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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2015 3:19:18 GMT -5
See this is what I don't understand, you say there is no God, yet you can't prove that. There is no God to you! God is absolutely there. And he shows us the evidence everywhere but you don't see that it's him. There is more proof that God exists than that he doesn't, life itself is proof! He has definitely helped me in my life. But to some people here, it's just me maturing or its me imagining things, or lately, were are suffering some kind of schizophrenia?? So no God isn't my imaginary friend, which is another insulting comment, God is there, and he's proved it to me. Besides the evidence of him in everything that is around us. He proves it to the individual hearts of those that love him. And have faith. I read here one day about the burning bush, and someone saying something like "as if a bush could burn and not be consumed" open your eyes. God does something like this every day, on a much bigger scale. With the sun. It always burns and is never consumed. There has to be a greater mind behind that, and to me that is God! I've noticed in many of your posts you say about people suffering, and yes they do. But we all suffer in this world. God has made this earth beautiful. We destroy it. Our flesh is wicked and this is what we have to fight. It's the means in which Satan tempts us, he tempts, and God comes straight in through our conscience, and we are all blessed with a conscience. It's a shame that more people don't listen to it! If all the countries pulled together then the world would be a better place. But no! From separated countries fighting each other, to separated towns arguing and fighting, to separated streets, to separated families. Satan causes separation. God brings love and togetherness and life! Love thy neighbour, even love your enemies! Do Good to those that hate you, bless those that curse you and pray for those who despitefully use you! Love overcomes everything. What a world this would be, if we all listened to Jesus and obeyed his teachings and loved firstly God, then extending that love to all around us. Can you imagine this world if we were like this. But, Satan is here within our flesh, tempting us causing separation and havoc (if we let him). And its him we must try to deny. And Jesus came and lived it and showed us the way. We don't know why were here yet, I believe there's a reason, and were being tested. And we will find out one day why! Maryhig, I see no proof there is a God at least not one that intervenes or cares one way or the other. You say I can't prove there isn't a God. Lets put it this way, his record of making his goodness evident is lacking. If you think there is a God, well that's on you. You seem upset that I don't believe in a God and that I know there isn't one. I am supposed to accept from you that you know there is a God and I'm just not seeing him, but you don't accept from me when I say I know there isn't a God because there is no evidence? From your comment about the sun not being consumed as evidence, you need to understand that it is a star and it will burn out and is in the process of doing so as we speak. Won't happen for a very long time. 5 billion years is the estimate of when it will run out of hydrogen. Apparently it has used up about half of it's hydrogen fuel. solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sun&Display=OverviewLongwww.space.com/14732-sun-burns-star-death.htmlNow as far as suffering goes. I see no reason why innocents should suffer if there is an all powerful all loving God to protect them. What I see is reality, innocents do suffer and no one intervenes other than humans. Every time I hear someone say God is good I look and I see someone has helped someone else and God gets the credit. Every time. When someone is saved in surgery, people say God saved him, when it wasn't God it was the skill of the surgeon. Someone survives a fiery crash, God is good, but what about that person that risked life and limb to pull him out? There is not one iota of evidence there is a caring loving God that will intervene on our behalf. That is what I see based on observation. That is my reality. Yet you get on my case because I don't interpret the world in the same way as you? Don't see it like you do? Assign meaning to things that have no meaning in my world? I accept that you believe there is a God and that you think he is the reason you do good things etc. Fine. Good. That is your reality. I have a different reality that is based on things that can be observed and proven and are reproducible by others. I trust a process that can prove something exists and if it doesn't it can be done away with. We see the world very differently. I would be more than willing to accept proof of God if there was any. So far there is none from my pov. Things that people think are miracles have been proven by science to have an explanation. The more you learn the more you understand that yes, this world is indeed beautiful and awesome, and yes humans do a very poor job at the moment keeping it in good shape, but there is no evidence this beauty or awesomeness is attributable to a wrathful, jealous yet all loving being. We don't know how the universe came into being but we are learning more about that all the time. Not knowing is just fine with me. In fact, not knowing all the answers is much more awesome than just saying God did it. So if you don't accept that I cannot see any proof of God I can't do anything about that. My son survived, not because of prayer, but because there was a skilled medical personnel using technology that the human brain was intelligent enough to invent. I put my trust in science because I have seen evidence that it works. I have not seen evidence that prayer works. It does make people feel loved though and that is a good thing. But if my car breaks down I'm not going to pray, I'm going to take it to a mechanic. That's just who I am and what I believe works. Snow I'm not upset that you don't believe like I do, it's not like that, but I do feel for you. I've already written in here one of my experiences. On the cooneyites thread. You tell me, how that happened? How I heard schizophrenic voices, or my imaginary friend, fairy, goblin, did it? You explain logically how that happened. I promise you, that I never had that conversation with anyone since I spoke to my son that afternoon. And my son didn't say a word. So go on, explain my experience logically? Now, here's why I think about you like I do, as I have told you, I know God is there. I have read with sadness about your pain and suffering, I too am sick and suffer pain. I also have problems with my neck and when I wake up I have numbness at the top of my legs (not my arms though). I suffer terrible pain due to severe inflammation. But, I love life! I don't want it all to end. Like you say you do, you have said you've had enough pain and you want peace. I want to spend my time I have left on they earth bringing the love of God to others. Showing him to those around me that he's there. I bear the pain because he gives me strength to do so. You could say why should I suffer. But I say why shouldn't I, everyone suffers in this life. This is something I have to bear. And the spirit of Christ is giving me the strength to bear it and Gods holy spirit shows me daily that God is still with me, and that gives me strength to carry on. Where I differ from you, is that I know I'm being tested. And I know there is a reason. And I know that Satan is hammering my flesh, but he can't touch my life, because God is with me, and Christ is strengthening me. And whilst my heart is with God, Satan can't touch my life. He can only bruise my heal! And hurt me in my flesh! So I am strong, and I am blessed by God with a family all around me, that love me. And I thank him everyday of my life for blessing me. He has changed me heart. But no one can understand me unless they experience what I have. Until they have died the death, and lived a life where your heart completely belongs to God! You won't understand until you have tasted death! And you won't do that, until you see Christ coming in his kingdom! And you won't see Christ, if you can't hear him in others!
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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2015 3:42:05 GMT -5
I've been on her a while now, and ok, some people don't believe, but I personally know God is there. And what I worry about is the absolute disrespect people have for him. With their disgusting jokes and insulting posts. I wonder what will you think, all of you that don't believe. When you walk out of your body and he's there. What if God is there? Have you been reading the wonderful 'notes' atheists get from theists? I am not sure it is disrespect from your god but of the god in the OT. You have already stated that your god would never do what the god of the OT is said to have done. You do have the upper hand in the life after death possibilities. If there is a god I will expect explanations and a good discussion and then see where things go from there. If I am right you will simply cease to be. However, so far the evidence you have presented for the possibility of the existence of a paranormal being is, I must say, underwhelming. You must believe what is right for you. But makng jokes about Jesus hanging on a cross is sick and twisted. That was a gruesome and painful death. But when they haven't got a conscience about it then people will do things like that won't they! You say the evidence I have presented is so far underwhelming, and yet, you have also stated that you find what I say interesting? And you do like to hear what I say? So that's good but I'm afraid my evidence was given from God to me, I can only give my experiences. Which is really just like putting up a red rag to a bull on here isn't it? Which is a shame because I would love to talk more about what had happened to me in God. But there's no point. Because I can't prove to you that he is there, only God can do that. He has to show you that he's there himself!
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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2015 3:58:46 GMT -5
Well, @matt10, I was responding to you and you made the statement that life shows that god exists. Since you used the term God I assumed you knew how you defined that term. I really don't care how you define your god I was interested in how life could show that any entity that one would claim to be god, or in your case God, exists. If you feel it is necessary to define your concept of god prior to giving the explanation, even better. I didn't ask the question of maryhig because I am not sure she can define her god. It does not seem to be the god of the bible yet it is the one that she Jesus believes is leading people to, which all evidence says is the god of the bible. I think it is a case of cognitive dissonance necessitating the redefinition of terms. Rational, one should never assume anything when it comes to gods. I assumed that maryhig believed in the Christian God but now she appears to be saying that she believes in a God for all which if I have understood it correctly had both a resurrected son named Jesus and a prophet named Mohammad. You can see why clarity is important when it comes to gods. By the way pay no attention to my use of the upper and lower case g in the word God. My spell checker seems insistent on making the g in god a G to the point where I have given up on issues around consistency. I think this may be a theist plot by the software designers which I am thinking of writing to them about. Next to your use of the term 'entity'. I'm afraid I may have to request that you define that as well. I looked up entity and there are at least two very different definitions and I'm not at all sure which one you are intending to use here. I fear that in your enthusiasm to jump on anything that might challenge your lifelong belief that none of the umpteenillion gods that people claim to believe exist actually exist, that you may have become careless in your terminology. I do understand that having ones lifelong beliefs about gods challenged can be quite traumatic although it wasn't personally for me. I was just relieved. Finding out that you aren't going to hell after all is such a good thing. Finally as to maryhigs God, I believe she believes in a theoretical God. Theoretical gods are great. Theoretical gods can be anything you want. All seeing, all knowing, all powerful, loving, caring, justice serving just add to the list whatever attributes you like. I always found the god of the bible a particularly nasty piece of work. Maryhig seems to me to have taken the best bits of the biblical God and got rid of the awful stuff. In short she has made her God up. And why not? Most of the best gods throughout history have been made up. Matt10 Why are you bringing me into it? rational is asking about what you believe. I'll answer for myself thanks, without your analysis of my "theoretical God" you don't know what your talking about! I believe in the God that Jesus Christ believes in, go and read the gospels. And you will see love, care and compassion. Jesus came in the image of God almighty. So if you want to see the God I believe in go read about him through Jesus. And rational seems to feel I believe in the God of the bible. Quote, rationalI didn't ask the question of maryhig because I am not sure she can define her god. It does not seem to be the god of the bible yet it is the one that she Jesus believes is leading people to, which all evidence says is the god of the bible. Well you said it yourself, yes I believe the God of the bible, the one that Jesus leads Gods people to. The one that Jesus showed completely through his life. He came and brought the truth, through love, compassion, care, mercy and healing. He brought the fullness of the almighty God in his life. Because he gave his flesh up and laid down his life and lived out his life for God! And you can see the God that I love in Jesus, and in all Gods people. Because they will be laying down their lives. Loving God with all their hearts, and their neighbour as themselves. This is showing the true spirit of the almighty God!
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Aug 29, 2015 4:04:04 GMT -5
Matt 10, you talk about Gods and they do exist, different Gods, gods of money, gods of selfishness gods of meanness gods of I don't care about anyone else, gods of whats in it for me and there is many more. Maryhigs God is the Almighty God that you see in the bible that tells you to love one another and care for one another and that is harder to do than any of the previous gods I spoke of. Take the human body if we abuse it eating, drinking filling our lungs with toxins then something is sure to go wrong and we are going to need medical help, just as the earth we live on we fill it with greed building more building chopping down more trees filling the air with toxins putting more waste in the ground in the end the earth is just like the body it will need medical help. Now God is given that help everyday sending the rain to clear it out given oxygen through the trees but we still don't take heed to what we are doing so disease spread through the lands and illnesses happen and we blame God and say how could he do this or there can't be a God cause he wouldn't let this happen. These things have to happen for us to see what we are doing to ourselves and the earth. But if we change our selfish ways and try and do something for ourselves and to others then this can change and the world will change This is why God sent his son Jesus Christ to show us how to do this and if you follow the gospel then there is always that hope.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2015 4:48:14 GMT -5
You should try Uri Geller. If thats what you are looking for. He can bend spoons. To see Uri Geller exposed by James Randi Go to Uri Geller - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.comskepdic.com/geller.html
Geller was just a clever magician.
I read about Uri Geller years ago. I was being a smart mouth.
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Post by rational on Aug 29, 2015 8:17:03 GMT -5
Rational, my belief in the God of the bible is based firstly upon reading of that bible, secondly upon seeing its effect upon those who loved it, thirdly upon feeling the power of the Gospel for myself.
That's science, you know. The science of the personal as opposed to the science of the repeatable. I suggest that when it becomes repeatable and verifiable we call it science but until then it is a nice anecdotal story.
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Post by rational on Aug 29, 2015 8:29:38 GMT -5
But what I mean about proof is this, I have had proof to me God exists. I think the issue is that the level of proof that you accept is not the generally the level of proof that others are speaking about. maryhig, since there has never been any proof that god does exist there is nothing to disprove.Your experiences, while important to you in the support of your belief that god exists, do not constitute proof any more than you would believe in some being I tried to convince you created the universe.That provides a convenient explanation for the theists as to why atheists do not believe in god - you have to believe in god before the proof that god exists is delivered! Your belief in your particularod is based on faith and there is no material or logical support that you can present. This is not a bad thing. It is the difference between a faith based belief and fact.
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Post by rational on Aug 29, 2015 8:40:12 GMT -5
And rational seems to feel I believe in the God of the bible. Quote, rationalI didn't ask the question of maryhig because I am not sure she can define her god. It does not seem to be the god of the bible yet it is the one that she Jesus believes is leading people to, which all evidence says is the god of the bible. Well you said it yourself, yes I believe the God of the bible, the one that Jesus leads Gods people to. The one that Jesus showed completely through his life. He came and brought the truth, through love, compassion, care, mercy and healing. He brought the fullness of the almighty God in his life. Because he gave his flesh up and laid down his life and lived out his life for God! And you can see the God that I love in Jesus, and in all Gods people. Because they will be laying down their lives. Loving God with all their hearts, and their neighbour as themselves. This is showing the true spirit of the almighty God! Actually, you have rejected the god of the bible, especially the OT, a number of times. The bible said god commanded his people kill every living thing and you rejected that god. You rejected the god that commanded a father to kill his son and the god that killed a couple's infant because of the sins of the parents. And that isn't mentioning the destruction of several cities and all of the people living there as well as 99% of the population with a flood. And then there is the hanging on the cross and the blood sacrifice that you also rejected. And the dying for the sins of mankind. Some of these beliefs, including the fact that the majority of people will end up in eternal damnation, are fundamental to the god described in the bible. That is why I made the comment about your description of your god being unclear. And yes, I know, you apply different meanings to the parts that are not to your liking but that in itself is a rejection of what is written.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2015 9:11:08 GMT -5
And rational seems to feel I believe in the God of the bible. Quote, rationalI didn't ask the question of maryhig because I am not sure she can define her god. It does not seem to be the god of the bible yet it is the one that she Jesus believes is leading people to, which all evidence says is the god of the bible. Well you said it yourself, yes I believe the God of the bible, the one that Jesus leads Gods people to. The one that Jesus showed completely through his life. He came and brought the truth, through love, compassion, care, mercy and healing. He brought the fullness of the almighty God in his life. Because he gave his flesh up and laid down his life and lived out his life for God! And you can see the God that I love in Jesus, and in all Gods people. Because they will be laying down their lives. Loving God with all their hearts, and their neighbour as themselves. This is showing the true spirit of the almighty God! Actually, you have rejected the god of the bible, especially the OT, a number of times. The bible said god commanded his people kill every living thing and you rejected that god. You rejected the god that commanded a father to kill his son and the god that killed a couple's infant because of the sins of the parents. And that isn't mentioning the destruction of several cities and all of the people living there as well as 99% of the population with a flood. And then there is the hanging on the cross and the blood sacrifice that you also rejected. And the dying for the sins of mankind. Some of these beliefs, including the fact that the majority of people will end up in eternal damnation, are fundamental to the god described in the bible. That is why I made the comment about your description of your god being unclear. And yes, I know, you apply different meanings to the parts that are not to your liking but that in itself is a rejection of what is written. The whole reason I believe the way I do, is because God doesn't lie. So when he gives his people the commandment of, thou shalt not kill, i believe that he means just that. But, there no point in going over all my beliefs again is there, I've said enough. So we'll find out what's right one day. When we meet our maker! Oh and Abraham didn't kill Isaac, and David's baby died, but that's at the hand of God so it's not murder. That child was innocent and i believe, will have gone to heaven. But I can't see why people keep bringing this up, especially those who agree with abortion! Which is taking a life that you say God shouldn't do? Do the majority of people end up in eternal damnation? How do you know that? Thou shalt not kill means just that, no life should be taken at the hand of any man or woman. Only God can take life.
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Post by rational on Aug 29, 2015 9:29:07 GMT -5
The whole reason I believe the way I do, is because God doesn't lie. So when he gives his people the commandment of, thou shalt not kill, i believe that he means just that. Yet you seem unwilling to explore the various words that have be translated as 'kill' in the version of the bible you use. Wait - it is ok for god to kill an innocent baby to punish its parents? God can kill infants and it is OK? Is this a moral lesson that everyone says comes from the bible? Actually, I don't believe any of it but I was quoting the bible. If only a few find the right way it means the majority do not find it are are doomed. All life? Dogs and cats? Cows? Insects? The billions of bacteria that died when you used bleach for cleaning? I mean, life is life. Or do you mean only homicide?
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Post by xna on Aug 29, 2015 9:44:26 GMT -5
The whole reason I believe the way I do, is because God doesn't lie. Genessis 2:17 " but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." They ate and did not die. The Christian retort often is; it's a metaphor, or a spiritual death, god didn't mean it as a literal death.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2015 9:53:56 GMT -5
Yet you seem unwilling to explore the various words that have be translated as 'kill' in the version of the bible you use. Wait - it is ok for god to kill an innocent baby to punish its parents? God can kill infants and it is OK? Is this a moral lesson that everyone says comes from the bible? Actually, I don't believe any of it but I was quoting the bible. If only a few find the right way it means the majority do not find it are are doomed. All life? Dogs and cats? Cows? Insects? The billions of bacteria that died when you used bleach for cleaning? I mean, life is life. Or do you mean only homicide? Kill, murder, doesn't matter what it's called, no human should take any life of another human for any reason. Thou shalt not kill means just that. But God takes life because he gave it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 9:53:42 GMT -5
Rational, one should never assume anything when it comes to gods. I assumed that maryhig believed in the Christian God but now she appears to be saying that she believes in a God for all which if I have understood it correctly had both a resurrected son named Jesus and a prophet named Mohammad. You can see why clarity is important when it comes to gods. By the way pay no attention to my use of the upper and lower case g in the word God. My spell checker seems insistent on making the g in god a G to the point where I have given up on issues around consistency. I think this may be a theist plot by the software designers which I am thinking of writing to them about. Next to your use of the term 'entity'. I'm afraid I may have to request that you define that as well. I looked up entity and there are at least two very different definitions and I'm not at all sure which one you are intending to use here. I fear that in your enthusiasm to jump on anything that might challenge your lifelong belief that none of the umpteenillion gods that people claim to believe exist actually exist, that you may have become careless in your terminology. I do understand that having ones lifelong beliefs about gods challenged can be quite traumatic although it wasn't personally for me. I was just relieved. Finding out that you aren't going to hell after all is such a good thing. Finally as to maryhigs God, I believe she believes in a theoretical God. Theoretical gods are great. Theoretical gods can be anything you want. All seeing, all knowing, all powerful, loving, caring, justice serving just add to the list whatever attributes you like. I always found the god of the bible a particularly nasty piece of work. Maryhig seems to me to have taken the best bits of the biblical God and got rid of the awful stuff. In short she has made her God up. And why not? Most of the best gods throughout history have been made up. Matt10 Why are you bringing me into it? rational is asking about what you believe. I'll answer for myself thanks, without your analysis of my "theoretical God" you don't know what your talking about! I believe in the God that Jesus Christ believes in, go and read the gospels. And you will see love, care and compassion. Jesus came in the image of God almighty. So if you want to see the God I believe in go read about him through Jesus. And rational seems to feel I believe in the God of the bible. Quote, rationalI didn't ask the question of maryhig because I am not sure she can define her god. It does not seem to be the god of the bible yet it is the one that she Jesus believes is leading people to, which all evidence says is the god of the bible. Well you said it yourself, yes I believe the God of the bible, the one that Jesus leads Gods people to. The one that Jesus showed completely through his life. He came and brought the truth, through love, compassion, care, mercy and healing. He brought the fullness of the almighty God in his life. Because he gave his flesh up and laid down his life and lived out his life for God! And you can see the God that I love in Jesus, and in all Gods people. Because they will be laying down their lives. Loving God with all their hearts, and their neighbour as themselves. This is showing the true spirit of the almighty God! Oh dear maryhig, I fear I may have upset you. However I do have to point out that I didn't bring you into it. I believe it was Rational who brought you into it and I was merely being courteous by responding to his point about your beliefs. The key thing about a public forum is that it is public and therefore what you post is made public and the public therefore has an opportunity to comment on it. If one doesn't wish to have their beliefs commented upon then I think one should think very carefully about posting their beliefs on a public forum. That said, I was going to disagree with your claim that rational seems to feel that you believe in the God of the bible on the basis that he seemed to be saying something rather different. However I note that he has since taken the opportunity to make his position perfectly clear and it seems to me that he doesn't seem to feel that you believe in the God of the bible; in fact he appears to me to be rather confused as to which God it is that you believe in. I hope therefore you will understand why I felt the need to try to explain to him the nature of the God which you claim to believe in. Of course it is much better if you answer for yourself and explain to him what it is you believe in but I do feel the need to point out that you frequently post your beliefs here and if there is still confusion around what it is you believe in, then I would suggest that perhaps you have to think more carefully about how you describe your God. You certainly don't want other people to have to rely on me to try to make sense of any confusion. Matt0
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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2015 10:04:05 GMT -5
Why are you bringing me into it? rational is asking about what you believe. I'll answer for myself thanks, without your analysis of my "theoretical God" you don't know what your talking about! I believe in the God that Jesus Christ believes in, go and read the gospels. And you will see love, care and compassion. Jesus came in the image of God almighty. So if you want to see the God I believe in go read about him through Jesus. And rational seems to feel I believe in the God of the bible. Quote, rationalI didn't ask the question of maryhig because I am not sure she can define her god. It does not seem to be the god of the bible yet it is the one that she Jesus believes is leading people to, which all evidence says is the god of the bible. Well you said it yourself, yes I believe the God of the bible, the one that Jesus leads Gods people to. The one that Jesus showed completely through his life. He came and brought the truth, through love, compassion, care, mercy and healing. He brought the fullness of the almighty God in his life. Because he gave his flesh up and laid down his life and lived out his life for God! And you can see the God that I love in Jesus, and in all Gods people. Because they will be laying down their lives. Loving God with all their hearts, and their neighbour as themselves. This is showing the true spirit of the almighty God! Oh dear maryhig, I fear I may have upset you. However I do have to point out that I didn't bring you into it. I believe it was Rational who brought you into it and I was merely being courteous by responding to his point about your beliefs. The key thing about a public forum is that it is public and therefore what you post is made public and the public therefore has an opportunity to comment on it. If one doesn't wish to have their beliefs commented upon then I think one should think very carefully about posting their beliefs on a public forum. That said, I was going to disagree with your claim that rational seems to feel that you believe in the God of the bible on the basis that he seemed to be saying something rather different. However I note that he has since taken the opportunity to make his position perfectly clear and it seems to me that he doesn't seem to feel that you believe in the God of the bible; in fact he appears to me to be rather confused as to which God it is that you believe in. I hope therefore you will understand why I felt the need to try to explain to him the nature of the God which you claim to believe in. Of course it is much better if you answer for yourself and explain to him what it is you believe in but I do feel the need to point out that you frequently post your beliefs here and if there is still confusion around what it is you believe in, then I would suggest that perhaps you have to think more carefully about how you describe your God. You certainly don't want other people to have to rely on me to try to make sense of any confusion. Matt0 I think, as you said I've posted my beliefs enough. And no, you haven't upset me. And yes I fully understand that I will get questioned on a public forum. But if you go back and read the post again, rational was asking you about your beliefs in God. Not me, I've answered what he asked me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 10:07:46 GMT -5
First thank you for providing your example. It takes courage to post personal experiences and I hope my response will be deemed respectful of that. I should point out that I am not a medical practitioner nor have I any knowledge of the subject (so there is a strong likelihood I may end up looking rather foolish here if I am not careful) but I recognise immediately the potential for an alternative explanation. I note that you haven't specifically said what it was that you prayed for (other than for the woman - I presume you prayed that her baby would be born healthy) nor whether a specific recognised medical condition had been diagnosed. However I have set out below what I determine to be the facts according to what you have said. Perhaps you can confirm if these are an accurate interpretation of the situation which you describe so that we are both clear as to the facts. Matt10 1. A woman whom your pastor knew was 24 weeks pregnant and the woman had been advised that a) the baby was smaller that it should have been at 24 weeks; and b) the baby's lungs had not fully developed at 24 weeks. 2. Doctors had advised the woman that they believed that there was a significant chance that the baby would not survive as a result of its small size and/or the fact that the lungs were not fully developed at 24 weeks 3. Your pastor asked you to pray for the woman 4. You prayed to God that the woman would give birth to a healthy child 5. Some weeks later you met the woman and she confirmed that she had given birth to a healthy child at full term with fully developed lungs and that the child had put on weight since the birth. 6. Doctors had confirmed that (a) there was a strong possibility that the baby would not survive without some form of intervention and/or (b) the lungs were unlikely to fully develop without some form of intervention. 7. You had it confirmed that no medical intervention was provided that could explain (a) the healthy birth of the child and/or (b) the full development of the lungs by the time the woman reached full term 8. You believe that as a result of your prayer God specifically intervened to cause the baby to be born healthy and to cause the full development of the lungs and that you believe that no other alternative explanation is plausible Matt10 I have the utmost respect for you and have always liked you. Yes you got the post correct. Except for 4. I have decided I wont enlarge on how I prayed. All I will say is when I pray I try to be very specific and thorough. Not forgettjng the mother was very emotional weeping because she had been told her baby might not improve Even die. Her gladness and joy were not towards me but towards the Lord. She gave him all the glory. I felt blessed because he showed how much he cared. Matt10 I've had years off this kind of evidence. Everytime I post his goodness my comments are dissected judged and reasoned only to then be labeled. The power of god defused and disbelieved. Thank you for your kind comments. I'm reassured that I seem to have got most of the 8 points correct. It is unfortunate however that you won't divulge what it is you prayed for but I do respect that. However I'm sure you will understand the difficulty I would have in providing a plausible alternative explanation for [what you believe is] your prayer being answered when you won't divulge what it is that you prayed for. Matt10
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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2015 10:12:31 GMT -5
The whole reason I believe the way I do, is because God doesn't lie. Genessis 2:17 " but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." They ate and did not die. The Christian retort often is; it's a metaphor, or a spiritual death, god didn't mean it as a literal death. They did die, they were dead to God. And the spirit was taken from them. Before they were alive in the spirit walking with God. Then they were cast out because they betrayed him! Just as we lose him and are dead in the spirit once we turn our back on God. So the Christian belief is right! God is spirit, he speaks in spirit and those who have ears to hear, hear! They hear what the spirit says. Romans 8 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 10:15:03 GMT -5
Oh dear maryhig, I fear I may have upset you. However I do have to point out that I didn't bring you into it. I believe it was Rational who brought you into it and I was merely being courteous by responding to his point about your beliefs. The key thing about a public forum is that it is public and therefore what you post is made public and the public therefore has an opportunity to comment on it. If one doesn't wish to have their beliefs commented upon then I think one should think very carefully about posting their beliefs on a public forum. That said, I was going to disagree with your claim that rational seems to feel that you believe in the God of the bible on the basis that he seemed to be saying something rather different. However I note that he has since taken the opportunity to make his position perfectly clear and it seems to me that he doesn't seem to feel that you believe in the God of the bible; in fact he appears to me to be rather confused as to which God it is that you believe in. I hope therefore you will understand why I felt the need to try to explain to him the nature of the God which you claim to believe in. Of course it is much better if you answer for yourself and explain to him what it is you believe in but I do feel the need to point out that you frequently post your beliefs here and if there is still confusion around what it is you believe in, then I would suggest that perhaps you have to think more carefully about how you describe your God. You certainly don't want other people to have to rely on me to try to make sense of any confusion. Matt0 I think, as you said I've posted my beliefs enough. And no, you haven't upset me. And yes I fully understand that I will get questioned on a public forum. But if you go back and read the post again, rational was asking you about your beliefs in God. Not me, I've answered what he asked me. I'm glad that I haven't upset you. That certainly wasn't my intention. And I am aware that rational is questioning my beliefs and I fully intend to respond to him. One has to consider very carefully how one responds to rational. Rational carries around with him a very large foolometer and he will not hesitate to use it if he feels it is warranted. Matt10
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Post by snow on Aug 29, 2015 10:35:05 GMT -5
Maryhig, I see no proof there is a God at least not one that intervenes or cares one way or the other. You say I can't prove there isn't a God. Lets put it this way, his record of making his goodness evident is lacking. If you think there is a God, well that's on you. You seem upset that I don't believe in a God and that I know there isn't one. I am supposed to accept from you that you know there is a God and I'm just not seeing him, but you don't accept from me when I say I know there isn't a God because there is no evidence? From your comment about the sun not being consumed as evidence, you need to understand that it is a star and it will burn out and is in the process of doing so as we speak. Won't happen for a very long time. 5 billion years is the estimate of when it will run out of hydrogen. Apparently it has used up about half of it's hydrogen fuel. solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sun&Display=OverviewLongwww.space.com/14732-sun-burns-star-death.htmlNow as far as suffering goes. I see no reason why innocents should suffer if there is an all powerful all loving God to protect them. What I see is reality, innocents do suffer and no one intervenes other than humans. Every time I hear someone say God is good I look and I see someone has helped someone else and God gets the credit. Every time. When someone is saved in surgery, people say God saved him, when it wasn't God it was the skill of the surgeon. Someone survives a fiery crash, God is good, but what about that person that risked life and limb to pull him out? There is not one iota of evidence there is a caring loving God that will intervene on our behalf. That is what I see based on observation. That is my reality. Yet you get on my case because I don't interpret the world in the same way as you? Don't see it like you do? Assign meaning to things that have no meaning in my world? I accept that you believe there is a God and that you think he is the reason you do good things etc. Fine. Good. That is your reality. I have a different reality that is based on things that can be observed and proven and are reproducible by others. I trust a process that can prove something exists and if it doesn't it can be done away with. We see the world very differently. I would be more than willing to accept proof of God if there was any. So far there is none from my pov. Things that people think are miracles have been proven by science to have an explanation. The more you learn the more you understand that yes, this world is indeed beautiful and awesome, and yes humans do a very poor job at the moment keeping it in good shape, but there is no evidence this beauty or awesomeness is attributable to a wrathful, jealous yet all loving being. We don't know how the universe came into being but we are learning more about that all the time. Not knowing is just fine with me. In fact, not knowing all the answers is much more awesome than just saying God did it. So if you don't accept that I cannot see any proof of God I can't do anything about that. My son survived, not because of prayer, but because there was a skilled medical personnel using technology that the human brain was intelligent enough to invent. I put my trust in science because I have seen evidence that it works. I have not seen evidence that prayer works. It does make people feel loved though and that is a good thing. But if my car breaks down I'm not going to pray, I'm going to take it to a mechanic. That's just who I am and what I believe works. Snow I'm not upset that you don't believe like I do, it's not like that, but I do feel for you. I've already written in here one of my experiences. On the cooneyites thread. You tell me, how that happened? How I heard schizophrenic voices, or my imaginary friend, fairy, goblin, did it? You explain logically how that happened. I promise you, that I never had that conversation with anyone since I spoke to my son that afternoon. And my son didn't say a word. So go on, explain my experience logically? Now, here's why I think about you like I do, as I have told you, I know God is there. I have read with sadness about your pain and suffering, I too am sick and suffer pain. I also have problems with my neck and when I wake up I have numbness at the top of my legs (not my arms though). I suffer terrible pain due to severe inflammation. But, I love life! I don't want it all to end. Like you say you do, you have said you've had enough pain and you want peace. I want to spend my time I have left on they earth bringing the love of God to others. Showing him to those around me that he's there. I bear the pain because he gives me strength to do so. You could say why should I suffer. But I say why shouldn't I, everyone suffers in this life. This is something I have to bear. And the spirit of Christ is giving me the strength to bear it and Gods holy spirit shows me daily that God is still with me, and that gives me strength to carry on. Where I differ from you, is that I know I'm being tested. And I know there is a reason. And I know that Satan is hammering my flesh, but he can't touch my life, because God is with me, and Christ is strengthening me. And whilst my heart is with God, Satan can't touch my life. He can only bruise my heal! And hurt me in my flesh! So I am strong, and I am blessed by God with a family all around me, that love me. And I thank him everyday of my life for blessing me. He has changed me heart. But no one can understand me unless they experience what I have. Until they have died the death, and lived a life where your heart completely belongs to God! You won't understand until you have tasted death! And you won't do that, until you see Christ coming in his kingdom! And you won't see Christ, if you can't hear him in others! I want to live. I have grandkids that I would love to see grow up. You are assuming that my pain levels are the same as yours I guess. Maybe they are maybe they are less maybe they are more. It really doesn't matter. I don't believe anyone is testing me or punishing me or whatever else you think is happening to you. We believe differently. I actually can tell you exactly what is happening in my body neurologically that is causing the pain. Basically you have just told me that because you believe in God you are better than me. You have no idea of what I live with and have lived with 24/7 since 1999. If I am getting worn down and tired because of increasing pain levels over the years, that's just the way it is. I actually cope very well most of the time. When I can't walk or pick something up because my hands can't feel it, or there is a nerve zapping the muscle in my leg and making it limp, that is much tougher to handle, but mostly I handle it pretty good. It scares me sometimes because I always wonder if this is the time I won't get feeling back or be able to walk again. Anyone who knows me knows I am incredibly strong. I fight to have as normal a life as I can. It would bring me no comfort at all to believe in a supernatural being I just have no evidence for. You don't understand why people don't just believe in God. I did once, it's not possible to go back to belief once it is gone. I don't know how to say it any plainer than that. I have explained how it happened, not a choice, and how once it happens there is no return to belief in it. That's how it is.
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Post by snow on Aug 29, 2015 10:51:24 GMT -5
Actually, you have rejected the god of the bible, especially the OT, a number of times. The bible said god commanded his people kill every living thing and you rejected that god. You rejected the god that commanded a father to kill his son and the god that killed a couple's infant because of the sins of the parents. And that isn't mentioning the destruction of several cities and all of the people living there as well as 99% of the population with a flood. And then there is the hanging on the cross and the blood sacrifice that you also rejected. And the dying for the sins of mankind. Some of these beliefs, including the fact that the majority of people will end up in eternal damnation, are fundamental to the god described in the bible. That is why I made the comment about your description of your god being unclear. And yes, I know, you apply different meanings to the parts that are not to your liking but that in itself is a rejection of what is written. The whole reason I believe the way I do, is because God doesn't lie. So when he gives his people the commandment of, thou shalt not kill, i believe that he means just that. But, there no point in going over all my beliefs again is there, I've said enough. So we'll find out what's right one day. When we meet our maker! Oh and Abraham didn't kill Isaac, and David's baby died, but that's at the hand of God so it's not murder. That child was innocent and i believe, will have gone to heaven. But I can't see why people keep bringing this up, especially those who agree with abortion! Which is taking a life that you say God shouldn't do? Do the majority of people end up in eternal damnation? How do you know that? Thou shalt not kill means just that, no life should be taken at the hand of any man or woman. Only God can take life. Where does it say God doesn't lie? He is God and he can do whatever he wants. He can murder just about all of his creation in a flood because 'he gives life he can take it away' and then he promises us he won't drown us anymore and it still happens all the time. So I'm not sure it is accurate to say God doesn't lie. He can do whatever he wants. How would humans know if he lied or not anyway?
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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2015 11:19:25 GMT -5
Snow I'm not upset that you don't believe like I do, it's not like that, but I do feel for you. I've already written in here one of my experiences. On the cooneyites thread. You tell me, how that happened? How I heard schizophrenic voices, or my imaginary friend, fairy, goblin, did it? You explain logically how that happened. I promise you, that I never had that conversation with anyone since I spoke to my son that afternoon. And my son didn't say a word. So go on, explain my experience logically? Now, here's why I think about you like I do, as I have told you, I know God is there. I have read with sadness about your pain and suffering, I too am sick and suffer pain. I also have problems with my neck and when I wake up I have numbness at the top of my legs (not my arms though). I suffer terrible pain due to severe inflammation. But, I love life! I don't want it all to end. Like you say you do, you have said you've had enough pain and you want peace. I want to spend my time I have left on they earth bringing the love of God to others. Showing him to those around me that he's there. I bear the pain because he gives me strength to do so. You could say why should I suffer. But I say why shouldn't I, everyone suffers in this life. This is something I have to bear. And the spirit of Christ is giving me the strength to bear it and Gods holy spirit shows me daily that God is still with me, and that gives me strength to carry on. Where I differ from you, is that I know I'm being tested. And I know there is a reason. And I know that Satan is hammering my flesh, but he can't touch my life, because God is with me, and Christ is strengthening me. And whilst my heart is with God, Satan can't touch my life. He can only bruise my heal! And hurt me in my flesh! So I am strong, and I am blessed by God with a family all around me, that love me. And I thank him everyday of my life for blessing me. He has changed me heart. But no one can understand me unless they experience what I have. Until they have died the death, and lived a life where your heart completely belongs to God! You won't understand until you have tasted death! And you won't do that, until you see Christ coming in his kingdom! And you won't see Christ, if you can't hear him in others! I want to live. I have grandkids that I would love to see grow up. You are assuming that my pain levels are the same as yours I guess. Maybe they are maybe they are less maybe they are more. It really doesn't matter. I don't believe anyone is testing me or punishing me or whatever else you think is happening to you. We believe differently. I actually can tell you exactly what is happening in my body neurologically that is causing the pain. Basically you have just told me that because you believe in God you are better than me. You have no idea of what I live with and have lived with 24/7 since 1999. If I am getting worn down and tired because of increasing pain levels over the years, that's just the way it is. I actually cope very well most of the time. When I can't walk or pick something up because my hands can't feel it, or there is a nerve zapping the muscle in my leg and making it limp, that is much tougher to handle, but mostly I handle it pretty good. It scares me sometimes because I always wonder if this is the time I won't get feeling back or be able to walk again. Anyone who knows me knows I am incredibly strong. I fight to have as normal a life as I can. It would bring me no comfort at all to believe in a supernatural being I just have no evidence for. You don't understand why people don't just believe in God. I did once, it's not possible to go back to belief once it is gone. I don't know how to say it any plainer than that. I have explained how it happened, not a choice, and how once it happens there is no return to belief in it. That's how it is. Where have I said that I am better that you? I'm definitely not at all! I don't feel better than anyone. In fact I'm probably a lot worse than most! As I said I feel for your pain. I am trying to say that I too suffer, sometimes incredible pain. I know you don't understand me, and I can't explain how God helps me, but he does. He strengthens me to get through each day. But that's me, I understand that you don't believe. But because of our different beliefs we can never truly understand each other! I hope you get what I mean, I'm not trying to be funny with you honestly it must sound worse in writing than what I mean I find it very hard some days too, others I'm a bit better. But, i have a life long sickness, that won't get better. And the medications knock me for six. That's great about your grandkids my grandkids lift my heart when I get down I only said that because you've said the that you will be glad of the peace and the pain to be gone too, I'm glad you love your life.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2015 11:20:05 GMT -5
The whole reason I believe the way I do, is because God doesn't lie. So when he gives his people the commandment of, thou shalt not kill, i believe that he means just that. But, there no point in going over all my beliefs again is there, I've said enough. So we'll find out what's right one day. When we meet our maker! Oh and Abraham didn't kill Isaac, and David's baby died, but that's at the hand of God so it's not murder. That child was innocent and i believe, will have gone to heaven. But I can't see why people keep bringing this up, especially those who agree with abortion! Which is taking a life that you say God shouldn't do? Do the majority of people end up in eternal damnation? How do you know that? Thou shalt not kill means just that, no life should be taken at the hand of any man or woman. Only God can take life. Where does it say God doesn't lie? He is God and he can do whatever he wants. He can murder just about all of his creation in a flood because 'he gives life he can take it away' and then he promises us he won't drown us anymore and it still happens all the time. So I'm not sure it is accurate to say God doesn't lie. He can do whatever he wants. How would humans know if he lied or not anyway? I'll have to get back to you after, I'm on my way out
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Post by snow on Aug 29, 2015 11:30:32 GMT -5
I want to live. I have grandkids that I would love to see grow up. You are assuming that my pain levels are the same as yours I guess. Maybe they are maybe they are less maybe they are more. It really doesn't matter. I don't believe anyone is testing me or punishing me or whatever else you think is happening to you. We believe differently. I actually can tell you exactly what is happening in my body neurologically that is causing the pain. Basically you have just told me that because you believe in God you are better than me. You have no idea of what I live with and have lived with 24/7 since 1999. If I am getting worn down and tired because of increasing pain levels over the years, that's just the way it is. I actually cope very well most of the time. When I can't walk or pick something up because my hands can't feel it, or there is a nerve zapping the muscle in my leg and making it limp, that is much tougher to handle, but mostly I handle it pretty good. It scares me sometimes because I always wonder if this is the time I won't get feeling back or be able to walk again. Anyone who knows me knows I am incredibly strong. I fight to have as normal a life as I can. It would bring me no comfort at all to believe in a supernatural being I just have no evidence for. You don't understand why people don't just believe in God. I did once, it's not possible to go back to belief once it is gone. I don't know how to say it any plainer than that. I have explained how it happened, not a choice, and how once it happens there is no return to belief in it. That's how it is. Where have I said that I am better that you? I'm definitely not at all! I don't feel better than anyone. In fact I'm probably a lot worse than most! As I said I feel for your pain. I am trying to say that I too suffer, sometimes incredible pain. I know you don't understand me, and I can't explain how God helps me, but he does. He strengthens me to get through each day. But that's me, I understand that you don't believe. But because of our different beliefs we can never truly understand each other! I hope you get what I mean, I'm not trying to be funny with you honestly it must sound worse in writing than what I mean I find it very hard some days too, others I'm a bit better. But, i have a life long sickness, that won't get better. And the medications knock me for six. That's great about your grandkids my grandkids lift my heart when I get down I only said that because you've said the that you will be glad of the peace and the pain to be gone too, I'm glad you love your life. I will be glad when I'm out of pain. That will mean I'm dead or the medical world finds a way of dealing with nerve pain issues. Hope it's the latter first! I know you don't mean to come across as better. You say you're strong because of God. How do you know I am not strong? I am incredibly strong. No one deals with constant pain without being strong. You should know that since you struggle with it also. I don't get my strength from God you say you do. I depend on myself to cope. I believe you are strong all by yourself, but you don't believe that so that's good that you feel you have support of a God. That would be meaningless for me. Just the way it is. And, yes I love life, and I believe it's a great life, been a great life, and I don't have regrets. I don't know why you even thought I didn't love life? Maybe because I said I wasn't afraid to die and look forward to dying and being released from pain at some point. But as long as I live I will enjoy life, have lots of great people in my life and have a lot of fun with the grandkids.
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Post by xna on Aug 29, 2015 11:35:03 GMT -5
Genessis 2:17 " but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." They ate and did not die. The Christian retort often is; it's a metaphor, or a spiritual death, god didn't mean it as a literal death. They did die, they were dead to God. And the spirit was taken from them. Before they were alive in the spirit walking with God. Then they were cast out because they betrayed him! Just as we lose him and are dead in the spirit once we turn our back on God. So the Christian belief is right! God is spirit, he speaks in spirit and those who have ears to hear, hear! They hear what the spirit says. Romans 8 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Some preachers here in the USA try this and do die, but the bible says they won't. Seems like a deadly lie? Mark 16:18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2015 15:12:09 GMT -5
Matt10 I have the utmost respect for you and have always liked you. Yes you got the post correct. Except for 4. I have decided I wont enlarge on how I prayed. All I will say is when I pray I try to be very specific and thorough. Not forgettjng the mother was very emotional weeping because she had been told her baby might not improve Even die. Her gladness and joy were not towards me but towards the Lord. She gave him all the glory. I felt blessed because he showed how much he cared. Matt10 I've had years off this kind of evidence. Everytime I post his goodness my comments are dissected judged and reasoned only to then be labeled. The power of god defused and disbelieved. Thank you for your kind comments. I'm reassured that I seem to have got most of the 8 points correct. It is unfortunate however that you won't divulge what it is you prayed for but I do respect that. However I'm sure you will understand the difficulty I would have in providing a plausible alternative explanation for [what you believe is] your prayer being answered when you won't divulge what it is that you prayed for. Matt10 I dont have a problem at all divulging different ways of prayer to people who love the lord. I think it is wiser to leave it there. When I first saw pastors laying hands on people and praying for them I was blown away. I didnt know it was possible. I thought only the early apostles did that because it was whatbwe were told in meetings. That night I got up the courage to go forward and respond to the word of knowledge. Im glad I did because I recieved healing in my back. I hadnt asked for it. The power of god touched me. I hadnt even seen people fall under the power of god ever. Before that. From that day I became excited about Him. Developed a passion for him. From then on I learned more about the process of impartation of anointing. We each have an anointing from the holy one when we recieve the holy spirit. Unbelief is the enemy of faith. So no matter how much it is debated,argued, thrown around with words. If unbelief exists nothing can change. Ratz has said to me for all the yrs of dialoge. Prove it. I can in the sense the pain has gone.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2015 15:17:51 GMT -5
Where does it say God doesn't lie? He is God and he can do whatever he wants. He can murder just about all of his creation in a flood because 'he gives life he can take it away' and then he promises us he won't drown us anymore and it still happens all the time. So I'm not sure it is accurate to say God doesn't lie. He can do whatever he wants. How would humans know if he lied or not anyway? I'll have to get back to you after, I'm on my way out These verses Heb 6: 18 "God did this so that by two unchangable things in which it is impossible for god to lie we who have fled to take hope of the hold set before us may be greatly encouraged." Numb 23:19 "God is not human that he should lie, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill.?" Titus 1: 2 " This truth gave them confidence that they have eternal life which god -who does not lie -promised them before the world began."
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2015 15:26:41 GMT -5
They did die, they were dead to God. And the spirit was taken from them. Before they were alive in the spirit walking with God. Then they were cast out because they betrayed him! Just as we lose him and are dead in the spirit once we turn our back on God. So the Christian belief is right! God is spirit, he speaks in spirit and those who have ears to hear, hear! They hear what the spirit says. Romans 8 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Some preachers here in the USA try this and do die, but the bible says they won't. Seems like a deadly lie? Mark 16:18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." Xna it was meaning spiritually dead. Cut off from relationship with the father for disobedience. They were walking and talking freely with him in the cool of the day prior to this.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 29, 2015 15:28:15 GMT -5
These verses Heb 6: 18 "God did this so that by two unchangable things in which it is impossible for god to lie we who have fled to take hope of the hold set before us may be greatly encouraged." Yes and this: Titus 1 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began. Lol..we were typing the same verse at the same time I think. Pup woke me up.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2015 15:30:17 GMT -5
I'll have to get back to you after, I'm on my way out These verses Heb 6: 18 "God did this so that by two unchangable things in which it is impossible for god to lie we who have fled to take hope of the hold set before us may be greatly encouraged." Numb 23:19 "God is not human that he should lie, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill.?" Titus 1: 2 " This truth gave them confidence that they have eternal life which god -who does not lie -promised them before the world began." Ha ha I was reading the same verses, I've deleted mine, no point in duplications lol
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