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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Feb 12, 2006 20:08:54 GMT -5
Greg lee, You are defensive of these two. Have you met them and learned of their mission? Happy, unlogged Never, ever met Gary. Have had no contact or communication with Steve since at least 1995. Maybe longer.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Feb 12, 2006 20:16:58 GMT -5
We CAN know a lot about people without their ever opening their mouth. What if you can't trust them to tell you the truth...then how do you learn the truth? PS "hisself" isn't a word. Yes, by observation one can learn certain habits and certain daily activities and certain places people go and people they meet/know. That would take a bit of time in observing to know a definite pattern or recurrent people visited, places visited, and activities kept commonly. But if I tell you something about somebody, all you know is that I told you something. You do not know at all if I told you the truth. I could be in error in my observation, if not outright repeating what I heard. How does one know the truth of something? I suppose by observation and conversation. Should I have used "himself"? Or perhaps "his self"?
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Post by Zorro on Feb 12, 2006 21:07:59 GMT -5
"Vs 6: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High
Would someone please tell me what this verse means??"
The verses describing God's people as gods (John10:34, Ps 82,etc) the word "god" means "judge or ruler".
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Post by Brick on Feb 12, 2006 21:53:31 GMT -5
I prefer a more literal translation: if we are God's children, created in his image, what will we be when we grow up? My earthly father was a human man. Now I am almost a spittin' image of him. In short, I became what he is. Jesus repeatedly encouraged us to follow him, to be like him. Why? Just so we can be super followers of Christ? Grow up. I'm not using that expression in the way it is commonly used, meaning you are being immature, but rather let us mature into a Christ creature, which now, we (speaking of myself) can't even visualize, but I know that is what God wants us to evolve into.
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Post by guest y me on Feb 12, 2006 22:02:30 GMT -5
"Vs 6: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High Would someone please tell me what this verse means??" The verses describing God's people as gods (John10:34, Ps 82,etc) the word "god" means "judge or ruler". Not exactly sure....but I like to think of us as children of God, even before we become born again.... In that our physical bodies and genetics come from our genetic human parents, our spirit is given to us by God, in the form of our first nature [i.e.:flesh]....then we see Jesus being refered to as the son of man...seems to be refering to His natural human side nature, as He also had a spirit that came from God's nature, making Him the son of God, It really seems quite clear if you think a bit on it. We then need to recognize that our human nature is not divine, even though it too came from God, thus it is essential that we be 'born again' to receive this eternal nature that pleases God, both in His Son and in us. ......otto
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Post by clarification on Feb 12, 2006 22:10:37 GMT -5
Jesus had the 'divine spirit' from the time of His birth, but we don't receive it until we are born again..
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Post by Zorro on Feb 12, 2006 22:15:17 GMT -5
"I prefer a more literal translation"
Actually "judge or ruler" is the literal translation...of the Greek. Do you have a study bible? It's invaluable.
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Post by New Age on Feb 13, 2006 7:40:07 GMT -5
Isn't this the verse the main plank in the New age platform? Can anyone tell us what is the new age take on this verse???
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Post by Brick on Feb 13, 2006 16:42:50 GMT -5
Back to Zorro: Nah. Bricks don't need 'em. They're for all you smart folks. See, I got that info without ever having to look it up. But I did, just to check your accuracy. I never trust a man in tight pants.
theos {theh'-os}
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3) spoken of the only and true God
a) refers to the things of God
b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
a) God's representative or viceregent
1) of magistrates and judges
hmmm...sounds like it means "Gods" to me.
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Post by Zorro on Feb 13, 2006 16:49:12 GMT -5
Brick, The Greek word for "gods" wasn't theos. It was <yhla. BTW: at least I'm wearing pants
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Post by Zorro on Feb 13, 2006 17:00:58 GMT -5
Here's some info from Bible.org:
The whole line reads "I say, you are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you." Jesus will pick up on the term "sons of the Most High" in 10:36, where he refers to himself as the Son of God. The psalm was understood in rabbinic circles as an attack on unjust judges who, though they have been given the title "gods" because of their quasi-divine function of exercising judgment, are just as mortal as other men..... The reason the OT judges could be called gods is because they were vehicles of the word of God (cf. 10:35). But granting that premise, Jesus deserves much more than they to be called God. He is the Word incarnate, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world to save the world (10:36). In light of the prologue to the Gospel of John, it seems this interpretation would have been most natural for the author. If it is permissible to call men "gods" because they were the vehicles of the word of God, how much more permissible is it to use the word "God" of him who is the Word of God?
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Post by tardy on Feb 13, 2006 20:44:10 GMT -5
My visit to this site is tardy, although I have read all the entries. As I have moved down through the posts, and read each one, I waited to read what Gamaliel might have said, Acts 5:34-39. “...Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought. But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.” This advice seems very appropriate and current.
The post regarding the prophets is very insightful and worthy of our consideration. For your own interest, notice the number of times that “prophet/prophets” is used in Acts, indicating that such an office was alive and active in the early church. You might like to start with Acts 13:1. (My focus in Acts is not on the many references to the Old Testament prophets, but those who were present then among the church.) Prophet- one raised up by the Holy Spirit when things were wrong who are more interested in the heart and mind of God more than the letter of things; those who set direction. In the Old Testament there are two varieties of prophets: 1) those who foretold future events, such as Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel, and 2) those like Elijah and Elisha, whose work for the most part was not to disclose future events, but to explain the present ones. They were to set forth what God’s thought was in the present acts. The prophets held distinctive place. No others could come up to them in importance.
New Age? Before I leave the site, let me give you a quote: “The New Age begins not with the breakthrough to the spirit world, though this trend is popular. The New Age begins when...people seek God first and foremost. The breakthrough to spirit world is peripheral--very, very external. The Core of the entire universe, the entire cosmos, must be reached. Then and only then has the New Age begun. Those who achieve this are new people who live in a new way. This is the New Age!!!” In this light, every person in the Bible who knew God were New Age. Think about Abraham, Moses, Daniel, David, Peter, Paul, and the list goes on and on. And, no, they were not God. God alone will always be God. It will never be otherwise. Man is created in the image and likeness of God, which might include man being created with the capacity for the Creator to express Himself through. And, yes, these people did have a direct connection with God: He spoke directly to them and they understood it was God Himself! The ministry of the holy angles was also their reality. Other parts of their realities were dreams and visions.
Thank you for your consideration of these things. Let’s open our hearts to the wonderful reality of God that with Him there can be more and more, but only if we are open. It just might be that our great God is wanting to be this to us now, in our life time. Let’s not fight against Him!
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Post by to tardy on Feb 13, 2006 23:17:09 GMT -5
What's the source of the quote?
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Post by crystal clear on Feb 14, 2006 3:42:03 GMT -5
Thanks tardy. Interesting definition of New Age. Why do you think all the bible-based mainstream conservative churches are so anti anything New Age? And what is 2x2 doctrine on New Age. Maybe not as anti as the churches?
But people get scared, why, is there a power there that people are afraid of? Like you say open is the way to go
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Post by ye are gods on Feb 14, 2006 8:59:01 GMT -5
Magistrate, judge, ruler is correct.
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Post by Now and Then on Feb 14, 2006 9:13:08 GMT -5
"In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe." Heb 1:1, 2
The problem with the New Age movement is that it caters to man's sinful and selfish nature by offering him the intoxicating thought of becoming god.
In a sense there is no such thing as God, God does not exist. And in another sense, there is nothing else but God, only God exists; all is god. And because all is god, there is no God.
New Agers believes each individual creates his own reality, similar to what Hindu pantheism calls "maya." This is illusion and accepting this false doctrine results in the belief that there are no absolute and universal standards between right and wrong.
This, then, makes "self 'the creator of his own reality in which self decides what is right and wrong, appropriate and inappropriate, pleasant and unpleasant. This is otherwise known as "moral relativism."
New Age people generally claims that within every man is a spark of divinity that can be self-realized when he goes through the altered states of consciousness.
"We will become Christs, not merely Christlike. In other words, we will all be gods."
New Agers believe in the Law of Rebirth, Reincarnation and Karma. This teaches that man does not really die. He is, instead, "endlessly reborn into new life cycles until such time as he perfects himself sufficiently to qualify for endless rest (nirvana)." Here, the soul returns into another body after death and the quality of the next life will be determined by how he has lived in the past life.
Central to New Age Movement's belief system is the belief in evolution—that we have all evolved from lower forms of life, but some of us evolved more highly than others just as some of us "manifest our divinity" more than others.
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Post by War on Saints on Feb 14, 2006 18:01:44 GMT -5
Nothing new in any of this. Paul to the Colossians, c. AD62 "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection with the Head" or Jessie Penn-Lewis, "War on the Saints" c.1916: www.marycraig.org/Books/WarOnTheSaints/CHAPTER 6. Counterfeits of the Divine.In seeking to obtain full control of the believer, the first great effort of evil spirits is directed toward getting the man to accept their suggestions, and workings, as the speaking, working, or leading of God. Their initial device is to counterfeit a "Divine Presence," under cover of which they can mislead their victim as they will. The word counterfeit meaning the substitution of the false for the true. The condition on the part of the believer, which gives the deceiving spirits their opportunity, and the basis of this counterfeit, is the mistaken location of God; either (1) in them (consciously); (2) or around them (consciously). When they pray they think of, or pray to God in themselves, or else to God around them, in the room, or atmosphere. They use their imagination, and try to "realize" His presence, and they desire to "feel" His presence in them, or upon them. THE LOCATION OF GOD BY BELIEVERS This locating of God, in, or around the believer, usually comes about at the time of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost; for up to that time of crisis in his life, he lived more by the acceptance of facts declared in the Scriptures, as understood by his intelligence; but with the Baptism of the Spirit he becomes more conscious of the presence of God by the Spirit, and in the spirit, and so begins to locate the Person of God as in, around, or upon him. Then he turns inward, and begins to pray to God as within him, which in time, really results in prayer to evil spirits, if they succeed in gaining admittance under counterfeit. The logical sequence of prayer to God as located within, can be pressed to absurdity, i.e., if the soul prays to God in himself, why not pray to God in another elsewhere? The limitation of God as a Person within, and all the possible dangers arising from this misconception of truth are obvious. Some believers so live inwardly in communion, worship and vision, as to become spiritually introverted, and cramped and narrowed in their outlook; with the result that their spiritual capacity and mental powers become dwarfed and powerless. Others become victims to the "inner voice," and the introverted attitude of listening to it, which is the ultimate result of the location of God as a Person within, so that eventually the mind becomes fixed in the introverted condition with no out-going action at all. In fact, all turning inwards to a subjective location of God as indwelling, speaking, communing, and guiding, in a materialistic, or conscious sense, is open to gravest danger; for upon this thought and belief, sedulously cultivated by the powers of darkness, the most serious deceptions, and final out-workings of deceiving spirits have taken place. THE ULTIMATE RESULT OF MISTAKEN LOCATION OF GOD Upon this principle of the mistaken location of God; used by evil spirits as the ground work for manifestations to support and deepen this belief; has come about the delusions of believers during past ages, and of recent years, who assert themselves to be "Christ." On the same principle will come about the great deceptions at the end of the age, foretold by the Lord in Matthew 24: 24, of the "false Christs" and false prophets; and the "I AM the Christ" of the leaders of groups of side-tracked believers...
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Post by War on Saints on Feb 14, 2006 18:11:54 GMT -5
More by Jessie Penn-Lewis on the location of God (chs 5&6)
DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE PERSON AND THE PRESENCE OF GOD
The counterfeit of God in and with the believer, is the basis on which is built the whole after structure of possession through deception. Believers desire and expect God to be with, and in them. They expect God's presence with them, and this is counterfeited. They expect God to be in them as a Person, and evil spirits to counterfeit the three Persons of the Trinity.
In order to understand the counterfeiting methods of evil spirits, we must distinguish between the Presence and the Person of God. The "Presence" as giving forth an influence, and the Person manifested as Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. Crudely put, it may be described as the difference between God as Light, and having light from God. God as Love, and having love from God. The one is the Person Himself in His nature, and the other the outshining, or giving forth of what He is.
The thought with many is that the Person of Christ is in them, but in truth, Christ as a Person is in no man. He dwells in believers by His Spirit--the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8: 9), as they receive the "supply of the Spirit of Jesus" (Phil. 1: 19; Acts 16: 7 R.V.).
It is necessary also, to understand the teaching of the Scriptures on the Trinity, and the different attributes and work of each Person of the Trinity, to discern the counterfeiting work of the deceiver.
God the Father, as a Person, is in the highest heaven. His presence is manifested in men as the "Spirit of the Father." Christ the Son is in heaven as a Person, His presence in men is by His Spirit. The Holy Spirit, as the Spirit of the Father, and of the Son, is on earth in the Church, which is the Body of Christ; and manifests the Father or the Son, in, and to believers, as they are taught by Him to apprehend the Triune God. Hence Christ said "I will manifest Myself," to those who loved and obeyed Him; and later "We will come, and make our abode with him" (John 14: 23) i.e. , by the Holy Spirit to be given on the Day of Pentecost.
THE PERSON OF GOD IN HEAVEN, HIS PRESENCE ON EARTH BY HIS SPIRIT
The Person of God is in heaven, but the presence is manifested on earth, in and with believers; through and by the Holy Spirit; in, and to the human spirit, as the organ of the Holy Spirit for the manifested presence of God.
The believer's misconceptions of the manner in which God can be in, and with him, and his ignorance that evil spirits can counterfeit God and divine things, form the ground upon which he can be deceived into accepting the counterfeit workings of evil spirits, and give them access into, and possession, and control of his inner being.
If God, Who is Spirit, can be in and with a man, evil spirits can also be in and with men, if they can obtain access by consent. Their aim and desire is possession and control. These are terms which are often used of God's work in believers, but which are not really Scriptural, in the meanings which are given to the words in the present day, i.e., God "possesses" a man in the sense of ownership, and then He asks for co-operation, not " control". The believer is to control himself, by co-operation in his spirit with the Spirit of God; but never does God "control" the man as a machine is controlled by another, or by some dynamic force.
THE ULTIMATE RESULT OF MISTAKEN LOCATION OF GOD
.... The devil's richest harvest is from the effects of his counterfeits; and unwittingly, many sober and faithful teachers of "holiness" have aided him in his deceptions, through the using of language which gives a materialistic idea of spiritual things, and which is eagerly laid hold of by the natural mind.
Those who locate God personally, and wholly in themselves, make themselves, by their assertions, practically, "divine" persons. God is not wholly in any man. He dwells in those who receive Him, by His own Spirit communicated to them. "God is Spirit," and mind or body cannot hold communion with spirit. Sensuous feelings, or "conscious" physical enjoyment of some supposed spiritual presence is not true communion of spirit with spirit, such as the Father seeks from those who worship Him (John 4: 24).
God is in heaven. Christ the Glorified Man is in heaven. The location of the God we worship is of supreme importance. If we think of our God as in us, and around us, for our worship, and for our "enjoyment" (?) we unwittingly open the door to the evil spirits in the atmosphere which surrounds us; instead of our penetrating in spirit through the lower heavens (see Heb. 4: 14; 9: 24; 10: 19, 20) to the throne of God, which is in the highest heaven, "above principality and power, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but in that which is to come" (Eph. 1: 21, A.V.).
THE TRUE LOCATION OF GOD
The Word of God is very clear on this point, and we need only ponder such passages as Heb. 1: 3; 2: 9; 4: 14-16; 9: 24; and many others, to see it. The God we worship, the Christ we love, is in heaven; and it is as we approach Him there, and by faith apprehend our union with Him in spirit there, we, too, are raised with Him and seated with Him, above the plane of the lower heavens where the powers of darkness reign, and seated with Him, see them under His feet (Eph. 1: 20-23; 2: 6).
The Lord's words recorded in the gospel of John, chapters 14, 15 and 16, give the truth very clearly concerning His indwelling in the believer. The "in Me" of being with Him, and in Him, in His heavenly position (John 14: 20), being the fact for the believer's faith, and apprehension; and the "I in you"--spoken to the company of disciples, and hence to the Body of Christ as a whole--following as a result in the individual life of the believer. The union with the Person in the glory, resulting in the inflow and outflow of His Spirit and life, through the believer on earth (see Phil. 1: 19). In other words, the "subjective" is the result of the "objective." The "object" of Christ in heaven, being the basis of faith for the subjective inflow of His life and power, by the Holy Spirit of God.
CHRIST AS A PERSON IN HEAVEN
The Lord said "If ye abide in Me (i.e., in the glory), and My words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will. . ." (John 15: 7). Christ abides in us by His Spirit, and through His words, but He Himself, as a Person, is in heaven, and it is only as we abide in Him there, that His Spirit, and His life, through His Word, can be manifested in us here.
"Abiding" means an attitude of trust, and dependence on a Person in heaven; but if the attitude is changed into a trust and dependence upon a Christ within, it is really a resting upon an inward experience, and a turning from the Christ in heaven, which actually blocks the avenue for the inflow of His life, and disassociates the believer from co-operation with Him by the Spirit. Any manifestation therefore of a "presence" within, cannot be a true "manifestation" from God, if it uncentres the believer from his right attitude toward the Christ in heaven.
There is a true knowledge of the presence of God, but it is in the spirit, when joined to Him Who is within the veil; a knowledge of spiritual union and fellowship with Him which lifts the believer, so to speak, out of himself to abide with Christ in God.
The counterfeit "presence" of God is nearly always manifested as love, to which the believer opens himself without hesitation, and finds it fill and satiate his innermost being, but the deceived one does not know that he has opened himself to evil spirits in the deepest need of his inner life.
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Post by nitro on Feb 14, 2006 18:13:08 GMT -5
" Do you have a study bible? It's invaluable. LOL too funny ;D
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Post by cloudy crystal on Feb 14, 2006 18:26:39 GMT -5
But people get scared, why, is there a power there that people are afraid of? Like you say open is the way to go "Crystal Clear" you are on dangerous ground. The devil works by smoke and mirrors. Do you realise that the single most dangerous event in New Age is the moment of emptying yourself, opening your mind, and inviting the powers of the universe into yourself. These will already have been presented as natural, available to everyone, for the taking if one opens to them. Open your mind to such tantalizing experiences and powers, at your own peril. Beware!
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Post by marjorie on Feb 14, 2006 21:55:39 GMT -5
Testing...testing...testing
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BC
Senior Member
Posts: 852
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Post by BC on Feb 14, 2006 23:23:41 GMT -5
Testing...testing...testing 'Recieving you loud and clear 'bout class "9"'
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2006 9:03:09 GMT -5
What's class "9"?
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Post by to tardy on Feb 15, 2006 12:27:39 GMT -5
To Tardy: Ask yourself. Why would we exes who just got out of a group (cult?) that was started by a self-proclaimed, deluded prophet even consider getting involved with another current self-proclaimed prophet who wants to gain a following for his special so-called revelations from God??
Answer: We cannot find a good reason, and we find several good reasons not to become involved.
But, we've learned to be open minded and think critically. Perhaps you can give us some good reasons we haven't considered. If so, we'd like to hear/read them.
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Post by cloudy crystal on Feb 15, 2006 17:04:50 GMT -5
To Tardy: Ask yourself. Why would we exes who just got out of a group (cult?) that was started by a self-proclaimed, deluded prophet even consider getting involved with another current self-proclaimed prophet who wants to gain a following for his special so-called revelations from God?? Mr Steven Blubaugh aka tardy. Many things are indeed cloudy. Like the true minister Paul we see through the glass very darkly and dimly at times. But some things are crystal clear (with apologies to the poster by that name). We exes do not rely on a system but have our own personal and real connection with the one true God in heaven, do not need your angel-speak and new age mumbo jumbo and smells and candles and ritual. We have a connection with God in heaven. Remember how rich that was? Do you remember? If you want to approach him, read revelation 4 "After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it." THERE is the throne of all power and wisdom before which we fall in worship as those elders in verse 10. And to which we have instant and direct access without need for any angel or self proclaimed prophet. praise God Almighty!
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Post by Open Minded on Feb 15, 2006 23:32:18 GMT -5
We exes do not rely on a system but have our own personal and real connection with the one true God in heaven, do not need your angel-speak and new age mumbo jumbo and smells and candles and ritual. We have a connection with God in heaven. Remember how rich that was? Do you remember?
I think you are being a bit judgemental here cloudy crystal! You seem to be assuming that it is only the exes that have a connection with God! What arrogance! Just because some people might use alternative ways to be close to God doesn't make them wrong. In fact it can enhance the real feeling of being in the presence of the Holy One. You should be more flexible in your ways of worship. Sounds like you are still stuck in the 2x2 system.
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Post by Seeking and Answer on Feb 17, 2006 9:06:04 GMT -5
Just wondering. What IS Reiki and what is the "good" and/or "bad". If any here have first hand knowledge, your answer and some resultant discussion will be appreciated and beneficial.
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Post by Bumper on Feb 17, 2006 22:33:52 GMT -5
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