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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 5, 2019 2:42:42 GMT -5
So you do not wish to answer. Evading questions is a tactic that the workers use. What about when Jesus said be ready to answer every man the reason for your faith. Not evading at all- you like to rapid fire questions that you somehow think are trying to prove something??? Not quite sure what your agenda is-If you are actually seeking out truth- there is one source for that! reborn I am curious, where do you believe the F&Ws church started from? We have all heard "the shores of Galilee" theory....but where were they prior to William Irvine ?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 5, 2019 4:00:14 GMT -5
He was probably forbidden to read it. I'm waiting to hear that my book has been banned. I've been "invited" to take it to a book trade fair in London in the spring. I'm going to scratch up my pennies. WOW! London?
Bob, please don't let your ego get out of hand to the point that you feel so far above our lowly group that you wouldn't want converse with us any more! I humbly suggest that Bob gets himself up to Scotland and preferably the far north west where the best peat is and the air is fresh off the furious fifties.
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Post by mountain on Dec 5, 2019 6:45:50 GMT -5
WOW! London?
Bob, please don't let your ego get out of hand to the point that you feel so far above our lowly group that you wouldn't want converse with us any more! I humbly suggest that Bob gets himself up to Scotland and preferably the far north west where the best peat is and the air is fresh off the furious fifties. You do realise the NC500 has made this part of the world somewhat congested of late?
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Post by nathan on Dec 5, 2019 8:48:39 GMT -5
Do you believe that your church is the New Testament church or one started by a man or men 120 years ago, Reborn? Do you believe that those who attend other churches are saved or does your church have the monopoly on salvation? I don’t question these things- I am completely satisfied. MANY on here will NOT satisfy with your answers, some keep on repeating the same question over and over like a broken record to DRIVE you NUTS, like water board tortures. You are doing good in answering people questions about your faith and about Christ/God. Keep up the good work, I have been doing for over 20 yrs on here.
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 11:43:50 GMT -5
Unbelief is actually unbelievable! Reborn, would you say the same about a belief in one of the other gods? There are many such "gods"
For instance: there is Tammuz, Adonis and Attis, Dionysus and as well as Jesus Christ.
Examples of gods who die and later return to life are from the religions of the Ancient Near East which include Biblical and Greco-Roman mythology and by extension Christianity. The concept of a dying-and-rising god is found in the fertility rites surrounding the yearly cycle of vegetation. That is why we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus at Easter with the return of vegetation.
Would you also say that an "Unbelief" in any one of the those gods would also "unbelievable?"
One God has revealed himself to me. I will follow him!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 12:35:13 GMT -5
Calling Willie Jamieson UNCLE is no different to calling a catholic priest FATHER. The two by two Sunday Trinity morning meeting group has unbounded hypocrisy. how about the "True Blue Two by Two Sunday Trinity Morning Meeting Group"
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 5, 2019 12:56:56 GMT -5
Calling Willie Jamieson UNCLE is no different to calling a catholic priest FATHER. The two by two Sunday Trinity morning meeting group has unbounded hypocrisy. how about the "True Blue Two by Two Sunday Trinity Morning Meeting Group" Is it a two piece band or a trio?
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Post by snow on Dec 5, 2019 12:58:38 GMT -5
Apparently he has declared a trinity workership with Wally and Jetmech.... I really am surprised that he has three companions since he is so adamant that all the workers go out 2x2 but hey, it was also news to me that heaven is in the interior of Venus. He knows all kinds of things I don't. Never even dreamed of even! edit - as I kept reading this thread I see that Nathan has confirmed this for me that he is part of a trinity Nathan, Jetmech and Wally. So what I just said is redundant... story of my life! *** We read in the book of Acts the apostles went in pairs, sometimes 3 because one companion had some thing need to be taken care of. When I was in the work I started out with one companion, but he went to special meetings in another state so, I went and joined the neighboring field pairs of workers. We were 3 domes for about a month. This happened to me 3 yrs! of having 3 workers together instead in pairs/two. Wally is my main companion because he is posting and reading and checking my post daily. Jetmech dues to work schedule he can only check in when he has time. Oh dear, that's isn't biblical is it! I thought it was wrong to do anything but 2x2? However, you seem to make allowances for it, so what do I know...
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 5, 2019 13:00:09 GMT -5
I humbly suggest that Bob gets himself up to Scotland and preferably the far north west where the best peat is and the air is fresh off the furious fifties. You do realise the NC500 has made this part of the world somewhat congested of late? Hmph. This calls for a Gathering of the Clan. A call to arms to repel all those that use soap and wear trousers.
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Post by snow on Dec 5, 2019 13:05:23 GMT -5
reborn I know what I was told from my Grandmother and what her views were on the trinity. I have sat in enough meetings, missions and Conventions to know what the Workers teach about the trinity doctrine !! RT, it seems you, MANY of the friends, the workers and your grandmother have NOT sat in these workers sermons at conventions speaking and teaching about the TRINITY.
Many of the early 2x2 workers and some current workers preached and believed in the TRI-UNITY and Jesus is God the Son.
John Long's (2x2 worker from 1898-1907) Journal in 1899 wrote:
William Irvine's Doctrines & Leaderships: "Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he [Wm Irvine] was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9.
He taught that every saved soul is indwelt by the Spirit of Christ; and that the life of Jesus, is the pattern for everyone to imitate and follow; and that the life of forsaking all for Christ's sake was the best to live. The fruits of that teaching resulted in farmers, shop keepers, domestic servants, school teachers, police, soldiers, and persons of every occupation forsaking all that they had to follow Jesus; and to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God."
2) Jack Carroll ( ex-overseer in Oregon, USA) - Sidney, Manitoba Convention - Monday Evening, November 9, 1914
"God is a trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Man is a trinity: body, soul, and spirit."
3) George Walker (1899 worker) www.trutharchive.net/george-walker---mccordsville-indiana---september-6-1975
You can't separate between the three persons in the Trinity because they are all one. They are used in this language to help our finite minds to understand Christ, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit suggests what a mother does for her children. He says, "When they put me on the cross, I will send the Holy Spirit, and He will be in you, teaching you, comforting you, and will be all that a mother could be to you. He can be closer to you than I can be in the flesh." God has made us in three parts, too. We say it is the body, soul, and the spirit. The Bible says sanctify spirit, soul, and body. The spirit is the part that God breathed in. You can't separate them.
4) Sam Charlton - The Word of God - Tacoma, Washington - 1958
God is a trinity and man is a trinity - body, soul, and spirit. It has been very wisely planned by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Heaven. They had a private conference and the subject was, “Let us create man in Our image and in Our Likeness.”
5) Leslie White (ex-overseer from Colorado, USA) 1st Oak Lodge Convention - Sunday morning, 2005
"One of the great mysteries that we have in our country and some of our Friends have been silly enough to have got involved in it, and that is that some try to explain the Trinity - The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, nobody can explain or understand that; none of us can understand that. No one can really, fully understand that, but we believe in those three and that they are one, but He is with God. He is God; He's not man; He's not an Angel; He's God-kind. He's like His Father; He's the Son. Just like a natural boy is like his dad, but he's not the dad, but he's got those qualities. He's God the Son; God the Father and God the Holy Ghost. "
6) elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee...
"Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living."
If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?Good grief Nathan. That's really stretching things. My grandfather never missed a convention in his long life. I'm sure he attended more than you have. He lived to be 89 and he professed when he was in his 30's so don't tell me he never sat in conventions. He didn't believe in the Trinity and that would have been something he believed if Willie Jamieson had taught the trinity. They spent 6 months living together on a ranch in the winter. Do you really think that the trinity might just not have come up and that's why my grandfather never believed in it? And he attended conventions from 1915 to somewhere in the 80's. I can't remember the actual year he died. That's a lot of conventions, special meetings, gospel meetings and still he never was taught the trinity doctrine. I know this because my grandfather and I had long talks about things. I was his only professing grandchild. He saw Jesus as an elder brother that was perfect and divine but not a God in a threesome.
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Post by snow on Dec 5, 2019 13:10:18 GMT -5
He was probably forbidden to read it. I'm waiting to hear that my book has been banned. I've been "invited" to take it to a book trade fair in London in the spring. I'm going to scratch up my pennies. I do not read books on faith at all. Bible is it! Man is so prone to get it WRONG! Oh and everyone thinks they are a author nowadays! 😆 But the bible was written by men.
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 13:11:40 GMT -5
I do not read books on faith at all. Bible is it! Man is so prone to get it WRONG! Oh and everyone thinks they are a author nowadays! 😆 But the bible was written by men. Not of any private interpretation- Men who were inspired by God- this involves the Holy Spirit.
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 13:13:50 GMT -5
Are you asking me for help with a BUSINESS decision? What are your sales?Maybe put up a pie chart for us that shows if it is selling anyplace.
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Post by snow on Dec 5, 2019 13:16:44 GMT -5
But the bible was written by men. Not of any private interpretation- Men who were inspired by God- this involves the Holy Spirit. I don't think it can be trusted because it's someone else's (man) interpretation of what the Holy Spirit says and we have already established that the Holy Spirit seems to tell different people on here different things. And, they are all very sure it comes straight from God, inspired and 100% correct, except it often isn't the same as someone else's interpretation. So I would say the bible has to be suspect also seeing as it's only men's interpretation and we know men are not infallible in their interpretation.
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 13:44:26 GMT -5
Not of any private interpretation- Men who were inspired by God- this involves the Holy Spirit. I don't think it can be trusted because it's someone else's (man) interpretation of what the Holy Spirit says and we have already established that the Holy Spirit seems to tell different people on here different things. And, they are all very sure it comes straight from God, inspired and 100% correct, except it often isn't the same as someone else's interpretation. So I would say the bible has to be suspect also seeing as it's only men's interpretation and we know men are not infallible in their interpretation. No, your are incorrect. Man wrote down what God told them.
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Post by nathan on Dec 5, 2019 13:49:19 GMT -5
*** We read in the book of Acts the apostles went in pairs, sometimes 3 because one companion had some thing need to be taken care of. When I was in the work I started out with one companion, but he went to special meetings in another state so, I went and joined the neighboring field pairs of workers. We were 3 domes for about a month. This happened to me 3 yrs! of having 3 workers together instead in pairs/two. Wally is my main companion because he is posting and reading and checking my post daily. Jetmech dues to work schedule he can only check in when he has time. Oh dear, that's isn't biblical is it! I thought it was wrong to do anything but 2x2? However, you seem to make allowances for it, so what do I know... ** A person has to read the gospels, Acts of the apostles and the epistles of the apostles and be in the work to understand these things.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 5, 2019 13:55:02 GMT -5
I don't think it can be trusted because it's someone else's (man) interpretation of what the Holy Spirit says and we have already established that the Holy Spirit seems to tell different people on here different things. And, they are all very sure it comes straight from God, inspired and 100% correct, except it often isn't the same as someone else's interpretation. So I would say the bible has to be suspect also seeing as it's only men's interpretation and we know men are not infallible in their interpretation. No, your are incorrect. Man wrote down what God told them. Does that mean that everything in the bible is true?
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 13:57:25 GMT -5
No, your are incorrect. Man wrote down what God told them. Does that mean that everything in the bible is true? All scripture was given by God. He will open up any particular pieces of it for you- all you need to do I seek his face.
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Post by Annan on Dec 5, 2019 14:05:39 GMT -5
I don't think it can be trusted because it's someone else's (man) interpretation of what the Holy Spirit says and we have already established that the Holy Spirit seems to tell different people on here different things. And, they are all very sure it comes straight from God, inspired and 100% correct, except it often isn't the same as someone else's interpretation. So I would say the bible has to be suspect also seeing as it's only men's interpretation and we know men are not infallible in their interpretation. No, your are incorrect. Man wrote down what God told them. That's what I've always been told. However... Here comes King James. A known woman hater. Does anyone know how the Bible changed in translation after King James? How do we know what has been changed through the centuries?
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 14:08:07 GMT -5
No, your are incorrect. Man wrote down what God told them. That's what I've always been told. However... Here comes King James. A known woman hater. Does anyone know how the Bible changed in translation after King James? How do we know what has been changed through the centuries? God will open up god word to you. He alone can bless it to your heart in a very real way, so that you know it is from him. He does that so kindly for me.
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 14:28:58 GMT -5
“How do we know what has been changed through the centuries? “ If you are lazy like I am you could watch Ridhard Dawkins who made himself a intellectually fat-headed (“fulfilled”) atheist and get off the bus as a 'carbon copy' of Dawkins. But if you have a little bit more self-respect you might listen to someone who has studied the transmission of the books of the Bible. But if you REALLY want to know for sure, you could get off your butt and lern the three main languages involved in the transmission of the books of the Bible, Hebrew, Greek and Latin – and then take a look at the Hebrew, Greek and Latin manuscripts used for each new copy of their previous manuscripts. Or you could just keep on asking, “How do we know what has been changed through the centuries?” Maybe someone will provide you with a satifactory answer that supplies you all you need to substantiate your already formed opinion implied within your question. (Final comp. “a few seconds ago”) Or- simply ask the God of all Languages to teach you his truth!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 5, 2019 14:40:43 GMT -5
You do realise the NC500 has made this part of the world somewhat congested of late? Hmph. This calls for a Gathering of the Clan. A call to arms to repel all those that use soap and wear trousers. Them there kilts must be mighty breezy about now! 😃
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Post by snow on Dec 5, 2019 14:43:33 GMT -5
gratu about an hour ago gratu said: “How do we know what has been changed through the centuries? “
If you are lazy like I am you could watch Ridhard Dawkins who made himself a intellectually fat-headed (“fulfilled”) atheist and get off the bus as a 'carbon copy' of Dawkins. But if you have a little bit more self-respect you might listen to someone who has studied the transmission of the books of the Bible.
But if you REALLY want to know for sure, you could get off your butt and lern the three main languages involved in the transmission of the books of the Bible, Hebrew, Greek and Latin – and then take a look at the Hebrew, Greek and Latin manuscripts used for each new copy of their previous manuscripts.
Or you could just keep on asking, “How do we know what has been changed through the centuries?” Maybe someone will provide you with a satifactory answer that supplies you all you need to substantiate your already formed opinion implied within your question.
(Final comp. “a few seconds ago”)
Well to start with the synoptic gospels weren't written by Matthew, Mark or Luke. We do know that for sure. The reason why they read a tad differently, for example the lineage of Christ is different in them, is because they each came from a different geographic location and therefore were influenced by the culture they were raised in. We also know that Mark, who is the oldest gospel, never had anything about the resurrection in it. After the resurrection was put in Luke and Matthew, it was then added to Mark. So that's one change right there that we do know about.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 5, 2019 14:43:59 GMT -5
No, your are incorrect. Man wrote down what God told them. That's what I've always been told. However... Here comes King James. A known woman hater. Does anyone know how the Bible changed in translation after King James? How do we know what has been changed through the centuries? But actually King James has little to do with the transcription of the scriptures into the King’s English, other then demanding the King’s English be used. There were very educated transcriptionists doing the work.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 5, 2019 14:51:33 GMT -5
Not of any private interpretation- Men who were inspired by God- this involves the Holy Spirit. I don't think it can be trusted because it's someone else's (man) interpretation of what the Holy Spirit says and we have already established that the Holy Spirit seems to tell different people on here different things. And, they are all very sure it comes straight from God, inspired and 100% correct, except it often isn't the same as someone else's interpretation. So I would say the bible has to be suspect also seeing as it's only men's interpretation and we know men are not infallible in their interpretation. Since I’ve listened to the Israeli-Christian speak about some of the OT prophecy and how some are being fulfilled right before our eyes, I decided to try and read study the books that are the prophets. And amazingly, I’m seeing more and more of their prophecies that are coming into being and I see some that were fulfilled in my time, etc. it just affirms to me that indeed the Bible is true, it is real. Humans just have no idea how to read it. One phrase U learned that helps in understanding is “What’s happening to Israel or to the Jews is one way the scriptures will be opened. That alone makes sense because Jesus told them that certain signs would be available but they had to pay heed to those signs. Many Christians want to buzz the Jews off; I’ve got news for them, what happened to the Hews makes a difference what happens to the Zgentilres
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Post by reborn on Dec 5, 2019 14:54:12 GMT -5
Or- simply ask the God of all Languages to teach you his truth! You arecorrect, of course, but you are telling people who do not believe that Goid exists to go get a Bible again (most of them have already tossed their old one out) and pray to a God they do not believe exists. They think they have an excuse in spite of the fact that THEY could look at manuscripts of manuscripts that show the very same text (with minor differences such as wording order, spelling easy to understand hand-copyist errors, etc.) back and back for thousands of years and actually change their unbelief of the reliability of the Bible they can purchase in English today. God has left THEM NO EXCUSES whatsoever. (Final comp. "a few seconds ago") The Bible is readily available on line now- Praying with a child like simple faith will connect you to God- the best next step that anyone could take! I do appreciate the fact that you have further studied out truth on your own though!
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Post by nathan on Dec 5, 2019 16:19:22 GMT -5
I don't think it can be trusted because it's someone else's (man) interpretation of what the Holy Spirit says and we have already established that the Holy Spirit seems to tell different people on here different things. And, they are all very sure it comes straight from God, inspired and 100% correct, except it often isn't the same as someone else's interpretation. So I would say the bible has to be suspect also seeing as it's only men's interpretation and we know men are not infallible in their interpretation. No, your are incorrect. Man wrote down what God told them. *** Amen, that is so TRUE when we read Paul, John, James, the author of the book Hebrews we can see God had given them revelation of His Truth and they WROTE it down in the epistles, the scrolls so people could learn and get help from reading them.
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Post by Annan on Dec 5, 2019 17:25:01 GMT -5
“How do we know what has been changed through the centuries? “, said Annan.If you are lazy like I am you could watch Ridhard Dawkins who made himself a intellectually fat-headed (“fulfilled”) atheist and get off the bus as a 'carbon copy' of Dawkins. But if you have a little bit more self-respect you might listen to someone who has studied the transmission of the books of the Bible. But if you REALLY want to know for sure, you could get off your butt and lern the three main languages involved in the transmission of the books of the Bible, Hebrew, Greek and Latin – and then take a look at the Hebrew, Greek and Latin manuscripts used for each new copy of their previous manuscripts. Or you could just keep on asking, “How do we know what has been changed through the centuries?” Maybe someone will provide you with a satifactory answer that supplies you all you need to substantiate your already formed opinion implied within your question. (Final comp. “a few seconds ago”) So what you are saying is that you don't know.
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