matia
Senior Member
Posts: 242
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Post by matia on Aug 9, 2007 21:38:38 GMT -5
Hi guest ii you would not accept an outsider to speak at your meetings , so it seems a bit strange why you want to sing outsider hymns
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Post by ii on Aug 10, 2007 5:34:41 GMT -5
Hi guest ii you would not accept an outsider to speak at your meetings , so it seems a bit strange why you want to sing outsider hymns why does it seem strange? what was that convention ground again?
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Post by hardtofathom on Aug 10, 2007 18:54:17 GMT -5
It is so hard for me to believe how, guess I will use dumb, so many of the meeting people are about authoring of the hymns. Evidently you didn't want to know who wrote the hymns or you would have checked. To many gullible people like yourself just automatically figured, Oh some worker or friend wrote all of these. I think the percentage of old time religious hymns versus those written by workers/friends was much higher in the previous books before they found some more worker hymns to include when they went to 412 hymns. And to guest ii - there is a person in one Sunday meeting in the town I live in that prays, gives a testimony, takes the emblems every single Sunday. The workers have said, the overseer included that there isn't a thing they can do about it. They just feel the need and do it.
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Post by Anonymous on Aug 10, 2007 19:10:22 GMT -5
It is so hard for me to believe how, guess I will use dumb, so many of the meeting people are about authoring of the hymns. Evidently you didn't want to know who wrote the hymns or you would have checked. I think once you start wanting to believe and then when you accept that "this way goes back to the beginning" you will accept almost anything the workers or friends will feed you.
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matia
Senior Member
Posts: 242
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Post by matia on Aug 10, 2007 22:17:32 GMT -5
to guest ii You ask (why does it seem so strange the 2x2s to sing outsider hymns ) ask your self , you know very well that you are straining at a knat and swallowing a camel , as the saying goes . Prior to 1987 a good portion of the hymns were from outsiders.Do you feel that the outsider hymns are OK, because, I do I admire the outsider hymns , they are just as inspiring as any. I think you will find that any outsider hymns in your hymn book , have not got the name of the author , It just says author unknown.Now that is a bit deceitfull isn't Now getting back to an outsider Spirit filled Christian speaker , would you have them at your meetings or conv.? Next I will not say the name of the CONV grounds as that is not the issue
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 11, 2007 0:58:45 GMT -5
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by _ on Aug 11, 2007 1:29:51 GMT -5
WHO CARES WHO WROTE THE HYMNS Think of it this way... What would be your response if the Friends and Workers often used the sermons of "worldly" preachers in meetings, but rejected these preachers as fellow brethren in Christ...
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 11, 2007 2:00:31 GMT -5
Ok, well I guess I see your point. To me personally, though, I love the hymns. Really couldn't care much less who wrote them! M.
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Post by ii on Aug 11, 2007 3:56:24 GMT -5
to guest ii You ask (why does it seem so strange the 2x2s to sing outsider hymns ) ask your self , you know very well that you are straining at a knat and swallowing a camel , as the saying goes . Prior to 1987 a good portion of the hymns were from outsiders.Do you feel that the outsider hymns are OK, because, I do I admire the outsider hymns , they are just as inspiring as any. I think you will find that any outsider hymns in your hymn book , have not got the name of the author , It just says author unknown.Now that is a bit deceitfull isn't Now getting back to an outsider Spirit filled Christian speaker , would you have them at your meetings or conv.? Next I will not say the name of the CONV grounds as that is not the issue how can i be straining at a knat and swallowing a camel , as the saying goes ? and i couldn't care less who wrote the hymns why are you so chicken to name the convention ground? or something to hide maybe
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Post by ii on Aug 11, 2007 3:58:51 GMT -5
WHO CARES WHO WROTE THE HYMNS Think of it this way... What would be your response if the Friends and Workers often used the sermons of "worldly" preachers in meetings, but rejected these preachers as fellow brethren in Christ... never seen or heard of the writers of hymns being rejected
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by _ on Aug 11, 2007 4:43:13 GMT -5
Think of it this way... What would be your response if the Friends and Workers often used the sermons of "worldly" preachers in meetings, but rejected these preachers as fellow brethren in Christ... never seen or heard of the writers of hymns being rejected So then where you come from "worldly" Christians are viewed as fellow brethren in Christ by the Friends and Workers?
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 11, 2007 7:07:13 GMT -5
to hardtofathom: Some, but not ALL of the hymns in their hymnal, Hymns Old & New, have been written by Outsiders. Yes, there was a larger percentage in the previous Hymns Old & New. (I have not checked the edition before 1951 to see the % there.)
33% of the 335 hymns (112 total) were written by Outsiders in the 1951 Edition
26% of the 412 hymns (110 total) were written by Outsiders in the 1987 Edition
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Post by twosweetnaive on Aug 11, 2007 10:35:09 GMT -5
Jesus Saviour walk beside me til the Homeland greets my view, Help me toil, and sing and journey with a heart and purpose true.
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Post by legal on Aug 11, 2007 11:06:09 GMT -5
Not only do they use worldly hymns, they borrow the tunes to worldly hymns and put their own words to it (I suppose this is legal if the tune isn't copyrighted. If this "way of truth" has been from the beginning that there would be a huge body of music written by the insiders. This is not true-they use outsider's music.)
There are also some hymns that were worldly but someone changed the words, and gets credit for writing a hymn. (Again I suppose that this is done legally? This practice seems a bit deceitful to me.)
The original words to #116 are great. The Sam Jones words to 116 are nice-but not the words that went to the song. Hymn 196 is a copy. There is a worldly song-written before the 2 x 2 version. The author gets credit for both the words and music-when it is a paraphrase of an original worldly hymn.
One thing that has become a glaring point is that often the 2 x 2 doctrine as it is lived here-isn't according to the words of the hymns. Several hymns speak of being sealed as his own. This area is strongly works based. You do not know if you are going to heaven until that day you stand before God. Jesus was a man, although the son of God. He lived perfectly-so can other humans.
Hymn #8 was rewritten from the way it was in the former song book. The chorus said something about Oh, wondrous love, Oh boundless grace....and something about I'll shout and sing....That was changed to He died for me, he took my place.
Do a study of grace in the Bible, then look though the words of the hymn book and see how grace is written. Sam Jones is pretty well on with his hymns. But Sam Jones is not a highly thought of worker. On some of the lists his name is omitted. I've asked US workers about Sam and I get brushed off every time. I don't know what Sam did-maybe it was that he didn't toe the party line?
Don't just blindly sing the 2 x 2 hymns. Read the words, study the message of the hymn. Some are right on-most of those are written by worldly people. There are some 2 x 2 hymns that are scriptural but with careful reading and study you'll find works based salvation in many of the hymns written by workers.
Not so long ago, professing people who have written music or words were invited to send those to someone who compiled them and came out with a new book. Those are not readily available.
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Post by ii on Aug 11, 2007 18:15:14 GMT -5
never seen or heard of the writers of hymns being rejected So then where you come from "worldly" Christians are viewed as fellow brethren in Christ by the Friends and Workers? didn't say that twister
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Post by wondering on Aug 11, 2007 18:43:03 GMT -5
fmofthe2x2s - How do you know they don't use someone elses sermon? I certainly don't know. And don't believe for a minute that some of the workers do know what other preachers are preaching. Of course, you can be as naive as you wish. One old overseer told me directly that Billy Graham preaching sounded just like one well known US worker not in Peru. You might figure that one out. They even sorta looked alike.
As to who wrote the hymns, I really don't care either. Many of the ones written by others than meeting folk have more zip than theirs. Any little bit helps.
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what wouldst thou think
Guest
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Post by what wouldst thou think on Aug 11, 2007 19:16:18 GMT -5
What dost thou thinketh when (as sometimes happens) the workers hold meetings in the churches of "unsaved worldlings"....and then singing the hymns composed by "unsaved" false Christians"? Kind of peculiar & ironic me thinks.
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Post by Copy of Tune on Aug 11, 2007 20:29:24 GMT -5
Nearer, My God--- I love this Hymn The verse was written by British actress, dramatic poet and Unitarian hymn writer Sarah Flower Adams (1805-1848) at her home in Sunnybank, Loughton, Essex, England, in 1841. In the United Kingdom, the hymn is usually performed to the 1861 tune "Horbury" by John Bacchus d**es, while in the rest of the world, it is usually performed to the 1856 tune "Bethany" by American composer Lowell Mason. Methodists prefer the tune "Propior Deo" (Nearer to God), written by Sir Arthur Sullivan (of Gilbert and Sullivan) in 1872. Sullivan also wrote a second setting of the hymn to a tune referred to as "St. Edmund", and there are other versions, including one referred to as "Liverpool" by John Roberts.www.letgodbetrue.com/worship/songs/nearer-my-god-to-thee.htmMetre is to "Bethany" which is more common to the above Hymn. There are others which have the same metre but not like this one. Was Lowell Mason a 2x2? By the way the above singing are JW's and I think it is beautiful. Hymn 17 Wash Me From Sin Bethany
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matia
Senior Member
Posts: 242
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Post by matia on Aug 11, 2007 21:11:36 GMT -5
Hi again guest ii and all / I did not know that the discussion re the hymns touched so many / tis good that we all can have our say/ dont get me wrong , after all these years have been set free ,some of your hymns still appeal to me ./ I will give you the words of my testimony/ very simple words and you all know what the 1st line means/
Shackled by a heavy burden Under a weight of guilt and shame Then the hand of Jesus touched me Now I’m no longer the same Ch He touched me, Oh yes he touched me And Oh the joy that filled my soul Something happened and now I see He touched me and made me whole
Since I’ve met my Blessed Saviour Since He’s cleansed and made me whole I’ll never cease to praise Him I’ll shout it through Eternity Ch He touched me, Oh yes he touched me And Oh the joy that filled my soul Something happened and now I see He touched and made me whole
That's all
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 12, 2007 0:40:01 GMT -5
When glad is thine heart and the sky is clear and hope lends her strength to thy soul When vict'ry is thine and the Lord is near and clearer thou see'st the goal.... Just cling to the hand of God's dear son No matter where He leads... and mark the path 'til the journey's done With pure, and Christ-like deeds. I find myself humming that chorus very often just around the house even though I've been "out" for many years. I also *love* "In the Garden" "In Jesus' Hands" and "Give me a (tender) Heart" among many others.... M.
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Post by laurathehooker on Aug 12, 2007 6:25:43 GMT -5
Jesus trod the pathway leading unto God's right hand. You can trace His footsteps daily to the better land. It is building on the Rock and not upon the sand. Hearing and obeying Christ, the Saviour.
Jesus poured His Life out as a living sacrifice, Bore the cross in meekness and the shame He did despise. Having fellowship with God, with world no compromise, Doing that which always pleased the Father.
We must set our face like flint to go on all the way, Though the world may sneer and scoff and hinder every day. Jesus keeps His faithful ones and they will hear Him say, You have done your best for Christ, your Saviour.
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Post by guest5 on Aug 12, 2007 8:17:13 GMT -5
mjr207 - reply 46 -- That would be a super song to be in Hymns Old and New but it will never happen. He Touched Me --Yes
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matia
Senior Member
Posts: 242
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Post by matia on Aug 12, 2007 17:32:34 GMT -5
Thanks Guest 5 / Thanking you for your reply / Yes that certainly would be /I think of that lady who was blinded at birth/ I think she wrote about 8000 hymns / here are some of them I am sure you will all like to hear something about the writer of "Safe in the Arms of Jesus."
Her name is Frances Jane Crosby. She was a blind American lady, who died on February 11, 1915, at the great age of ninety-five. She wrote many of the hymns that we know so well in Sankey's various collections. The following are some of them:
"Safe in the arms of Jesus." "Rescue the perishing." "Pass me not, O Gentle Saviour." "Now just a word for Jesus." "Thou my everlasting portion." "I am Thine, O Lord, I have heard Thy voice." "To the work, to the work." "Jesus, keep me near the cross." "Only a step to Jesus." "Behold Me standing at the door." "O child of God wait patiently." "Blessed assurance." "O precious words that Jesus said." "Hold Thou my hand." "Jesus my all." "Saved by grace." "I shall know Him." What about John Newton / I love that hymn Amazing Grace
Blessings from Aotearoa
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 12, 2007 18:24:05 GMT -5
Yes, Amazing Grace is really beautiful indeed.... M.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2007 18:39:40 GMT -5
quote - "What would be your response if the Friends and Workers often used the sermons of "worldly" preachers in meetings, but rejected these preachers as fellow brethren in Christ..."
That could happen quite easily: Your words are not the final statement on who or what you are. Some people have lovely words, not backed by personal living. You can, for instance, be impressed with some of Luther's insights into "grace," yet reject the man as a world loving, hateful and vitriolic anti-Semite.
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Post by hymn No 1 on Aug 12, 2007 18:42:10 GMT -5
Hymn #1 - Tell me the story of Jesus
...was written by a non-2x2.
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Post by leery on Aug 12, 2007 18:48:47 GMT -5
I have a couple of little questions about this song copied and pasted below. I don't know the name nor the author, as the poster did not include them.
Jesus trod the pathway leading unto God's right hand. You can trace His footsteps daily to the better land. It is building on the Rock and not upon the sand. Hearing and obeying Christ, the Saviour. I believe in grace based salvation-I don't believe that there is anything I can do to get myself to heaven. I believe that God chooses and grants. Now, I do work for reward but that isn't what is meant by "the better land".
Jesus poured His Life out as a living sacrifice, Bore the cross in meekness and the shame He did despise. Having fellowship with God, with world no compromise, Doing that which always pleased the Father.
Not much issue with this.........but remembering that Jesus did not earn his way to the Father either.
We must set our face like flint to go on all the way, Umm, I don't agree at all with this God gives the strength to go all the way WHY would we have to have our faces like flint? Where is the scripture reference to that? Though the world may sneer and scoff and hinder every day. Jesus keeps His faithful ones and they will hear Him say, You have done your best for Christ, your Saviour.
Yeah, maybe the world does, but personally, I think I have more trouble with self and satan. I'm not sure that I agree with the part about Jesus keeps His faithful ones. The chosen are kept. Even some that believers might not think are in God's hand-they are......even though they may appear unfaithful to people looking on.
I love hymns and not knowing who wrote this, when it was written, maybe a little history about the hymn.....might clarify some of the questions.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 12, 2007 20:08:24 GMT -5
I'm only going to give my opinion..not necessarily that of anyone raised in the 2x2 religion, what they believe or whathaveyou..just..mine. I do believe we are saved by grace and ALSO by following the example Jesus set for us. I don't believe we are automatically saved and we can just do as we wish and will remain that way, no. When I raised this question before, someone basically said if you love God you will not be doing those things anyway...not true, at least all the time. I do love God...no one can argue that to me. I LOVE GOD, period. That said, I am VERY far from perfect, do things I am ashamed of at times, and am very, VERY far from Jesus' perfect example. So...not always true. Good works...volunteering, being a good person, etc etc..will not get you into the kingdom of Heaven, no. But, IMO, nor will doing anything you want to do (smoking, drinking, cussing, ignoring the example of Jesus entirely.)
We must set our face like flint to go on all the way.....flint..meaning, hard/unyielding. This, to me, means we must not soften to our own wants and desires, but set our "faces" (meaning our hearts, our desires, etc) in determination to keep on doing God's will and not our own.
It is hymn number 363 in my hymn book, but no author is given. M.
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