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Post by Brad Lewis on Jul 25, 2007 23:55:56 GMT -5
Who started conventions? I don't read about them (conventions) in the Bible. I mean, women washing all the men's dirty laundry and some of them going out to motels at night doing the fishy-wishy? Little kids play meetings. I think conventions are the workers playing "house". Once I found out that the Faith Mission faithmission.org/ had conventions and that's where William Irvine got the idea, then it all made sense. Thank God for William Irvine en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Irvine_(Scottish_evangelist) . If I hadn't found out about him, the 2x2s wouldn't make rhyme or reason. Brad
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Post by B on Jul 26, 2007 3:50:47 GMT -5
Big BUMP
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Post by God did on Jul 26, 2007 7:24:17 GMT -5
Who started conventions? I don't read about them (conventions) in the Bible. I mean, women washing all the men's dirty laundry and some of them going out to motels at night doing the fishy-wishy? Little kids play meetings. I think conventions are the workers playing "house". Once I found out that the Faith Mission faithmission.org/ had conventions and that's where William Irvine got the idea, then it all made sense. Thank God for William Irvine en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Irvine_(Scottish_evangelist) . If I hadn't found out about him, the 2x2s wouldn't make rhyme or reason. Brad God started conventions. You have a problem with that? Do you think God has to tell you everything he does?
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Plenty of conventions
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Post by Plenty of conventions on Jul 26, 2007 7:38:47 GMT -5
Plenty of conventions in the bible! Old and New Testament alike.
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Post by las logged out on Jul 26, 2007 8:43:56 GMT -5
Who started conventions? I don't read about them (conventions) in the Bible. I mean, women washing all the men's dirty laundry and some of them going out to motels at night doing the fishy-wishy? Little kids play meetings. I think conventions are the workers playing "house". Once I found out that the Faith Mission faithmission.org/ had conventions and that's where William Irvine got the idea, then it all made sense. Thank God for William Irvine en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Irvine_(Scottish_evangelist) . If I hadn't found out about him, the 2x2s wouldn't make rhyme or reason. Brad Thats such a good question Bert next time i see the 2x2 elder i'm going to ask him who started conventions?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2007 8:48:45 GMT -5
"Conventions" here meaning the convening of ourselves together for worship. This was common in the Old Testament. In the New Testament Jesus Himself appeared to what was most likely such a gathering.
From our web site...
Early Jewish worshippers, such as Hannah, went yearly to the cultic centre in Shiloh in central Israel. Shiloh was replaced by the pilgrimage to Jerusalem during King David’s reign.In the Old Testament Nehemiah provides a picture of that convocation. The priests and the people were to purify and separate themselves from all strangers. They met for eight days - one quarter to one half of each day was spent in hearing the scriptures, and quarter in confessions and testimony. In the New Testament at least ten thousand people came from all Israel to spend three days with Jesus in the "feeding of the five thousand" (men only were counted.) And in the resurrection Jesus appeared to an assembly of five hundred people.
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 9:08:32 GMT -5
"Conventions" here meaning the convening of ourselves together for worship. This was common in the Old Testament. In the New Testament Jesus Himself appeared to what was most likely such a gathering. From our web site... Early Jewish worshippers, such as Hannah, went yearly to the cultic centre in Shiloh in central Israel. Shiloh was replaced by the pilgrimage to Jerusalem during King David’s reign.In the Old Testament Nehemiah provides a picture of that convocation. The priests and the people were to purify and separate themselves from all strangers. They met for eight days - one quarter to one half of each day was spent in hearing the scriptures, and quarter in confessions and testimony. In the New Testament at least ten thousand people came from all Israel to spend three days with Jesus in the "feeding of the five thousand" (men only were counted.) And in the resurrection Jesus appeared to an assembly of five hundred people.
You are so full of garbage It makes me sick. Your facts are so flawed. First of all it was not a convention when the people went to listen to Jesus. Second please give the facts and scriptures to support your comparisons of Old Testament rituals with conventions. i.e. The priests and the people were to purify and separate themselves from all strangers. They met for eight days - one quarter to one half of each day was spent in hearing the scriptures, and quarter in confessions and testimony.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2007 9:15:20 GMT -5
quote - You are so full of garbage It makes me sick. Thanks, may the spirit of Christ be with you.quote - Your facts are so flawed. First of all it was not a convention when the people went to listen to Jesus. A convention is the convening of people together. Ten thousand people coming from all Israel, for three days, sounds like a convention to me.quote - Second please give the facts and scriptures to support your comparisons of Old Testament rituals with conventions. i.e. The priests and the people were to purify and separate themselves from all strangers. They met for eight days - one quarter to one half of each day was spent in hearing the scriptures, and quarter in confessions and testimony.Isn't the above an example? The best way to address this issue is simple - define a convention
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 26, 2007 9:19:10 GMT -5
The well known annual inter-denominational Keswick Conventions started being held in 1875. The Faith Mission started in 1886. FM probably got their idea from Keswick.
Workers even attended the Keswick Conv after they started their own conventions. The Impartial reporter comments on this more than once. There is no way to know who came up with the idea to hold 2x2 conventions--WmI or Cooney or other workers. I think Cooney attended Keswick and preached there on at least one occasion.
From WmI Book: KESWICK CONVENTION INFORMATION: Since 1875, an annual gathering has been held in Keswick, England of Evangelical Christians for prayer, Bible study, and addresses. These conventions are held to this day; dates of annual conventions given below. The Keswick Conventions were started by a clergyman from the Church of England named Dundas Hartford-Battersby in June of 1875 in Keswick, England. Keswick was not a school of Theology, not a seminary, not a new sect or society. It existed for the sole purpose of helping men to be holy, to promote holiness, a mission to Christians, the children of God. To this day, Keswick's goals are to foster genuine unity; a deeper understanding between Christians with their common beliefs; and a closer and living relationship with God through His Spirit. Keswick's motto was and still is: "All One in Christ Jesus." By 1895, attendance at their tent meetings had risen to 3,000. In 1888, Keswick began to send missionaries out to preach. The Convention was financed entirely by gifts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Keswick Conventions Keswick Conventions Headquarters Keswick Convention Centre Skiddaw Street Keswick, Cumbria, England CA 12 4BY U.K. Tel: (07687) 72589
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timber
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Post by timber on Jul 26, 2007 9:20:51 GMT -5
I think many may be referring to convention as a "retreat" now. Our format, as I understand it, is somewhat similar to the Faith Mission way. I don't think they ever claimed a direct, specific connection to the Bible in support of their gatherings. I could be wrong though. Any know if they did?
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 9:21:33 GMT -5
quote - You are so full of garbage It makes me sick. Thanks, may the spirit of Christ be with you.quote - Your facts are so flawed. First of all it was not a convention when the people went to listen to Jesus. A convention is the convening of people together. Ten thousand people coming from all Israel, for three days, sounds like a convention to me.quote - Second please give the facts and scriptures to support your comparisons of Old Testament rituals with conventions. i.e. The priests and the people were to purify and separate themselves from all strangers. They met for eight days - one quarter to one half of each day was spent in hearing the scriptures, and quarter in confessions and testimony.Isn't the above an example? The best way to address this issue is simple - define a convention
First you give me the supporting data to back up the linkage you have made to a F&W's CONVENTION because you know very well that is what you are referring to. Did the F&W have priests and have burnt offerings as your example to the Old Testament? The multitudes of people going to hear Jesus was more compared to a revival not a CONVENTION. You twist even history to sell your group.
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timber
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Post by timber on Jul 26, 2007 9:23:36 GMT -5
Cherie and I must have posted at the same time. I'll defer to her post and I think it answers my questions. Thanks Cherie.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2007 9:30:25 GMT -5
What is a convention? In this sense it should be seen as a holy convocation, done at special times. Conventions are not to be confused with pilgrimages or normal church services.
Perhaps the first conventions were held in Egypt. We have no information about that long period, but there were a lot of Jews/Hebrews living there in the pre-Exodus period, and convening might have been popular and necessary.
There wouldn't have been any convening during the Exodus, war and exile period of Jewish history. But today conventions are common and many churches have them. In a property near ours in the 1960's the JW's had a convention.
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 9:37:26 GMT -5
What is a convention? In this sense it should be seen as a holy convocation, done at special times. Conventions are not to be confused with pilgrimages or normal church services. Perhaps the first conventions were held in Egypt. We have no information about that long period, but there were a lot of Jews/Hebrews living there in the pre-Exodus period, and convening might have been popular and necessary. There wouldn't have been any convening during the Exodus, war and exile period of Jewish history. But today conventions are common and many churches have them. In a property near ours in the 1960's the JW's had a convention. Or perhaps a convention is a group of caravan camper trailers meeting all over the a country. Camper Trailers also have nothing to do with the F&W convention. Please list your facts for the conventions were held in Egypt. Oh wait you again used plausible denial with the word "Perhaps". Boy your are inventive. Might have been, perhaps, probably are words and phrases used by revisionists who have no facts.
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 9:54:19 GMT -5
I think many may be referring to convention as a "retreat" now. Our format, as I understand it, is somewhat similar to the Faith Mission way. I don't think they ever claimed a direct, specific connection to the Bible in support of their gatherings. I could be wrong though. Any know if they did? The Vaudois, Waldenses, the Friends of God, and many similiar Itinerant 2x2 apostolic ministry and fellowship had yearly convention and where they sent out their new workers at these convetnions. They had special gathering for senior workers also for 1800 yrs..... BEFORE the Faith Mission group which founded in 1886 and William Irvine and the 2x2s early workers in 1900's. Yeah yeah we have listened to your fable a long time. So what else is new? Here are some discussions about your silly website things www.angelfire.com/ok3/apologia/nb.html
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2007 9:57:32 GMT -5
Ah ha! Nathan, is our "Janet" really a cross-dressing Greg Lees or Clay Randal?
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 10:00:53 GMT -5
Ah ha! Nathan, is our "Janet" really a cross-dressing Greg Lees or Clay Randal? Ha Ha He He is Janet really someone new and you are just PARANOID.
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 10:08:31 GMT -5
Ah ha! Nathan, is our "Janet" really a cross-dressing Greg Lees or Clay Randal? ;D another follower of Greg lee or Clay Randall.
Hey, Janet... believe it or not it up to you about yearly Conventions gathering for the 2x2 Itinerant ministry and believers have been around almost 2000 yrs.... It is historical document facts! Yeah yeah sure. So when was the first convention of anything back in the year 2000? Please list the date and supporting references to these facts?
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 10:18:14 GMT -5
Yeah yeah sure. So when was the first convention of anything back in the year 2000? Please list the date and supporting references to these facts? Oh, yea of little faith. The Vaudois church history have recorded this so believe it or not it is up to you. I believe they are telling the truth.So now your are telling me the Vaudois Church went back 2000 Years. Yeah right. So when was the first convention of anything back in the year 2000? Please list the date and supporting references to these facts?You cannot give me facts can you? Just conjecture. You cannot give me an answer because you don't have one. But, rather then admit it you turn you the yea of little faith thing. Like all revisionists. Maybe you can holler a littler louder wishing that others can't see the emperor with no clothes.
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Post by I think you should on Jul 26, 2007 10:49:16 GMT -5
Nathan
I think you should go join the Waldensian church You would be happy there Then you could see for real that your church stretches back thousands of years
Unfortunately, 2x2 ARE NOT Waldensians
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 26, 2007 10:54:20 GMT -5
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 14:18:56 GMT -5
Well there you have it. And all this time I thought it was started at shiloh.
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Post by rational on Jul 26, 2007 15:07:44 GMT -5
You are so full of garbage It makes me sick. Your facts are so flawed. First of all it was not a convention when the people went to listen to Jesus. Wow - are you friendly! A convention is a gathering of people in a single place. Usually a large number. How many people gathered together to listen to Jesus? Is that number too small? Were they not convened in the proper way? Or did you mean it was not a convention like the Geneva Conventions?
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 15:17:56 GMT -5
You are so full of garbage It makes me sick. Your facts are so flawed. First of all it was not a convention when the people went to listen to Jesus. Wow - are you friendly! A convention is a gathering of people in a single place. Usually a large number. How many people gathered together to listen to Jesus? Is that number too small? Were they not convened in the proper way? Or did you mean it was not a convention like the Geneva Conventions? Yes I am very friendly, thank you. Do not confuse the issue here. That gathering was not similar in any way to Conventions of the F&W's which is implied. Just because people gather does not make it a convention. People gather for rock concerts but they do not call them conventions. Lets see now, Hum, nope all rock concerts that I reviewed were called rock concerts and not conventions.
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Post by John on Jul 26, 2007 16:58:10 GMT -5
I see that Bert is performing the familiar 2x2 scripture twisting stunt.
It is fundamental to the credibility of the 2x2 system that it can be proven to founded upon scriptural principles - even if it isn't! Everyone knows that the whole convention thing is founded upon the ways of the Faith Mission, but to admit to this would leave those 2x2 diehards (such as Bert) who have sold their soul for a mess of 2x2 potage seriously compromised so they have to continue to flaunt the same falsehoods lest the whole 2x2 system be exposed as a seplechure filled with dead men's bones. They've an entire toolbox of tricks - one days its twisted scriture, another day its merely evasiveness. On other days they'll try a spot of patronisation or maybe a measure of biblical learning. It's all the same. But they know and we know, and they know that we know, what the score is however they continue with the act regardless. It's exactly the same with the whole issue of the sect's foundation. We must understand that to fail to continue with the cover up and come clean with the truth would render the game up which is far too crazy even to contemplate yet. I guess there's too many old men with too much to lose. But the day will come. In the meantime the circus continues and the clowns must continue to perform.
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Post by diet coke on Jul 26, 2007 17:30:23 GMT -5
Seriously, guys. There were no conventions like we have today in the Bible. Just as there were no church services in fancy church buildings like you have today in the Bible.
There was no Christianity in the O.T. There was no Christianity during the life of Christ. Christianity was formed on the life of Jesus, after he died. He is not the founder, he is the cornerstone of the foundation. If the Bible were extended a few hundred years, it would teach us how to build churches and have conventions (eek...some of those early "conventions" were downright bloodthirsty, I think I'll retract that statement).
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Post by rational on Jul 26, 2007 18:02:02 GMT -5
Wow - are you friendly! A convention is a gathering of people in a single place. Usually a large number. How many people gathered together to listen to Jesus? Is that number too small? Were they not convened in the proper way? Or did you mean it was not a convention like the Geneva Conventions? Yes I am very friendly, thank you. Do not confuse the issue here. That gathering was not similar in any way to Conventions of the F&W's which is implied. Just because people gather does not make it a convention. People gather for rock concerts but they do not call them conventions. Lets see now, Hum, nope all rock concerts that I reviewed were called rock concerts and not conventions. So you would think. Let's see. A large group of people gathering together to listen to one or more people speak about their beliefs. I understand at the F&W conventions people are fed. Oddly enough, Jesus also fed people at the early conventions. How long did the early conventions last? No one is sure except people were there long enough that they needed to be fed. Perhaps, with such an excellent speaker only a single day was needed. Now days they need 3 or 4. Why are you so adamant that they are not the same in both form and function? After all, "What's in a name?"
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Post by rational on Jul 26, 2007 18:03:50 GMT -5
Wow - are you friendly! A convention is a gathering of people in a single place. Usually a large number. How many people gathered together to listen to Jesus? Is that number too small? Were they not convened in the proper way? Or did you mean it was not a convention like the Geneva Conventions? Yes I am very friendly, thank you. Do not confuse the issue here. That gathering was not similar in any way to Conventions of the F&W's which is implied. Just because people gather does not make it a convention. People gather for rock concerts but they do not call them conventions. Lets see now, Hum, nope all rock concerts that I reviewed were called rock concerts and not conventions. So you would think. Let's see. A large group of people gathering together to listen to one or more people speak about their beliefs. I understand at the F&W conventions people are fed. Oddly enough, Jesus also fed people at the early conventions. How long did the early conventions last? No one is sure except people were there long enough that they needed to be fed. Perhaps, with such an excellent speaker only a single day was needed. Now days they need 3 or 4. Why are you so adamant that they are not the same in both form and function? After all, "What's in a name?"
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