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Post by ozelaine on Aug 23, 2006 1:08:16 GMT -5
bert wrote:
These things are written for us all
Who are the "us all" bert? Believers? Or the lost? Or everyone?
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eurp
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Post by eurp on Aug 23, 2006 1:40:53 GMT -5
As I see this now then...
There could be some who are saved without any foreknowledge of God, nor any thoughts about God or any inclination to even consider Him.
And after they are chosen to be saved, wihout any human intervention (preacher, witness whatever), then they afterward woud have no knowledge of God, but they still are saved. Even though they don't know it.
Do I understand that possibility right?
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Post by ozelaine on Aug 23, 2006 2:28:06 GMT -5
eurp wrote:
There could be some who are saved without any foreknowledge of God, nor any thoughts about God or any inclination to even consider Him.
Not at all. Salvation comes to man by the proclaiming/hearing/reading and believing of the Gospel through whatever vessel God chooses. To believe the Gospel God gives faith, and with the giving of faith to believe His Gospel there will be no ignorance of that event. I remember it like a Damascus Road experience.
And after they are chosen to be saved, wihout any human intervention (preacher, witness whatever), then they afterward woud have no knowledge of God, but they still are saved. Even though they don't know it.
I don't know how you came to that conclusion! What I am saying is that God chooses, God calls, God makes alive, God regenerates and most often through the words of a true witness of the Gospel or like Paul through the words of Christ himself. We can't have a knowledge of God while still dead spiritually. And when alive spiritually we can't be ignorant of God. The born again experience is mind and life changing, instantly.
Do I understand that possibility right?
No. I believe it would be impossible.
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eurp
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Post by eurp on Aug 23, 2006 6:01:15 GMT -5
Elaine, thanks for your explanations. It was lacpastor who wrote what I thought meant what I said about being saved without any contact from anyone.
I was trying to understand what he said.
I now suspect thast you and he think differently, or, alternatively, I completely misunderstood him.
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Post by HUCK on Aug 23, 2006 6:11:43 GMT -5
OzElaine,
How can you contend that Nathan is "believing another gospel" and "is still lost" as you quoted in Reply #33? Just because he doesn't understand predestination?
His statement in Reply #29 appears to be the testimony of a saved man where he said "I know I receive my Salvation when I accept Jesus Christ as my Savior so I don't need wait to the end to find out."
Regardless of the election process, when a person comes to, believes in, accepts Jesus, (whatever term we use), then he/she is biblically saved. Our understanding of the process isn't what determines whether we've ''believed another gospel'' or not. Of course it's the same gospel that you and I believe....Nathan's not promoting Buddhism here.
Not understanding the process of cheesemaking doesn't mean we can't enjoy the cheese.
Howard
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 6:39:31 GMT -5
Re "Who are the "us all" bert? Believers? Or the lost? Or everyone? Everyone. We are all held to account by the same scripture
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 6:45:54 GMT -5
Elaine, thanks for your explanations. It was lacpastor who wrote what I thought meant what I said about being saved without any contact from anyone. I was trying to understand what he said. I now suspect thast you and he think differently, or, alternatively, I completely misunderstood him. I agree with ozelaine, and I apologize for not answering your question more completely- thanks for clarifying! Karl
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eurp
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Post by eurp on Aug 23, 2006 8:18:36 GMT -5
Karl
thanks for clarification. My misunderstanding - one of the limitation sof this form of communication I guess.
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Post by Jessi on Aug 23, 2006 11:17:50 GMT -5
Huck: There is a difference between ELECT and SAVED, according to the doctrine of predestination/election (Acts 13:48 For as many as were ordained . . . ). Before, they were ELECT, ordained/chosen (before the foundation of the world-Eph 1:4) and then they were saved because the LORD GOD opened their hearts (Acts 16:14). Now, they are ELECT AND SAVED. But God, according to the Word, did it all.
Eurp/Prue/bert- All creatures God has made know there is a God and are therefore without excuse (Rom 1:20).
Peace in the Lord, Jessi
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eurp
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Post by eurp on Aug 23, 2006 12:41:16 GMT -5
Can't answer for the other three (who are in another continent ) but I don't beleive that.
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Post by HUCK on Aug 23, 2006 13:16:20 GMT -5
Huck: There is a difference between ELECT and SAVED, Peace in the Lord, Jessi Yes, that's clear to me.....always has been. Didn't mean to confuse the issue. Must have been my keyboard
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Post by Jessi on Aug 23, 2006 17:42:43 GMT -5
HUCK: OIC. Carry on. As you were.
Chris is Lord, Jessi
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Post by For Howard on Aug 23, 2006 20:56:54 GMT -5
Nathan will say Jesus is his savior in one breath, and in the next tell us, albeit vaguely, that workers are required for salvation.
Nathan is on the fence and not sure.
Really
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 21:02:05 GMT -5
Nathan will say Jesus is his savior in one breath, and in the next tell us, albeit vaguely, that workers are required for salvation. Nathan is on the fence and not sure. Really Jesus Christ is the requirement for Salvation. What about the 2x2 itinerant ministry as part of the Gospel? Karl
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Aug 23, 2006 21:10:19 GMT -5
What about the 2x2 itinerant ministry as part of the Gospel? Karl Ah, the eternal quest.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 21:11:06 GMT -5
Re "2x2 itinerant ministry as part of the Gospel" Yes, it is. Jesus established it and sent it out into all the world. Correct me if I am wrong Nathan but didn't he say there will be a ministry when he returns?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 21:15:08 GMT -5
That says it all...
Karl
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 21:21:37 GMT -5
Those verses make no mention of "a" ministry.
Karl
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 21:31:28 GMT -5
Thanks Nathan. Re "PREACHED! in ALL the world for a Witness unto ALL nations then shall the end comes." Preach as in preacher? Jesus used the verse in that context? Also in Revelation it refers to the two witnesses who were killed in the last days?
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Post by a believer on Aug 23, 2006 21:33:47 GMT -5
Agree, there is no mention of a ministry - just saints/believers as being 'the church', after all we are all part of the priesthood of believers. Not just left for those in ministry to spread the Word, it was the believers that went everywhere preaching the word in Acts... don't see where that was stopped and it left for a few.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 21:40:13 GMT -5
Those verses make no mention of "a" ministry. Karl Here are some good verses for you to ponder.... The household of God are BUILT upon the foundation of the apostles, prophets, and Jesus Christ himself being the CHIEF cornerstone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto holy temple of the Lord. (Eph. 2:19,20) (Eph. 3:1-7) In other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body and partakers of His promise in Christ By the GOSPEL! where of I (Paul) was made a minister.... that I should PREACH among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ... ~~~ Here is another good verse to think about, Karl. I Cor. 12:28 God has set some in the church first apostles, secondarily, prophet, and thirdly teachers.... The 2x2 Itinerant apostles ministry is part of the Church of Jesus. How about a passage (like a chapter maybe) in context that clearly states what you, Prue, or Bert believe about the necessity of the 2x2 itinerant ministry, as well as it being part of the gospel. Anyone can take a verse out of context, or many verses and impose a meaning on them. It is harder to do this with a passage of length. Thanks in advance Karl
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 21:41:41 GMT -5
So who are the two witnesses?
Karl
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Post by the witnesses on Aug 23, 2006 21:45:31 GMT -5
I thought I had heard it all but to say the 2 witnesses is the 2x2 ministry beats them all. A twist of scripture if there ever was. Especially that your founder William Irvine believed he was going to be one of the 2 witnesses.
Yes Jesus called the 12 and then the 70, he did not say this was for all time. The 12 went 2x2 when Jesus was here and the 70 on a mission. Jesus minstry was for 3 years and the 70 on one mission. The apostles went out in any mumber after Jesus left them....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 21:48:32 GMT -5
hi lacpastor - the two witnesses are not given names you can find them in rev11.3 it is talking about the last times prue
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 21:51:22 GMT -5
Isn't W. Irvine to be one of them Bert?
Karl
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 21:56:13 GMT -5
Read about the Transfiguration- that will tell you who the two witnesses probably are...
Karl
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 22:01:25 GMT -5
What about W. Irvine and his prophecy about himf being one of the two witnesses?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 22:03:52 GMT -5
So does that make him a false prophet?
Karl
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