elle
Junior Member
Posts: 192
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Post by elle on Aug 21, 2007 21:22:03 GMT -5
But what exactly are the fruits? I suppose something like long-suffering, etc., but is it possible that even atheists could have those fruits? Yes I think they can have these qualities. I have an atheist friend who is a wonderful person, more so in some ways than some of my Christian friends. Its probably possible that all humans are capable of being great people with qualities we all could appreciate. The work of the Spirit of God seems to take us that bit further and seems to effect all the bad bits in our personalities and fill in the glaring gaps as well as enhance the good qualities. Not that this has all happened yet in me ... but I've seen it in others
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Post by Jessi on Aug 21, 2007 22:14:50 GMT -5
But what exactly are the fruits? I suppose something like long-suffering, etc., but is it possible that even atheists could have those fruits? Galatians 5:22+(ESV)
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.I have met athiests, Deists, Buddhists, who seem to have many of these characteristics, a form of godliness, but denying the power of God (II Tim 3:5). If they do not give the glory to Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, they perish. There can be copies of fruit . . . but a life without Jesus is not complete. They have a void in them, whether or not they show it outwardly. They feel it; for no man is complete without his Savior who created him. I believe this will somehow be manifest in their lives (II Tim 3:9). None of these characteristics can get anyone to heaven . . . (Eph 2:8-9) but they are proof of the Spirit, since works follow faith (James 2:18). If these characteristics are present in one who proclaims the Name of the Lord . . . it's a litmus test. But ultimately, only the Lord knows who are His. Christ's Forever, Jessi
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Post by Jessi on Aug 21, 2007 22:39:17 GMT -5
I wonder . . . did you grow up with the believe that the nature of human beings sinced the fall -- is sinful and evil, completely? That no one is good, no, not one, etc,? Was the fall mentioned much? Or have you contemplated what it meant for man?
Were you ever asked to consider those passages . . . About how God looked down on man and saw that the thoughts/imaginations and intents of his heart were only evil continually (Gen 6:5) or that the heart of man is deceitful above all things and desparately wicked (Jer 17:9).
When I was growing up in the F&W, there was not much said about the fall, or sin--in terms of how it is forgiven or imputed or atoned for, about what really happened at the Cross.
Since I started going to Faith Bible, much has been said about this . . . a whole new concept for me in the last three years. It was shocking to me to be told these things and where they were in the Bible. It made much more sense to me, though, than how I was supposed to atone for my own sin through good works or some sort of daily repentance, take up your cross, follow him. A lot of vague stuff about Jesus' path, He "knows the way," etc.
If we could be good all on our own and have the capacity already to do good and have all the fruits of the Spirit --
Why would we need a Savior, the Holy One who died on the Cross in our place? What was the whole point of writing the Bible, a historical/spiritual/redemptive record for us Christians to be instructed and follow . . . Believe?
Christ's Forever,
Jessi
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Post by hawk on Aug 21, 2007 22:55:44 GMT -5
. . . . but I also wonder - just generally speaking - why Christians seem to downplay another's expression of feeling God's Spirit. . . . IMO, if I can't have confidence that what I'm experiencing in those moments is from God.....then what? I have experienced that and have come to the conclusion that if my experience is not exactly like theirs or does not mesh or blend with their experience, then they figure it must not be of God. God works how He wants with each of us individually and our experiences are not going to be equal. I have felt the Spirit a few times in life but few believe it. That is okay because I know what I felt. It took five years of wondering if 'they' were right but I know now they were not. Many still doubt. That is their privilege. And, unfortunately, it is a cause of ignorant division. Since I do not have and have not had the Spirit like they do, I am not 'in'. haha
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