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Post by fixit on Jul 14, 2023 17:05:26 GMT -5
I wonder how ewesful using this metaphor actually is to the greater concern. I too wonder what throwing more religiosity at the problem will achieve. No one with the love of God in their heart would abuse a child. It's just not possible. Yet so many children have been abused by those who use their religious charisma to groom those around them. Quoting scripture could be more triggering than useful.
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Post by guest8 on Jul 14, 2023 17:39:43 GMT -5
IMO. At this present time, re going forward......Workers need to stand up at conventions and special mtgs and speak the rational facts re the matter. Treat it as ' Health and safety' matter, to be conveyed. Leave spirituality out of it. Stop quoting Peter and Paul and Isiah.
When a worker anounces the fire exit, they don't quote the bible. Everything in its place for heavens sake! ,
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 17:44:43 GMT -5
I wonder how ewesful using this metaphor actually is to the greater concern. I too wonder what throwing more religiosity at the problem will achieve. No one with the love of God in their heart would abuse a child. It's just not possible. Yet so many children have been abused by those who use their religious charisma to groom those around them. Quoting scripture could be more triggering than useful. Committing any sin is the same, no love of God....
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Post by fixit on Jul 14, 2023 18:06:44 GMT -5
I too wonder what throwing more religiosity at the problem will achieve. No one with the love of God in their heart would abuse a child. It's just not possible. Yet so many children have been abused by those who use their religious charisma to groom those around them. Quoting scripture could be more triggering than useful. Committing any sin is the same, no love of God.... Sin is not the issue when it comes to child protection. We put a guard around the fireplace and keep boiling water well away from children. In the same way we have a duty as an organisation to keep child molesters well away from children. Secular organisations have the same duty of care.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 18:16:01 GMT -5
Committing any sin is the same, no love of God.... Sin is not the issue when it comes to child protection. We put a guard around the fireplace and keep boiling water well away from children. In the same way we have a duty as an organisation to keep child molesters well away from children. Secular organisations have the same duty of care. When you bring God into it that clearly makes it a sin or do you think God doesn't think it's a sin...not even a good try...
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Post by fixit on Jul 14, 2023 18:39:13 GMT -5
Sin is not the issue when it comes to child protection. We put a guard around the fireplace and keep boiling water well away from children. In the same way we have a duty as an organisation to keep child molesters well away from children. Secular organisations have the same duty of care. When you bring God into it that clearly makes it a sin or do you think God doesn't think it's a sin...not even a good try... I think God would say we have a duty as an organisation to keep child molesters well away from children.
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Post by guest8 on Jul 14, 2023 18:41:29 GMT -5
I too wonder what throwing more religiosity at the problem will achieve. No one with the love of God in their heart would abuse a child. It's just not possible. Yet so many children have been abused by those who use their religious charisma to groom those around them. Quoting scripture could be more triggering than useful. Committing any sin is the same, no love of God.... So, do 'you' put yourself on the 'same' level as a CSA abuser. I may of missed something but your words leave one wondering is Wally sin free? You have the love of God?
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Post by SharonArnold on Jul 14, 2023 18:41:39 GMT -5
I wonder how ewesful using this metaphor actually is to the greater concern. I too wonder what throwing more religiosity at the problem will achieve. No one with the love of God in their heart would abuse a child. It's just not possible. Yet so many children have been abused by those who use their religious charisma to groom those around them. Quoting scripture could be more triggering than useful. The Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn quote of “The line between good and evil runs not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either — but right through every human heart.” has been a guiding principle of my life. Indeed, if you think of the worst sins a human being can commit, I have looked within myself, and found that, yes, I am quite capable of most of those. But, the one thing I absolutely cannot conceive, in the very worst incarnation of myself, is doing anything to harm a child for my own personal gratification. When I think of children, any child, I cannot imagine anything other than being protective. I am absolutely, completely, no saint, yet I cannot imagine a sexual thought entering an adult's mind in conjunction with the thought of a child. I just got back from watching the "The Sound of Freedom" movie. Absolutely excellent, even if it is uncomfortable to unflinchingly look at the surrounding issues. I still ask why some human beings are seemingly able to cross this unfathomable barrier. I watched a Jordan Peterson interview the other day with Tim Ballard and the actor who portrayed him in the movie. They touched on this issue, though I was barely able to take it in. I will watch it again to see if I can consolidate it more into my world view.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 19:28:53 GMT -5
When you bring God into it that clearly makes it a sin or do you think God doesn't think it's a sin...not even a good try... I think God would say we have a duty as an organisation to keep child molesters well away from children. No doubt...nice dodge though...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 19:33:42 GMT -5
Committing any sin is the same, no love of God.... So, do 'you' put yourself on the 'same' level as a CSA abuser. I may of missed something but your words leave one wondering is Wally sin free? You have the love of God? As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question.
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Post by guest8 on Jul 14, 2023 19:46:34 GMT -5
Therein lies the problem. Thanks for confirming.
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Post by guest8 on Jul 14, 2023 19:56:29 GMT -5
One cares enough about survivors and is interested in changing ingrained attitudes and religious beliefs, so that going forward there will be less survivors of CSA to help and support.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jul 14, 2023 20:05:04 GMT -5
So, do 'you' put yourself on the 'same' level as a CSA abuser. I may of missed something but your words leave one wondering is Wally sin free? You have the love of God? As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question. What about the sin of wearing pants, going to a movie, or not having your hair in a bun? Messing around with another consenting adult is a whole different mindset than abusing a child. I do not buy this for a second. Not ever. Anyone saying that "Sin is sin" is trying to sidestep the egregiousness of their own. The blasphemy one I am still contemplating. The one thing I am sure of is that anyone who speaks of this with confidence is full of S#$%.
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Post by neighbour on Jul 14, 2023 20:47:31 GMT -5
As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question. What about the sin of wearing pants, going to a movie, or not having your hair in a bun? Messing around with another consenting adult is a whole different mindset than abusing a child. I do not buy this for a second. Not ever. Anyone saying that "Sin is sin" is trying to sidestep the egregiousness of their own. The blasphemy one I am still contemplating. The one thing I am sure of is that anyone who speaks of this with confidence is full of S#$%. We can tell from the Old Testament Law that God doesn't view all sins equally. All sorts of sins had various degrees of punishment or remedy. I understand where the idea comes from ("For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.") But the point of that is that the Law made nothing perfect, not that all sins are equally egregious before God. The biggest difference it makes it how involved repentance is. Zacchaeus' repentance involved reimbursing his victims with treble damages. Repentance from CSA is not merely a matter of saying "my victims need to repent of their unforgiveness".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 21:21:26 GMT -5
What about the sin of wearing pants, going to a movie, or not having your hair in a bun? Messing around with another consenting adult is a whole different mindset than abusing a child. I do not buy this for a second. Not ever. Anyone saying that "Sin is sin" is trying to sidestep the egregiousness of their own. The blasphemy one I am still contemplating. The one thing I am sure of is that anyone who speaks of this with confidence is full of S#$%. We can tell from the Old Testament Law that God doesn't view all sins equally. All sorts of sins had various degrees of punishment or remedy. I understand where the idea comes from ("For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.") But the point of that is that the Law made nothing perfect, not that all sins are equally egregious before God. The biggest difference it makes it how involved repentance is. Zacchaeus' repentance involved reimbursing his victims with treble damages. Repentance from CSA is not merely a matter of saying "my victims need to repent of their unforgiveness". Despite different punishments its ultimately all the same destination...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 21:28:56 GMT -5
As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question. What about the sin of wearing pants, going to a movie, or not having your hair in a bun? Messing around with another consenting adult is a whole different mindset than abusing a child. I do not buy this for a second. Not ever. Anyone saying that "Sin is sin" is trying to sidestep the egregiousness of their own. The blasphemy one I am still contemplating. The one thing I am sure of is that anyone who speaks of this with confidence is full of S#$%. Men's clothes on women is recorded as sin. Not so much movies or buns, that's manmade. If you know of scripture that says different, please post I'll look at it... If one can't have confidence in ones understanding in what God/Christ/HS has said to us about right or wrong, that's all Satan needs to work his way into one's life. Adam and Eve are the perfect example of this. No sheet intended.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 21:33:13 GMT -5
As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question. What about the sin of wearing pants, going to a movie, or not having your hair in a bun? Messing around with another consenting adult is a whole different mindset than abusing a child. I do not buy this for a second. Not ever. Anyone saying that "Sin is sin" is trying to sidestep the egregiousness of their own. The blasphemy one I am still contemplating. The one thing I am sure of is that anyone who speaks of this with confidence is full of S#$%. Men's clothes on women is recorded as sin, not so much movies and buns those would be manmade we should try and separate the two. If one cannot have confidence in ones understanding of what God/Christ/HS have said concerning right and wrong(sin) that's all Satan needs to work his way into one's life. Adam and Eve are a perfect example of this. No sheet intended...
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Post by Admin on Jul 14, 2023 22:19:38 GMT -5
For posts on this general topic, from other threads.
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Post by fixit on Jul 14, 2023 22:34:22 GMT -5
What about the sin of wearing pants, going to a movie, or not having your hair in a bun? Messing around with another consenting adult is a whole different mindset than abusing a child. I do not buy this for a second. Not ever. Anyone saying that "Sin is sin" is trying to sidestep the egregiousness of their own. The blasphemy one I am still contemplating. The one thing I am sure of is that anyone who speaks of this with confidence is full of S#$%. Men's clothes on women is recorded as sin, not so much movies and buns those would be manmade we should try and separate the two. If one cannot have confidence in ones understanding of what God/Christ/HS have said concerning right and wrong(sin) that's all Satan needs to work his way into one's life. Adam and Eve are a perfect example of this. No sheet intended... Do you obey everything else in the chapter?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 23:45:54 GMT -5
Men's clothes on women is recorded as sin, not so much movies and buns those would be manmade we should try and separate the two. If one cannot have confidence in ones understanding of what God/Christ/HS have said concerning right and wrong(sin) that's all Satan needs to work his way into one's life. Adam and Eve are a perfect example of this. No sheet intended... Do you obey everything else in the chapter? It's called discernment sherlock. When was the last time you kept an ox for your neighbor until he came looking for it? Since Sunday morning is just hours away I suggest you get to studying so you can fake out those in your meeting once more.
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Post by guest8 on Jul 14, 2023 23:58:26 GMT -5
It needs to be said - That is a disgusting thing to say, professing man from Washington state. I hope with the many new readers here on TMB as of late, there are people in your church who recognise who you are. If they are reading, no-one appears to agree with your posts ( except sometimes 1) and that speaks volumes re the level of respect you must have. You have no room as a 'so called professing christian', to use the word fake to another in your church.
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Post by fixit on Jul 15, 2023 0:49:48 GMT -5
Do you obey everything else in the chapter? It's called discernment sherlock. When was the last time you kept an ox for your neighbor until he came looking for it? Since Sunday morning is just hours away I suggest you get to studying so you can fake out those in your meeting once more. How is the following scripture policed where you live? Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is discovered lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman as well as the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel. 23 “If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, 24 you shall bring both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help in the town and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. 25 “But if the man meets the engaged woman in the open country and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 You shall do nothing to the young woman; the young woman has not committed an offense punishable by death, because this case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor. 27 Since he found her in the open country, the engaged woman may have cried for help, but there was no one to rescue her. 28 “If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged and seizes her and lies with her, and they are discovered, 29 the man who lay with her shall give fifty shekels of silver to the young woman’s father, and she shall become his wife. Because he violated her, he shall not be permitted to divorce her as long as he lives.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 2:22:39 GMT -5
It's called discernment sherlock. When was the last time you kept an ox for your neighbor until he came looking for it? Since Sunday morning is just hours away I suggest you get to studying so you can fake out those in your meeting once more. How is the following scripture policed where you live? Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is discovered lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman as well as the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel. 23 “If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, 24 you shall bring both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help in the town and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. 25 “But if the man meets the engaged woman in the open country and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 You shall do nothing to the young woman; the young woman has not committed an offense punishable by death, because this case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor. 27 Since he found her in the open country, the engaged woman may have cried for help, but there was no one to rescue her. 28 “If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged and seizes her and lies with her, and they are discovered, 29 the man who lay with her shall give fifty shekels of silver to the young woman’s father, and she shall become his wife. Because he violated her, he shall not be permitted to divorce her as long as he lives. Discernment sherlock. Did you miss where Christ ended stoning for sins? Did he say it still wasn't a sin even though no more stoning? Did God at any time say he would defer to the secular term crime over sin? Violent murders may be an exception for the stoning thing which is today's modern firearm.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 2:42:33 GMT -5
It needs to be said - That is a disgusting thing to say, professing man from Washington state. I hope with the many new readers here on TMB as of late, there are people in your church who recognise who you are. If they are reading, no-one appears to agree with your posts ( except sometimes 1) and that speaks volumes re the level of respect you must have. You have no room as a 'so called professing christian', to use the word fake to another in your church. We know all about your fake indignations and outrages from before, not too worried what you think or really any downunder like you or fixit for that manner. Howitis was pretty cool though. Why would you lie to justify your rant? Just took a quick glance back to April there appears to be more than 1 person liking my posts and it isn't your pal Nathan either and I remember a couple times you liking a post or two of mine are you the "1"? Are you a score keeper or something? Your definition of respect isn't something to be desired and I'm glad I'm not included in it. Being emotional rarely yields facts for you. Hilarious yet slightly disturbing.... Have a good day in your garden though...
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Post by fixit on Jul 15, 2023 3:10:24 GMT -5
Discernment sherlock. Did you miss where Christ ended stoning for sins? Did he say it still wasn't a sin even though no more stoning? Did God at any time say he would defer to the secular term crime over sin? Violent murders may be an exception for the stoning thing which is today's modern firearm. Read what Jesus said to the bible literalists and what the apostle Paul wrote about legalism.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 3:21:18 GMT -5
Discernment sherlock. Did you miss where Christ ended stoning for sins? Did he say it still wasn't a sin even though no more stoning? Did God at any time say he would defer to the secular term crime over sin? Violent murders may be an exception for the stoning thing which is today's modern firearm. Read what Jesus said to the bible literalists and what the apostle Paul wrote about legalism. I see, you have no understanding of what those terms mean. Throwing them around like you do and quite often by the way has gone beyond hilarious into pathetic. You should study them again or probably for the first time before spewing.
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Post by fixit on Jul 15, 2023 4:12:36 GMT -5
Read what Jesus said to the bible literalists and what the apostle Paul wrote about legalism. I see, you have no understanding of what those terms mean. Throwing them around like you do and quite often by the way has gone beyond hilarious into pathetic. You should study them again or probably for the first time before spewing. This thread is about "Stamping out CSA from the F&W church". Your talk about sin is no help with protecting the fellowship's children.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 6:55:32 GMT -5
I see, you have no understanding of what those terms mean. Throwing them around like you do and quite often by the way has gone beyond hilarious into pathetic. You should study them again or probably for the first time before spewing. This thread is about "Stamping out CSA from the F&W church". Your talk about sin is no help with protecting the fellowship's children. Identifying what's right or wrong certainly does. You choose a secular approach and term I choose to use the biblical term. You are whining about semantics, which does nothing to protect the children.
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