would they hurt the child to start with?)... regardless as "eydeedentee" says about dragging up the past etc etc etc... for the victims sake it must be dealt with. I don't care if it was a "once-off" thing or an abuser that continues to abuse other children... the abuser needs to be reported!
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Post by eyedeetentee on Nov 5, 2007 19:50:22 GMT -5
Posted by aussiegal on Today at 6:25pm: This is not an issue that should be "left in the closet"... I think some here have forgotten about the victims here! Being a mother of a victim myself, (not of a worker thank goodness) the abuse NEEDS to be reported and acted on by authorities. The devastation caused to the victim lives on... they are the ones that suffer often for the rest of their lives. How do you think the child feels... that what happened to the child dosen't matter? Of course it matters!
Often the abuser has no conscience about what he/she has done (otherwise why would they hurt the child to start with?)... regardless as "eydeedentee" says about dragging up the past etc etc etc... for the victims sake it must be dealt with. I don't care if it was a "once-off" thing or an abuser that continues to abuse other children... the abuser needs to be reported!"
"Suffer for the rest of their lives" - so by dredging up history, the victim will get over it? I don't think so. You're not only reliving the past for the victim but the abuser as well. Is it for your gratification? Let's say it happened thirty years ago. Let's say the abuser was a one-timer. (This subject and the responses are giving me indigestion.) Why is it, as a parent, you feel you need to hang the abuser? Do you believe you failed somehow? It seems to be more of an issue to you than to the abused. Bear in mind, the abused has a brain and has dealt with the matter or will deal with it as soon as the parent backs off and quits bringing up the matter.
You don't think the abuser suffers? That's why they call it a sickness - the abuser suffers. How do you know of the conscience of the abuser? Why did the person hurt the child in the first place? It probably was not seen by the abuser as harmful. The abuser may need love and is stuck in mind at one age.
The mind is complex. I understand why you are defensive but I suggest (to all such people) backing off from the matter and looking on it with an open mind to all issues, not just one's personal moral stance.
I disagree with you - you have a right to your opinion.
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