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Post by reborn on Dec 4, 2019 16:21:53 GMT -5
Unbelief is actually unbelievable!
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 4, 2019 16:47:37 GMT -5
Nathan is still looking for a mount to have a sermon on. And a companion. As far as I can see, his is a 1 x 1 ministry? I think it's a Trinity. Nathan claims Wally and jetmech as companions.
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 16:49:33 GMT -5
Unbelief is actually unbelievable! Before The children of Israel LEFT Egypt they had seen the power of God manifested before their eyes with the 10 players on the Eyptians. Many soon forget of God kindness and mercy on them when He opened the Red Sea and they walked on DRY ground. Because of their unbelief many of them over 20 yrs older didn't enter the promised land except a few adults entered. Just like today the unbelief/unbelievers will be left outside of the New heaven and new earth.
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Post by reborn on Dec 4, 2019 16:51:42 GMT -5
He is all of that and MORE! Absolutely - He is our only Savior for one more. And likewise, in the OT the "only Savior is "God." It appears you are well on your way to understanding the identity God gave in the Bible of Himself - in fact quite well on the way. As human beings we cannot know diddly about the only living God EXCEPT what He has revealed about Himself in His word. My help is from God! No thank you on your needing to correct me! I know in whom I have believed!
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Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 18:00:04 GMT -5
Thanks Gill, that just proves what I've been saying all along. As early as 1915 when my grandfather professed through Willie Jamieson he never taught that Jesus was God. It was always Jesus our elder brother. So just when did they quit teaching the Trinity. Before 1915 by the sounds of things if Willie didn't teach that doctrine to my grandfather.
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Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 18:05:00 GMT -5
Nathan is still looking for a mount to have a sermon on. And a companion. As far as I can see, his is a 1 x 1 ministry? Apparently he has declared a trinity workership with Wally and Jetmech.... I really am surprised that he has three companions since he is so adamant that all the workers go out 2x2 but hey, it was also news to me that heaven is in the interior of Venus. He knows all kinds of things I don't. Never even dreamed of even! edit - as I kept reading this thread I see that Nathan has confirmed this for me that he is part of a trinity Nathan, Jetmech and Wally. So what I just said is redundant... story of my life!
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Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 18:05:59 GMT -5
Perhaps he is planning on a trinity mission. He could start with this three....me, myself and I. I don't think so. Me, myself and I are all the one person. They have to be three separate persons making up the one being. Oh MY!! I am SO confused!!
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Post by Annan on Dec 4, 2019 18:17:54 GMT -5
I don't think so. Me, myself and I are all the one person. They have to be three separate persons making up the one being. Unless you have split personalities. Just saying.
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Post by reborn on Dec 4, 2019 18:20:31 GMT -5
Thanks Gill, that just proves what I've been saying all along. As early as 1915 when my grandfather professed through Willie Jamieson he never taught that Jesus was God. It was always Jesus our elder brother. So just when did they quit teaching the Trinity. Before 1915 by the sounds of things if Willie didn't teach that doctrine to my grandfather. Since he is not hear any longer to actually tell us what the fullness of his belief in God was- we don’t actually have that information. I love that he called Jesus by one of his correct names relationally to us which is elder brother- We can not make a broad and sweeping statement about all that he believed though.
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Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 18:24:08 GMT -5
Thanks Gill, that just proves what I've been saying all along. As early as 1915 when my grandfather professed through Willie Jamieson he never taught that Jesus was God. It was always Jesus our elder brother. So just when did they quit teaching the Trinity. Before 1915 by the sounds of things if Willie didn't teach that doctrine to my grandfather. Since he is not hear any longer to actually tell us what the fullness of his belief in God was- we don’t actually have that information. I love that he called Jesus by one of his correct names relationally to us which is elder brother- We can not make a broad and sweeping statement about all that be believed though. Well I can tell you what my grandfather and father believed. They were not taught the trinity. All I ever heard was that Jesus was our elder brother. And that is not a trinity belief, so I've been corrected. My grandfather professed through Willie Jamieson and he got his beliefs from him. They stayed a winter on my grandfather's ranch while in their area and so they would have had plenty of time to share ideas and teach my family what he believed. You're right when you say we can't know anyone's complete mind, but we can make some sensible hypotheses about what he believed if he never taught the Trinity. That's how I see it anyway.
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Post by reborn on Dec 4, 2019 18:30:07 GMT -5
Since he is not hear any longer to actually tell us what the fullness of his belief in God was- we don’t actually have that information. I love that he called Jesus by one of his correct names relationally to us which is elder brother- We can not make a broad and sweeping statement about all that be believed though. Well I can tell you what my grandfather and father believed. They were not taught the trinity. All I ever heard was that Jesus was our elder brother. And that is not a trinity belief, so I've been corrected. My grandfather professed through Willie Jamieson and he got his beliefs from him. They stayed a winter on my grandfather's ranch while in their area and so they would have had plenty of time to share ideas and teach my family what he believed. You're right when you say we can't know anyone's complete mind, but we can make some sensible hypotheses about what he believed if he never taught the Trinity. That's how I see it anyway. Using the word never- is usually not a good idea, unless we have the actual data to prove it. In this case we certainly do not. As far as what any individual believes, I strongly suggest we don’t just adopt other beliefs. Totally unsafe!
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Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 18:34:26 GMT -5
Well I can tell you what my grandfather and father believed. They were not taught the trinity. All I ever heard was that Jesus was our elder brother. And that is not a trinity belief, so I've been corrected. My grandfather professed through Willie Jamieson and he got his beliefs from him. They stayed a winter on my grandfather's ranch while in their area and so they would have had plenty of time to share ideas and teach my family what he believed. You're right when you say we can't know anyone's complete mind, but we can make some sensible hypotheses about what he believed if he never taught the Trinity. That's how I see it anyway. Using the word never- is usually not a good idea, unless we have the actual data to prove it. In this case we certainly do not. As far as what any individual believes, I strongly suggest we don’t just adopt other beliefs. Totally unsafe! You're right, the word never isn't a good choice. I would like to know how you think that you never adopt other people's beliefs though. I don't think that's possible. Take your belief that only God can be the author of your beliefs. Where did you get that belief. What started you praying to the Christian god in the first place. Someone else's belief that he might be the one to ask I would think. See what I mean?
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Post by mountain on Dec 4, 2019 18:40:30 GMT -5
I don't think so. Me, myself and I are all the one person. They have to be three separate persons making up the one being. Unless you have split personalities. Just saying. Not me. I was quoting Curlywurly from a Page 1 post.
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Post by reborn on Dec 4, 2019 18:41:45 GMT -5
Using the word never- is usually not a good idea, unless we have the actual data to prove it. In this case we certainly do not. As far as what any individual believes, I strongly suggest we don’t just adopt other beliefs. Totally unsafe! You're right, the word never isn't a good choice. I would like to know how you think that you never adopt other people's beliefs though. I don't think that's possible. Take your belief that only God can be the author of your beliefs. Where did you get that belief. What started you praying to the Christian god in the first place. Someone else's belief that he might be the one to ask I would think. See what I mean? I wish I could sit down and share my entire testimony to this point with you- I used to be a unbeliever until God himself overwhelming began to draw me to himself. The more that I felt this, the more I opened up my bible and began to read and pray. He had so kindly taught me so much! I hear him! That is how he works! He alone has taught me and continues to do so. I don’t trust anyone’s interpretation of anything anymore- I ask God about it !
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Post by snow on Dec 4, 2019 18:43:29 GMT -5
You're right, the word never isn't a good choice. I would like to know how you think that you never adopt other people's beliefs though. I don't think that's possible. Take your belief that only God can be the author of your beliefs. Where did you get that belief. What started you praying to the Christian god in the first place. Someone else's belief that he might be the one to ask I would think. See what I mean? I wish I could sit down and share my entire testimony to this point with you- I used to be a unbeliever until God himself overwhelming began to draw me to himself. The more that I felt this, the more I opened up my bible and began to read and pray. He had so kindly taught me so much! I hear him! That is how he works! He alone has taught me and continues to do so. I don’t trust anyone’s interpretation of anything anymore- I ask God about it ! Fair enough. You have obviously found something that works for you. Have you had your hug today!
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Post by mountain on Dec 4, 2019 18:45:45 GMT -5
You're right, the word never isn't a good choice. I would like to know how you think that you never adopt other people's beliefs though. I don't think that's possible. Take your belief that only God can be the author of your beliefs. Where did you get that belief. What started you praying to the Christian god in the first place. Someone else's belief that he might be the one to ask I would think. See what I mean? I wish I could sit down and share my entire testimony to this point with you- I used to be a unbeliever until God himself overwhelming began to draw me to himself. The more that I felt this, the more I opened up my bible and began to read and pray. He had so kindly taught me so much! I hear him! That is how he works! He alone has taught me and continues to do so. I don’t trust anyone’s interpretation of anything anymore- I ask God about it ! A dashed spiffing good way to go about it, Rebs. Keep it up!
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 4, 2019 18:55:20 GMT -5
I don't think so. Me, myself and I are all the one person. They have to be three separate persons making up the one being. Unless you have split personalities. Just saying. Kind of like meeting oneself coming & going upon a stair?
Antigonish
Hughes Mearns
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...
When I came home last night at three
The man was waiting there for me
But when I looked around the hall
I couldn't see him there at all!
Go away, go away, don't you come back any more!
Go away, go away, and please don't slam the door... (slam!)
Last night I saw upon the stair
A little man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
Oh, how I wish he'd go away...
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Post by Grant on Dec 4, 2019 19:16:18 GMT -5
You're right, the word never isn't a good choice. I would like to know how you think that you never adopt other people's beliefs though. I don't think that's possible. Take your belief that only God can be the author of your beliefs. Where did you get that belief. What started you praying to the Christian god in the first place. Someone else's belief that he might be the one to ask I would think. See what I mean? I wish I could sit down and share my entire testimony to this point with you- I used to be a unbeliever until God himself overwhelming began to draw me to himself. The more that I felt this, the more I opened up my bible and began to read and pray. He had so kindly taught me so much! I hear him! That is how he works! He alone has taught me and continues to do so. I don’t trust anyone’s interpretation of anything anymore- I ask God about it ! Were you brought up in meetings? Do you have family members who attend? Why would you otherwise choose to attend that particular church? I'm picking up that you do go there?
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Post by reborn on Dec 4, 2019 19:20:24 GMT -5
I wish I could sit down and share my entire testimony to this point with you- I used to be a unbeliever until God himself overwhelming began to draw me to himself. The more that I felt this, the more I opened up my bible and began to read and pray. He had so kindly taught me so much! I hear him! That is how he works! He alone has taught me and continues to do so. I don’t trust anyone’s interpretation of anything anymore- I ask God about it ! Were you brought up in meetings? Do you have family members who attend? Why would you otherwise choose to attend that particular church? I'm picking up that you do go there? I was born and raised in a professing home by very Godly parents. This was wonderful however salvation is personal and I did not know God personally. I was a unbeliever for many years until God in his kindness drew me to himself and taught me. I profess now! I have many generations of my family that do profess.
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 19:21:53 GMT -5
And a companion. As far as I can see, his is a 1 x 1 ministry? Apparently he has declared a trinity workership with Wally and Jetmech.... I really am surprised that he has three companions since he is so adamant that all the workers go out 2x2 but hey, it was also news to me that heaven is in the interior of Venus. He knows all kinds of things I don't. Never even dreamed of even! edit - as I kept reading this thread I see that Nathan has confirmed this for me that he is part of a trinity Nathan, Jetmech and Wally. So what I just said is redundant... story of my life! *** We read in the book of Acts the apostles went in pairs, sometimes 3 because one companion had some thing need to be taken care of. When I was in the work I started out with one companion, but he went to special meetings in another state so, I went and joined the neighboring field pairs of workers. We were 3 domes for about a month. This happened to me 3 yrs! of having 3 workers together instead in pairs/two. Wally is my main companion because he is posting and reading and checking my post daily. Jetmech dues to work schedule he can only check in when he has time.
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Post by speak on Dec 4, 2019 19:51:13 GMT -5
You're right, the word never isn't a good choice. I would like to know how you think that you never adopt other people's beliefs though. I don't think that's possible. Take your belief that only God can be the author of your beliefs. Where did you get that belief. What started you praying to the Christian god in the first place. Someone else's belief that he might be the one to ask I would think. See what I mean? I wish I could sit down and share my entire testimony to this point with you- I used to be a unbeliever until God himself overwhelming began to draw me to himself. The more that I felt this, the more I opened up my bible and began to read and pray. He had so kindly taught me so much! I hear him! That is how he works! He alone has taught me and continues to do so. I don’t trust anyone’s interpretation of anything anymore- I ask God about it ! My feelings also, who better could teach us? none.
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Post by speak on Dec 4, 2019 19:53:07 GMT -5
I wish I could sit down and share my entire testimony to this point with you- I used to be a unbeliever until God himself overwhelming began to draw me to himself. The more that I felt this, the more I opened up my bible and began to read and pray. He had so kindly taught me so much! I hear him! That is how he works! He alone has taught me and continues to do so. I don’t trust anyone’s interpretation of anything anymore- I ask God about it ! A dashed spiffing good way to go about it, Rebs. Keep it up! Jollie good show i'd say, what?
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 20:05:16 GMT -5
Thanks Gill, that just proves what I've been saying all along. As early as 1915 when my grandfather professed through Willie Jamieson he never taught that Jesus was God. It was always Jesus our elder brother. So just when did they quit teaching the Trinity. Before 1915 by the sounds of things if Willie didn't teach that doctrine to my grandfather. Since he is not hear any longer to actually tell us what the fullness of his belief in God was- we don’t actually have that information. I love that he called Jesus by one of his correct names relationally to us which is elder brother- We can not make a broad and sweeping statement about all that he believed though. ** I posted Leo Stancliff 's sermon in the past asking Willie Jamieson Is Jesus God? And his answered was "Yes." Let me find the Leo's sermon and posted it again.
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 4, 2019 20:34:25 GMT -5
Since he is not hear any longer to actually tell us what the fullness of his belief in God was- we don’t actually have that information. I love that he called Jesus by one of his correct names relationally to us which is elder brother- We can not make a broad and sweeping statement about all that be believed though. Well I can tell you what my grandfather and father believed. They were not taught the trinity. All I ever heard was that Jesus was our elder brother. And that is not a trinity belief, so I've been corrected. My grandfather professed through Willie Jamieson and he got his beliefs from him. They stayed a winter on my grandfather's ranch while in their area and so they would have had plenty of time to share ideas and teach my family what he believed. You're right when you say we can't know anyone's complete mind, but we can make some sensible hypotheses about what he believed if he never taught the Trinity. That's how I see it anyway. Agree snow, my great grandmother professed in 1912/13 and I know what was passed down to my Grandmother about the "trinity". You only have to go on FB groups like True Friends and mention the Trinity to see what they believe.
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Post by reborn on Dec 4, 2019 20:41:00 GMT -5
Well I can tell you what my grandfather and father believed. They were not taught the trinity. All I ever heard was that Jesus was our elder brother. And that is not a trinity belief, so I've been corrected. My grandfather professed through Willie Jamieson and he got his beliefs from him. They stayed a winter on my grandfather's ranch while in their area and so they would have had plenty of time to share ideas and teach my family what he believed. You're right when you say we can't know anyone's complete mind, but we can make some sensible hypotheses about what he believed if he never taught the Trinity. That's how I see it anyway. Agree snow, my great grandmother professed in 1912/13 and I know what was passed down to my Grandmother about the "trinity". You only have to go on FB groups like True Friends and mention the Trinity to see what they believe. One can only individually speak of their own beliefs. No one can speak for the Friends and Workers as a whole! They don’t have that information! Only God does!
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 4, 2019 20:53:13 GMT -5
Agree snow, my great grandmother professed in 1912/13 and I know what was passed down to my Grandmother about the "trinity". You only have to go on FB groups like True Friends and mention the Trinity to see what they believe. One can only individually speak of their own beliefs. No one can speak for the Friends and Workers as a whole! They don’t have that information! Only God does! reborn I know what I was told from my Grandmother and what her views were on the trinity. I have sat in enough meetings, missions and Conventions to know what the Workers teach about the trinity doctrine !!
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Post by reborn on Dec 4, 2019 20:55:34 GMT -5
One can only individually speak of their own beliefs. No one can speak for the Friends and Workers as a whole! They don’t have that information! Only God does! reborn I know what I was told from my Grandmother and what her views were on the trinity. I have sat in enough meetings, missions and Conventions to know what the Workers teach about the trinity doctrine !! You may think that you know what some of the workers believe, however you do not have the ability to know what they all think!
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 20:59:50 GMT -5
One can only individually speak of their own beliefs. No one can speak for the Friends and Workers as a whole! They don’t have that information! Only God does! reborn I know what I was told from my Grandmother and what her views were on the trinity. I have sat in enough meetings, missions and Conventions to know what the Workers teach about the trinity doctrine !! RT, it seems you, MANY of the friends, the workers and your grandmother have NOT sat in these workers sermons at conventions speaking and teaching about the TRINITY.
Many of the early 2x2 workers and some current workers preached and believed in the TRI-UNITY and Jesus is God the Son.
John Long's (2x2 worker from 1898-1907) Journal in 1899 wrote:
William Irvine's Doctrines & Leaderships: "Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he [Wm Irvine] was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9.
He taught that every saved soul is indwelt by the Spirit of Christ; and that the life of Jesus, is the pattern for everyone to imitate and follow; and that the life of forsaking all for Christ's sake was the best to live. The fruits of that teaching resulted in farmers, shop keepers, domestic servants, school teachers, police, soldiers, and persons of every occupation forsaking all that they had to follow Jesus; and to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God."
2) Jack Carroll ( ex-overseer in Oregon, USA) - Sidney, Manitoba Convention - Monday Evening, November 9, 1914
"God is a trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Man is a trinity: body, soul, and spirit."
3) George Walker (1899 worker) www.trutharchive.net/george-walker---mccordsville-indiana---september-6-1975
You can't separate between the three persons in the Trinity because they are all one. They are used in this language to help our finite minds to understand Christ, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit suggests what a mother does for her children. He says, "When they put me on the cross, I will send the Holy Spirit, and He will be in you, teaching you, comforting you, and will be all that a mother could be to you. He can be closer to you than I can be in the flesh." God has made us in three parts, too. We say it is the body, soul, and the spirit. The Bible says sanctify spirit, soul, and body. The spirit is the part that God breathed in. You can't separate them.
4) Sam Charlton - The Word of God - Tacoma, Washington - 1958
God is a trinity and man is a trinity - body, soul, and spirit. It has been very wisely planned by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Heaven. They had a private conference and the subject was, “Let us create man in Our image and in Our Likeness.”
5) Leslie White (ex-overseer from Colorado, USA) 1st Oak Lodge Convention - Sunday morning, 2005
"One of the great mysteries that we have in our country and some of our Friends have been silly enough to have got involved in it, and that is that some try to explain the Trinity - The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, nobody can explain or understand that; none of us can understand that. No one can really, fully understand that, but we believe in those three and that they are one, but He is with God. He is God; He's not man; He's not an Angel; He's God-kind. He's like His Father; He's the Son. Just like a natural boy is like his dad, but he's not the dad, but he's got those qualities. He's God the Son; God the Father and God the Holy Ghost. "
6) elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee...
"Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living."
If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?Attachments:
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