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Post by mountain on Dec 3, 2019 17:22:26 GMT -5
Why o' why did they keep it from us? Why did they not tell us?
For years I firmly believed we had no name. We did refer to ourselves as 'The Meetings,' or the Truth or The Way.
Now I learn we had a real name after all. The Church with no name, is actually called The Sunday Trinity Worship Meetings!
Can anyone please answer me....why didn't they tell us? Why did they keep it from us? Why did they find it necessary to hide their name?
How often in the past I deflected names like Cooneyites when people tried to label us. Dippers, Tramps, etc. All well fielded because we didn't take a name.
Why, why, why, did they keep it from us. The Sunday Trinity Worship Meetings!
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 3, 2019 19:49:58 GMT -5
Why o' why did they keep it from us? Why did they not tell us? For years I firmly believed we had no name. We did refer to ourselves as 'The Meetings,' or the Truth or The Way. Now I learn we had a real name after all. The Church with no name, is actually called The Sunday Trinity Worship Meetings! Can anyone please answer me....why didn't they tell us? Why did they keep it from us? Why did they find it necessary to hide their name? How often in the past I deflected names like Cooneyites when people tried to label us. Dippers, Tramps, etc. All well fielded because we didn't take a name. Why, why, why, did they keep it from us. The Sunday Trinity Worship Meetings! 😜😃😊😃 Well it seems once again that the 2x2s needed nathan to reveal all these things to them !!! Just think of all those that died before nathan was even born who thought the same as you !
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Post by nathan on Dec 3, 2019 22:32:18 GMT -5
Why o' why did they keep it from us? Why did they not tell us? For years I firmly believed we had no name. We did refer to ourselves as 'The Meetings,' or the Truth or The Way. Now I learn we had a real name after all. The Church with no name, is actually called The Sunday Trinity Worship Meetings! Can anyone please answer me....why didn't they tell us? Why did they keep it from us? Why did they find it necessary to hide their name? How often in the past I deflected names like Cooneyites when people tried to label us. Dippers, Tramps, etc. All well fielded because we didn't take a name. Why, why, why, did they keep it from us. The Sunday Trinity Worship Meetings! 😜😃😊😃 Well it seems once again that the 2x2s needed nathan to reveal all these things to them !!! Just think of all those that died before nathan was even born who thought the same as you ! It is very simple to UNDERSTAND if you understand the history of it and THINK about it! ... The New Testament worship in I Cor. chapters 11-14 We read the Christian come together in the home of believers to Worship the Godhead on the 1st day of the week= Sunday to worship God the Father, to Remembering Christ/God their Savior life, death and resurrection and the Holy Spirit as their comforter/teacher/counselor and Protector.
The early days workers believed and taught the TRINITY= Jesus is God, the Father is God so is the Holy God. Most of the early workers came from many different Protestant denomination and RCC, they were TRINITY, Jesus is God believers. When they established Sunday morning worship meetings for the fellowship they had the TRINITY as their foundation in mind= Worshipping God the Father, Christ, and Holy Spirit in mind.
In 1951 the Senior workers during this time were lack in understanding about the Trinity and who Jesus was, they delete and removed hymns that said three are one, Jesus God to Jesus the Lord. The word TRINITY became a curse word among the 2x2s. They taught the friends the TRINITY is the RCC doctrine. The TRINITY is the devils and Pagans teachings!
Detailed Account of Truitt's beliefs are on TTT: Montana Division 1989-1990
First few paragraphs: This Account concerns three brother Workers born and raised in the State of Montana:
1. John R. Starkweather, born in 1924, son of John, Katie Starkweather, entered the work in Montana in 1954, age 30.
2. Truitt E. Oyler, born in 1946, son of Enos and Bette Oyler, entered in the work in Montana around 1966, about age twenty one (21 yrs). His first companion was John Starkweather.
3. Walter J. Oyler, Truitt’s oldest brother, was born in 1940, entered the work in Montana in 1961, when he was about twenty (20) years old.
All three men had entered the work in their native state and were preaching in Montana under the Overseer Tom Lyness. Tom was an Irishman who professed in Ireland in 1902, entered the work in 1903, and came to Canada in 1905. In 1915, Tom was the first Worker who began preaching in Montana where he stayed until his death in 1970, age 87 years. Tom and his sister Annie are buried in Manhattan, Montana and share the same tombstone. (View Tombstone) Upon Tom's death in 1970, the field of Montana and Northern Wyoming were combined with Oregon/ Southern Idaho under the responsibility of Howard Mooney.
In 1967, when Truitt had been in the work about three years, he and his companion, John, were overheard discussing the scripture. They were unaware that sister Worker (possibly Blanche Curtis) was also in the house until she came into the room where they were. She was very upset and did not agree with their interpretation. From childhood on, these three men had sat in gospel missions held by early Workers, such as Tom Lyness, his sister Annie, Nellie Williams, Vernon Myers and others. According to reliable sources, Truitt asserted they heard the doctrine the sister worker questioned preached by Tom Lyness and other early workers and that what the three men taught was no different; i.e. that Jesus was divine and could not sin.
On the other hand, the sister Worker believed Jesus was human just like she was. Many but not all Friends and Workers believe that Jesus could have sinned and lost his salvation, but was only able to live a sinless life by the power of the Holy Spirit and suffering, self denial and by cutting off sinful thoughts and lust in his mind.
This sister Worker became very determined that Truitt, Walter and John would be put out of the work and she eventually succeeded. They were accused of believing and teaching “false doctrine” also called “divisive doctrine.” Their alleged beliefs came to be commonly known as “Truitt’s Doctrine,” but few knew exactly what that doctrine really entailed. Truitt’s Doctrine was reported to have been some or all of the following: that Jesus was divine, that Jesus could not be tempted to sin, that Jesus was God, the doctrine of “Original Sin” related to the doctrine of “The Fall,” and perhaps more. Their beliefs will be discussed more fully below.
In or about 1967, when John had been in the work for about 13 years, Walter for about 5-6 years, and Truitt for about 3 years, a tribunal meeting was called which culminated in the three men being dismissed from the work. Paul Abenroth was present in this meeting and provided this description: “Three or four of us young bucks happened to be included in a meeting in about 1967 in the house at Olympia, Washington Convention when a number of Workers met with the two Oyler boys and John Starkweather regarding their doctrinal understanding.
In attendance were Willie Jamieson, Tharold Sylvester, Howard Mooney, Ernest Nelson, Charlie Krub, Bob Ingram, Ralph Sines, Dennis Jacobsen, Scott Vail, Margaret Robertson, Blanche Curtis and some others. (Note: the first four men were the Overseers of California, Washington, Oregon and Western Canada, respectively) No hymns were sung, no prayers offered -- mainly statements of accusation and warnings against the two Oylers and John.
You can rest assured that us younger ones went away with a clear understanding of what we might be in for if we in any way sympathized with the views held by the three fellows who were the subject of the meeting that day. I will highlight two or three points...
ONE: It must be understood from the outset that the Friends and Workers do not teach or possibly even understand the orthodox Christian concept of the Fall. It all starts from there. Since these three did teach the Fall, they were at odds with the Friends and Workers right from the start.
TWO: Accompanying the orthodox concept of the Fall is the orthodox teaching that Jesus assumed a pre-fall human nature that was perfect and sinless just as Adam was perfect and sinless before the Fall, and further, that given His person and nature as the Son of God he could not sin. This also put them at odds with the Friends and Workers. The Friends and Workers always misunderstood this. When they heard those men say that Jesus could not sin, they interpreted that as meaning he did not have a human nature. The only human nature the Friends ever knew about was a sinful one. Many could not grasp that the orthodox teaching was that the Pre-fall human nature of Adam was also sinless.
THREE: The Workers rejected the idea of a Fall, claiming that a Fall would have required God to change his mind and send Jesus as an afterthought, not according to his original plan. Tharold used to flatly state, ‘Adam's sin was not a Fall, but rather an expose.’
FOUR: The bottom line was that word got around that these things the men were teaching were taught by the Catholic Church. For the Workers that settled it. They could not have any Catholic teaching among them. [NOTE: I do not warrant that I have represented them 100% accurately, but only that this is my understanding after many visits with them.]
The Workers did not disclose to the men the nature of their offenses, other than to say that they were causing division through divisive doctrine they taught. The Overseers claimed they had some private incriminating papers, but it was not anything the men had written. They were convicted on hearsay. Sometime after the meeting Truitt was sent to Washington and John to California. Not long after, all three men were expelled from the work for teaching “divisive doctrine.”
About five years later in, perhaps in 1973, both John and Truitt signed letters agreeing not to teach their "divisive doctrine." John and Truitt were reinstated in the work and sent to other fields. Walter did not return to the work. John was sent to Texas in 1973 where Hubert Childers was the Overseer; and Truitt went to Alaska in 1974 where Bob Ingram was the Overseer. Both men were highly regarded in their new fields and were soon given more responsibility. John became Overseer of Louisiana in 1978 and then Overseer of Texas from 1983 to 1986. Truitt became a senior brother Worker in Alaska.
After he was reinstated in the work, Truitt was admonished over the years several times by Workers for continuing to teach his doctrine. After a meeting held in Seattle in October, 1989, Truitt was sent to Alberta, Canada to be with Willis Propp: "We were also disappointed to hear that there is a division in the ministry caused by a few of the Alaska Workers bringing into Washington the influence of the doctrine that Truitt has been teaching in Alaska. This type of division has previously been evident in other areas where Truitt has labored. We had a long visit with Truitt in hope that he would see the damage that had been done. It has been decided that Truitt would go to Alberta with Willis Propp in hope that he could help him see where his doctrine has been in error" (Oct. 3, 1989 letter to Our dear Alaska Friends signed by Tharold Sylvester, Eldon Tenniswood, Ernest Nelson, Howard Mooney).
In April, 1990, Truitt was told he must “step aside” from the ministry for teaching “divisive doctrine.” He was about 44 years old. Truitt’s name was on a Workers list for the last time on the first 1989-1990 Alaska Workers List. The revised November, 1989-1990 Alaska Workers List did not include the names of Truitt or Bob Ingram. The following statement was prepared listing the reasons and conditions:
www.tellingthetruth.info/history_divisions/montana.php
~~ The current workers and the friends see the TRINITY is the RCC doctrine and despised it with all their hearts! BUT what they don't UNDERSTAND is the early days workers believed and taught the Trinity/Jesus is God. They established Sunday MORNING in 1902! with the TRINITY worship in minds, of God the Father, Christ our Savior, and Holy Spirit.
The word TRINITY is a curse word among the 2x2s but they Worship the TRINITY every Sunday Morning worship meetings and they DON'T even KNOW it.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 22:38:16 GMT -5
Yes, sadly many went thru some horrible things because of their beliefs. The good news is that now we are seeing the results of those who stood true to what God had revealed to them.
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Post by nathan on Dec 3, 2019 22:46:20 GMT -5
Yes, sadly many went thru some horrible things because of their beliefs. The good news is that now we are seeing the results of those who stood true to what God had revealed to them. Hopefully, our generation of the friends and workers and the NEXT generation can change the last 70 years workers errors, mistakes on The Trinity is a heresy and devil/Pagan doctrine! Before it gets worse.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 22:48:15 GMT -5
Yes, sadly many went thru some horrible things because of their beliefs. The good news is that now we are seeing the results of those who stood true to what God had revealed to them. Hopefully, our generation of the friends and workers and the NEXT generation can change the last 70 years workers errors, mistakes on The Trinity is a heresy and devil/Pagan doctrine! Before it gets worse.Revelation from God!
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Post by nathan on Dec 3, 2019 22:57:21 GMT -5
Hopefully, our generation of the friends and workers and the NEXT generation can change the last 70 years workers errors, mistakes on The Trinity is a heresy and devil/Pagan doctrine! Before it gets worse. Revelation from God! God the Father, Christ, and The Holy Spirit need and want us to speak UP! the Truth in Jesus. Like John the apostle he wrote these things in the gospel of John, his epistles and in the book of Revelation. There were believers in his days were anti-Christ and God showed John the apostle revelation of the Godhead= Father, Christ and Holy Spirit so he could HELP others to understand the Godhead clearly. So, His children can TRULY worship God/Elohim on earth and in heaven.
John wrote II John 5:7-8 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one in agreement. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 3, 2019 23:09:34 GMT -5
Well there you have it mountain !! Its all about to change !!! I just wonder where all those people who professed in the early 1900s that DID NOT believe in the trinity will end up ? Goodness me some lived and died before nathan was even a 2x2 ....!!!
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 3, 2019 23:11:34 GMT -5
Hopefully, our generation of the friends and workers and the NEXT generation can change the last 70 years workers errors, mistakes on The Trinity is a heresy and devil/Pagan doctrine! Before it gets worse. Revelation from God! So why didn't God reveal it to the Workers 70 years ago ? Surely if they are the only right way God would have make sure they preached what was right reborn ?
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 23:20:31 GMT -5
I don’t speak for others. Or God.
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 3, 2019 23:24:25 GMT -5
I don’t speak for others. Or God. So how do you know they will get a revelation ? How do you know that they believe in the trinity ?
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 23:25:40 GMT -5
Revelation comes from seeking out the truth from God.Achievable for all.
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 3, 2019 23:30:58 GMT -5
Revelation comes from seeking out the truth from God.Achievable for all. Therefore why didn't the Workers get a revelation from God about the trinity ? Surely the Workers would have been "seeking the truth" from God ?
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 23:35:26 GMT -5
Can’t say that they didn’t!
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 4, 2019 0:11:39 GMT -5
Can’t say that they didn’t! So why didn't they preach it reborn ? Why were we raised to believe that the trinity is a false Catholic doctrine
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 1:33:44 GMT -5
So why didn't God reveal it to the Workers 70 years ago ? Surely if they are the only right way God would have make sure they preached what was right reborn ? God tried to tell them through the workers who believe and taught the TRINITY and some were excommunicated from the work, and that put FEAR on the workers who believed in the TRINITY to keep quite it. NOT anymore the cat is out of the bag, RT. The Teaching of the TRINITY/Jesus is God will flourish once again within the 2x2s group in the near future.
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 1:37:42 GMT -5
I don’t speak for others. Or God. So how do you know they will get a revelation ? How do you know that they believe in the trinity ? BY attending the Sunday TRINITY worship= God the Father, Christ/God, and Holy Spirit. They partake the emblems, singing hymns, pray and give adoration to Christ, God the Father and the Holy Spirit/Godhead.
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 1:39:51 GMT -5
Can’t say that they didn’t! So why didn't they preach it reborn ? Why were we raised to believe that the trinity is a false Catholic doctrine MANY early days workers believed and preached the TRINITY and Jesus is God..... Because you and those in your generation believed in the workers who taught incorrect teachings, and you didn't question what they teach! If the BLIND leads the blinds BOTH shall fall into the DITCH. You were sheep follow them blindly.
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 4, 2019 1:53:48 GMT -5
So why didn't they preach it reborn ? Why were we raised to believe that the trinity is a false Catholic doctrine MANY early days workers believed and preached the TRINITY and Jesus is God..... Because you and those in your generation believed in the workers who taught incorrect teachings, and you didn't question what they teach! If the BLIND leads the blinds BOTH shall fall into the DITCH. You were sheep follow them blindly. nathan there were way more than my generation who believed the Workers !!! You still believe the Workers today !
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 4, 2019 1:59:41 GMT -5
So why didn't God reveal it to the Workers 70 years ago ? Surely if they are the only right way God would have make sure they preached what was right reborn ? God tried to tell them through the workers who believe and taught the TRINITY and some were excommunicated from the work, and that put FEAR on the workers who believed in the TRINITY to keep quite it. NOT anymore the cat is out of the bag, RT. The Teaching of the TRINITY/Jesus is God will flourish once again within the 2x2s group in the near future. If that was the case nathan surely God would have revealed to the other Workers that the trinity was right? As for the trinity doctrine flourishing in the future....I think maybe you are jumping the gun on that !!!
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 2:16:13 GMT -5
MANY early days workers believed and preached the TRINITY and Jesus is God..... Because you and those in your generation believed in the workers who taught incorrect teachings, and you didn't question what they teach! If the BLIND leads the blinds BOTH shall fall into the DITCH. You were sheep follow them blindly. nathan there were way more than my generation who believed the Workers !!! You still believe the Workers today ! Yes, I believe in the workers if their teachings are in line with the teaching of Jesus. If what they teach are NOT in line with Jesus teaching I throw their ideas out in the garbage.
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 4, 2019 2:19:42 GMT -5
nathan there were way more than my generation who believed the Workers !!! You still believe the Workers today ! Yes, I believe in the workers if their teachings are in line with the teaching of Jesus. If what they teach are NOT in line with Jesus teaching I throw their ideas out in the garbage.So are the Workers teaching in line with Jesus as far as him living in Venus nathan ? Yes I know you do,that is why I question why you even belong to the 2x2 church !
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 2:20:00 GMT -5
God tried to tell them through the workers who believe and taught the TRINITY and some were excommunicated from the work, and that put FEAR on the workers who believed in the TRINITY to keep quite it. NOT anymore the cat is out of the bag, RT. The Teaching of the TRINITY/Jesus is God will flourish once again within the 2x2s group in the near future. If that was the case nathan surely God would have revealed to the other Workers that the trinity was right? As for the trinity doctrine flourishing in the future....I think maybe you are jumping the gun on that !!! God is revealing the errors of the anti-Trinity and Jesus is God and more and more current workers and friends don't want to follow that wrong path. Time will tell who is jumping the gun, I see more and more of the friends and workers are believing the Trinity and Jesus is God the last 5 yrs... Things are improving than 10 yrs ago.
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 4, 2019 2:24:56 GMT -5
If that was the case nathan surely God would have revealed to the other Workers that the trinity was right? As for the trinity doctrine flourishing in the future....I think maybe you are jumping the gun on that !!! God is revealing the errors of the anti-Trinity and Jesus is God and more and more current workers and friends don't want to follow that wrong path. Time will tell who is jumping the gun, I see more and more of the friends and workers are believing the Trinity and Jesus is God the last 5 yrs... Things are improving than 10 yrs ago.You didn't answer my question nathan !!! Surely if God wanted all the Workers to preach the trinity he would have revealed that to all of them years ago??? As for more F&Ws believing the trinity, I think a good indication of this is the views by people on the Friends FB pages.... Aand they sure are not accepting the trinity !
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 2:26:11 GMT -5
Yes, I believe in the workers if their teachings are in line with the teaching of Jesus. If what they teach are NOT in line with Jesus teaching I throw their ideas out in the garbage. So are the Workers teaching in line with Jesus as far as him living in Venus ? Yes I know you do that is why I question why you even belong to the 2x2 church ! God the Father, Christ, the Holy Spirit, all of the angels including Satan are from Interior Venus planet will be accepted among the 2x2 maybe AFTER Jesus returns to rule. After my death, I Try will you send you all an email where I will be staying/Venus, if God allowed me to do. I would NOT be surprised ALL of Old and New Testament believers souls are waiting in the planet of Venus! Before they appear with Christ in the sky.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 2:28:39 GMT -5
So are the Workers teaching in line with Jesus as far as him living in Venus ? Yes I know you do that is why I question why you even belong to the 2x2 church ! God the Father, Christ, the Holy Spirit, all of the angels including Satan are from Interior Venus planet will be accepted among the 2x2 maybe AFTER Jesus returns to rule. After my death, I Try will you send you all an email where I will be staying/Venus, if God allowed me to do. I would NOT be surprised ALL of Old and New Testament believers souls are waiting in the planet of Venus! Before they appear with Christ in the sky.definitely send an email to the atheists and agnostics on this board it would make their hearts beat faster for sure...
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 2:29:01 GMT -5
God is revealing the errors of the anti-Trinity and Jesus is God and more and more current workers and friends don't want to follow that wrong path. Time will tell who is jumping the gun, I see more and more of the friends and workers are believing the Trinity and Jesus is God the last 5 yrs... Things are improving than 10 yrs ago. You didn't answer my question nathan !!! Surely if God wanted all the Workers to preach the trinity he would have revealed that to all of them years ago??? As for more F&Ws believing the trinity, I think a good indication of this is the views by people on the Friends FB pages.... Aand they sure are not accepting the trinity ! Like I said God tried to but most of them would NOT listen. Those workers were stubborn and now most of the friends paid the price to be known world wide as anti-Christ people.
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Post by nathan on Dec 4, 2019 2:30:56 GMT -5
God the Father, Christ, the Holy Spirit, all of the angels including Satan are from Interior Venus planet will be accepted among the 2x2 maybe AFTER Jesus returns to rule. After my death, I Try will you send you all an email where I will be staying/Venus, if God allowed me to do. I would NOT be surprised ALL of Old and New Testament believers souls are waiting in the planet of Venus! Before they appear with Christ in the sky. definitely send an email to the atheists and agnostics on this board it would make their hearts beat faster for sure... hahaha... definitely they might croak before their time. I will try to post in red letters so they KNOW it would be me.
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