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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 4, 2006 18:48:16 GMT -5
I recently had lunch with a bundle of workers. It's always interesting to sit in on these conversations and hear what some of them have to say.
One of them was saying it was a shame that so-n-so's wife never professed, nor did his brother, yadda yadda. They died a few years ago and never came to God.
I was wishing that I had the guts to say, "How do you know they never came to God? Because they didn't come to meetings?"
But, I was actually sitting on the outside of the conversation, and didn't feel like having the whole room turn to stare daggers at me.
It's so frustrating to hear these things. And, as someone pointed out in another thread- some people live their whole lives alienating their families, even their own children, because they believe their families aren't willing for "the truth" of God.
I just feel so blessed that God has given me a true passion for Him- and that He has opened my heart, and my eyes, to see His TRUE way.
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Post by jxr on Aug 4, 2006 19:12:31 GMT -5
A simple answer in this situation would be something like:
Well, it's not our place to judge their salvation, and God knows their hearts.
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Post by out of place on Aug 4, 2006 21:25:15 GMT -5
It's not always that simple... especially when they look on you as an outsider. They stop and look at you as if to say... you poor misguided soul, what would you know?
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Post by Professing on Aug 4, 2006 23:05:56 GMT -5
It's a shame they haven't professed. Do you want to be saved as a 2x2 or by the Grace of Jesus Christ? What does professing mean?
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Post by just me on Aug 5, 2006 9:16:10 GMT -5
Hearing that type of comment IS frustrating
there is only ONE being who KNOWS for sure where we end up after croaking, and that would be GOD
I am as sure as a man can be that when I die, I will go to heaven, but truth be told, ONLY GOD knows for sure!!!!!!
Personally, I dont think putting in your two cents on the subject, withopeneyes, would have accomplished anything OTHER than opening yourself up to "attack", it is very unlikely ( in my opinion) that they would have responded in a positive fashion to your reality check
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Post by mrleo on Aug 5, 2006 9:53:34 GMT -5
Maybe there is an alternative...maybe you could personalize it...in relation to what had been said you could mention someone you know who doesn't profess and just express that it is a comfort to you that only God knows their heart. That way, you're putting the statement out there, and you're leading by example, but you're applying it to a situation close to you rather than onto the situation which the workers were speaking of. They may not agree with you, but I think it would be a lot harder for them to consider what you said an attack and react to it as such since you were talking about your experience. The only thing they could "attack" in that case would be that you're not being sufficiently judgemental about someone that they don't even know, and I doubt most would choose to do that.
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Post by GuestS on Aug 5, 2006 10:07:18 GMT -5
I'm curious "open eyes" what you were doing with a "bundle of workers"? I'm assuming, of course, that you are no longer professing? If possible could you share the setting in which you were sitting on the fringes of their conversation. And IF you no longer attend meetings then how do you suppose you are seen by them?
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Post by seekingtruth on Aug 5, 2006 12:05:15 GMT -5
mrleo I think you're right on. When workers say that to you at the death of your spouse you are so floored you don't know what to say. There's no way they could hurt you worse. That kind of insensitivity and judgement can't come from the mouth of someone who is supposed to be representing the teachings of Jesus. It was so obvious that that worker neither really knew my husband nor Jesus. The one to pity is the worker.
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Post by mrleo on Aug 5, 2006 13:51:09 GMT -5
It is certainly insensitive and judgmental and understandably hurtful, but it is also very human...so you're right, the one to pity is the one who doesn't see non2x2s as fellow humans. The problem with funerals/deaths is that people often don't know what to say but feel they have to say something, when all they really need to do is give you a hug or simply say "I'm sorry for your loss." The soul of the deceased was never in your or their hands to begin with, and by the time they've died it's even more nonsensical to debate their status.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 5, 2006 15:42:04 GMT -5
I do still attend meetings. The workers were actually visiting someone who (temporarily) lives with us.
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Post by spiderman on Aug 5, 2006 21:07:46 GMT -5
I recently had lunch with a bundle of workers. It's always interesting to sit in on these conversations and hear what some of them have to say. One of them was saying it was a shame that so-n-so's wife never professed, nor did his brother, yadda yadda. They died a few years ago and never came to God. I was wishing that I had the guts to say, "How do you know they never came to God? Because they didn't come to meetings?" But, I was actually sitting on the outside of the conversation, and didn't feel like having the whole room turn to stare daggers at me. It's so frustrating to hear these things. And, as someone pointed out in another thread- some people live their whole lives alienating their families, even their own children, because they believe their families aren't willing for "the truth" of God. I just feel so blessed that God has given me a true passion for Him- and that He has opened my heart, and my eyes, to see His TRUE way. I hesitated to even reply to this because it galls so much. This is the very reason I am so glad that I left and why everyone else who sees this as wrong should speak up and leave. It's really the true sign of a cult. Come and get me all you apologists, I don't care, you are a member of a CULT. These kind of statements about people's salvation are rampant in this way and I see it as PURE Phariseeism. ARROGANCE to the nth degree. Not a humble attitude at all. I am quite sure I don't have all the answers but I know this. The 2x2's in general terms are a cult and they are WRONG. Now you know how I really feel.
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Post by PHDr on Aug 5, 2006 21:13:14 GMT -5
I recently had lunch with a bundle of workers. It's always interesting to sit in on these conversations and hear what some of them have to say. One of them was saying it was a shame that so-n-so's wife never professed, nor did his brother, yadda yadda. They died a few years ago and never came to God. I was wishing that I had the guts to say, "How do you know they never came to God? Because they didn't come to meetings?" But, I was actually sitting on the outside of the conversation, and didn't feel like having the whole room turn to stare daggers at me. It's so frustrating to hear these things. And, as someone pointed out in another thread- some people live their whole lives alienating their families, even their own children, because they believe their families aren't willing for "the truth" of God. I just feel so blessed that God has given me a true passion for Him- and that He has opened my heart, and my eyes, to see His TRUE way. I hesitated to even reply to this because it galls so much. This is the very reason I am so glad that I left and why everyone else who sees this as wrong should speak up and leave. It's really the true sign of a cult. Come and get me all you apologists, I don't care, you are a member of a CULT. These kind of statements about people's salvation are rampant in this way and I see it as PURE Phariseeism. ARROGANCE to the nth degree. Not a humble attitude at all. I am quite sure I don't have all the answers but I know this. The 2x2's in general terms are a cult and they are WRONG. Now you know how I really feel. Ja, you have joined the cult of Ilylo-ism unknowingly.
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Post by Furious on Aug 5, 2006 21:28:22 GMT -5
That is one of the aspects I hated the most about the 2x2s. The arrogance with which this judgement is passed on to non-professing people. ex: "our neighbor is so nice, too bad she is not professing" the previous said in the most sad and regretful drama act.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Aug 6, 2006 11:58:10 GMT -5
"Withopeneyes" has clearly portrayed a fear of man, an ungodly fear. May she and others of like spirit be overcomers of such by her and their true passion for Him.
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Post by guest5 on Aug 6, 2006 12:37:50 GMT -5
To Withopeneyes - Is that YOUR eye on your replies? If so, very pretty so it must go with a pretty face.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 6, 2006 13:00:13 GMT -5
Thanks, guest5.
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Post by ilylo on Aug 6, 2006 14:02:12 GMT -5
To Withopeneyes - Is that YOUR eye on your replies? If so, very pretty so it must go with a pretty face. If it is hers, I wonder if it is common for professing women to wear make-up there.
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Post by D unlogged on Aug 6, 2006 21:23:33 GMT -5
I don't actively attend mtgs. but a couple of weeks ago I had coffee with a worker that I am close to. We had an awesome visit.
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Post by collective nouns on Aug 6, 2006 21:46:52 GMT -5
I recently had lunch with a bundle of workers. It's always interesting to sit in on these conversations and hear what some of them have to say. I do not believe the collective noun for preachers is 'bundle'. If I am not mistaken I think the correct term would be a converting of workers. A bit more fun would be a pontification of workers or a pulpititude of workers.
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Post by yeppers on Aug 6, 2006 22:03:38 GMT -5
a carful of workers
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Post by Guest 1 on Aug 6, 2006 22:28:09 GMT -5
Indeed 'tis so, and the car was a Honda.........and how do we know?
Weeell....they were all in one accord !!
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here there everywhere
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Post by here there everywhere on Aug 6, 2006 22:53:35 GMT -5
To Withopeneyes - Is that YOUR eye on your replies? If so, very pretty so it must go with a pretty face. If it is hers, I wonder if it is common for professing women to wear make-up there. Many do. Some wear it on their lips or a little on their cheeks as well.
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Post by déjà vu on Aug 6, 2006 23:01:23 GMT -5
"I recently had lunch with a bundle of workers"
preachers (workers)are like manure they are most effective out in the field, if he they are in one heap (bundle ) they begin to stink ( from Religious Humor)
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Post by guest5 on Aug 7, 2006 7:12:23 GMT -5
herethereeverywhere- Did you want me to say "in". Don't think it is proper. But evidently you are a master of grammar. So be it. And about makeup, more and more of the ladies are wearing eye shadow in our part of the midwest. Helps with the looks quite a bit. That along with nothing on their legs, sleeveless blouses, stacking. Looks better all the time.
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Post by Unsure on Aug 7, 2006 7:21:46 GMT -5
herethereeverywhere- Did you want me to say "in". Don't think it is proper. But evidently you are a master of grammar. Not a problem with grammar. The sentence was ambiguous. I took the 'there' to be where the woman applied the make up on her body but I can see that perhaps it is the location where the woman lives.
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Post by seekingtruth on Aug 7, 2006 8:30:39 GMT -5
Make-up or no make-up I'll bet they keep their hair just long enough to be put-up!
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Money money money money
Guest
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Post by Money money money money on Aug 7, 2006 9:23:54 GMT -5
I recently had lunch with a bundle of workers... Actually there is nothing wrong with this. Many of them are worth quite a bundle these days. Willis Propp comes to mind.
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dollface
Junior Member
Never dig a hole deeper than you can crawl out of
Posts: 141
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Post by dollface on Aug 7, 2006 9:53:39 GMT -5
When so called Christians discuss their fellow humans in this manner, it is as if they spit into God's face.
We are created in His likeness, Everyone is conceived in Divinity.
Discounting anyone because they aren't in a certain belief system, designed and controlled by MAN, underscores how LITTLE they understand that which they profess to know.
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