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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 4, 2007 2:37:46 GMT -5
I think what the workers mean is that it's not edifying to come here. If the 2x2's try to defend their beliefs, they get hammered on. Very little of the discussion here is about doctrine. Instead it's accusations of being a cult, sticking their head in the sand, worker worshipping and on and on. In addition, there is a lot of "painting with a broad brush" of all 2x2's based on experiences that someone may have had with one of them. Also, there is a lot of foul language and personal attacks here. If I was a 2x2, I don't think I'd hang around very long. And yes, I it works both ways because there are some friends who have been on here and been just as rude to ex's. My 2x2 mom always avoided "negative" places. If she read some of the threads here, she would be disgusted. Since "being a peacemaker" and "turning the other cheek" are things that I often heard as a child when I went to Gospel meetings, I can see why the workers feel like this is not a productive place to be. Calvin *hehe* I agree with this entire post. There are friends and ex's on here who have been plenty rude..myself included at times..not that I'm proud of it. I'm not. That said, Randy, for some reason I thought you said on here once that you still went to meetings? Not picking on you, I just must have misunderstood. If you still had been going to meetings, guess you could have answered your own question! It probably isn't edifying, but I think the ones that go to meeting on here are pretty sturdy in their beliefs, and I don't think it's wrong to defend them. I especially agree on the doctrine issue though; that would be nice to see more of....not accusations of cult, etc...but more talk about scripture, etc. We do see that a lot by some people..not so much by others. (again, I'm not excluding myself from that group. I don't talk as much about religion as I should, instead defending what I believe, even though I don't attend meetings for a long while now.) That said, I don't agree with some of the teachings, which I guess is part of the reason I no longer attend. Mich Jesus sent me here, i am just learning this... don't tell anyone...
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Post by A hissy on Sept 4, 2007 2:45:51 GMT -5
Ask the workers! I have and They said "NO" to this question because they know one will start to ask questions. They say "We are not to ask questions, just attend meetings and missions". However, God allows us to choose. I once started asking a good friend of mine some questions. Not to be confrontational or anything. Just because I wanted to get her imput on a few things which I have had questions/concerns about. Some of these questions involved things such as: History? Why do we give workers so much unquestioned authority when they are people and make mistakes like everybody? Should we question workers on some of their actions? The deity of Jesus? And other questions... She completely had a hissy and started saying things like we should never question. That it is a sign of a bad spirit. That we should just listen to the workers, and what they say is best. If we have any questions to just pray about it that God would bring us back to the fold. SHE WAS adamant THAT A QUESTIONING SPIRIT WAS A BAD SPIRIT. I was shocked. Shouldn't we make sure that our calling and election is sure. Shouldn't we seek out wisdom and understanding. Shouldn't we try the spirit. IF we just believed everything everybody told us and didn't question anything, would we not be in a very dangerous situation
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 4, 2007 6:21:10 GMT -5
Open, honest, frank discussion is the only way to begin to break down those barriers, even if it means a little rough and tumble conversation at times.
Ecumenical dialogue is never intended to gloss over inter-denominational differences, or to bring a doctrinal conformity. Dialogue and discussion is meant to promote understanding, so that different groups can work together, and be friendly with each other.
The problem as I see it, between the Friends and the exes, is that because the exes have already been in the Fellowship, some (and I emphasis "some") think that they have all the answers and a superior revelation to us "cultists". Some think they know everything there is to know about the Fellowship, and are therefore in a position to lecture us - us! - on the character of the Church to which we are committed.
Then we have the confected outrage when the perspective is presented that the Friends hold to the belief that the Fellowship constitutes the One True Church of Jesus Christ in the earth (which I believe it is), and that all who willingly, of their own volition remain outside of it are lost. Surely this is no new thing!
Unfortunately, most exes have little experience in the field of apologetics. I have devoted a considerable portion of my life to the defence of Christianity, interacting with Muslims, New Agers, Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics (and now exes). Although I know that Muslims hold that Christians are damned, when I go onto the message-boards and interact with the Muhammads, and Alis, and Fatimas and Sophias, I don't generate some kind of outrage at the belief.
The workers are right. Most friends are not mature enough Christians to be able to participate on a forum such as this and are best to stay away.
This has not been my experience of the TMB. I have found the most juvenile, immature behaviour I have ever witnessed in the guise of theological discussion, on this board emanating from exes, some of whom are woefully incapable of stringing two coherent sentences together. The exe who followed me around posting repeatedly, "GIT believes all non-2x2s are going to hell" is a case in point. Fragile sensibilities - as if my twice stated belief comes as some kind of shock. Immaturity. Inability to handle differences. Exe.
Actually, I believe the TMB is a powerful apologetic tool, and a wonderful witness for the Friends. I encourage professing people to visit this board, because the sheer volume of overwhelming hatred here only confirms us in our faith; persecution will blow the dead wood out of the pews - I am not concerned with those whose faith is grounded upon a baseless foundation; I am concerened with those whose faith is grounded in Jesus Christ, and who persevere in the Fellowship in the mystery of the riches of grace in Christ.
To exemplify my point. I remember showing my parents this board only a couple of months ago. My mother was absolutely shocked - shocked! - that such things could exist in print.
"The work of the devil" was her comment. (Well said, mum!)
In fact, most workers are not mature enough for a forum such as this so they rightly follow their own advice. Perhaps in time this will change as we are seeing a small amount of maturity developing in the Severud case at the overseer level and hopefully this continues on a larger scale.
Persisting in this view of the Friends as immature Christians following immature preachers with a deficient, defective and inadeqate revelation is not the path to better understanding. When you start to qualify your perspective rather than make unsubstantiated generalisations, productive discussion will be closer within the reach of us all.
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 4, 2007 6:34:47 GMT -5
I once started asking a good friend of mine some questions. Not to be confrontational or anything. Just because I wanted to get her imput on a few things which I have had questions/concerns about.
I have no omniscient powers, so I can't make any judgements about your motives, but I can't help wondering why you felt compelled to ask the questions if you already knew the answers about the Fellowship's history etc. Teachers ask questions to which they know the answers as a rhetorical device; a means of eliciting thinking from students - were you trying to do the same?
She completely had a hissy and started saying things like we should never question. That it is a sign of a bad spirit. That we should just listen to the workers, and what they say is best. If we have any questions to just pray about it that God would bring us back to the fold.
What did you say to this woman!
SHE WAS adamant THAT A QUESTIONING SPIRIT WAS A BAD SPIRIT. I was shocked.
It can be, I believe.
Shouldn't we make sure that our calling and election is sure. Shouldn't we seek out wisdom and understanding. Shouldn't we try the spirit.
When I attend a Roman Catholic Mass, or Anglican Evensong, or a Baptist Service to "try the spirits", I don't bombard the Priest \ Minister \ Pastor with questions about Church History, why they have so much authority in the church, and whether they can be questioned by parishoners \ congregants or not. Such questions would probably be percieved as quite rude.
Making our calling and election sure comes from seeking Christ and directing our questions to him. Seeking wisdom comes from reading the scriptures ("The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom"), and trying the spirits comes down to our perception of the work of the Holy Spirit around us and within us. 'Tis got nothing to do with the questions you were proposing!
IF we just believed everything everybody told us and didn't question anything, would we not be in a very dangerous situation
If we believed nothing anyone told us, and questioned everything, would we not be in a very dangerous situation? Extremism is a bad form of argumentation. No one is asking you to believe "everything" you are told. Let's get some perspective.
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Post by really on Sept 4, 2007 7:48:28 GMT -5
GIT,
You are BY FAR the best writer on this Board!
I urge you to stick around regardless of what some may say to try to "discourage" you!
It is good to see your clarity of writing and excellent explanations etc etc etc.
Unfortunately,one cannot see this in the majority of posters.Most do not make any sense anyway;they are just CHEAP attacks on anyone and anything .... really, a sign of "emptiness" to say the least.
It is posters like you that we need on this Board to discourse sensibly and debate issues that are otherwise not so clear to the regular reader.Personally, I do not think that most posters are here for civil discourse,but rather to air their grievances etc etc .
There is nothing wrong with that.We are all at different stages in our lives and if some cannot shed the bitterness and unforgiveness,they have only themselves to blame. After all, we have FREE CHOICE....either to let the past bog us down....or to BREAK FREE and LET GO and LET GOD...
All this being said, we know that GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!
BE STILL AND KNOW THAT HE IS GOD!
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Post by really on Sept 4, 2007 8:02:31 GMT -5
Back to the original question,
ranman asked ...do the workers want professing people here?
Do you ask the workers' permission to do the other things you do?
Get a grip ,pal.
Fear God, and keep His commandments.For this is the whole duty of man.
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Ramona
Junior Member
Posts: 155
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Post by Ramona on Sept 4, 2007 8:19:55 GMT -5
Heartfelt, spiritual and helpful posts from ANYONE who writes here are welcome. It's like perusing the cards at the Hallmark store.... Some make you laugh, some you don't bother with, and then some bring tears to your eyes and make a difference. As for me, conversations, friendships developed and help received has happened HERE that otherwise would not have been.
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Post by to wtbwg on Sept 8, 2007 1:40:26 GMT -5
Just ignore it, Nathan. I don't always do that myself, but it's the best idea really. They have no idea who you put first or last in your personal life and what you do off of these boards. Have a good one. M. Yet somehow you do.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 8, 2007 1:41:04 GMT -5
Never said I did. Just said you didn't. Hurry up..I'm catching you! M.
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