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Post by chuck on Jan 24, 2020 2:36:12 GMT -5
You’ve blanketed your complaint to cover ALL Christians. First, you have no idea if ALL CHRISTIANS claim high moral ground OR haven’t been of lesser or native societies. Or if all Christians don’t contribute to needy people or if they think it’s a waste of money. You come off as if Christians are less then human. Someone to pile all your dislike on. No.
I did not use any "blanket" to cover ALL Christians.
Reread what I said.
Either you misunderstood it or I didn't explain it well enough.
I will restate what I meant:
"There are many people (who aren't Christians) who believe the same a as those have expressed here about this issue"(Wally and Chuck)
"But those people (who aren't Christians) aren't claiming the same "high moral ground" as those "Christians" (Wally and Chuck) are claiming."
Maybe that will be more clear.
PS: Now about ALL Christians: How many times have I said it here on TMB that I have worked along side MANY Christians who were also concerned as much about human rights as I am?
Those are Christians for whom I have the greatest respect.
PPS: You are WAY off track when you make statements like this! "You come off as if Christians are less then human. Someone to pile all your dislike on."
You've got to be joking. When did I claim the moral high ground?.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 2:36:45 GMT -5
Yep, heard it all before! Time & time again! And by "Christians(?)" who never walked in the shoes of those they don't share any of their good luck of having been born the right color, in the right ethnic group and in the right area of the world. Why do I have to walk in someone's shoes to see obvious waste and harm coming from problems created by the zeal of people trying to help other people on the back of other peoples efforts by trying to create equal outcome. All I see in your post above is division. Can you explain to me what is wrong with pointing out the obvious waste and harm coming from the current direction of social welfare. Maybe you have narrow vision on this matter.
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Post by chuck on Jan 24, 2020 2:40:01 GMT -5
Why do I have to walk in someone's shoes to see obvious waste and harm coming from problems created by the zeal of people trying to help other people on the back of other peoples efforts by trying to create equal outcome. All I see in your post above is division. Can you explain to me what is wrong with pointing out the obvious waste and harm coming from the current direction of social welfare. Maybe you have narrow vision on this matter. No Bob, this argument bolstered by labels and comparisons is divisive. Wanting equal outcome is non compassionate in actual life. Looks great on paper. Edit It is also highly hypocritical.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 24, 2020 2:47:15 GMT -5
No. I did not use any "blanket" to cover ALL Christians. Reread what I said.
Either you misunderstood it or I didn't explain it well enough.
I will restate what I meant:
"There are many people (who aren't Christians) who believe the same a as those have expressed here about this issue"(Wally and Chuck)
"But those people (who aren't Christians) aren't claiming the same "high moral ground" as those "Christians" (Wally and Chuck) are claiming."
Maybe that will be more clear.
PS: Now about ALL Christians: How many times have I said it here on TMB that I have worked along side MANY Christians who were also concerned as much about human rights as I am?
Those are Christians for whom I have the greatest respect.
PPS: You are WAY off track when you make statements like this! "You come off as if Christians are less then human. Someone to pile all your dislike on."
You've got to be joking. When did I claim the moral high ground?. Sorry, my error, -I thought you considered yourself a Christian.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 2:50:25 GMT -5
Maybe you have narrow vision on this matter. No Bob, this argument bolstered by labels and comparisons is divisive. Wanting equal outcome is non compassionate in actual life. Looks great on paper. Edit It is also highly hypocritical. Maybe I was right. Do you know the difference between "equal" and "equitable"? It helps with the hypocrisy problem.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 24, 2020 2:52:01 GMT -5
Okay, then. You believe you're entirely right -- and your enlightenment should be the envy of all the rest of us. No, that’s not the idea! The idea is Im trying to share what Ivevbeen shown/revealed. Then, STR, why can't you accord us the same rights to share what we have learned instead of accusing us of having a "hatred in your hearts for Christianity" & that we have a "bitterness-against-Christians?"
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 2:53:22 GMT -5
No, that’s not the idea! The idea is Im trying to share what Ivevbeen shown/revealed. That's what Nathan's trying to do too. But then, he thinks everyone is bashing him too. Maybe it's a religious person's entitlement of deference that I don't understand. No, it’s when the rebuttal comes it makes us think you haven’t really understood what we’re trying to say.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 2:56:15 GMT -5
You've got to be joking. When did I claim the moral high ground?. Sorry, my error, -I thought you considered yourself a Christian.This is the blanket of bashing all Christians regardless.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 2:57:29 GMT -5
That's what Nathan's trying to do too. But then, he thinks everyone is bashing him too. Maybe it's a religious person's entitlement of deference that I don't understand. No, it’s when the rebuttal comes it makes us think you haven’t really understood what we’re trying to say. But surely you realize that some people just think it's a stupid idea, the way a lot of Christians think about what non-Christians believe.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 2:59:12 GMT -5
Sorry, my error, -I thought you considered yourself a Christian. This is the blanket of bashing all Christians regardless. Why do you try to defend all Christians? You know a lot of Christians are just plain bat-schit crazy.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 3:01:30 GMT -5
No, that’s not the idea! The idea is Im trying to share what Ivevbeen shown/revealed. Then, STR, why can't you accord us the same rights to share what we have learned instead of accusing us of having a "hatred in your hearts for Christianity" & that we have a "bitterness-against-Christians?"I’ve tried to but when you post it’s in direct rebuttal to what Christians ir believers have just posted. It’s negative and divisive. It’s as if you can’t stand for Christians to say anything without having to rebut or deny or belittle what they just posted. For example just the way you’ve just done Chuck over him saying that giving money at times has taken away the pride that behooves able bodied people to try to make it for themselves, but he didn’t say to withhold the aid. He’s just saying there’s got to be a better way of helping people without destroying their sense of personal responsibility. Or at least I think he’s trying to say something of the sort. But you just blanketed him with professing a higher moral background as if that means something distasteful to you.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 3:03:13 GMT -5
No, it’s when the rebuttal comes it makes us think you haven’t really understood what we’re trying to say. But surely you realize that some people just think it's a stupid idea, the way a lot of Christians think about what non-Christians believe. And that’s when offenses occur when others put it out that other people are just plain stupid or insane. When in all likelihood, they’re probably more with it then the person thinking they’re stupid or insane.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 3:04:57 GMT -5
This is the blanket of bashing all Christians regardless. Why do you try to defend all Christians? You know a lot of Christians are just plain bat-schit crazy. I’m not sure I think that they’re bat Schit crazy. Some people just want to do it on their own will power and that just doesn’t work.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 3:06:29 GMT -5
But surely you realize that some people just think it's a stupid idea, the way a lot of Christians think about what non-Christians believe. And that’s when offenses occur when others put it out that other people are just plain stupid or insane. When in all likelihood, they’re probably more with it then the person thinking they’re stupid or insane. Then stop telling people they are bashing Christianity. You don't want to be arguing with people who think you're stupid, surely. Just don't do the stupid thing of complaining because they don't understand.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 3:10:02 GMT -5
But surely you realize that some people just think it's a stupid idea, the way a lot of Christians think about what non-Christians believe. And that’s when offenses occur when others put it out that other people are just plain stupid or insane. When in all likelihood, they’re probably more with it then the person thinking they’re stupid or insane. Btw, I don’t think non-Christians are stupid or crazy. I’m not sure what to think about other religions per se. Atheists seem something out of this world especially those who’ve held themselves to be so holy at some previous time. The one thing I am sure about, that if any one person had ever been down the spiritual road I have and then turn atheist, has sealed their own doom. But at the same time, I don’t think any one who’s had the same experiences I’ve had spiritually would ever think of being an atheist. It just doesn’t make sense.
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Post by chuck on Jan 24, 2020 3:11:21 GMT -5
You've got to be joking. When did I claim the moral high ground?. Sorry, my error, -I thought you considered yourself a Christian.What does "Christian" have to do with it? I never mentioned it at all. If I call myself a chemist do I still claim the moral high ground?.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 3:12:07 GMT -5
Why do you try to defend all Christians? You know a lot of Christians are just plain bat-schit crazy. I’m not sure I think that they’re bat Schit crazy. Some people just want to do it on their own will power and that just doesn’t work. Well my advice it to leave them alone. Not everyone wants you nagging them to make them agree with you. It's okay -- just remember that most people don't want your advice. That doesn't mean anything about you, it's the way everyone is.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 3:14:47 GMT -5
And that’s when offenses occur when others put it out that other people are just plain stupid or insane. When in all likelihood, they’re probably more with it then the person thinking they’re stupid or insane. Then stop telling people they are bashing Christianity. You don't want to be arguing with people who think you're stupid, surely. Just don't do the stupid thing of complaining because they don't understand. When people quit bashing the Bible, God and Christians I’m liable to quit arguing. But it doesn’t speak well of my faith to let people bash God and bible and Christians who struggle to share things. There’s been many times we believers have been discussing things between ourselves, then you atheists have to come along and start bashing, denying, denigrating or any other negative thing you can think of about what we have been discussing. And when one atheist starts in opposing what a believer says, then it’s not but a couple of posts until all of you are in the podium. TMB has been overtaken by atheists.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 3:20:37 GMT -5
I’m not sure I think that they’re bat Schit crazy. Some people just want to do it on their own will power and that just doesn’t work. Well my advice it to leave them alone. Not everyone wants you nagging them to make them agree with you. It's okay -- just remember that most people don't want your advice. That doesn't mean anything about you, it's the way everyone is. You think it’s alright for believers to meekly let you atheists proselytize people without us trying to say something? You really do think we’re crazy! The way the atheists jumped on poor Cider’s post trying to turn her into another atheist was shameful. She got so upset with you all she left and didn’t come back. You guys hit her hard, and I mean hard with your arguments against God and bible and Christianity. She was in no condition to be hit so hard and fast with atheistic proselytizing. She just needed an outlet for her troubles. But you guys managed to run her off and you manage to keep any new 2x2s from coming on or any new ex 2x2s.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 3:22:03 GMT -5
No, that’s not the idea! The idea is Im trying to share what Ivevbeen shown/revealed. Then, STR, why can't you accord us the same rights to share what we have learned instead of accusing us of having a "hatred in your hearts for Christianity" & that we have a "bitterness-against-Christians?"The hatred is evident in nearly every post you write.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 3:24:37 GMT -5
Then stop telling people they are bashing Christianity. You don't want to be arguing with people who think you're stupid, surely. Just don't do the stupid thing of complaining because they don't understand. When people quit bashing the Bible, God and Christians I’m liable to quit arguing. But it doesn’t speak well of my faith to let people bash God and bible and Christians who struggle to share things. There’s been many times we believers have been discussing things between ourselves, then you atheists have to come along and start bashing, denying, denigrating or any other negative thing you can think of about what we have been discussing. And when one atheist starts in opposing what a believer says, then it’s not but a couple of posts until all of you are in the podium. TMB has been overtaken by atheists. And your approach is just begging them to get into their arguments with you. You don't have to pull every string they offer you. Sooner or later people get annoyed with the repetition and you'll perceive they're bashing you rather than trying to get you off their case. You're not winning anything by persisting past the point where they say they don't agree with you.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 24, 2020 3:27:23 GMT -5
Then, STR, why can't you accord us the same rights to share what we have learned instead of accusing us of having a "hatred in your hearts for Christianity" & that we have a "bitterness-against-Christians?" I’ve tried to but when you post it’s in direct rebuttal to what Christians ir believers have just posted. It’s negative and divisive. It’s as if you can’t stand for Christians to say anything without having to rebut or deny or belittle what they just posted. For example just the way you’ve just done Chuck over him saying that giving money at times has taken away the pride that behooves able bodied people to try to make it for themselves, but he didn’t say to withhold the aid. He’s just saying there’s got to be a better way of helping people without destroying their sense of personal responsibility. Or at least I think he’s trying to say something of the sort. But you just blanketed him with professing a higher moral background as if that means something distasteful to you. I am speaking from my experience of having heard Chuck's "view" on that particular subject time & time again from people who have never waked it the shoes of the people that they are talking about and YES that IS "distasteful" to me!
And YES, I get tired of their pretentiousness of acting as if they are taking the moral high ground!
And YES, I will continue to rebut those posts commenting on issues of which they are in denial of the reality of the situations about which they know very little, if anything at all!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 24, 2020 3:32:58 GMT -5
Sorry, my error, -I thought you considered yourself a Christian. What does "Christian" have to do with it? I never mentioned it at all. If I call myself a chemist do I still claim the moral high ground?. What do "Christians"and "chemists" have in common to be used as a comparison?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 24, 2020 3:57:04 GMT -5
Well my advice it to leave them alone. Not everyone wants you nagging them to make them agree with you. It's okay -- just remember that most people don't want your advice. That doesn't mean anything about you, it's the way everyone is. You think it’s alright for believers to meekly let you atheists proselytize people without us trying to say something? Yes, if you can't handle their bashing YOU. I'm glad you said "we", so this isn't personal about you. Some of you, yes. Out of control religious fanatics. Some of you, no. Quietly shining your light and leading by example. And for the non-stop evangelicals -- they become a plaguing nuisance when they think the whole world is their gospel stage. That's why they don't want them operating in public schools. That she didn't feel comfortable is unfortunate. My suggestion is that until all other kinds of proselytizing (like yours, Nathan's, worker sycophants', libtards', Trumpists', and other brands we've hosted) is abandoned, it should be understood that atheistic proselytizing is no great disruption compared to the rest of the chaos on here. There are quieter streets with far less traffic that this forum.
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Post by chuck on Jan 24, 2020 8:03:27 GMT -5
What does "Christian" have to do with it? I never mentioned it at all. If I call myself a chemist do I still claim the moral high ground?. What do "Christians"and "chemists" have in common to be used as a comparison?
You tell me, you seem worried about labels.
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Post by chuck on Jan 24, 2020 8:04:47 GMT -5
I’ve tried to but when you post it’s in direct rebuttal to what Christians ir believers have just posted. It’s negative and divisive. It’s as if you can’t stand for Christians to say anything without having to rebut or deny or belittle what they just posted. For example just the way you’ve just done Chuck over him saying that giving money at times has taken away the pride that behooves able bodied people to try to make it for themselves, but he didn’t say to withhold the aid. He’s just saying there’s got to be a better way of helping people without destroying their sense of personal responsibility. Or at least I think he’s trying to say something of the sort. But you just blanketed him with professing a higher moral background as if that means something distasteful to you. I am speaking from my experience of having heard Chuck's "view" on that particular subject time & time again from people who have never waked it the shoes of the people that they are talking about and YES that IS "distasteful" to me!
And YES, I get tired of their pretentiousness of acting as if they are taking the moral high ground!
And YES, I will continue to rebut those posts commenting on issues of which they are in denial of the reality of the situations about which they know very little, if anything at all!Oh so now you know me?.
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Post by chuck on Jan 24, 2020 9:22:31 GMT -5
No Bob, this argument bolstered by labels and comparisons is divisive. Wanting equal outcome is non compassionate in actual life. Looks great on paper. Edit It is also highly hypocritical. Maybe I was right. Do you know the difference between "equal" and "equitable"? It helps with the hypocrisy problem. How do you achieve either without force?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 24, 2020 11:49:26 GMT -5
When people quit bashing the Bible, God and Christians I’m liable to quit arguing. But it doesn’t speak well of my faith to let people bash God and bible and Christians who struggle to share things. There’s been many times we believers have been discussing things between ourselves, then you atheists have to come along and start bashing, denying, denigrating or any other negative thing you can think of about what we have been discussing. And when one atheist starts in opposing what a believer says, then it’s not but a couple of posts until all of you are in the podium. TMB has been overtaken by atheists. And your approach is just begging them to get into their arguments with you. You don't have to pull every string they offer you. Sooner or later people get annoyed with the repetition and you'll perceive they're bashing you rather than trying to get you off their case. You're not winning anything by persisting past the point where they say they don't agree with you. Bob, it really has nothing to do with me at all. Both Dmmgood and Matt10 have admitted they’re out to proselytize people to become atheists. Otherwords they don’t attack me anymore then they do any other believer. They’re just using our posts to proselytize for new atheists. That pitches me off. My opinion is let Satan do his own dirty work.
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