Sounds like your steady
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Post by Sounds like your steady on Sept 5, 2007 21:54:23 GMT -5
Finally, had dinner with the workers to discuss the problem at hand. Found out that it is not just one issue that bothers the friends, it is an entire array of issues. The teenage son being worldly, wife being seen in shorts working in the yard, my family who don't profess buying alcohol, and my place of employment. There were other issues that were not true mentioned too. Was told that we could still come to Wednesday and Sunday meetings, but would prefer that we consider making some changes in our lives, and that I learn to manage my family. Well, everyone knows that women run most families. I was respectful and kind when I mentioned I would love to have a better job than managing a book store, and I expect that I could sell the cars that they drive around in order to get some money to start my own business. They told me not to be harsh. I was upset about the mentioning of my wife's dress code. I feel that on Wednesday's and Sunday's sure she should put forth her best before God. If she wanted to wear bib-overhauls around the house, outside or to the grocery, that was fine by me, because it is what is inside her heart and mind that matters most. I am real surprised that they didn't say something about her hair not being in a bun. she just keeps it pulled back, and I like it that way. The son issue is probably somewhat my fault. I guess I didn't want him to feel different from other students his age. I remember quite well what it was like to grow up as a professing child. I remember watching TV at school and feeling like I had to hide those experiences from my family. Often times when I go to tell him goodnight, he is usually reading his bible, and wanting to talk over what his testimony will be on Sunday morn. or reading the bible study for the week. He has mentioned several times that he would love to go out into the work. He has such an in depth understanding of the bible that most adults would only dream of having. The problem with my family who don't profess and drink and smoke, don't know why they didn't mention the smoking issue, I feel has no baring on the subject. Think they are just digging. It isn't like we go to the bars with them or have a parties that they all get smashed at. But yes they often do bring their own drinks to family functions only because they know I will not buy it for them. So, I went to the meeting the wife and kids did not. I don't want to leave the "truth" and made that very clear tonight in meeting. I spoke of how we all have short comings and how rumors and lies can totally destroy a fellowship. I talked about how it takes a special person to still love an enemy and even though I did not know who for sure my enemies were I still loved them and would never do anything to harm or bruise the feelings of a fellow saint. I would continue to be there to help with any and all projects, physically, emotionally and financially if all possible. I talked about my meeting with the workers. I noticed a few tears were shed. Hands were shook after the meeting, but still felt the cold. Bitter cold a sickening cold, like a death cold. Wife wants to call the state police and report the cars stolen. Now wouldn't that just put the icing on the cake. Sounds like your gonna make it. Let them reject you. Jesus never retaliated, so that would be fruitless for you to. You did it "just right" tonight !! The path less traveled you took! !
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Post by mortified on Sept 5, 2007 21:59:07 GMT -5
Yes, I agree. You did what most of us strive to do but fail miserably. However, I think they will continue to push you and your family out. I think things will even get colder than they were tonight. I hope I am wrong for your sake. I know this means everything to you and your family. I have seen this many times and it seldom gets better from this point on.
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Post by freedom on Sept 5, 2007 22:13:15 GMT -5
Wow! Thank you for sharing. I really commend you for what you did. That took a lot of courage! Did you ask for the cars back, straight out? How ironic that they thought YOU would be harsh to take the cars back. Did they not see what they were doing as harsh ? And all the reasons for this shunning are really stupid, in my eyes. Most unbelievable is of seeing your wife working in the yard in shorts . Some of these people really need to step back and get a glimpse of reality! I do know the northeast US is much more strict than the rest of the US, but, good grief! Well, you know that lots of people's hearts are with you, thinking of you, and praying for you, so you are not alone. Keep your chins up. Freedom
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Post by nitro on Sept 5, 2007 22:14:45 GMT -5
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Post by freedom on Sept 5, 2007 22:15:44 GMT -5
Oh, in my opinion, you should make it clear that you need the cars back by a specific date, and if they are not returned, then you would have to report them stolen. Yes, that would put the icing on the cake!
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Post by ScholarGal on Sept 5, 2007 22:31:18 GMT -5
Finally, had dinner with the workers to discuss the problem at hand. Found out that it is not just one issue that bothers the friends, it is an entire array of issues. . . Thanks for coming back to the board to let us know what happened. I can't imagine the pain you must feel right now. As a current member of the fellowship, I am horrified to hear about your experiences. I pray that your family will find comfort in God. I'm also praying that the very judgmental people who have caused your pain will have a revelation of true wisdom.
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Post by freespirit on Sept 5, 2007 23:35:57 GMT -5
Yes, I agree. You did what most of us strive to do but fail miserably. However, I think they will continue to push you and your family out. I think things will even get colder than they were tonight. I hope I am wrong for your sake. I know this means everything to you and your family. I have seen this many times and it seldom gets better from this point on. hmmm... I dunno. I haven't found that to be true at all. Sometimes it takes time and a little patience, to be sure. But things always turn around--people get bored being mean to people who are happy, and just, well.. I dunno... move on. Sometimes it takes weeks, sometimes months, sometimes years. But it always passes. I've been the recipient of gobs of gossip. Some is true. Some is not. *shrug* It's the price of being a freespirit. It always blows over if you stay in peace, trust that things will work out and don't give a crap about other people's opinions. If you keep stirring the poop, the stink can last years. I know people who lose the dubious "privilege" of caring for the worker's mail and think that the world is about to end... makes me want to scream, "GET A GRIP, PEOPLE! GO SMELL THE ROSES! LIFE IS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!" But, no, they are too much looking at the black clouds and don't realize that right above the clouds the sun is shining bright, the sky is blue and God has good things in store for the those who trust in him. Hurt, I'm sorry you are hurt. It sucks. It really does. It's a lot more fun when people think you are super-saint instead of the devil incarnate. But, I can tell you, I've been called both and neither is true. I'm not as good as my fans think, nor as bad as my enemies believe. I'm just me. And that's how I go to God. He's the one we can trust. I've learned that if you trust Him, He'll work it out. But you gotta stay in His hand. And I don't mean leaving or staying in the meetings... I mean staying in HIS hand. I don't understand the issue with you working at a bookstore. That makes no sense to me. I don't understand the women's dress code lecture either. I really liked that other thread about the difference between a free spirit and a rebel, because often we are mistaken for each other. Honestly, all dress code lectures are file 13'd for me. I think the dress code is dumb. It's not scriptural so I don't follow it. Period. I don't care if other people follow it, but as for me, I'm going to follow what God tells me to do and leave the gossip for the people who like to gossip. God has bigger goals and plans for my life than getting caught up in that mess. Still, I can tell ya the first time or two you lose social standing over something that God himself has given you guidance to do it really bites. After that you learn to deal. You learn to trust. God is still in control. He's still working it out. He'll fight our battles for us. There is something that one of the men said in the last Christian Motorcycle Group we attended that I really like... he said, "Let God be God." And I like that. It's so... simple and yet profound. I don't know what to think about the car. That falls into the category of these verses from Luke 12 IMO.... 42And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. Because slapping you around on one hand while taking your car with the other is akin to beating the menservants and maidens, eating and drinking (on your dime) while being drunken with their own sense of power. JMO of course. And we only know one side of the story here. I agree with others who have said that the workers are sometimes seriously out of touch with reality. Not all of them.... well, scratch that... I think all of them (being sans car payment, house payment, electricity bill, kids, spouse, job, schools to deal with, legal matters to deal with, groceries to buy, groceries to cook, house to clean, yard to keep, etc, etc) are out of touch with reality and the normal everyday life that normal people live. But IF they are in touch with God, they can still be huge spiritual helps. If they are not... they can come up with some pretty bizarro ideas about how the rest of us are supposed to live. Anyhow, I'm sending you a cyberhug. I'm sorry for your pain. peace, freespirit
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arlis
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Post by arlis on Sept 5, 2007 23:56:36 GMT -5
Freespirit: I enjoyed your post. Just one question for you, though. Why would a person stay in a group that abused them? Here is an interesting read off of another thread.
Posted by Ken Coolidge
Re: Are the Friends, Workers & Meetings a CULT? « Reply #1443 on May 28, 2007, 5:40pm »
Read and Decide for yourself Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.
Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.
Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.
The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
The group is preoccupied with making money.
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
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Post by concerned on Sept 6, 2007 0:24:06 GMT -5
upset and hurt,
would encourage you to register so that we can PM you. You can still remain completely anonymous and only have to answer questions that you want to answer.
I have some questions and comments for you that I would prefer not to post for everyone to see.
Meanwhile, I do believe what you've said and encourage you to look to the Lord and remember HE is in CONTROL!!!
Will pray for you and your family.
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Post by freespirit on Sept 6, 2007 0:48:39 GMT -5
Freespirit: I enjoyed your post. Just one question for you, though. Why would a person stay in a group that abused them? If God says "stay" then stay. If God says "go" then go. It's that simple (and that complex) to me. My natural family is far from perfect. And yet... despite the dysfunction I enjoy family get-to-gethers and have no plans at this time on trying to adopt myself out to a different one just because old uncle goonhead happens to be a nutcase. I accept that he's a nutcase and has his own personality to deal with... but that doesn't mean I need to leave my whole family over one (or two or ten or a thousand) nutcases. I'm content where I am because this is where God has me for now. Maybe someday it will be different. Maybe it would please people if I would go. I don't know. I'm willing to let God decide that. I try to "live peacably" with other people as much as I can and to not burn bridges. My goal (spiritually) is simply to encourage other people to pray and get in touch with God. I don't much get into where people go or do not go to church. I'll leave that for people who like to argue about such things. I enjoy fellowship with other Christians (and other religions as well, for that matter) so I don't feel confined or bound just because I happen to go to meetings. I take classes, go to other religious gathering, I listen to tapes and DVDs. I read a LOT of books. If I left the meetings, my life would not change. I'd still live in the same house, drive the same car, have the same job, the same husband, the same kid, wear the same clothing. So... why should I go? The only thing I'd miss out on would be 2 hours a week of being with people who I happen to like. So... whatever... what's the point in leaving? But... I have known pain. But if you think that you can leave the 2x2s and every other group you join will love and accept you and people will never abuse you...well... I think you haven't joined enough groups or lived enough. Because EVERY group made out of humans has politics and gossip and other issues. The 2x2s are (IMO) less difficult to handle than some volunteer organizations I've been apart of. I think people take it too seriously. Not God I mean... I love God. God needs to be taken seriously. I guess. I dunno. I look at octopi and I wonder about that too. But in any event, I think people take the workers, the friends, the organization way too seriously. Some sister worker makes some off-the-cuff remark 15 years ago and we harbor those things in our heart letting them eat away at us. What if the next time some worker (or preacher or teacher) came up with some freako rule, we just laughed it off and followed God instead, huh? Wouldn't that be cool? What if we all lived by what God put in our heart instead of some man-made rules? (And every religion that I've seen has man-made rules.) What if (when the winds of gossip blew foul) we didn't let other people affect us so much, but instead kept searching for God? Kept trusting... kept believing in that larger blessing that was right around the corner? Anyhow, that's what I want for me... a bigger, more Christ centered vision. peace, freespirit
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 6, 2007 0:52:50 GMT -5
freespirit, you pretty much rock. M.
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Post by Skeptic Al on Sept 6, 2007 3:46:06 GMT -5
Upset and hurt, You are either a master storyteller or you have some really messed up workers over there in the NE. My gut instinct is shouting "TROLL!" but I gotta admit, I'm wondering, "Is this guy for real??" I hate to say this, but your posts make me laugh like no other posts I've read on here in months! I'm getting some kind of twisted kick out of this whole drama, like it's some surreal TV sitcom. Like the teenage son who has his TV and computer stuff and sort of his own pad, but would "love to go into the work." Yeah, now there's a common teenage career goal! And the wife says "report the cars stolen." You're right, that would definitely "put the icing on the cake." Dude, you are seriously cracking me up!! If your story is true, use your corporate/MBA intelligence and get the heck out of Dodge while you can. These workers are using you, man! You don't need the TMB board to tell you that. On the other hand, if this is fiction, you rock! Keep the posts coming! I can hardly wait for the next installment!
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Post by upset and hurt on Sept 6, 2007 5:36:52 GMT -5
Don't know why but I woke this morning with a sense of peace. A peace that seems to dwell deep from within. It is almost that same feeling you get when you hold your first new-born for the first time. I don't seem to care about the cars, or what the other saints feel toward me. I just have this desire to keep God first in my life and one thing this mess has help me realize is that my prayer life needed some attention. I have spent a lot of time these past few days communing with God and seeking his help along with those on this board. And I thank you all for you words of kindess and inspiration. I know that some are skeptics but that is between you and God, not me. I don't know what the future holds for my family and how we will be treated by the fellowship but I do know that with if God is for us who can be against us. Hope you all have a good day and God Bless each and every one of you.
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Post by Alone on Sept 6, 2007 7:50:59 GMT -5
It may not be worth a lot, but I'd like to add my comments here. I understand where you are at this time because I've been in a similar place. It's difficult to understand that those you felt were on your side, have turned against you, especially if you don't fully understand what you've done. I'm glad that you have the security to trust God right now. He is the one you have to answer to and He is the one who understands. There is the vs. which says "I will never leave nor forsake you". Trust in that and keep yourself pure and honest before him. You have nothing to fear. It's very difficult for you & your family right now but this too will pass. Keep your focus on things above and these other things will eventually work out. Probably those you go to mtg. with are as confused as you are. But if you keep your spirit and your attitude right; this may show them a lot more than the rumors and worker's words and advice. I try to pray for those who are going the experiences like you are. It's like riding on a roller coaster. You slowly approach the top, then you're over the top and going super fast & your stomach hasn't caught up with the rest of you yet and you can't see the track ahead. Rest assured that even though you've not faced this experience before; many of the rest of us have been there. You will eventually get a lot of it sorted out. Some you may never have answers for but God will give you wisdom and He will comfort you when others shun you. Been there, done that and have more joy than ever before!
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Post by freedom on Sept 6, 2007 9:32:36 GMT -5
Upset and hurt, You are either a master storyteller or you have some really messed up workers over there in the NE. Like the teenage son who has his TV and computer stuff and sort of his own pad, but would "love to go into the work." Yeah, now there's a common teenage career goal! Skeptic Al, You are quite unbelievable yourself. You are messed up if you think a TV and computer, and sort of his own pad would prevent a teenager from entertaining thoughts of the work. He apparently is NOT getting a negative, oppressive, twisted view of Christianity from his parents. They appear to be giving him space to discover himself--that is so important for a teenager. He doesn't have to spend his time and energy figuring out how he is going to sneak out and do stuff, and he can just be real. Looks like he's spending more time reading his bible than a majority of teenagers in households that suppress the child's individuality. Is that so surprising? I agree that the workers in this area seem to be pretty messed up. I fully believe this story. It does not sound made up to me, although quite unbelievable action of the workers and friends, for ridiculous reasons. Freedom
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Post by think about it on Sept 6, 2007 10:22:28 GMT -5
Just picture this scenario....
THE MESSIAH returning from the clouds in the GREAT RAPTURE...
Where will you be ,with whom ,and how?
Would it REALLY matter?
It is THE TIME when The MESSIAH WILL seperate the wheat from the tares.Only GOD knows who are HIS ELECT,and I think we all have an idea who WE ARE!
So quit bothering about the people and desire HEAVENLY WISDOM....THE WISDOM that tells you what GOD loves...it is all written in The Word of God...
Personally, I know that my affiliation with some group will NOTTTT be important when JESUS COMES.In other words,my being a part of the ...........group does NOT guarantee any SALVATION!
Calling ourselves by some NAME....or NO NAME for that matter will NOT guarantee our salvation.Remember, it will not be a "group" judgement. Many will say ,Lord , Lord, and the Lord God will say I KNOW YOU NOT...ye that work iniquity!
Pray for Heavenly Wisdom to do what is acceptable to God.Remember... NOTHING CAN SEPERATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD,neither height nor depth,nor principalities nor powers,nor things present or things to come.... Thank God for the VICTORY you give us through JESUS CHRIST .Amen.
Peace and love to all...Remember Seek ye FIRST the kingdom of Heaven...and ALL things will be added unto you...Cast your cares on God .Trust Him in ALL things...
IN ALL YOUR WAYS ACKNOWLEDGE HIM AND HE SHALL DIRECT YOUR PATHS.... GOD IS TRULY AN AMAZING GOD! IT IS NO SECRET WHAT GOD CAN DO! NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH HIM! HALLELUIAH. PRAISE BE TO THE LAMB!
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Post by Mary Todd Lincoln on Sept 6, 2007 11:19:16 GMT -5
The Sisters Of Temperence would exhort all to try and keep a fair and balanced mentality when dealing with religious groups of people. Let us remember one of the founding truths of our nation: Freedom of Religion. Without that you may not have too many -cultish- believers, but without that you would not have the freedom to worship as you wish. The friend and worker group has drawn a lot of rapid-fire and cross-fire dialogue here. I believe there needs to be some temperence mixed in with that because hearts on fire are inclined to run away with the truth.
Ladies and gentlemen: let us be more forgiving and let us truly learn lessons as we go. If you do not learn your lessons, you'll just have to repeat them repetitively.
Dress codes are given a place in many groups, but should NOT be a hinderence to spirituality. One could be spiritually delayed/retarded simply because one spends too much time deciding what to wear for meeting or putting their hair up just right. Before one knows it they have spent over an hour on their appearance and only 15 minutes reading, praying and meditating. This is very unfortunate; because it should be reversed: ie, an hour reading, praying, meditating and 15 minutes on physical appearance.
What really needs to be stressed is living in a true Godly manner with high morals of BEHAVIOUR. Immoral BEHAVIOUR is a far greater issue than womens hair. Affairs and cheating of all types, whether they be emotional affairs or sexual ones can be destructive to relationships and to the fellowship; causing divisions and jealousy to fester.
Professing men: you need to keep your hands and your eyes to yourselves. Women: same goes for you. Married men, do not neglect your wives. Women: treat your man like a man and be YE thankful for all the hard work his does for you, so that you don't have to go out and slay the dragon, butcher it, and bring it home to fry in a pan. Men and women both, treat ALL your friends with respect and kindess. Respect begets respect. Kindness begets kindness.
Remember that we are ALL sinners. Some sin is openly displayed and others is quite cleverly hidden. Be truthful. Have compassion for one another as you are all sinners in God's eyes. Your friends, workers, aquaintances and family may not know about all your sins, especially the secret ones, but God knows.
Don't give gossip and chance to linger . It breeds nothing but mold and mildew. Remember all the wonderul examples of SEEMING misfits in the Bible whom Jesus made a loving example from .
Love your worst rivals and enemies. You never know when they might become a good comrad.
Most of all, love God with all your heart, mind , and soul. He instructed us to do this very thing and for good reason(s).
That will be all. Yours in temperence, Mary Todd Lincoln.
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Post by Hmmmmmm on Sept 6, 2007 11:35:31 GMT -5
Freespirit,
I wish more people had the level headed sensibility you have.
I can't imagine why some get bent out of shape and offended over some of the things they do. Then they cut themselves off from the friends they had, and go out and seek to find better ones.
I guess in some areas they are able to do that... so be it I guess. I truly feel sorry for any that didn't have friends around them that were worth keeping. It saddens me to think that someone I meet with would think of others I meet with or myself that way.
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 6, 2007 12:09:13 GMT -5
Upset & Hurt For the record I believe you, and have believed you reported a genuine event in your live when I read your first post. I am good at spotting fakers. And that's you're not. I'm really surprised some have even suggested it. Your post reeks of truth, hurt and unfortunately reality. Just curious--were these bro or sister workers? Old or young workers? What part of the world/state do you live in? I suspect its not a big city. My perspective on what the workers did to you: They slapped you (in the face, and not on the hands); turned your friends against you; shunned you; then had the nerve to tell you "not to be harsh" when you hit back (re cars). That's incredible GALL if you ask me! These workers are so out of it that they have no feeling of empathy for your loss in income, circumstances, etc. ... only feeling what affects them, the work, or their pocketbook. They should have OFFERED TO return the cars to you, when you were without work, and possibly needed the cash. You'd think they would know what side their bread is buttered on. I can tell you that it was a very very black day for me, the day I discovered that the workers are more interested in maintaining their status quo than in upholding scriptural truth. It is the only time I have ever been depressed--for about a week. When I realized the workers weren't really truly interested in truth--that truth isn't their priority. Are they removing your union meeting? If they do--for sure, you should get the cars back. (And install a big screen TV in what WAS the meeting room!). No worker should have any control over any of the areas in your life that they took issue with. The Holy Spirit guides believers in all truth...and the workers aren't the HS--and many don't trust the HS to do as good a job as they would! I'm pleased to see that you haven't allowed that in the past (shorts, TV, hair down, employment, etc.) The meetings need more people like you to lighten it up. But the pioneers usually have it rough. If I were your wife, I'd be tempted to cut my hair off very short! (Some professing women are doing this, and workers are saying very little to them!) Most workers could use a Dale Carnegie course in How to Win Friends and Influence People. Maybe you can find one of these books in your book store and give it to them. This type dictatorial behavior isn't going to work much longer on the friends. Many are taking things into their hands, and out of the workers control. Friends are doing what the Spirit guides them to do. Do you know when all dictatorships have fallen? When the peons refused to do what the dictators dictated any longer. The rules of the workers are no exception. A note about your son: If he were raised in another church setting, there is a good chance that he would feel drawn to the ministry there. He's likely being drawn to a work for the LORD, regardless of which setting it might be in. When did you thinkt he meetings began? Are you aware of the short 2x2 fellowship history? It's barely 100 years old! Most workers won't tell you this tho. It isn't "God's only true way," but simply a way/method among other man-made ways/churches. It was started in Ireland by a man named Wm Irvine. Isn't that amazing that you never heard about this in meetings? Read all about it at: home.earthlink.net/%7Etruth333/index-WmIBook.htmlWell, I've said my piece. I don't often get this riled up! You have my sympathy and empathy. Cheerio, Cherie
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Post by ken coolidge on Sept 6, 2007 13:04:08 GMT -5
My exact sentiments. Thanks Cherie Ken
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Post by sharonhargreaves on Sept 6, 2007 13:49:56 GMT -5
Dear Upset and Hurt
Good for you to have a face to face visit - this is what many of us should have done many times when odd ball situations arose.
But no - we stuck our heads in the sands and rehearsed the old 'comfort hummm ddeeeee dummmmmmmmmmbbb'
"Wellllllllll------- we know the people aren't perfect - but the "w a y" is perfect"
Well many of have discovered - the hard way - that 'the way' and Jesus are two very different things.......
Praise God for the wake up calls!!!!!!
As Cherie has pointed out 'it was a black day when I found out the workers are more interestd in maintaining their staus quo than upholding spiritual truth -'
It was something similar for me when I read worker Dale Schultz' letter to the friends in Alberta during the process of 'excommunications' his words can be found word for word on TTT website -
"whether it be right or wrong how things were handled - we will stick with the 'staus quo'-
{and believe me - stick with the stautus quo they did --and praise God it woke a large number of people up to get acquainted with the real God of the real Word and the real interpretter - the Holy Spirit}
that was so shocking for me to read - in Dales own handwriting - a man whom I had once believed to be altogether interested in 'God's work' was in fact not, willing to stand for what was right but rather stuck with the 'status quo'-
What once seemed a 'black day' to many of us - was actually the beginning of the greatest wake up call that began the opening of the eyes for what the 'system' really is all about.
The truth we do have to face is that we had put our trust in man and not God and in a method and system and then called it
"The Truth"
It is not easy to come to terms with our misplaced trust and it takes time to build a direct relationship with God - but God is waiting and ready to come to our rescue!!
It no doubt varies among workers and places but my understanding over recent years is that 'professing people' shouldn't even be SEEN going in a Video store - much less working there.
I have a feeling - since you have lent TWO cars to the workers and have charge of their mail - that you have been pretty high on their 'list' -
so you are expected to hop, skip and jump more precisely to their 'standards'......
From being in the work 28 years I can assure you that many workers get a very 'personal ownership' feeling about cars that are long time in their hands... - some areas have 'field cars' and some areas have friends who practically 'give' a car over -
except for the paperwork and the upkeep - and then there are those workers who have cars in their own name......
(Yes - Bert - it's true)
{ and it is also true that testimonies have been cut off by announcing a hymn...................}
A couple I know well, lent their car to the workers and when it FINALLY got returned after much longer than they thought it would be gone - found it had gone all the way to California without their knowledge.
Keep persuing living before God alone - we are praying for you and I for another do believe your 'story' - it is so like many others we have known.
sharon hargreaves
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wife needs to chill
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Post by wife needs to chill on Sept 6, 2007 13:56:34 GMT -5
Wife wants to call the state police and report the cars stolen. Now wouldn't that just put the icing on the cake. I was sympathizing til' you posted this last sentence. You willingly let someone use the cars and your wife wants to report them stolen even though they aren't? Why would she want to do that?
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Post by fly on the wall on Sept 6, 2007 14:07:25 GMT -5
Wife wants to call the state police and report the cars stolen. Now wouldn't that just put the icing on the cake. I was sympathizing til' you posted this last sentence. You willingly let someone use the cars and your wife wants to report them stolen even though they aren't? Why would she want to do that? I agree. In reading that story, I wished I could either hear the conversation or read an account from each side. It is amazing how much a story can change depending on one's perspective.
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Post by Skeptic Al on Sept 6, 2007 14:13:01 GMT -5
So, I'm still waiting for you to register, "Upset and Hurt" -- even anonymously -- so I can take you more seriously. No offense, dude, but your story is such a smooth mix of believable tales and laugh-out-loud absurdities that my Troll meter is oscillating wildly back and forth.
And again, I ask, is there anyone on this board from the NE who can confirm that a meeting was yanked from someone's home (a former VP of a corporation who now sells Bibles for a living) without the homeowner's knowledge, someone who fits this poster's profile? There aren't a lot of meetings on the East coast so I reckon this would be pretty easy to verify.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 6, 2007 14:16:24 GMT -5
Upset and Hurt, the reasons you mentioned for the shunning, according to the workers are: "The teenage son being worldly, wife being seen in shorts working in the yard, my family who don't profess buying alcohol, and my place of employment." Your son doesn't profess, so what are you supposed to do.. kick him out of the house? My father did that to two of my brothers upon the workers request, and my father regretted it until the day he died. It destroyed their relationship. One of my brothers is now an atheist and carries so much anger around with him because of the workers. If the shorts your wife were wearing were skimpy shorts, then they might have an argument in regards to modesty and the role of an elder's wife etc. However if they were just regular shorts, then its back to "appearances" again and the fact that you can't be Godly and wear shorts. The women holding up the banner of righteousness again. Your unprofessing family buying alcohol... what has that to do with you? Or, are you talking about your son being the unprofessing family or your extended family? Your place of employment: A christian book store i think is where you said you work. What is wrong with that? They sell LOTS of bibles in there. I could see them having a problem if you were working in a porn video store. Maybe they are scared that by working in the christian bookstore you might read the secret sect? I am so sorry for you that you have to go through this. You are an honorable father and are to be commended for how you are handling this.
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Post by ANDREW M on Sept 6, 2007 14:26:07 GMT -5
Like some others I remain extremely sceptical about this matter. If it is a true account then my apologies in advance to "upset and hurt."
However, for those baffled by lending goods (in this case cars) to others and later reporting them as stolen, cases such as this can and do occur, at least in Scotland.
If you lend someone something, let's use the cars mentioned here as an example, and there is agreement between the parties that it is only for an agreed period of time or a particular journey, etc, but the person who has possession then keeps that property beyond the agreed period and fails to return it, then it can become felonious appropriation (theft !).
There must be similar laws in the States. Furthermore, in the case of loaned vehicles it is highly likely that useage of the vehicles beyond the agreed time will not be covered by insurance unless the person using the vehicle has taken out their own insurance. Nevertheless, even if they do have their own insurance policy, this will very likely not cover felonious use of a vehicle.
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Post by Belle on Sept 6, 2007 15:53:19 GMT -5
I am curious as to why the workers talked about you and your situation to the others in your area before they talked with you about it?
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Post by Skeptic Al on Sept 6, 2007 16:10:19 GMT -5
'Wings: U and H actually reported that his son does profess (in fact he would "love to go into the work" someday), just to clarify...
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