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Post by getreal on Jul 15, 2023 9:32:35 GMT -5
So, do 'you' put yourself on the 'same' level as a CSA abuser. I may of missed something but your words leave one wondering is Wally sin free? You have the love of God? As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question. Its a typo, so I imagine you meant to say “if I have Christ…”. Its a big if for anyone to contemplate. Anyway, my only thought here it is a big question if anyone who commits some “sins” as you call them like csa or equivalent evils is at all capable of truly repenting. Can a heart, soul, mind capable of such things ever be capable of feeling remorse. They might know how to appear or say the right words at the right time, go through the motions, stand up in a meeting, etc If you believe the Bible God is capable of forgiving such evils, but it is a big question if such an evil/twisted/mind sick person could ever get to a place in their heart and soul where true repentance is possible. So not all sins can be forgiven. Not all sinners.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 10:05:12 GMT -5
As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question. Its a typo, so I imagine you meant to say “if I have Christ…”. Its a big if for anyone to contemplate. Anyway, my only thought here it is a big question if anyone who commits some “sins” as you call them like csa or equivalent evils is at all capable of truly repenting. Can a heart, soul, mind capable of such things ever be capable of feeling remorse. They might know how to appear or say the right words at the right time, go through the motions, stand up in a meeting, etc If you believe the Bible God is capable of forgiving such evils, but it is a big question if such an evil/twisted/mind sick person could ever get to a place in their heart and soul where true repentance is possible. So not all sins can be forgiven. Not all sinners. The question was directed at me, I'm a believer so I used "I Have" not "if I have". You wouldn't really know what God knows if they really repent, right? It goes without saying if they don't really repent there is no forgiveness not sure why that would even be a question...Isaiah 55 might be helpful...
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Post by snow on Jul 15, 2023 13:42:19 GMT -5
What about the sin of wearing pants, going to a movie, or not having your hair in a bun? Messing around with another consenting adult is a whole different mindset than abusing a child. I do not buy this for a second. Not ever. Anyone saying that "Sin is sin" is trying to sidestep the egregiousness of their own. The blasphemy one I am still contemplating. The one thing I am sure of is that anyone who speaks of this with confidence is full of S#$%. Men's clothes on women is recorded as sin. Not so much movies or buns, that's manmade. If you know of scripture that says different, please post I'll look at it... If one can't have confidence in ones understanding in what God/Christ/HS has said to us about right or wrong, that's all Satan needs to work his way into one's life. Adam and Eve are the perfect example of this. No sheet intended. Back when the OT was written, even the NT, men and women didn't dress very differently. They wore robes that reached the ground for the most part.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jul 15, 2023 14:01:36 GMT -5
Men's clothes on women is recorded as sin. Not so much movies or buns, that's manmade. If you know of scripture that says different, please post I'll look at it... If one can't have confidence in ones understanding in what God/Christ/HS has said to us about right or wrong, that's all Satan needs to work his way into one's life. Adam and Eve are the perfect example of this. No sheet intended. Back when the OT was written, even the NT, men and women didn't dress very differently. They wore robes that reached the ground for the most part. Yeah, so an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-wise entity is going to care if you bought your clothing from the Mens section in the store vs the Womens? And your eternal destination is predicated on this if you don't see the error your ways and fail to repent? All while malevolence is stalking and harming the most innocent amongst us? I think not.
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Post by fixit on Jul 15, 2023 16:13:46 GMT -5
So, do 'you' put yourself on the 'same' level as a CSA abuser. I may of missed something but your words leave one wondering is Wally sin free? You have the love of God? As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question. An even better question is.....does @wally think CSA is any worse than calling his brother fixit a fool?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 16:35:07 GMT -5
Men's clothes on women is recorded as sin. Not so much movies or buns, that's manmade. If you know of scripture that says different, please post I'll look at it... If one can't have confidence in ones understanding in what God/Christ/HS has said to us about right or wrong, that's all Satan needs to work his way into one's life. Adam and Eve are the perfect example of this. No sheet intended. Back when the OT was written, even the NT, men and women didn't dress very differently. They wore robes that reached the ground for the most part. Traditionally it was men in Tunics and sometimes a robe and Women with a tunic or dress covered by a robe. Pants were first seen during the Persian Empire I believe, and it was for the men, mainly Warriors/Soldiers. It's online if you want to look. There were noticeable differences or God wouldn't have mentioned it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 16:35:35 GMT -5
Back when the OT was written, even the NT, men and women didn't dress very differently. They wore robes that reached the ground for the most part. Yeah, so an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-wise entity is going to care if you bought your clothing from the Mens section in the store vs the Womens? And your eternal destination is predicated on this if you don't see the error your ways and fail to repent? All while malevolence is stalking and harming the most innocent amongst us? I think not. God's Universe, Gods rules...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 17:09:45 GMT -5
As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question. An even better question is.....does @wally think CSA is any worse than calling his brother fixit a fool? You should probably talk to the workers about what fool means in the NT. You might learn something. You mean like you did here: professing.proboards.com/post/1040548professing.proboards.com/post/1043478professing.proboards.com/post/1044589professing.proboards.com/post/1053507and me here: professing.proboards.com/post/1038528Went back into last year a ways it seems you use it quite regularly compared to me. Do you think Jesus was kidding in this verse? Mat_5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Oh, right that's literalist/legalist tripe right? Do you normally prepare to lead Sunday morning meetings by coming on here and try to take lame shots at others? Clueless as usual...
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Post by SharonArnold on Jul 15, 2023 18:27:49 GMT -5
Yeah, so an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-wise entity is going to care if you bought your clothing from the Mens section in the store vs the Womens? And your eternal destination is predicated on this if you don't see the error your ways and fail to repent? All while malevolence is stalking and harming the most innocent amongst us? I think not. God's Universe, Gods rules... LOL I have no quarrel with "God's Rules". Indeed, I have been seeking to discover them, and live in alignment with them for all of my life. What I have a quarrel with is other people's interpretations of what they suppose his rules might be! And, more than that, I have a problem with other people imposing their interpretations on me!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 18:33:08 GMT -5
God's Universe, Gods rules... LOL I have no quarrel with "God's Rules". Indeed, I have been seeking to discover them, and live in alignment with them for all of my life. What I have a quarrel with is other people's interpretations of what they suppose his rules might be! And, more than that, I have a problem with other people imposing their interpretations on me! Agree....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2023 0:27:55 GMT -5
You tell lies, wally. Some in your Sunday morning meeting know this about you. Lucky for you, they love you despite your "quirks". Matissefalsegod opinion Matissefalsegod bias Matissdefalsegod lies Just helping inform others of what you missed...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2023 8:14:26 GMT -5
Matissefalsegod opinion Matissefalsegod bias Matissdefalsegod lies Just helping inform others of what you missed... IMO, you are bearing false witness against me. It is the opinion of people you go to meeting with that you are who they say you are; there is nobody else in Western Washington who fits the description you have given of yourself on TMB over the years. It is the opinion of people who have contacted me privately on TMB that you are that same person the people you go to meeting with say you are. What is it that makes you unable to acknowledge that I figured out who you are after you challenged me and doubted I ever could? Stubbornness? Cowardice? It's too bad. There is nothing shameful about the fact that this group is incredibly interconnected. IMO, you've gone full-bore hypocrite in your attacks on fixit in this thread. That, IMO, is a shame. Your delusions and obsession/stalking are your own. You have your own set of lies to deal with, might want to fix it... The little ah ha pm you sent was incorrect...you wasted 3+ years for that... Your observations and atheist based opinions lack truth and credibility... Have a great Sunday matissefalsegod...
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Post by snow on Jul 16, 2023 16:22:08 GMT -5
Back when the OT was written, even the NT, men and women didn't dress very differently. They wore robes that reached the ground for the most part. Traditionally it was men in Tunics and sometimes a robe and Women with a tunic or dress covered by a robe. Pants were first seen during the Persian Empire I believe, and it was for the men, mainly Warriors/Soldiers. It's online if you want to look. There were noticeable differences or God wouldn't have mentioned it. Or maybe men noticed it and mentioned it... But seriously, there was very little difference in how they dressed. What was the difference between men and women's clothing in biblical times? The chiton was a simple tunic garment of lighter linen, worn by both genders and all ages. Men's chitons hung to the knees, whereas women's chitons fell to their ankles. Often the chiton is shown as pleated.
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Post by snow on Jul 16, 2023 16:23:55 GMT -5
God's Universe, Gods rules... LOL I have no quarrel with "God's Rules". Indeed, I have been seeking to discover them, and live in alignment with them for all of my life. What I have a quarrel with is other people's interpretations of what they suppose his rules might be! And, more than that, I have a problem with other people imposing their interpretations on me! Exactly! And there are many many interpretations.
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Post by getreal on Jul 16, 2023 19:26:30 GMT -5
And no underwear, or pantyhose 😀. Culturally appropriate for the times. Blended in. If they were picked out of a crowd it was for different, more meaningful reasons hopefully.
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Post by passingby on Jul 16, 2023 23:32:29 GMT -5
I wonder how ewesful using this metaphor actually is to the greater concern. I too wonder what throwing more religiosity at the problem will achieve. No one with the love of God in their heart would abuse a child. It's just not possible. Yet so many children have been abused by those who use their religious charisma to groom those around them. Quoting scripture could be more triggering than useful. Apologies for stepping in on a topic that has obviously been boiling here for a long time, but as an outsider in passing, I wonder..... Has the time come that parents have to teach their kids to say NO loudly, forcefully, and physically if you have to, to sexual advances, touching, or talk. No, I don't think this is something that should be taught in or along with high school sex education, there's already too much being asked of our school teachers, beyond imo their job. We seem to have come to that belief (parents need to arm their children against) in the case of a possible abductions. Yell, scream, fight, get loud. Imo, you are never going to stop predators from trying. Trying to legislate good intentions for them has never worked. I have a feeling that this kind of approach would be one of - where do you even start? In the family is where probably some high percentage of abuse happens. But I think it's maybe time to start that conversation. I've seen more impossible things happen. Just as an aside, or something to consider, I happened to stumble across a several hour review of the case of 30+ yr old middle school teacher Mary Kay Latourneau and 12 yr old Vili Fualaau. Was it CSA or a love story. Opinions differ. Or both. It was interesting hearing the dueling professionals in court, The apparent general non concern, ever okay of Vili's parents. and is all well that ends well?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2023 23:44:59 GMT -5
And no underwear, or pantyhose 😀. Culturally appropriate for the times. Blended in. If they were picked out of a crowd it was for different, more meaningful reasons hopefully. It was called the loincloth been around since at least 5,000 years ago. Not that similar to lace undies or spiderman underwear but worked the same in principle. You are right on the modern pantyhose.
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Post by fixit on Jul 17, 2023 0:27:57 GMT -5
Just as an aside, or something to consider, I happened to stumble across a several hour review of the case of 30+ yr old middle school teacher Mary Kay Latourneau and 12 yr old Vili Fualaau. Was it CSA or a love story. Opinions differ. Or both. It was interesting hearing the dueling professionals in court, The apparent general non concern, ever okay of Vili's parents. and is all well that ends well? A 30 year old school teacher who has sex with a 12 year old is without a doubt a child abuser. It's concerning that anyone would think otherwise. She's a sick puppy to have two children to a 12 year old student. The student's schoolfriends would have mothers her age.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2023 1:23:57 GMT -5
I too wonder what throwing more religiosity at the problem will achieve. No one with the love of God in their heart would abuse a child. It's just not possible. Yet so many children have been abused by those who use their religious charisma to groom those around them. Quoting scripture could be more triggering than useful. Apologies for stepping in on a topic that has obviously been boiling here for a long time, but as an outsider in passing, I wonder..... Has the time come that parents have to teach their kids to say NO loudly, forcefully, and physically if you have to, to sexual advances, touching, or talk. No, I don't think this is something that should be taught in or along with high school sex education, there's already too much being asked of our school teachers, beyond imo their job. We seem to have come to that belief (parents need to arm their children against) in the case of a possible abductions. Yell, scream, fight, get loud. Imo, you are never going to stop predators from trying. Trying to legislate good intentions for them has never worked. I have a feeling that this kind of approach would be one of - where do you even start? In the family is where probably some high percentage of abuse happens. But I think it's maybe time to start that conversation. I've seen more impossible things happen. Just as an aside, or something to consider, I happened to stumble across a several hour review of the case of 30+ yr old middle school teacher Mary Kay Latourneau and 12 yr old Vili Fualaau. Was it CSA or a love story. Opinions differ. Or both. It was interesting hearing the dueling professionals in court, The apparent general non concern, ever okay of Vili's parents. and is all well that ends well? It's not clear who said those last two lines. Anyways that happened in my state. And we soon found out the old typical stereotypes applied. Women that do this are in love, men are just deviant perverts. Disgusting to say the least. Eventually she got out and ran to him and married him, he was over 18 by then and she had a kid or two by him? Then she died from cancer I think. Hope she bought sun screen.
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on Jul 17, 2023 13:30:46 GMT -5
I wonder how ewesful using this metaphor actually is to the greater concern. I too wonder what throwing more religiosity at the problem will achieve. No one with the love of God in their heart would abuse a child. It's just not possible. Yet so many children have been abused by those who use their religious charisma to groom those around them. Quoting scripture could be more triggering than useful. The time for using Judas or religious metaphors and scriptural examples, for me, is over. Or, was over a few months ago. This is not a Judas type issue! If that were the case, then we have a WHOLE lot of Judases to deal with! This requires something MORE than religious examples to relate to the issue at hand. The band aide needs taken completely off and it probably is to many people, and the wound completely opened and cleaned out. Right now, I fear there are still too many friends and workers who are not assessing the wound in its entirety. They are just "waiting" for the "Kingdom to be cleansed" and not doing anything active themselves to bring that about. Or, they are just looking to the workers to fix it. They are still not looking at the very bottom of the wound . There is still more dead tissue that needs debridement. Or, surgery is necessary to completely clean out the wound so that new healthy tissue can take over and grow again. If "surgery" is really required, then there needs to be anesthesia.....which in my mind means you stop what you've been doing, and you fix the problem, and don't do anything else until it's gets fixed.
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Post by snow on Jul 17, 2023 14:32:09 GMT -5
I too wonder what throwing more religiosity at the problem will achieve. No one with the love of God in their heart would abuse a child. It's just not possible. Yet so many children have been abused by those who use their religious charisma to groom those around them. Quoting scripture could be more triggering than useful. The time for using Judas or religious metaphors and scriptural examples, for me, is over. Or, was over a few months ago. This is not a Judas type issue! If that were the case, then we have a WHOLE lot of Judases to deal with! This requires something MORE than religious examples to relate to the issue at hand. The band aide needs taken completely off and it probably is to many people, and the wound completely opened and cleaned out. Right now, I fear there are still too many friends and workers who are not assessing the wound in its entirety. They are just "waiting" for the "Kingdom to be cleansed" and not doing anything active themselves to bring that about. Or, they are just looking to the workers to fix it. They are still not looking at the very bottom of the wound . There is still more dead tissue that needs debridement. Or, surgery is necessary to completely clean out the wound so that new healthy tissue can take over and grow again. If "surgery" is really required, then there needs to be anesthesia.....which in my mind means you stop what you've been doing, and you fix the problem, and don't do anything else until it's gets fixed. Completely ending the support of workers until they start cooperating would be the one thing that would work very quickly. However, you are dealing with a bunch of people that believe that to do that would be detrimental to their chances of getting into heaven. So it's not an easy thing to expect the 2x2's to do when that is their mindset. First you have to rid them of their fear of hell because they are going against the workers, not supporting God's servants and possibly leaving the only true way.
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Post by getreal on Jul 17, 2023 15:52:21 GMT -5
Yes snow and others. I think things won’t actually take a turn until everyone, all the friends and all the workers face their participation in the problem even if it’s just putting the workers on pedestals, idolizing workers, wanting an overseer all knowing king to depend on. Everyone has a hand in this house of cards. Supporting it. Giving the workers too much place, too much authority. It was a fable. A lovely dream everyone needs to wake up from and take responsibility for it and the changes needed.
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Post by snow on Jul 17, 2023 16:24:29 GMT -5
Yes snow and others. I think things won’t actually take a turn until everyone, all the friends and all the workers face their participation in the problem even if it’s just putting the workers on pedestals, idolizing workers, wanting an overseer all knowing king to depend on. Everyone has a hand in this house of cards. Supporting it. Giving the workers too much place, too much authority. It was a fable. A lovely dream everyone needs to wake up from and take responsibility for it and the changes needed. Without the foundational support (the friends) the whole house of cards craters.
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Post by fixit on Jul 18, 2023 14:42:40 GMT -5
So, do 'you' put yourself on the 'same' level as a CSA abuser. I may of missed something but your words leave one wondering is Wally sin free? You have the love of God? As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question. It would be nice to get your thoughts on whether committing CSA is a worse sin than saying "Oh, golly, gosh" when one stubbs his toe.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2023 18:33:31 GMT -5
As far as God is concerned there is no sin greater than any other (except blasphemy) we will all end up in the same place, hell. If you think an adulterer is gonna feel more righteous or better off in hell than a pedo, you are in for a big surprise. Humans rate sins more evil less evil. I have Christ anything I've ever done can be forgiven. Are you sin free would be the better question. It would be nice to get your thoughts on whether committing CSA is a worse sin than saying "Oh, golly, gosh" when one stubbs his toe. I believe I've said on several occasions here, The only thing worse than a pedo is a politician and a violent/murderer. Does that shake anything loose up in that noggin' of yours this time? Should I repeat?
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Post by fixit on Jul 18, 2023 18:36:46 GMT -5
It would be nice to get your thoughts on whether committing CSA is a worse sin than saying "Oh, golly, gosh" when one stubbs his toe. I believe I've said on several occasions here, The only thing worse than a pedo is a politician and a violent/murderer. Does that shake anything loose up in that noggin' of yours this time? Should I repeat? Yeah....when you claim that being a politician is on a par with being a child rapist then it confirms to me that you have a problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2023 18:47:05 GMT -5
I believe I've said on several occasions here, The only thing worse than a pedo is a politician and a violent/murderer. Does that shake anything loose up in that noggin' of yours this time? Should I repeat? Yeah....when you claim that being a politician is on a par with being a child rapist then it confirms to me that you have a problem. No, I said its worse scientist. It appears that didn't help you at all you should probably get your head and heart looked at.
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Post by fixit on Jul 18, 2023 20:50:35 GMT -5
Yeah....when you claim that being a politician is on a par with being a child rapist then it confirms to me that you have a problem. No, I said its worse scientist. It appears that didn't help you at all you should probably get your head and heart looked at. OK, my bad. You're saying committing CSA is not as bad as being a politician.
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