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Post by just think on Mar 4, 2006 20:59:14 GMT -5
It is not a matter of better than you, holier than thou....
Just take a look at the ones who strap themselves with bombs.They really think they see the "light" at the end of the tunnel...
self-deception is greater than satan deception
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Post by I love it on Mar 4, 2006 21:31:20 GMT -5
It isn't about those who strap themselves with bombs but in a way one can see a parallel with the thinking of those and a lot who post here. Those who post here just aren't as radical in their actions but their thinking IS just as radical. The "I am right and I know God and you are Lost" attitude and they also think they ssee the "light".
Agreed and revealed so many times on this board by those who think they are always right or have all the answers.
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Post by Ed on Mar 4, 2006 22:01:47 GMT -5
Towit, I am glad to know that you too are following Christ and experiencing blessing. I was also part of a "good" meeting and felt loved. However, when the overseer found out I had visited some other churches, read some Christian books and no longer believed other non-2x2 Christians were going to hell - I was told I should not come back to meetings.
In other words, watch your back. An overseer wields unquestionable authority and you can quickly discover you have no real friends or recourse.
Ed
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Post by well well on Mar 4, 2006 22:10:14 GMT -5
Towit, I am glad to know that you too are following Christ and experiencing blessing. I was also part of a "good" meeting and felt loved. However, when the overseer found out I had visited some other churches, read some Christian books and no longer believed other non-2x2 Christians were going to hell - I was told I should not come back to meetings. In other words, watch your back. An overseer wields unquestionable authority and you can quickly discover you have no real friends or recourse. Ed then I would say WHO CARES? what any "overseer " or anyone else says? When you have been made "whole".I mean when you just know that you know that God is with you,It is what GOD says that REALLY matters. What a FRIEND we have in Jesus.Halleleuiah.
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Post by as i c it on Mar 5, 2006 23:58:35 GMT -5
"Amen". I'm glad you posted again. It's gives us a chance to get to know you better. May I ask what issues of our faith have concerned you? (I'm wondering if they're the same issues I have?)
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Post by Amen on Mar 6, 2006 9:13:36 GMT -5
"Amen". I'm glad you posted again. It's gives us a chance to get to know you better. May I ask what issues of our faith have concerned you? (I'm wondering if they're the same issues I have?) I have not seen my concerns discussed here on this board. I don't think they would be. I will keep them between those affected, myself and those who can make the changes, and pray they do.
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towit
Senior Member
. . .with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right. . .
Posts: 295
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Post by towit on Mar 6, 2006 13:29:57 GMT -5
Edgar, I apologize for the "lateness" (in discussion board time) to answering your questions. Another poster "called me out on it". In truth, I took a relaxing and extended weekend- and I purposely stayed away from a computer- I work with one all day- so it is nice to get a break. Now, on to the rebuttal. You wrote: That way I read your sentence is this: towit, you are dishonest because you follow the 2x2 teaching. It is obvious that you are not loyal to the principles of Christian teaching, but rather the far fetched, dishonest, and home-spun doctrine of a few religious fanatics that began just over a hundered years ago.You also wrote: You are correct regarding Jesus not saying anything about "churches meeting in homes"- but Paul wrote about churches meeting in homes. Paul was an apostle- he was charged with leading the Gentiles and we can see his love and care in great abundance in his writings to those churches. He evidently felt that there wasn't anything wrong with meeting in a home. I personally don't have a doctrinal conviction that that is the only way in which people should meet- but I do have a conviction that it is good and proper for me and my family to meet like that. you wrote: Once upon a time, the Lord called me to be a worker. It was with fear and trembling, and hope and love that I went into the harvest field. Jesus asked for his disciples to pray for such. I didn't go to be (as you wrote) a part of "an institutional ruling-class of super Christian administrators - who commit themselves to same-sex companionship and make exclusive claim to the title 'the servants of God'. If I was in a ruling-class- someone failed to notify me. I went into the work because I felt that I was called by God to do so. you wrote: Hmm, the first thing that comes to mind regarding Jesus's teachings- was when someone came to Him, seeking to tempt Him, and asked what was the greatest commandment. "Love God with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul." and the second was likened to it- "Love your neighbor as yourself." I can also think of the sermon on the mount- blessed are the meek, blessed are the poor in spirit, blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness. . . I can think of Jesus telling me to take up my cross daily and to deny self. . . I can think of the parable of the prodigal son, I can think of the story of the good samaritan (thank you for posting it in another post)- I can think upon the hope of being born again with a new life in Him, I can think upon Lazarus being raised from the dead, the blind given their sight back, the lepers cleansed, the deaf being made to hear and speak plainly. But, I know that I am boring you and the other readers of this post. My point is this- I don't know what you are accusing with the statement "And the things that Jesus did teach as important are NOT practiced or taught by the 2x2 group (other than by a superficial lip service in a few isolated instances)" I do believe that the Love of God should reign supreme in a believer's life- and that is evidenced by what they do to one another. I see that in the 2x2 fellowship- I am truly sorry that that hasn't been your experience. The elder of my last two meetings was divorced and remarried. Hmm, the worker's must have "forgave" them at some point. you wrote: Edgar, I do not teach my kids this. In all honesty- I was taught this growing up. I do not believe this. I do teach my kids to respect the workers. I do believe that they are God's representatives on earth (I'm leaving out the word "sole"- that you included.) I do not deny that there may be others in other religions or faiths that are God's representatives as well. you wrote: Hmm, it must not be 100% committed- as I do not hold this belief. So, you will need to revise it to at least 99.9% committed. I have read and studied the history of the 2x2s. But I didn't stop there- I also read the history of the Southern Baptists (the largest protestant denomination), the Methodists, and Catholicism. Catholicism may take me awhile. My friends are from all walks of life- Baptist, Methodist, Hindu, Catholic, etc. (It was my Catholic friend that sent me the books on the Catholic faith- it is interesting and enlightening reading.) Take care, and may God have mercy on us both.
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towit
Senior Member
. . .with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right. . .
Posts: 295
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Post by towit on Mar 6, 2006 13:39:09 GMT -5
Towit, I am glad to know that you too are following Christ and experiencing blessing. I was also part of a "good" meeting and felt loved. However, when the overseer found out I had visited some other churches, read some Christian books and no longer believed other non-2x2 Christians were going to hell - I was told I should not come back to meetings. In other words, watch your back. An overseer wields unquestionable authority and you can quickly discover you have no real friends or recourse. Ed Hi Ed, Thank you for your very respectful post. I understand. Take care and good days, towit
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Post by prayhard on Mar 6, 2006 14:33:12 GMT -5
Towit -
I would be bitter, too, if I was raised with false doctrine and taught a different Jesus than the one that the Bible teaches. Not being told of what He did and now what is DONE and how now there is NOTHING now anyone can do to earn salvation.
The 2X2's indoctrinate lies.
Bitterness against LIES sometimes take years to get through.
Strangely, you seem bitter towards others bitterness.
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Post by biassed accounts on Mar 6, 2006 14:41:19 GMT -5
I think you are misjudging towit, I do not read what you accuse him of, but nevertheless, the lies that you refer to are byandlarge 'misunderstandings' that eventially will be understood, largely I have always sensed that ireland was favored as a place for things to perpetuate from, not necessarily the beginning but an outpouring ofsorts....I don't know, and will not form wrong 'judgments' based on the biassed accounts I have read.....whate'er.
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Post by as i c it on Mar 6, 2006 15:13:38 GMT -5
"Amen", Thank you for your response. All must, of course, follow their own conscience, (in order to feel "peace" between them and God). Hope all your issues get nicely resolved for you.
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towit
Senior Member
. . .with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right. . .
Posts: 295
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Post by towit on Mar 6, 2006 15:18:46 GMT -5
I think you are misjudging towit, I do not read what you accuse him of, but nevertheless, the lies that you refer to are byandlarge 'misunderstandings' that eventially will be understood, largely I have always sensed that ireland was favored as a place for things to perpetuate from, not necessarily the beginning but an outpouring ofsorts....I don't know, and will not form wrong 'judgments' based on the biassed accounts I have read.....whate'er. Hi, I greatly appreciate your comments- especially your statement that the " lies that you refer to are by and large 'misunderstanding' that eventually will be understood." In my opinion, that is a very wise statement. I also appreciate your comments regarding Ireland. I'm unclear as to if you are from there or not- but it is nice to see folks that have a love for their native land.
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Post by quest to towit on Mar 6, 2006 15:25:07 GMT -5
thanks, my friend, I often enjoy your posts, so glad you/I could reciprocate a little. I am not from Ireland, but I certainly don't hold that against anyone, as I find it a very interesting place, from what I've read.
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towit
Senior Member
. . .with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right. . .
Posts: 295
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Post by towit on Mar 6, 2006 15:30:14 GMT -5
Towit - I would be bitter, too, if I was raised with false doctrine and taught a different Jesus than the one that the Bible teaches. Not being told of what He did and now what is DONE and how now there is NOTHING now anyone can do to earn salvation. The 2X2's indoctrinate lies. Bitterness against LIES sometimes take years to get through. Strangely, you seem bitter towards others bitterness. Prayhard, Thank you for taking the time to give your opinion to my opinion. For the record- and I know you know this- bitterness is a bad plant that needs to be rooted up before it turns to any number of sins. Thank you for the warning- I shall be vigilant against it springing up today. Regarding your statement 'The 2X2's indoctrinate lies. ' Actually, it is Satan that 'indoctrinates' lies. If you don't mind me editing your words- perhaps a more accurate sentence (in my opinion) would have been "The 2x2s may indoctrinate lies." Jesus told Peter that Satan sought to sift him like wheat. And that is why I pray hard, Prayhard, to see Jesus. And I also pray hard that I may live for others through the spirit of Christ. And I also pray (I need to pray harder) for my brothers and sisters in Christ. In fact, I can't think of anything that I don't need to pray harder for- including and especially giving thanks to God for His Love for me. Thanks again for your post. It brought a smile to me and helped put me in a better spirit. Cheers!
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Post by mrtindrucvionging on Apr 14, 2006 21:06:33 GMT -5
Towit - I would be bitter, too, if I was raised with false doctrine and taught a different Jesus than the one that the Bible teaches. Not being told of what He did and now what is DONE and how now there is NOTHING now anyone can do to earn salvation. The 2X2's indoctrinate lies. Bitterness against LIES sometimes take years to get through. Strangely, you seem bitter towards others bitterness. ..........and there are those who are bitter towards those who are bitter about others' bitterness. Now, let's all get this bitterness out of our system and put the past behind us; don't look back or you may turn into a bitter pillar of salt just like a salty dog.
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Post by towits friend on Apr 14, 2006 21:38:22 GMT -5
Your friend towit, obviusly does not know a lot about the group. If he knew that it has a lot of marks of a cult, then I am sure he would have a different opinion about your group.
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timber
Senior Member
Posts: 249
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Post by timber on Apr 14, 2006 23:35:48 GMT -5
I was definitely told "straight out" not to read anything other than Biblical dictionaries/encyclopedias and of course, the King James. The reason given was that I would be reading false interpretations. This would not only influence my own understanding, but could influence people in the meeting.
My understanding of Christianity and the Bible has been ENHANCED by my reading of CS Lewis, Thomas Merton, etc. Gee, wasn't the King James translated by men of the Church of England? Hmmm.
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Post by gorm on Apr 15, 2006 0:52:56 GMT -5
Could the author please reveal the name of this overseer? If this account is true....it means one of two things:
The truth and it's ministers are to be obeyed without question (since they are God's only annointed messengers)...or the ministers of the 2x2 faith should be perceieved to be sectarian bigots. Take your pick.
Perhaps, man is attempting to achieve a relationship between himself & God....and God receives unto Himself all who honestly strive to live by the rule of love.
Does The Lord care more for correct doctrine...than He cares for Love?
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forbidden experiences
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Post by forbidden experiences on Apr 15, 2006 1:50:36 GMT -5
Spanky, the "little red guy" on one's shoulder....could he be telling you of pleasures forbidden by conventional Christianity? Are these pleasure that harm none?. All of us who choose to dance to strange rythms can understand. Nobody needs to join the dance.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 12, 2015 16:13:10 GMT -5
Edgar, A few weeks ago I sent one of my good friends, who doesn't profess, he is Baptist, to this site. I asked him to tell me what he thought. That was it. I didn't give him a preamble as to what to expect, etc. He called me a few days later and his exact words were "Wow, there sure are some bitter people out there." He mentioned you as one of the bitter ones. The "2x2 fellowship" that you write about wasn't the same 2x2 fellowship that he had experienced in coming with me to meetings and growing up around me and my family and several other of the friends. He attended special meetings and conventions with me over the years as well. For you to call members of the "2x2 fellowship" brainwashed or members of a cult- it is offensive to even our non-professing friends. They love and care for me, just as I love and care for them- whether they be Baptist or Hindu (I actually have a few Hindu friends- but that's a different subject.) I wish you all the best, Edgar. I realize that your experiences aren't mine- but your anger is getting the better of your judgement- and of course, that is just my opinion. Sincerely, towit So what has changed in nine years?
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Post by snow on Aug 12, 2015 18:05:20 GMT -5
Towit - I would be bitter, too, if I was raised with false doctrine and taught a different Jesus than the one that the Bible teaches. Not being told of what He did and now what is DONE and how now there is NOTHING now anyone can do to earn salvation. The 2X2's indoctrinate lies. Bitterness against LIES sometimes take years to get through. Strangely, you seem bitter towards others bitterness. ..........and there are those who are bitter towards those who are bitter about others' bitterness. Now, let's all get this bitterness out of our system and put the past behind us; don't look back or you may turn into a bitter pillar of salt just like a salty dog.It would seem nothing has changed, not a thing. Exes are bitter and those who are professing are bitter that exes are bitter and on it goes I guess.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 12, 2015 19:34:38 GMT -5
It would seem nothing has changed, not a thing. Exes are bitter and those who are professing are bitter that exes are bitter and on it goes I guess. Actually it wasn't towit that mentioned the bitter exes, it was towit's non professing friend. That's the same thing that happened with daybreak's friend: A co-worker in my office pointed me here...he had found the site [TheLyingTruth] after a comment I made during a brief discussion with him about my beliefs. He mentioned that as he read, he wondered what in the world I'd gotten myself into. But the more he read, and reflected on what he knew of me, the less he could take the writings seriously. There's an obvious mismatch between what is said about the Truth and what he knows from observing my life.
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Post by matisse on Aug 12, 2015 19:54:34 GMT -5
It would seem nothing has changed, not a thing. Exes are bitter and those who are professing are bitter that exes are bitter and on it goes I guess. Actually it wasn't towit that mentioned the bitter exes, it was towit's non professing friend. That's the same thing that happened with daybreak's friend: A co-worker in my office pointed me here...he had found the site [TheLyingTruth] after a comment I made during a brief discussion with him about my beliefs. He mentioned that as he read, he wondered what in the world I'd gotten myself into. But the more he read, and reflected on what he knew of me, the less he could take the writings seriously. There's an obvious mismatch between what is said about the Truth and what he knows from observing my life. Except there is not a mismatch. There are some great people in the 2x2's, and some great things about being part of the 2x2's. There also are some serious problems in the organization. Although I have not read through all of the material on "The Lying Truth" website, so far, I have not seen anything untrue.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 12, 2015 20:29:51 GMT -5
Actually it wasn't towit that mentioned the bitter exes, it was towit's non professing friend. That's the same thing that happened with daybreak's friend: Except there is not a mismatch. There are some great people in the 2x2's, and some great things about being part of the 2x2's. There also are some serious problems in the organization. Although I have not read through all of the material on "The Lying Truth" website, so far, I have not seen anything untrue. Thank you Matisse. Here's the problem, have you seen anything on TLT that represents the great people in the fellowship? Have you seen a single reference, even one to something good about the fellowship? The fatal flaw that these non-professing people notice is the 100% bad and evil portrayal of the fellowship and by default the people in it. Acting like there is no good whatsoever is how the activist exe rhetoric poisons itself. That is what those non-professing observers noted.
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Post by placid-void on Aug 12, 2015 20:32:19 GMT -5
Although I have not read through all of the material on "The Lying Truth" website, so far, I have not seen anything untrue. Good evening matisse, it has been some time since we last chatted. I read your post with interest. I am not challenging your point of view or your beliefs with the questions I would like to ask about your last post. Many people on TMB speak about what is "true" (note small "t") and what is untrue. I am curious about the rigor with which these words are used. What kind of things are true? I generally associate the word true with things that are objectively observed, measured and confirmed by multiple observers to act in specific and predictable ways. Is this this sort of in accordance with your use of the word? One of the challenges encountered in the humanities compared to the sciences is the fact that it is seldom possible to observe all relevant aspects of human interaction dynamics. Portions of an individual's experiences, motivations and thought processes are often hidden from an outside observer. In the absence of these critical observations and measures, is the use of "true/untrue" the most appropriate word to use when describing the actions of others and interpreting these actions against one's own perception of "fact" and "not-fact". I do not ask these questions in the spirit of contention but rather as the basis for a discussion on the appropriate weight to be assigned to the conversational use of the words "true" and "untrue". Thanks for your consideration of my questions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 20:42:14 GMT -5
Re the TLT I am reminded of what Jesus said about apostates: "When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order. "Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first."
And then you see people behaving in a way they never did, or would dream of doing, before.
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Post by matisse on Aug 12, 2015 20:59:32 GMT -5
Except there is not a mismatch. There are some great people in the 2x2's, and some great things about being part of the 2x2's. There also are some serious problems in the organization. Although I have not read through all of the material on "The Lying Truth" website, so far, I have not seen anything untrue. Thank you Matisse. Here's the problem, have you seen anything on TLT that represents the great people in the fellowship? Have you seen a single reference, even one to something good about the fellowship? The fatal flaw that these non-professing people notice is the 100% bad and evil portrayal of the fellowship and by default the people in it. Acting like there is no good whatsoever is how the activist exe rhetoric poisons itself. That is what those non-professing observers noted. Sounds like you have nothing to worry about, then.
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Post by matisse on Aug 12, 2015 21:30:23 GMT -5
Although I have not read through all of the material on "The Lying Truth" website, so far, I have not seen anything untrue. Good evening matisse, it has been some time since we last chatted. I read your post with interest. I am not challenging your point of view or your beliefs with the questions I would like to ask about your last post. Many people on TMB speak about what is "true" (note small "t") and what is untrue. I am curious about the rigor with which these words are used. What kind of things are true? I generally associate the word true with things that are objectively observed, measured and confirmed by multiple observers to act in specific and predictable ways. Is this this sort of in accordance with your use of the word? One of the challenges encountered in the humanities compared to the sciences is the fact that it is seldom possible to observe all relevant aspects of human interaction dynamics. Portions of an individual's experiences, motivations and thought processes are often hidden from an outside observer. In the absence of these critical observations and measures, is the use of "true/untrue" the most appropriate word to use when describing the actions of others and interpreting these actions against one's own perception of "fact" and "not-fact". I do not ask these questions in the spirit of contention but rather as the basis for a discussion on the appropriate weight to be assigned to the conversational use of the words "true" and "untrue". Thanks for your consideration of my questions. Good Evening, yknot. I may be in over my head with my use of the word "untruth". In looking over the TLT website, I have not come across anything yet that I would call a lie. I see TLT as telling another side of the story, a side that one is unlikely to hear if one talks to insiders.
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