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Post by internationalstudies on Aug 25, 2023 6:21:11 GMT -5
'Par for the course' responses again in this echo chamber! 'Squeals' when one of their own has their uncomfortable reality and 'self proclaimed' 'insanity' mentioned! Double standard and hypocrisy here? Oh no, no, no! A just outpouring of 'righteous indignation' against a vile sinner! Now watch the next outpouring of adulation!
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Post by jondough on Aug 25, 2023 10:52:38 GMT -5
Not sure I follow if this is the answer to my question. An honest question. Just wondering why you have come here under so many different names. I just remembered another one: "Conondrum"
I know there is a reason to go through all that trouble.
Maybe you don't care to share why you do this?
Again, just curious.
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Post by internationalstudies on Aug 25, 2023 14:22:20 GMT -5
jondough, I remember you as having decency and integrity, a rare commodity in the clique of, 'like' each other posters, on this thread.
Be impartial and unbiased (not so common here). Ask the same question of the number of other posters here. Perhaps you are not interested in that? You don't have to be!
Let several of the others explain their reasons. I'll join suit! Otherwise you are most welcome to pm me. We can discuss the matter there in a manner that is not possible in this noisy echo chamber of 'like' each other posters.
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Post by Persona non grata on Aug 25, 2023 14:57:23 GMT -5
'Par for the course' responses again in this echo chamber! 'Squeals' when one of their own has their uncomfortable reality and 'self proclaimed' 'insanity' mentioned! Double standard and hypocrisy here? Oh no, no, no! A just outpouring of 'righteous indignation' against a vile sinner! Now watch the next outpouring of adulation! TMB; an echo chamber? I hadn't considered it such but I'll take your word for it. Being a member of what can only be considered an extremely closed and insulated environment, with little or no room for voicing opposing views; you are, after all, well qualified to make such a judgment.
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Post by snow on Aug 25, 2023 15:26:54 GMT -5
jondough, I remember you as having decency and integrity, a rare commodity in the clique of, 'like' each other posters, on this thread. Be impartial and unbiased (not so common here). Ask the same question of the number of other posters here. Perhaps you are not interested in that? You don't have to be! Let several of the others explain their reasons. I'll join suit! Otherwise you are most welcome to pm me. We can discuss the matter there in a manner that is not possible in this noisy echo chamber of 'like' each other posters. I've always been snow brrr
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Post by Persona non grata on Aug 25, 2023 15:30:05 GMT -5
jondough, I remember you as having decency and integrity, a rare commodity in the clique of, 'like' each other posters, on this thread. Be impartial and unbiased (not so common here). Ask the same question of the number of other posters here. Perhaps you are not interested in that? You don't have to be! Let several of the others explain their reasons. I'll join suit! Otherwise you are most welcome to pm me. We can discuss the matter there in a manner that is not possible in this noisy echo chamber of 'like' each other posters. I too remember JD as a decent person of principles. In the absence of a direct answer from internationalstudies, I'll take the liberty of explaining a few possible reasons: - Posting on TMB as a worker is not an easy task; workers (as self proclaimed Servants of God) are often held to a higher moral standard, and it's not always easy to live up to expectations. Often, over time, human nature tends to show through in the tone and language of posts. When this happens it can be tempting to "wipe the slate clean" and start again. - Another reason may be that a poster identity becomes "over exposed" and fellow workers and friends become aware of the true identity. When this happens, and especially when it causes discouragement to friends and fellow workers, one may find it necessary to make a sudden retreat (sometimes to the extent of deleting all previous posts). For myself, I hope InterStud sticks around. Although many of his posts don't reflect well on the ministry, I stand by my belief that he does play a usefull role, and he certainly ads colour to the board.
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Post by snow on Aug 25, 2023 15:47:57 GMT -5
jondough, I remember you as having decency and integrity, a rare commodity in the clique of, 'like' each other posters, on this thread. Be impartial and unbiased (not so common here). Ask the same question of the number of other posters here. Perhaps you are not interested in that? You don't have to be! Let several of the others explain their reasons. I'll join suit! Otherwise you are most welcome to pm me. We can discuss the matter there in a manner that is not possible in this noisy echo chamber of 'like' each other posters. I too remember JD as a decent person of principles. In the absence of a direct answer from internationalstudies, I'll take the liberty of explaining a few possible reasons: - Posting on TMB as a worker is not an easy task; workers (as self proclaimed Servants of God) are often held to a higher moral standard, and it's not always easy to live up to expectations. Often, over time, human nature tends to show through in the tone and language of posts. When this happens it can be tempting to "wipe the slate clean" and start again. - Another reason may be that a poster identity becomes "over exposed" and fellow workers and friends become aware of the true identity. When this happens, and especially when it causes discouragement to friends and fellow workers, one may find it necessary to make a sudden retreat (sometimes to the extent of deleting all previous posts). For myself, I hope InterStud sticks around. Although many of his posts don't reflect well on the ministry, I stand by my belief that he does play a usefull role, and he certainly ads colour to the board. Deleting all your previous posts would be quite the task. You would have to delete all of them one by one. And you can't delete posts where you have been quoted. I think IS wants to be known to us. At least under this name. He's one of the few workers that are brave enough to post here and even though I am not used to his style as a worker, I too hope he stays.
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Post by fixit on Aug 25, 2023 16:32:54 GMT -5
In the absence of a direct answer from internationalstudies, I'll take the liberty of explaining a few possible reasons: - Posting on TMB as a worker is not an easy task; workers (as self proclaimed Servants of God) are often held to a higher moral standard, and it's not always easy to live up to expectations. Often, over time, human nature tends to show through in the tone and language of posts. When this happens it can be tempting to "wipe the slate clean" and start again. - Another reason may be that a poster identity becomes "over exposed" and fellow workers and friends become aware of the true identity. When this happens, and especially when it causes discouragement to friends and fellow workers, one may find it necessary to make a sudden retreat (sometimes to the extent of deleting all previous posts). - Another reason may be that each persona has different views. Noels argued for weeks against the need to remove some sex offenders from meetings while our resident TMB worker now supports the removal of those same sex offenders.
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Post by Pragmatic on Aug 25, 2023 22:32:17 GMT -5
In the absence of a direct answer from internationalstudies , I'll take the liberty of explaining a few possible reasons: - Posting on TMB as a worker is not an easy task; workers (as self proclaimed Servants of God) are often held to a higher moral standard, and it's not always easy to live up to expectations. Often, over time, human nature tends to show through in the tone and language of posts. When this happens it can be tempting to "wipe the slate clean" and start again. - Another reason may be that a poster identity becomes "over exposed" and fellow workers and friends become aware of the true identity. When this happens, and especially when it causes discouragement to friends and fellow workers, one may find it necessary to make a sudden retreat (sometimes to the extent of deleting all previous posts). - Another reason may be that each persona has different views. Noels argued for weeks against the need to remove some sex offenders from meetings while our resident TMB worker now supports the removal of those same sex offenders. That was the impression I got, but not wasn't bothered enough to verify. I am glad I wasn't the only one to think that.
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Post by chuck on Aug 26, 2023 0:51:50 GMT -5
It is the complete opposite of your expectations, but the results show what theirs fundementally were sadly, and that is control at any cost...... The cost is very high actually. Members of the organisation are pulled in opposite directions.... 1. Those who are led by the hierarchy. 2. Those who are led by the spirit of God. Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Yes very sad, nothing wrong with organisations until they become more important than the individual.
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Post by chuck on Aug 26, 2023 5:02:56 GMT -5
Yet again TBTA has done what the head honchos would not voluntarily. The propaganda letter is good for lighting fires and nothing else. Bunch of liars.
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Post by fixit on Aug 26, 2023 14:51:03 GMT -5
The cost is very high actually. Members of the organisation are pulled in opposite directions.... 1. Those who are led by the hierarchy. 2. Those who are led by the spirit of God. Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Yes very sad, nothing wrong with organisations until they become more important than the individual. It's worse than organisations becoming more important than the individual. Organisations can even become more important than God. "When you prefess, it means you have accepted the Ministry... ...And when you are baptised, it means the Ministry has accepted you." Can it get more blatant than that? Possibly... What do we need God for?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 26, 2023 23:52:53 GMT -5
So why are New zealand / Australian overseers inviting a keynote speaker to conventions who covers up child sexual abuse? It's a good question - in the light of Overseer's letter you would expect the issue to be under investigation. Perhaps there will be further statements which follow on from the paragraph in their letter "We will provide additional details for managing visiting workers and child safe guidelines for convention prior to conventions starting this year. We will regularly update you as we progress". I haven't seen any further updates since the 1 July 2023 letter. Perhaps it's been referred to the 16-person Advisory Committee that's been mentioned on this thread. Ross, all of these workers should be viewed with suspicion. Whether it appears to be someone as innocent looking as Flowerday or someone like the American worker Atcheson, they all know something about criminal activity within the church and all have had some part in shuffling it under the carpet. Because of that not one of them would pass the good character test at the border and ought to be turned back by immigration. And the latest on Goldsack. Is he getting the friends version of a 501?
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Post by Pragmatic on Aug 27, 2023 0:09:23 GMT -5
I am just catching up on happenings - this 16 person committee; are they all members of the church?
If so, wouldn't that be like the Police investigating their own conduct after a shooting?
What is the story with this Atcheson guy? Does he have a past, or has he been guilty of hiding/moving perpetrators?
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Post by fixit on Aug 27, 2023 0:46:29 GMT -5
I am just catching up on happenings - this 16 person committee; are they all members of the church? If so, wouldn't that be like the Police investigating their own conduct after a shooting? What is the story with this Atcheson guy? Does he have a past, or has he been guilty of hiding/moving perpetrators? This is what we've been told about the advisory group...
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Post by Ross.Bowden on Aug 27, 2023 2:28:03 GMT -5
It's a good question - in the light of Overseer's letter you would expect the issue to be under investigation. Perhaps there will be further statements which follow on from the paragraph in their letter "We will provide additional details for managing visiting workers and child safe guidelines for convention prior to conventions starting this year. We will regularly update you as we progress". I haven't seen any further updates since the 1 July 2023 letter. Perhaps it's been referred to the 16-person Advisory Committee that's been mentioned on this thread. Ross, all of these workers should be viewed with suspicion. Whether it appears to be someone as innocent looking as Flowerday or someone like the American worker Atcheson, they all know something about criminal activity within the church and all have had some part in shuffling it under the carpet. Because of that not one of them would pass the good character test at the border and ought to be turned back by immigration. And the latest on Goldsack. Is he getting the friends version of a 501? Jim Atcheson is no longer coming to Australian/NZ Conventions - invitation withdrawn. TBTA wrote a couple of letters to the Overseers and no doubt a number of other people did. Max is headed back to New Zealand. Haven't heard who the new Overseers for WA is yet. Peter Morrison has gone across there for a few weeks I understand - there are just a handful of male workers in WA. Peter M was in the middle of the mess in Sri Lanka - didn't treat people well at all. So will be interesting to see what transpires.
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jwatt
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Post by jwatt on Aug 27, 2023 3:02:04 GMT -5
Ross, all of these workers should be viewed with suspicion. Whether it appears to be someone as innocent looking as Flowerday or someone like the American worker Atcheson, they all know something about criminal activity within the church and all have had some part in shuffling it under the carpet. Because of that not one of them would pass the good character test at the border and ought to be turned back by immigration. And the latest on Goldsack. Is he getting the friends version of a 501? Jim Atcheson is no longer coming to Australian/NZ Conventions - invitation withdrawn. TBTA wrote a couple of letters to the Overseers and no doubt a number of other people did. Max is headed back to New Zealand. Haven't heard who the new Overseers for WA is yet. Peter Morrison has gone across there for a few weeks I understand - there are just a handful of male workers in WA. Peter M was in the middle of the mess in Sri Lanka - didn't treat people well at all. So will be interesting to see what transpires. Lots of good news. Things starting to happen as workers forced to change their ideas with help from The Brave Truth Australia. Well done!
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Post by Pragmatic on Aug 27, 2023 4:59:40 GMT -5
Jim Atcheson is no longer coming to Australian/NZ Conventions - invitation withdrawn. TBTA wrote a couple of letters to the Overseers and no doubt a number of other people did. Max is headed back to New Zealand. Haven't heard who the new Overseers for WA is yet. Peter Morrison has gone across there for a few weeks I understand - there are just a handful of male workers in WA. Peter M was in the middle of the mess in Sri Lanka - didn't treat people well at all. So will be interesting to see what transpires. Lots of good news. Things starting to happen as workers forced to change their ideas with help from The Brave Truth Australia. Well done! This is good news. I did some sussing this afternoon, and could not see why Atcheson should have been invited. I have a bit of an issue with some of these guys tripping around the world on some poor widow's "last mite", especially when their CV might be somewhat tainted.
I only know one side of the Peter M Sri Lanka issues, and it would be interesting to know the other side. But on the surface of it, his treatment of some of the folk there was not becoming of a man of God. I understand too, that he doesn't smell of Roses in Queensland either.
Full credit to TBTA
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Post by Ross.Bowden on Aug 27, 2023 23:34:32 GMT -5
Lots of good news. Things starting to happen as workers forced to change their ideas with help from The Brave Truth Australia. Well done! This is good news. I did some sussing this afternoon, and could not see why Atcheson should have been invited. I have a bit of an issue with some of these guys tripping around the world on some poor widow's "last mite", especially when their CV might be somewhat tainted. I only know one side of the Peter M Sri Lanka issues, and it would be interesting to know the other side. But on the surface of it, his treatment of some of the folk there was not becoming of a man of God. I understand too, that he doesn't smell of Roses in Queensland either. Full credit to TBTA
Yes, as I recall Peter M had upset quite a few people in Sri Lanka in 2015/2016 - some details on this link www.tellingthetruth.info/history_divisions/srilanka.php#morrisonIn terms of context, PM came from Queensland where it was standard fare at that time to stand people down if they married an outsider - so no surprise that those rules were also applied in Sri Lanka. However, as people were stood down for marrying outsiders, if you were a child sex offender you were welcome to come to meetings and take full part - no questions asked. Garry P's response (which cc'd in Peter M) is no surprise - it has been the norm in Australia for many years that if you criticise a worker's decisions in writing you get back a pretty terse response which is designed to strike fear in the mind of the reader that they are in danger of losing out eternally.
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Post by Pragmatic on Aug 28, 2023 3:04:14 GMT -5
Thanks for that Ross. It's all about control, for some of these miscreants.
It seems like some of the Caucasian workers have been guilty of a miniature version of colonisation when it comes to some third world countries, and try to impose western traditions onto their culture. Doesn't work.
I am reminded of the dilemma the Methodists faced in Fiji. The Young men would be engaged to be married, but already becoming sterile due to the effects of Kava. The church had to look the other way if kids were born out of wedlock, otherwise, they'd have had no members, and certainly no reproductive base to grow from.
Another minister learned the hard way about not touching the head of a chief. His sandals are in a museum close to Suva, and were about all that remained after he was boiled in the pot.
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Post by Ross.Bowden on Sept 8, 2023 2:48:51 GMT -5
Just a brief update. The Brave Truth Hotline opened on 13 July (8 weeks ago) and in addition to many calls, people have also made contact via email, messenger and the 'contact form' on the website. So far, over 55 perpetrators have been confidentially reported - some have already been through the courts, but many have not. We appreciate everyone who has made contact so far. Our goal is to support victim-survivors and prevent further abuse. Jillian and the team are working with law enforcement, friends, workers, former members, and non-members to address the crisis of child sexual abuse and sexual abuse in the fellowship. We will do whatever we can to support victims and help bring healing and justice. As a reminder: Hotline: 0489 994 566 (Australia) or if calling from New Zealand 00 61 489 994 566. Leave a message at any time. Email: support@thebravetruthaustralia.com Website: www.thebravetruthaustralia.com
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Post by Pragmatic on Sept 8, 2023 3:21:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the update Ross. Jillian and the team are obviously doing a splendid job, and over 55 is over 55 too many. Given data I have seen in this country (non-church related), one perpetrator usually means more than one victim. If you were to do the math on data I have seen, you could fill a mission hall with victims, based on 55 perpetrators.
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jwatt
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Post by jwatt on Sept 9, 2023 0:37:42 GMT -5
Just a brief update. The Brave Truth Hotline opened on 13 July (8 weeks ago) and in addition to many calls, people have also made contact via email, messenger and the 'contact form' on the website. So far, over 55 perpetrators have been confidentially reported - some have already been through the courts, but many have not. We appreciate everyone who has made contact so far. Our goal is to support victim-survivors and prevent further abuse. Jillian and the team are working with law enforcement, friends, workers, former members, and non-members to address the crisis of child sexual abuse and sexual abuse in the fellowship. We will do whatever we can to support victims and help bring healing and justice. As a reminder: Hotline: 0489 994 566 (Australia) or if calling from New Zealand 00 61 489 994 566. Leave a message at any time. Email: support@thebravetruthaustralia.com Website: www.thebravetruthaustralia.comThanks for update. The team are doing a great job
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Post by giuseppe on Oct 2, 2023 3:03:43 GMT -5
Just a brief update. The Brave Truth Hotline opened on 13 July (8 weeks ago) and in addition to many calls, people have also made contact via email, messenger and the 'contact form' on the website. So far, over 55 perpetrators have been confidentially reported - some have already been through the courts, but many have not. We appreciate everyone who has made contact so far. Our goal is to support victim-survivors and prevent further abuse. Jillian and the team are working with law enforcement, friends, workers, former members, and non-members to address the crisis of child sexual abuse and sexual abuse in the fellowship. We will do whatever we can to support victims and help bring healing and justice. As a reminder: Hotline: 0489 994 566 (Australia) or if calling from New Zealand 00 61 489 994 566. Leave a message at any time. Email: support@thebravetruthaustralia.com Website: www.thebravetruthaustralia.comThanks for update. The team are doing a great job [br Interesting- Florida USA has just brought in death penalty for child rape from 1 October.
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Post by fixit on Oct 2, 2023 4:11:53 GMT -5
Thanks for update. The team are doing a great job Interesting- Florida USA has just brought in death penalty for child rape from 1 October. Perhaps workers and friends will take it seriously now?
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jwatt
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Post by jwatt on Oct 2, 2023 12:32:17 GMT -5
Interesting- Florida USA has just brought in death penalty for child rape from 1 October. Perhaps workers and friends will take it seriously now? Hope so, but won't hold my breath!
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jwatt
Junior Member
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Post by jwatt on Oct 2, 2023 12:33:11 GMT -5
Interesting- Florida USA has just brought in death penalty for child rape from 1 October. Perhaps workers and friends will take it seriously now? Interesting aye!
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Post by fixit on Oct 2, 2023 14:04:39 GMT -5
Perhaps workers and friends will take it seriously now? Interesting aye! Yes, a System-Minded highly respected individual on death row would have to be a wake-up call.
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