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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 1, 2007 9:04:19 GMT -5
from what i have heard, the workers have said that even coming to this board is not something a child of God should be doing. if this is true, why do the friends post here? is'nt that in direct defiance of the workers' wishes? why do it then? anyone have any thoughts on this?
will anyone answer the hardcore questions? or just avoid them?
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Post by Calvin on Sept 1, 2007 10:28:20 GMT -5
from what i have heard, the workers have said that even coming to this board is not something a child of God should be doing. if this is true, why do the friends post here? is'nt that in direct defiance of the workers' wishes? why do it then? anyone have any thoughts on this? this is a serious question. I think what the workers mean is that it's not edifying to come here. If the 2x2's try to defend their beliefs, they get hammered on. Very little of the discussion here is about doctrine. Instead it's accusations of being a cult, sticking their head in the sand, worker worshipping and on and on. In addition, there is a lot of "painting with a broad brush" of all 2x2's based on experiences that someone may have had with one of them. Also, there is a lot of foul language and personal attacks here. If I was a 2x2, I don't think I'd hang around very long. And yes, I it works both ways because there are some friends who have been on here and been just as rude to ex's. My 2x2 mom always avoided "negative" places. If she read some of the threads here, she would be disgusted. Since "being a peacemaker" and "turning the other cheek" are things that I often heard as a child when I went to Gospel meetings, I can see why the workers feel like this is not a productive place to be.
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Post by las logged out on Sept 1, 2007 10:33:58 GMT -5
from what i have heard, the workers have said that even coming to this board is not something a child of God should be doing. if this is true, why do the friends post here? is'nt that in direct defiance of the workers' wishes? why do it then? anyone have any thoughts on this? will anyone answer the hardcore questions? or just avoid them? The bottom line is there is 2x2 confusion..2x2's themselves are victums of there own demise
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2007 10:42:43 GMT -5
from what i have heard, the workers have said that even coming to this board is not something a child of God should be doing. if this is true, why do the friends post here? is'nt that in direct defiance of the workers' wishes? why do it then? anyone have any thoughts on this? will anyone answer the hardcore questions? or just avoid them? Personally, I have believed for a long time that the chasm between exes and insiders should not be as great as it is. I also believe that the fault of the chasm is more closely associated with the f&w church than it is with the exes, although some exes can be quite repelling too. Open, honest, frank discussion is the only way to begin to break down those barriers, even if it means a little rough and tumble conversation at times. The workers are right. Most friends are not mature enough Christians to be able to participate on a forum such as this and are best to stay away. In fact, most workers are not mature enough for a forum such as this so they rightly follow their own advice. Perhaps in time this will change as we are seeing a small amount of maturity developing in the Severud case at the overseer level and hopefully this continues on a larger scale.
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Post by Brick on Sept 1, 2007 11:36:26 GMT -5
This place is so much FUN! And all my friends are here!
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Post by not endorsed on Sept 1, 2007 11:44:39 GMT -5
The Workers have always valued the benefits of Plausible Deniability. That is why they don't like to have sermon notes fall into "the wrong hands". They can always say that you must have heard wrong, or that you misunderstood what was said.
To participate on this forum is to leave an undeniable record. Not good. The Workers know better. Their word is supposed to represent the party line, and not their own individual views, if they happen to differ. But the party line is not universally the same world-wide.
The Friends posts, on the other hand, are completely deniable. The Friends' post represent the individual's concepts of what the sect is to them. A fine example of this is Nate's postings, both here and elsewhere. His writings represent his beliefs, and will never be given official endorsement.
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Post by Calvin on Sept 1, 2007 13:29:00 GMT -5
I think some of the replies in this thread are exactly why they don't come here.
Rarely do we get to specifics. I don't see stuff like, "please tell me the verses where it says to meet in homes" followed by, "OK, I see those verses but I interpret them this way." I would love to follow discussions like that.
Instead it's just these vague statements like, "you are a victim of 2x2 confusion" or "most friends are not mature enough to come here."
Are most of the discussions here mature? No. The nature of discussion boards dictate that they will never be mature or productive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2007 14:25:46 GMT -5
I think some of the replies in this thread are exactly why they don't come here. Rarely do we get to specifics. I don't see stuff like, "please tell me the verses where it says to meet in homes" followed by, "OK, I see those verses but I interpret them this way." I would love to follow discussions like that. Instead it's just these vague statements like, "you are a victim of 2x2 confusion" or "most friends are not mature enough to come here." Are most of the discussions here mature? No. The nature of discussion boards dictate that they will never be mature or productive. Calvin, do you think that what has transpired in the Severud case as a result of this board is immature or non productive? Amongst the silliness on this board, there's some good stuff happening. My comment about immature Christians amongst the friends was not vague at all. I know from experience that few friends or workers are capable of carrying on a mutually respectful and productive faith-related conversation with anyone outside of a meeting. They would feel crushed on this board, so they would best stay away.
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 1, 2007 14:41:25 GMT -5
This place is so much FUN! And all my friends are here! oh yeah this place is a real riot..... all my friends are here too...and a few who are not my friends..lol.. but i'm still here thanks for your honesty, Brick.... (post modified due to new information)
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Post by as I c it on Sept 1, 2007 15:11:40 GMT -5
Calvin,
I believe it all depends on the maturity and the readiness of the individual themselves.
Those who are still concerned with "the image" of our church, shouldn't come here.
Those who are ready to face the reality of it, will do well.
The handling of the reuban incident was obviously handled by those who cared more about "the image" of the church than ...other things.
(And, sad to say, with their handling of the situation--they alone brought a bad "image" to our fellowship). And even as a 2x2, I'm utterly disgusted with those who in their wisdom hid the man and protected him: and allowed him--with THEIR "help"--albeit unknowingly, perhaps--to go on molesting and destroying the lives of others.
Plus--they broke the law of our lands.
Lyle, on the other hand, by his actions, has improved "our image".
And obeyed the law of our lands.
I believe we're a very strong church, and that we don't need to concern ourselves with keeping the "outwardly perfect image" --which is but an illusion anyways--and that "our image" will gain far more when it's just "real" about itself.
And when you look at some of the 2x2 postings (like Cleardays or "free spirit's) that's what you'll really find...
Not a desire to destroy our church--but a desire for the real truth to strengthen it.
And this site allows for that expression to take place--which I feel is good!
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 1, 2007 15:26:05 GMT -5
but what does that have to do with the fact that the workers do not want the friends here, and yet they come here anyway?....
that says something about their respect for their own ministers.
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Post by Calvin on Sept 1, 2007 16:23:37 GMT -5
I think some of the replies in this thread are exactly why they don't come here. Rarely do we get to specifics. I don't see stuff like, "please tell me the verses where it says to meet in homes" followed by, "OK, I see those verses but I interpret them this way." I would love to follow discussions like that. Instead it's just these vague statements like, "you are a victim of 2x2 confusion" or "most friends are not mature enough to come here." Are most of the discussions here mature? No. The nature of discussion boards dictate that they will never be mature or productive. Calvin, do you think that what has transpired in the Severud case as a result of this board is immature or non productive? Amongst the silliness on this board, there's some good stuff happening. My comment about immature Christians amongst the friends was not vague at all. I know from experience that few friends or workers are capable of carrying on a mutually respectful and productive faith-related conversation with anyone outside of a meeting. They would feel crushed on this board, so they would best stay away. I would be the first to say that the Severud thing was a great outcome. Whether or not it would have happened without this board is debateable, but I love what Juli and Scott etc. did. I still say that most of what happens on this board is negative and rude. I really have to sift through the garbage to find something useful. Most friends I know are quite capable of defending their faith and directing people to the places in the Bible that they say upholds their beliefs. I have differing interpretations than they do, but that doesn't prevent us from having intelligent and civil conversations about. The environment on this board, 90% of the time, is not conducive to productive debates about doctrine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2007 16:33:33 GMT -5
but what does that have to do with the fact that the workers do not want the friends here, and yet they come here anyway?.... that says something about their respect for their own ministers. Not really, it says something about their respect for God. Follow the directives of God first, ministers second.
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 1, 2007 16:41:29 GMT -5
okay. so then its okay? God says its okay to come here and yet God has also moved the workers to tell the friends not to come here? something doesn't fit.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 1, 2007 18:21:29 GMT -5
from what i have heard, the workers have said that even coming to this board is not something a child of God should be doing. if this is true, why do the friends post here? is'nt that in direct defiance of the workers' wishes? why do it then? anyone have any thoughts on this? this is a serious question. I think what the workers mean is that it's not edifying to come here. If the 2x2's try to defend their beliefs, they get hammered on. Very little of the discussion here is about doctrine. Instead it's accusations of being a cult, sticking their head in the sand, worker worshipping and on and on. In addition, there is a lot of "painting with a broad brush" of all 2x2's based on experiences that someone may have had with one of them. Also, there is a lot of foul language and personal attacks here. If I was a 2x2, I don't think I'd hang around very long. And yes, I it works both ways because there are some friends who have been on here and been just as rude to ex's. My 2x2 mom always avoided "negative" places. If she read some of the threads here, she would be disgusted. Since "being a peacemaker" and "turning the other cheek" are things that I often heard as a child when I went to Gospel meetings, I can see why the workers feel like this is not a productive place to be. Calvin *hehe* I agree with this entire post. There are friends and ex's on here who have been plenty rude..myself included at times..not that I'm proud of it. I'm not. That said, Randy, for some reason I thought you said on here once that you still went to meetings? Not picking on you, I just must have misunderstood. If you still had been going to meetings, guess you could have answered your own question! It probably isn't edifying, but I think the ones that go to meeting on here are pretty sturdy in their beliefs, and I don't think it's wrong to defend them. I especially agree on the doctrine issue though; that would be nice to see more of....not accusations of cult, etc...but more talk about scripture, etc. We do see that a lot by some people..not so much by others. (again, I'm not excluding myself from that group. I don't talk as much about religion as I should, instead defending what I believe, even though I don't attend meetings for a long while now.) That said, I don't agree with some of the teachings, which I guess is part of the reason I no longer attend. Mich
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Post by and yet on Sept 1, 2007 19:29:07 GMT -5
God comes first in my life, my family second and the workers, the friends last. [/color][/quote] ...and when it comes to salvation, you put the workers first and God last.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 1, 2007 20:39:04 GMT -5
Just ignore it, Nathan. I don't always do that myself, but it's the best idea really. They have no idea who you put first or last in your personal life and what you do off of these boards. Have a good one. M.
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Post by cutting others on Sept 1, 2007 20:58:40 GMT -5
The workers do not want people coming here because they are afraid that they will find out the truth about their group. The workers have long tried to put a barrier between those who are in and those who have left, saying they have gone bitter, want an easy way........they try to cut of those who have left so that people will not find out the truth fearing that they will lose more people. You would think they would encourage those in to talk to those who have left but sadly they fear the exes will contaminate those inside.....It is the way of cults.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2007 21:06:38 GMT -5
okay. so then its okay? God says its okay to come here and yet God has also moved the workers to tell the friends not to come here? something doesn't fit. Bingo. It is right for some, not for others. It fits perfectly.
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savedbyblood
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Eventually we'll figure it all out!
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Post by savedbyblood on Sept 1, 2007 22:38:57 GMT -5
from what i have heard, the workers have said that even coming to this board is not something a child of God should be doing. if this is true, why do the friends post here? isn't that in direct defiance of the workers' wishes? why do it then? anyone have any thoughts on this? will anyone answer the hardcore questions? or just avoid them? "Rainman," I'm typing this really slow in case your brother isn't there to read it for you. Since I'm such a jerk to you for no explanation than you do not like my faith in Jesus and the 2by2 Way, I will pick nits... First! The Workers only said that coming here was something a Child of God should not do. There is no edict or order from them. Maybe they are afraid of their own faith coming to question if they read some of the good posts here. They may yet to realize just how much strength and knowledge the Lore imparts to those who love Him. If the Workers would examine themselves concerning the teachings pg Paul the Apostle they might be better served to increase their own faith and again practice the "laying on of hands" to receive the Holy Ghost and the gathering over one in the Church who is sick with the elders and anoint with oil and pray that the sick one be healed in the name of the Lord. The Worker's answer to these questions is usually,"we just don't do that anymore", or "that was for their time." "Rainman," I don't think for a minute that 2by2's post here out of defiance to the workers. We post here to increase Faith and exhort all to see the Truth and to understand that the "Truth" as it is called is rife with human weaknesses as is any religious or Business entity. Please pray for the Blind, SBB
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Post by this is true on Sept 1, 2007 22:49:28 GMT -5
God comes first in my life, my family second and the workers, the friends last. [/color][/quote] ...and when it comes to salvation, you put the workers first and God last.[/quote] This is true. When it comes to salvation, nathan believes that those outside of 2x2ism cannot be saved unless they "profess" through a worker. Thus, he puts 2x2ism first and God last.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 1, 2007 22:59:11 GMT -5
very judgemental and an opinion not a fact.
I do not believe that because Nathan believes one has to profess through a worker to be saved, that that means he puts God AFTER the workers. That is, again, your opinion and you cannot make it fact no matter how many times you state it as such. M.
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Post by the fact on Sept 2, 2007 2:15:13 GMT -5
nathan and wtbwg both put 2x2ism first and God second.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 2, 2007 2:26:00 GMT -5
Lol. Night! Sweet dreams! M.
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 2, 2007 3:46:19 GMT -5
but what does that have to do with the fact that the workers do not want the friends here, and yet they come here anyway?.... that says something about their respect for their own ministers. Not really, it says something about their respect for God. Follow the directives of God first, ministers second. okay.. interesting answer, and nathan's too.... i'm listening, after all, i'm here too, and i'm a 2x2 forever, not even by choice it sometimes seems. and it helps to know why everyones is here, and to not be alone in going against the other workers wishes by posting here. and Legion published, and so did Paul... and sew it goes... i have trouble with sin, and my spirit, but no trouble with the love, and the compassion, and the forgiveness.... i have trouble with the joy, because i suffer from depression, but i have good days... and i've been happier lately, it helps when the girl i like likes me right back....
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 2, 2007 3:55:32 GMT -5
from what i have heard, the workers have said that even coming to this board is not something a child of God should be doing. if this is true, why do the friends post here? isn't that in direct defiance of the workers' wishes? why do it then? anyone have any thoughts on this? will anyone answer the hardcore questions? or just avoid them? "Rainman," I'm typing this really slow in case your brother isn't there to read it for you. Since I'm such a jerk to you for no explanation than you do not like my faith in Jesus and the 2by2 Way, I will pick nits... First! The Workers only said that coming here was something a Child of God should not do. There is no edict or order from them. Maybe they are afraid of their own faith coming to question if they read some of the good posts here. They may yet to realize just how much strength and knowledge the Lore imparts to those who love Him. If the Workers would examine themselves concerning the teachings pg Paul the Apostle they might be better served to increase their own faith and again practice the "laying on of hands" to receive the Holy Ghost and the gathering over one in the Church who is sick with the elders and anoint with oil and pray that the sick one be healed in the name of the Lord. The Worker's answer to these questions is usually,"we just don't do that anymore", or "that was for their time." "Rainman," I don't think for a minute that 2by2's post here out of defiance to the workers. We post here to increase Faith and exhort all to see the Truth and to understand that the "Truth" as it is called is rife with human weaknesses as is any religious or Business entity. Please pray for the Blind, SBB my mistake. sorry SBB.... i thought you were Syd B. de Boer.... my bad.... but when you said "pray for my wife"..... i thought of Syd, but i wasn't about to make a rude comment about his wife, i couldn't do that, i am not really out to truly hurt anyone in their weak spot... i just think he and bunny have been uncaring, and indifferent toward me. i dont even want in the chatroom...i was in there tonight though... and also, i am listening and not putting 2x2s down. i am one, and i just wanted to see if my thoughts matched up with other 2x2s.... peace.. ranman
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 2, 2007 4:05:21 GMT -5
Just ignore it, Nathan. I don't always do that myself, but it's the best idea really. They have no idea who you put first or last in your personal life and what you do off of these boards. Have a good one. M. Thanks, sis... I will try my best to IGNORE! these drive-by, hit-run and hide, stones thrower/s run away, anonymous! they are so brave with false accusation, personal attacks mode when they write as anonymous without revealing their true identities.
I wonder the anonymous be so brave to post the mean, personal attacks mode posts with their real names on it?
You have a nice Labor day weekend and please send my greetings to your honey.i agree. say who you are, so that when you are rude, and cruel, and nasty, you can suffer the humiliation, and embarrassment, and also the honesty in not trying to hide the fact that you are a sinner, just like me (us)... i know that although i have recieved judgement for my posts, and some won't forgive, at least its good practice for not hiding my face because of my sin....(plus anyone that knows me knows that some of my posts are just an act, to make people think i'm crazy..its what they wanna believe, so why not play the game, shock em into a coma...lol) peace, ranman
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Post by TubeTrain on Sept 2, 2007 6:17:42 GMT -5
Ask the workers!
I have and They said "NO" to this question because they know one will start to ask questions. They say "We are not to ask questions, just attend meetings and missions".
However, God allows us to choose.
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