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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 11:54:56 GMT -5
I’ve tried to but when you post it’s in direct rebuttal to what Christians ir believers have just posted. It’s negative and divisive. It’s as if you can’t stand for Christians to say anything without having to rebut or deny or belittle what they just posted. For example just the way you’ve just done Chuck over him saying that giving money at times has taken away the pride that behooves able bodied people to try to make it for themselves, but he didn’t say to withhold the aid. He’s just saying there’s got to be a better way of helping people without destroying their sense of personal responsibility. Or at least I think he’s trying to say something of the sort. But you just blanketed him with professing a higher moral background as if that means something distasteful to you. I am speaking from my experience of having heard Chuck's "view" on that particular subject time & time again from people who have never waked it the shoes of the people that they are talking about and YES that IS "distasteful" to me!
And YES, I get tired of their pretentiousness of acting as if they are taking the moral high ground!
And YES, I will continue to rebut those posts commenting on issues of which they are in denial of the reality of the situations about which they know very little, if anything at all!And yet you speak about Chuck as if you “know” him inside out. When the fact is you don’t, so you blanketed him with your hatred for Christians.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 24, 2020 14:22:30 GMT -5
I am speaking from my experience of having heard Chuck's "view" on that particular subject time & time again from people who have never waked it the shoes of the people that they are talking about and YES that IS "distasteful" to me!
And YES, I get tired of their pretentiousness of acting as if they are taking the moral high ground!
And YES, I will continue to rebut those posts commenting on issues of which they are in denial of the reality of the situations about which they know very little, if anything at all! And yet you speak about Chuck as if you “know” him inside out. When the fact is you don’t, so you blanketed him with your hatred for Christians. True, that I only know Chuck from what he posts, I never claimed to know him "inside out."
I can only go by what he posts and I have already said that I have heard that kind of excuse over & over again and even many who profess to be "Christians!" If I "hated Christians" I would have to hate a lot of my own relatives as well others that I have worked with and my own husband who was a Christian right up to his death.
STR. YOU can Keep on harping about my supposed "hatred for Christians," but your continually say it isn't going to make it true.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 14:33:12 GMT -5
And yet you speak about Chuck as if you “know” him inside out. When the fact is you don’t, so you blanketed him with your hatred for Christians. True, that I only know Chuck from what he posts, I never claimed to know him "inside out."
I can only go by what he posts and I have already said that I have heard that kind of excuse over & over again and even many who profess to be "Christians!" If I "hated Christians" I would have to hate a lot of my own relatives as well others that I have worked with and my own husband who was a Christian right up to his death.
STR. YOU can Keep on harping about my supposed "hatred for Christians," but your continually say it isn't going to make it true.Everything in your posts says you do hate Christianity or Christians. When you react negative to someone’s post, about the first thing you do is say that’s the way Christians are, etc. that says you hate Christians/Christianity because you link the negative things to them nearly every time.
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Post by snow on Jan 24, 2020 14:39:44 GMT -5
“Clarence Louie says things anyone other than a respected indigenous leader couldn’t get away with. His advice to young men on his home reserve? “Get a damn job, be a man. It should be embarrassing for you to raise your kids on welfare.”” Of course , it is good and right that there is a need for welfare etc , in some circumstances . The long term goal , of self respect , happiness and seneevof well being , is usually hard to realize , for able bodied mentally physically healthy people without working for their “pay” somehow, Alvin Chief Clarence Louie is very outspoken and his words aren't sitting well with some. But I think they would be so much happier to not be dependent on welfare. They were once a very proud people that were more than capable of taking care of themselves and what we did to them is horrendous. I know first hand how it is for some because I have long time friends on the Sioux Birdtail reserve in Manitoba and some of the younger generation struggle to just take care of everyday activities like cooking. It's really hard to see. One of my friends has become the spiritual healer for that reserve and we've had long talks about the very subject Chief Louie talks about. He was trying to bring an industry to the reserve when he went back but it was basically shot down. They were upset he had done well out in the world and was driving a nice truck so he told them he would help them get an industry going and they didn't like the idea. It's frustrating for many who see what needs to be done yet there is such resistance from many of their own. But you can't make a people dependent like we have and then just take it all away one day. It's a slow process but one that I see has to be done for their own self esteem.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 24, 2020 14:41:45 GMT -5
What do "Christians"and "chemists" have in common to be used as a comparison?
You tell me, you seem worried about labels. Do you think that "labels" aren't important in helping people explain what they believe? Or is it rather that you are trying to evade saying that you are a "Christian? "
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 24, 2020 14:44:02 GMT -5
True, that I only know Chuck from what he posts, I never claimed to know him "inside out."
I can only go by what he posts and I have already said that I have heard that kind of excuse over & over again and even many who profess to be "Christians!" If I "hated Christians" I would have to hate a lot of my own relatives as well others that I have worked with and my own husband who was a Christian right up to his death.
STR. YOU can Keep on harping about my supposed "hatred for Christians," but your continually say it isn't going to make it true. Everything in your posts says you do hate Christianity or Christians. When you react negative to someone’s post, about the first thing you do is say that’s the way Christians are, etc. that says you hate Christians/Christianity because you link the negative things to them nearly every time. Keep it up if it makes you feel better, STR.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 17:35:14 GMT -5
Maybe I was right. Do you know the difference between "equal" and "equitable"? It helps with the hypocrisy problem. How do you achieve either without force? Exchange self righteousness and bullheadedness for MUTUAL CONCESSION. Civilization demands compromise.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 17:42:22 GMT -5
And your approach is just begging them to get into their arguments with you. You don't have to pull every string they offer you. Sooner or later people get annoyed with the repetition and you'll perceive they're bashing you rather than trying to get you off their case. You're not winning anything by persisting past the point where they say they don't agree with you. Bob, it really has nothing to do with me at all. Both Dmmgood and Matt10 have admitted they’re out to proselytize people to become atheists. Otherwords they don’t attack me anymore then they do any other believer. They’re just using our posts to proselytize for new atheists. That pitches me off. My opinion is let Satan do his own dirty work. So your opinion has nothing to do with you? No wonder you get pithed off.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 18:24:46 GMT -5
“Clarence Louie says things anyone other than a respected indigenous leader couldn’t get away with. His advice to young men on his home reserve? “Get a damn job, be a man. It should be embarrassing for you to raise your kids on welfare.”” Of course , it is good and right that there is a need for welfare etc , in some circumstances . The long term goal , of self respect , happiness and seneevof well being , is usually hard to realize , for able bodied mentally physically healthy people without working for their “pay” somehow, Alvin Chief Clarence Louie is very outspoken and his words aren't sitting well with some. But I think they would be so much happier to not be dependent on welfare. They were once a very proud people that were more than capable of taking care of themselves and what we did to them is horrendous. I know first hand how it is for some because I have long time friends on the Sioux Birdtail reserve in Manitoba and some of the younger generation struggle to just take care of everyday activities like cooking. It's really hard to see. One of my friends has become the spiritual healer for that reserve and we've had long talks about the very subject Chief Louie talks about. He was trying to bring an industry to the reserve when he went back but it was basically shot down. They were upset he had done well out in the world and was driving a nice truck so he told them he would help them get an industry going and they didn't like the idea. It's frustrating for many who see what needs to be done yet there is such resistance from many of their own. But you can't make a people dependent like we have and then just take it all away one day. It's a slow process but one that I see has to be done for their own self esteem. Deserves to be repeated!
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Post by chuck on Jan 24, 2020 18:27:44 GMT -5
You tell me, you seem worried about labels. Do you think that "labels" aren't important in helping people explain what they believe? Or is it rather that you are trying to evade saying that you are a "Christian? " Nope Im happy to be labeled a Christian. So do you believe its important to incite hate/envy? because that is exactly how you are using labels.
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Post by chuck on Jan 24, 2020 18:40:45 GMT -5
How do you achieve either without force? Exchange self righteousness and bullheadedness for MUTUAL CONCESSION. Civilization demands compromise. Haha good one Bob. How are you going to achieve compromise without force?. You cannot get your desire outcome without force. So my Kids dont have the same opportunities as other kids in school/university. I would be called a racists ect ect if I dare suggested my kids should have the same opportunities as others.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 18:47:29 GMT -5
Exchange self righteousness and bullheadedness for MUTUAL CONCESSION. Civilization demands compromise. Haha good one Bob. How are you going to achieve compromise without force?. Force, by definition, is the opposite of compromise. Then obviously you need to control others. Why is that so? Sounds like a sh-e-hole society. Where do you live?
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Post by chuck on Jan 24, 2020 21:05:10 GMT -5
Haha good one Bob. How are you going to achieve compromise without force?. Force, by definition, is the opposite of compromise. Then obviously you need to control others. Why is that so? Sounds like a sh-e-hole society. Where do you live? So compromise by control. Come on Bob!. Thats hypocrisy at its finest. It is so because people want equality of outcome by non equitable methods. All it leads to is division. The more you force it the larger the divide. Its happening now, dont look to hard. Giving labels and comparisons is a effective method of the over zelous and ignorant. Its the society many wished for. Its starting to show how equality of outcome is not compassionate at all. Australia. For the record I dont want my kids being given free kicks in education and jobs because of a label given out.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 22:43:09 GMT -5
Force, by definition, is the opposite of compromise. Then obviously you need to control others. Why is that so? Sounds like a sh-e-hole society. Where do you live? So compromise by control. That's NOT what I said. In fact, that's smack opposite to what I said. I have not a clue of what specifically you're talking about. But I clearly read that you're frustrated and somewhat angry about your lot in life. I'd bet money that a lot of it has to do with politics. Sounds like a virtuous wish on your part. But what label are you protesting? Who is forcing your kids to accept free things you don't want? You're sounding like someone in Sunday morning meeting who goes on and on about "things" and assumes everyone knows exactly what the things are. I know what my principles are. I have no idea what you're complaints are.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 24, 2020 22:52:40 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2020 15:33:46 GMT -5
Do you think that "labels" aren't important in helping people explain what they believe? Or is it rather that you are trying to evade saying that you are a "Christian? " Nope Im happy to be labeled a Christian. So do you believe its important to incite hate/envy? because that is exactly how you are using labels. Where have I used labels to "incite(s) hate/envy?"
I've already explained time & time again that the word "Christian" carries with it certain characteristics that those who claim to be a Christian are expected to have.
But I have observed that not all people who call themselves "Christians" have those characteristics! I have also said that I have worked for peace & justice issues along side of some Christians who DO have those characteristics!
So, just where have I "incited hate & envy" by "using labels?"
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2020 16:45:54 GMT -5
And your approach is just begging them to get into their arguments with you. You don't have to pull every string they offer you. Sooner or later people get annoyed with the repetition and you'll perceive they're bashing you rather than trying to get you off their case. You're not winning anything by persisting past the point where they say they don't agree with you. Bob, it really has nothing to do with me at all. Both Dmmgood and Matt10 have admitted they’re out to proselytize people to become atheists. Otherwords they don’t attack me anymore then they do any other believer. They’re just using our posts to proselytize for new atheists. That pitches me off. My opinion is let Satan do his own dirty work. STR, -here you are right here, right now, -making false claims against Matt & myself!
Neither of us have EVER said any thing of the kind that we "out to proselytize people to become atheists."
That is actually laughable
Such false claims like that does P.I.S.S. ME off!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2020 18:15:39 GMT -5
Bob, it really has nothing to do with me at all. Both Dmmgood and Matt10 have admitted they’re out to proselytize people to become atheists. Otherwords they don’t attack me anymore then they do any other believer. They’re just using our posts to proselytize for new atheists. That pitches me off. My opinion is let Satan do his own dirty work. STR, -here you are right here, right now, -making false claims against Matt & myself!
Neither of us have EVER said any thing of the kind that we "out to proselytize people to become atheists."
That is actually laughable
Such false claims like that does P.I.S.S. ME off!
You may not have used “proselytize “. How many times have you said that IF you can help others see what someone helped you to see, that is what you wanted to do because you were thankful to those that helped you. That’s proselytizing. Matt 10 said very similar things not but a few days ago that if “we” can help show people and save them from...” That’s proselytizing.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 25, 2020 19:59:07 GMT -5
STR, -here you are right here, right now, -making false claims against Matt & myself!
Neither of us have EVER said any thing of the kind that we "out to proselytize people to become atheists."
That is actually laughable
Such false claims like that does P.I.S.S. ME off!
You may not have used “proselytize “. How many times have you said that IF you can help others see what someone helped you to see, that is what you wanted to do because you were thankful to those that helped you. That’s proselytizing. Matt 10 said very similar things not but a few days ago that if “we” can help show people and save them from...” That’s proselytizing. Saving someone from an affliction is not proselytizing. Convincing someone to become a "willing slave" IS proselytizing.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2020 20:07:25 GMT -5
You may not have used “proselytize “. How many times have you said that IF you can help others see what someone helped you to see, that is what you wanted to do because you were thankful to those that helped you. That’s proselytizing. Matt 10 said very similar things not but a few days ago that if “we” can help show people and save them from...” That’s proselytizing. Saving someone from an affliction is not proselytizing. Convincing someone to become a "willing slave" IS proselytizing. Proselytizing noun noun the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 25, 2020 20:11:37 GMT -5
Saving someone from an affliction is not proselytizing. Convincing someone to become a "willing slave" IS proselytizing. Proselytizing noun noun the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. Exactly -- one slavery for another. How about simply just tossing the whole thing and being rid of the addiction for good?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2020 20:31:56 GMT -5
STR, -here you are right here, right now, -making false claims against Matt & myself!
Neither of us have EVER said any thing of the kind that we "out to proselytize people to become atheists."
That is actually laughable
Such false claims like that does P.I.S.S. ME off!
You may not have used “proselytize “. How many times have you said that IF you can help others see what someone helped you to see, that is what you wanted to do because you were thankful to those that helped you. That’s proselytizing. Matt 10 said very similar things not but a few days ago that if “we” can help show people and save them from...” That’s proselytizing. proselytize VERBconvert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
"the program did have a tremendous evangelical effect, proselytizing many" · [more]
synonyms:
evangelize · convert · seek/make converts · bring to God/Christ · bring into the fold · spread the gospel/word (to) · propagandize · preach (to) · win over · recruit · brainwash.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jan 25, 2020 20:41:50 GMT -5
The thing is you cannot force a father to stay with his family, it is not always as black and white as some may think. I will assume you have been to Aboriginal communities in N.T.and W.A. chuck ? I agree. Yes I have been to Aboriginal communities. I dont think we should force anyone to do anything. Thats the whole point. Throwing money at it forces them away. It encourages broken families. That is not compassion, thats evil. So what do you see as a solution chuck ? Poverty creates broken families as well. We have to take some responsibility for how our ancestors treated the Aboriginals, also it was Europeans who introduced alcohol and drugs to the Aboriginals and we see the results of that with broken families and domestic violence. There is no easy answer.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2020 20:44:09 GMT -5
You may not have used “proselytize “. How many times have you said that IF you can help others see what someone helped you to see, that is what you wanted to do because you were thankful to those that helped you. That’s proselytizing. Matt 10 said very similar things not but a few days ago that if “we” can help show people and save them from...” That’s proselytizing. proselytize VERBconvert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
"the program did have a tremendous evangelical effect, proselytizing many" · [more]
synonyms:
evangelize · convert · seek/make converts · bring to God/Christ · bring into the fold · spread the gospel/word (to) · propagandize · preach (to) · win over · recruit · brainwash.“From one belief, OPINION TO ANOTHER.”
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2020 20:46:18 GMT -5
Proselytizing noun noun the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. Exactly -- one slavery for another. How about simply just tossing the whole thing and being rid of the addiction for good? There’s addiction then there’s addiction. Some are just as addicted to proving the myth of the Bible IF NOT MORE SO then the ones who believe the Bible.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2020 20:59:47 GMT -5
proselytize VERBconvert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
"the program did have a tremendous evangelical effect, proselytizing many" · [more]
synonyms:
evangelize · convert · seek/make converts · bring to God/Christ · bring into the fold · spread the gospel/word (to) · propagandize · preach (to) · win over · recruit · brainwash. “From one belief, OPINION TO ANOTHER.” No, STR. You simply can't "proselytize" someone to be an "atheist" like you claim we are doing. When someone understands the underpinning's of religious ideas, -there is no longer any need to "convert" them to anything.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2020 21:08:02 GMT -5
Exactly -- one slavery for another. How about simply just tossing the whole thing and being rid of the addiction for good? There’s addiction then there’s addiction. Some are just as addicted to proving the myth of the Bible IF NOT MORE SO then the ones who believe the Bible. Why would we be "addicted" to trying to prove that most of the bible is a myth? Why should I even care what you believe?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2020 21:29:55 GMT -5
“From one belief, OPINION TO ANOTHER.” No, STR. You simply can't "proselytize" someone to be an "atheist" like you claim we are doing. When someone understands the underpinning's of religious ideas, -there is no longer any need to "convert" them to anything.
You are proselytizing them into another opinion. You can’t deny it, though you’re trying really hard. I witnessed ALL YOU ATHEISTS JUMP ON CIder to change her belief or opinion. It’s proselytizing !
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