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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 4, 2007 18:09:18 GMT -5
God never instructed us to hide ourselves from the world.
True. But not wanting the public distribution of one's photographs is not a sign of wanting to hide. It's a classic example of the exes overshooting interpretation: the Workers don't want Worker's photos to be plastered all over the Internet, therefore they are trying to hide the Gospel and are being secretive.
A point to whomever can spot the logical disconnect.
He said that we should rejoice if we are persecuted for our righteousness sakes.
Your interpretation of this verse suggests that the cyber activities of the exes are a form of persecution, and that the exes comprise the lost world (two assertions with which I would agree). After all, the demand for Worker's photos on the Internet come exclusively from one source: exes.
I always find it ironic that when exes apply these scriptural verses with a view toward highlighting the "hypocrisy" of the Workers, they end up concluding themselves as members of the world.
We are to be a light to the world, and let that light shine boldly before men.
No! Jesus is the Light of Life, and it is him dwelling in us that we shine before the world. We do not promote ourselves in any way, shape, or form.
As exampled by the apostles in the NT who went and spoke BOLDLY the gospel as pertaining to Christ before the lost sheep and the gentiles.
As do the Workers. The circulation of their photos on the internet have nothing to do with this.
Remember it is not the sick who need a physician.
?
When he said that these things were hidden from the wise and prudent, it was because their minds and hearts were closed to them. They were unable to accept the gift that Jesus was offering because of their own pride and self righteousness.
You have moved on from Worker's photos on the 'net, to claiming the Workers are hiding the Gospel message, to making statements with which we would ALL agree. I don't know why exes do this so often - assert things with open-eyed wonder as if those things were news to the rest of us.
It wasn't because they were actually hiding it from them. It was because of unwillingness.
Perhaps.
There is really no place in the bible were there is any instruction that we should hide ourselves from the world, and save ourselves from persecution. But there are many verses and examples showing exactly the opposite.
The Apostles shut themselves in the house "for fear of the Jews"; the saints helped Paul to escape by letting him down the city walls in a basket; I agree that we are not to strive to avoid persecution, but I don't think we are commanded to actively seek it out either. Persecution happens. It happens to "all who would live godly lives in Christ Jesus".
The early church was persecuted, and because of this they were meeting in homes. But even then it doesn't say that the church went about to hid themselves altogether. Especially not the apostles. Who were out there still spreading the gospel with the same boldness as ever. In some cases they left an area if they thought there life was actually at risk, but this is hardly comparable to putting ones picture on the internet.
Not it is not! I've been wondering why so much has been written so completely removed from the original point about photos.
God forbid someone might see it there and say something bad. Boo hoo. If they are in God's true way they have nothing to fear.
The old "accusation-of-fear" routine. Whenever the Workers and Friends do not willingly play into the hands of the militant exe-brigade, let's just accuse them of fear and ignorance and assume them to be of weak moral character; spineless. That's a workable argument! And what's better, it's so easy!
I don't see the motive being fear at all. I am not fearful, but I don't circulate my digital photos around the Internet. I would like to see the same individuals asking for openness and making judgements about the Worker's motives post their own photos of themselves right here on the TMB. If they are unwilling to violate their own privacy in such a way, does that mean they are trembling with fear and cowardice?
Classic example here of why there will never be unity between exes and the Friends, any more than darkness can have fellowship with light.
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Post by _ on Sept 4, 2007 18:13:23 GMT -5
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 4, 2007 18:16:43 GMT -5
When you shine a light on truth, it should still be truth right? Then why are they afraid of the light? Do you ever eat sausage? Looking in at the sausage making industry with too bright a light is not always a good thing. It does not change the truth but there are many who are better off perhaps not knowing all of the truth. Well as the saying goes.... you are what you eat!!!!!!! ;D
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Post by speaking of which on Sept 4, 2007 18:22:35 GMT -5
Then the workers do not follow Jesus. They are afraid of being seen and do not have trust nor faith in GOD.Curious then that God did not see fit to include a full-colour photo album with the Bible. Or, a couple of chapters providing a complete profile of the Lord and the Apostles: the colour of John's eyes, the size of the Lord's nose, the extent of Matthew's perspiration in hot weather, etc. Have you ever seen a photograph of Jesus? Neither have I. So the point being made is a nonsense. You're right, GIT. The point you attempted to make just now is nothing but NONSENSE. I thought you were leaving this forum for your health. Rest up, dude. You need it.
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Post by gee whiz on Sept 4, 2007 18:23:59 GMT -5
Then the workers do not follow Jesus. They are afraid of being seen and do not have trust nor faith in GOD.Curious then that God did not see fit to include a full-colour photo album with the Bible. Or, a couple of chapters providing a complete profile of the Lord and the Apostles: the colour of John's eyes, the size of the Lord's nose, the extent of Matthew's perspiration in hot weather, etc. Have you ever seen a photograph of Jesus? Neither have I. So the point being made is a nonsense. Do you have to work very hard at being this stupid or does it just come naturally?
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Post by _ on Sept 4, 2007 18:26:33 GMT -5
Then the workers do not follow Jesus. They are afraid of being seen and do not have trust nor faith in GOD.Curious then that God did not see fit to include a full-colour photo album with the Bible. Or, a couple of chapters providing a complete profile of the Lord and the Apostles: the colour of John's eyes, the size of the Lord's nose, the extent of Matthew's perspiration in hot weather, etc. Have you ever seen a photograph of Jesus? Neither have I. So the point being made is a nonsense. Do you have to work very hard at being this stupid or does it just come naturally? uncalled for...
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 4, 2007 18:43:53 GMT -5
Do you have to work very hard at being this stupid or does it just come naturally?
I freely confess to being stupid. I know very little.
But I do know this: the claim that because Workers don't want their photos circulated on the Internet they are hiding the Gospel holds no merit, because there are no photos or profiles on the Apostles - only their letters - but no one accuse them of hiding the Gospel. Consistent interpretation and standards?
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Post by Not entirely true on Sept 4, 2007 19:24:07 GMT -5
As far as I know, the general rule in the United States is that anyone may take photographs of whatever they want when they are in a public place or places. Absent a specific legal prohibition such as a statute or ordinance, you are legally entitled to take photographs. In most countries it is illegal, in public and private settings, to take voyeuristic photos of intimate body parts in any setting in which a person has a "reasonable expectation of privacy". An 'upskirt' photo taken in a shopping mall, for example, is illegal in most places.
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Post by to GITwister on Sept 4, 2007 19:42:58 GMT -5
Do you have to work very hard at being this stupid or does it just come naturally?I freely confess to being stupid. I know very little. But I do know this: the claim that because Workers don't want their photos circulated on the Internet they are hiding the Gospel holds no merit, because there are no photos or profiles on the Apostles - only their letters - but no one accuse them of hiding the Gospel. Consistent interpretation and standards? GIT, you practice intellectual dishonesty on this forum more than anyone who has ever been here. It's impossible to lend the slightest amount of credibility to anything you write. For example... The point is that the workers do not hide "the Gospel" because that is not within their ability. However, the workers DO hide "their version of the Gospel" which even you refuse to stipulate the points therein, thus bolstering the argument that the workers hide "their version." Until you can be honest with yourself, you'll never achieve honesty with others. Until you stop lying to others you'll never learn to stop lying to yourself. You say things that are not true and expect us to believe it. Sorry, no dice. You claim to be a logical person, yet you are unable to utilize logical thinking skills when facts are placed before you. Facts are facts no matter how much you refuse to open your eyes. I wish you well in your process to recovery...you did say you were leaving, didn't you?
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 4, 2007 19:46:48 GMT -5
As far as I know, the general rule in the United States is that anyone may take photographs of whatever they want when they are in a public place or places. Absent a specific legal prohibition such as a statute or ordinance, you are legally entitled to take photographs. In most countries it is illegal, in public and private settings, to take voyeuristic photos of intimate body parts in any setting in which a person has a "reasonable expectation of privacy". An 'upskirt' photo taken in a shopping mall, for example, is illegal in most places. I wasn't talklin' about taking pics of intimate body parts!!! Geesh! The pics of the workers are hardly that titillating!
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Post by wondering on Sept 4, 2007 20:19:06 GMT -5
GloryinTruth - Thought you were leaving this board!!!!!
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Post by Hey Bert on Sept 4, 2007 20:27:25 GMT -5
Rapidly getting off the subject... ps Jesus WAS the light that all could see, but He also rejoiced that these things were hidden from the wise and prudent, and revealed unto babes. So you SHOW people a good example, but you don't confide your inner feelings, prayers, experiences etc to people who may respect your life, but hate it also. Do you mean the way the 2x2 dismiss all other Christians?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2007 23:48:07 GMT -5
quote - "God never instructed us to hide ourselves from the world. He did, actually. Many times.quote - "The early church was persecuted, and because of this they were meeting in homes." This is an old urban myth. They did not meet in homes because of persecution! Worshiping in your home would not save you, OR your home, if people want to get you.quote - "God forbid someone might see it there and say something bad. Boo hoo." Does the way your church live invite outsiders to say bad things as ours does?quote - "If they are in God's true way they have nothing to fear." I thought you said they were afraid of persecution?
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Post by a believer on Sept 5, 2007 3:42:32 GMT -5
Then the workers do not follow Jesus. They are afraid of being seen and do not have trust nor faith in GOD.Curious then that God did not see fit to include a full-colour photo album with the Bible. Or, a couple of chapters providing a complete profile of the Lord and the Apostles: the colour of John's eyes, the size of the Lord's nose, the extent of Matthew's perspiration in hot weather, etc. Have you ever seen a photograph of Jesus? Neither have I. So the point being made is a nonsense. Have you thought that the reason we have not seen a photo of Jesus is because there were no cameras in his day.
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Post by ii on Sept 5, 2007 4:40:26 GMT -5
I hear that in the friends in England have been instructed not to put phots of workers on facebook/myspace/email/online photo albums etc. , because there is concern that the internet is becoming too damaging to the church. They do not want photo's transferred to sites opposing 2x2's. Then the workers do not follow Jesus. They are afraid of being seen and do not have trust nor faith in GOD. i think you will also find that Jesus did not want to be seen or known
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Post by _ on Sept 5, 2007 4:41:53 GMT -5
Then the workers do not follow Jesus. They are afraid of being seen and do not have trust nor faith in GOD. i think you will also find that Jesus did not want to be seen or known and that is why he didnt come to earth... didnt start a ministry... and didnt travel around preaching the Gospel... because he didnt want to be seen or known...
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Post by ii on Sept 5, 2007 4:47:56 GMT -5
i think you will also find that Jesus did not want to be seen or known and that is why he didnt come to earth... didnt start a ministry... and didnt travel around preaching the Gospel... because he didnt want to be seen or known... I meant to say there were times Jesus did not want to be seen or known, but suspect you know that already
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Post by a believer on Sept 5, 2007 5:31:04 GMT -5
Then the workers do not follow Jesus. They are afraid of being seen and do not have trust nor faith in GOD. i think you will also find that Jesus did not want to be seen or known Jesus wanted to be known, he wanted that all men would come to know him. He said he spoke openly to the world.. and said nothing in secret.. John18:20
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Post by guest5 on Sept 5, 2007 8:28:38 GMT -5
wingsofaneagle - We would like to see some actual pictures of you. How about it. None of the fake ones like lots on here use.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 5, 2007 9:08:30 GMT -5
wingsofaneagle - We would like to see some actual pictures of you. How about it. None of the fake ones like lots on here use. Well m'dear Guest 5... you must be "newer" than me coz my pic used to be my avatar. However, I was told that the pic wasnt me either!!! I can't win I guess!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 10:04:57 GMT -5
Workers are so paranoid about exes that they must feel that the utter reality of photographs is a threat to their existance. It you can't trust reality, life becomes a night-mare.
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Post by ANDREW M on Sept 5, 2007 10:46:25 GMT -5
Perhaps the aversion to cameras has to do with the amount of "negative exposures" they've had in recent times ?
People nowadays want their presentations to be "black and white," not "diffused or coloured images."
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Post by las logged out on Sept 5, 2007 11:10:57 GMT -5
If you are going to ban cameras you'll need to ban cell phones to cause most have built in cameras
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 5, 2007 16:49:57 GMT -5
wingsofaneagle - We would like to see some actual pictures of you. How about it. None of the fake ones like lots on here use. Well m'dear Guest 5... you must be "newer" than me coz my pic used to be my avatar. However, I was told that the pic wasnt me either!!! I can't win I guess! Lol. Get used to the scepticism, Wings. I haven't been who I really am nearly since I got here...and I'm also about 15 other ids too! lol ;D M.
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 5, 2007 17:12:51 GMT -5
Have you thought that the reason we have not seen a photo of Jesus is because there were no cameras in his day.
Perhaps my point was lost.
I was responding to the claim that the circulation of photographs make the Gospel preached by the Workers to be "shown" rather than "hidden".
I find this absurd. A photograph lends no more validity to a man, than a drivers' license; it no more "shows" his words, actions and behaviour than a drivers' license "proves" someone to be a good driver.
My point was that if we applied the same logic to the original preachers of the Gospel, they would be disqualified. We don't even know Thomas' eye colour, let alone what Jesus himself looked like. Does that mean they were "hiding" something?
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Post by _ on Sept 5, 2007 17:16:37 GMT -5
I do find it odd that they (the workers) would speak out on this subject... but I find no objection to their desire to limit photos of themselves being distributed on the web...
Cameras and picture time at convention was the norm growing up in the fellowship...
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 5, 2007 17:18:26 GMT -5
In most countries it is illegal, in public and private settings...
In Australia it is illegal to photograph or film someone without their consent and to publish it in a public space. I keep a careful eye on most ex-2x2 websites. If ever there appeared photographs of Australian Friends or Workers I would notify the appropriate people (as well as the host ISP) to take legal action.
(I recieved this legal advice yesterday from the Dept. of Education, so it is quite fresh.)
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 5, 2007 17:40:43 GMT -5
GIT, you practice intellectual dishonesty on this forum more than anyone who has ever been here. It's impossible to lend the slightest amount of credibility to anything you write.
Intellectual dishonesty? Do I falsify quotations; take citations with disregard for context; apply inconsistent rules of interpretation to different groups of subject matter? No I do not.
The accusation that I "practice" In.Di. on a recurrent basis implies that I consciously write lies, and do so all the time. This is an offensive and unsubstantiated comment equating to personal abuse.
If you disagree with my views, fine. You can state your disagreement and your reasons freely on this board. But to turn around and say that the reason you disagree with me is because I lack all "credibility" and are a chronic liar is neither fair, nor appropriate.
For example...
Let's look at the substance attached to this claim.
The point is that the workers do not hide "the Gospel" because that is not within their ability.
This is a semantic shift. Playing around with terminology. It is not the nature of the Gospel which was being discussed. It was the concept that because the Workers do not want their photographs circulating through hostile hands on the internet, that somehow they lose integrity; that somehow they are wanting to "hide", be "secretive" and "escape from reality".
Read back through the thread. It was these comments to which I was responding. The introduction of this new topic regarding "nature of the true Gospel" and how it "cannot be hid" by the efforts of the Workers is immaterial.
However, the workers DO hide "their version of the Gospel" which even you refuse to stipulate the points therein, thus bolstering the argument that the workers hide "their version".
Again, you are shifting the terms of the discussion. Previous posters have expressly stated that the Workers are hiding the Gospel BECAUSE they do not want their photographs circulated. This is a cause and effect statement. You are now taking the conclusion of previous posters - "Workers hiding Gospel" - and justifying that on a completely different basis: "don't stipulate the points thereof".
Now that really is being economical with the truth! You take a conclusion (B) produced by a premise (A), and justify that conclusion (B) based on an entirely different premise (C) and then claim the conclusion (B) is perfectly accurate after all, even though it was originally based on a totally different premise (A).
Until you can be honest with yourself, you'll never achieve honesty with others. Until you stop lying to others you'll never learn to stop lying to yourself.
Thank you for the advice, God.
You say things that are not true and expect us to believe it. Sorry, no dice. You claim to be a logical person, yet you are unable to utilize logical thinking skills when facts are placed before you.
I don't expect anything from ex-2x2s. If you've read enough of my writings on this board you will appreciate that my estimation of exes is very low indeed.
Facts are facts no matter how much you refuse to open your eyes. I wish you well in your process to recovery...you did say you were leaving, didn't you?
You are mightily confused if you think what you have written in this post is "fact" as opposed to "opinion". All your assertions about how I'm lying to myself; am In.Di; that I expect other people to believe my lies - are these facts?
This entire post is opinion. I therefore find it very ironic that you should finish your post very primly announcing that you are the fellow with the facts. If you honestly believe your opinions to be facts with which we must all agree, then you are quite delusional.
Enjoyed the ad hominem assault. When you have a failed argument, I guess all that is left is to personally abuse people.
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