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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 9, 2018 15:13:28 GMT -5
true but Jesus and his parents did not go to egypt seeking entitlements nor did they behave(as far as we know) outside of the laws of egypt either I.E commit rape, robbery or assault...etc..etc... You're right. I expect Joseph and Mary stopped by the Egyptian embassy in Jerusalem and waited for their criminal records check to clear so they could present their documentation when they arrived at the border crossing. Are you for freaking real? Who walks 2000 km just to rape someone or rob someone? Use your head. Joseph and Mary took him to Egypt because his life was threatened in Palestine. Refugees are running away from violence, not bringing it with them. It's a stupid conclusion to come to if you really stop to think about it. This bears repeating! Post of the week.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 9, 2018 15:19:11 GMT -5
true but Jesus and his parents did not go to egypt seeking entitlements nor did they behave(as far as we know) outside of the laws of egypt either I.E commit rape, robbery or assault...etc..etc... Pretty sure the vast majority of refugees coming here aren't seeking "entitlements"...they're seeking a safe place to live, work and raise their families where they don't have to fear being beaten, jailed, bombed or beheaded. Where they will have access to health care and education for their children. In some Muslim countries, girls are not allowed to receive an education past being able to write their name. Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for benefits like Welfare, food stamps, or Medicaid. The crime argument doesn't work for me either. We have our share of citizens committing these crimes...and I have seen no statistical evidence that leads me to believe crime rates rise directly because of immigration or refugees. In fact, there are studies that reveal quite the opposite: that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than natives. I found this interesting to read through: The Integration of Immigrants Into American Society. I identify as a conservative on most issues, but this is one where my views do not align at all with my party. I would encourage you to do a little digging into actual #'s rather than just believe your party's rhetoric. I don't know why we are supposed to fear these people...I can't even imagine having to leave my home and most of my belongings to flee thousands of miles with my 3 small children because it is no longer safe for us to be there. And then basically be stuck in a filthy, unsafe camp because no one will let us try to make a better life for ourselves anywhere else... What would you propose as the solution to their predicament? If you don't want them here, and if they are unable to return to their homes because they fear for their lives, what should they do? I've had the privilege of speaking with some S. American refugees. I asked them why they came here, knowing perfectly well they could soon be in trouble with different gov. Agencies. The reply was, "All we want to do is to have a job where we can raise our families up without worrying about drug cartels killers wiping you and some of your family off the map. The only way to prevent that in our birth country is to be a killer for the drug cartels. It's a matter of killing or being killed."
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Post by speak on Nov 9, 2018 16:06:40 GMT -5
And pray tell, why do you need to know anyway? What I am saying is that all the time, -40 some years,-that I was in the fellowship besides growing up in it, - none of us ever heard of any communal effort by the fellowship to help others in need.And in saying that you are saying it doesn't happen? Most of us are individual givers and none need to know this. I also know that monies left over at the end of the year have been given to the Red cross in this country.
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Post by Gene on Nov 9, 2018 20:39:31 GMT -5
Rumour has it that Lloyd Wilson was an exception. He is reported to have used money the friends gave him to send to organizations helping unfortunate children--which, if not a true communal effort, it did use communal funds, in a way, though without the knowledge of those providing the funds! Rumour also has it that he got in trouble for it with others in the church. Here I go, spreading gossip. CherieKropp , have you heard anything like that about Lloyd? No, I've not heard what you expressed...but... I did hear that after a tour on South America conv. rounds, that when he returned he saved every penny he could and sent it to SA. He became extremely frugal. I always assumed he sent it to workers, but do not know for sure...now that you mention it, he could have been sending it to organizations for helping children. A younger companion of his told me that when Lloyd's shoe soles wore out, he would re-sole them himself with used tire threads. Also that he rarely paid for any gas for the car--stayed in the car, which forced the younger companion to pay for it after gassing up. With all due respect, Lloyd was one of a kind! Never met anyone else like him in my life. He was in charge of Mississippi when we moved there in 1958 and oversaw the construction of the conv. facilities. My family was around him a LOT. Perhaps Christopher J. has heard something related to this?
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Post by Lee on Nov 9, 2018 20:54:05 GMT -5
Reading through the comments by the "Christians" who reside in the United States I get the impression that your version of christianity is not the same as the one that Jesus espoused. Thankfully there are still people out there in many countries making a few fish and a bit of bread go a long way. In America some of the christians grew up a little and decided they were entitled to a home here on this planet as much as anyone. Do you imagine Jesus was a bleeding heart? Wherefore his statement, "The poor you always have with you". How could he be a Christ and be so calloused? Because he was a realist, and the realist knows unredeemed man's not a pretty animal.
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Post by Lee on Nov 9, 2018 20:56:16 GMT -5
That's way too convenient an explanation. Do you really want more people choking up the Las Vegas and Los Angeles, Sacramento, and San Joaquin valleys? Isnt that where most immigrants land? It's where I live, anyway. Do you want a liberal immigration policy in bad economic times and good ones? Do you have a optimal number, a cap, on sustainable populations, per square mile? The matter of immigration and refuges is a human problem. The human being is a motley animal apart from redeeming acculturation, and apart from improbable exceptions, incapable of self governance. Too bad god didn't judeaize and christianize all nations. That's how I see the problem. All of this country's major problems are much greater than the ones you listed. But if you need a cause to promote, you're quite entitled to pick anything you want -- no matter what your motivation. Not in the land of good ideas. Good ideas last. Fiction bites the dust.
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Post by Gene on Nov 9, 2018 20:58:41 GMT -5
All of this country's major problems are much greater than the ones you listed. But if you need a cause to promote, you're quite entitled to pick anything you want -- no matter what your motivation. Not in the land of good ideas. Good ideas last. Fiction bites the dust. The best fiction is rooted in reality. Read Shakespeare. It lasts.
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Post by Lee on Nov 9, 2018 21:11:12 GMT -5
He was a realist.
I told my dad I was an agnostic.
I believe in God but I don't know what his will is.
Especially for this planet.
I've never understood why mainstream Christianity including 2x2s tends to categorically dismiss secular salvation.
Leave it to a few backwards christian sects or cults to entertain a redeemed planet.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 9, 2018 21:17:48 GMT -5
Not in the land of good ideas. Good ideas last. Fiction bites the dust. The best fiction is rooted in reality. Read Shakespeare. It lasts. Don't forget that top seller the bible. For fiction it is on a par with another poorly written book,Fifty shades of grey which also sold well.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 9, 2018 21:26:15 GMT -5
What I am saying is that all the time, -40 some years,-that I was in the fellowship besides growing up in it, - none of us ever heard of any communal effort by the fellowship to help others in need. And in saying that you are saying it doesn't happen? Most of us are individual givers and none need to know this. I also know that monies left over at the end of the year have been given to the Red cross in this country. YES! I AM are saying it DIDN'T happen! NOT on any collective effort by a group of people!
HOW do YOU know that the "monies left over at the end of the year have been given to the Red cross in this country?"
Are YOU one of those who are in charge of the exchequer?
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Post by Lee on Nov 9, 2018 22:41:59 GMT -5
The best fiction is rooted in reality. Read Shakespeare. It lasts. Don't forget that top seller the bible. For fiction it is on a par with another poorly written book,Fifty shades of grey which also sold well. The bible is dialectic fiction. You atheists can find fault with it because that's what you do. It was better than no witness at all to the truth. Snap...that's right, the Jews exist to this day. Snap... Christians arrived on the scene right about the time what was his name... Jesus? Jesus appeared?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 9, 2018 22:52:32 GMT -5
Don't forget that top seller the bible. For fiction it is on a par with another poorly written book,Fifty shades of grey which also sold well. The bible is dialectic fiction. You atheists can find fault with it because that's what you do. It was better than no witness at all to the truth. Snap...that's right, the Jews exist to this day. Snap... Christians arrived on the scene right about the time what was his name... Jesus? Jesus appeared? Creation story..fiction Flood story fiction Jonah and the whale story fiction Resurrection story fiction. Revelation story... fiction on steroids
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Post by Lee on Nov 9, 2018 23:00:38 GMT -5
The best explanation concerning the origin of Christianity is that signs miracles and wonders attended the man, in conjunction with and complementary to his ministry.
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Post by speak on Nov 9, 2018 23:02:01 GMT -5
And in saying that you are saying it doesn't happen? Most of us are individual givers and none need to know this. I also know that monies left over at the end of the year have been given to the Red cross in this country. YES! I AM are saying it DIDN'T happen! NOT on any collective effort by a group of people!
HOW do YOU know that the "monies left over at the end of the year have been given to the Red cross in this country?"
Are YOU one of those who are in charge of the exchequer? I am just wondering how on earth you would know there has been no collective effort made in our fellowship? Yes I know of collective efforts in this country, will not disclose. I know, that should be enough for you.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 10, 2018 0:10:37 GMT -5
What I am saying is that all the time, -40 some years,-that I was in the fellowship besides growing up in it, - none of us ever heard of any communal effort by the fellowship to help others in need. And in saying that you are saying it doesn't happen? Most of us are individual givers and none need to know this. I also know that monies left over at the end of the year have been given to the Red cross in this country. I've known of workers who gave monies to those in emergent need. The parties involved weren't professing at the time. When they tried to pay back the monies they didn't want it but when told if they knew of someone else in need to go that direction with it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 10, 2018 0:39:32 GMT -5
YES! I AM are saying it DIDN'T happen! NOT on any collective effort by a group of people!
HOW do YOU know that the "monies left over at the end of the year have been given to the Red cross in this country?"
Are YOU one of those who are in charge of the exchequer? I am just wondering how on earth you would know there has been no collective effort made in our fellowship? Yes I know of collective efforts in this country, will not disclose. I know, that should be enough for you. We had a South American overseer at our convention one year, and he discussed giving to charity. His point was that it was appropriate for the friends to give to charity if they did it the same way they give to the workers, secretly. But the workers, living on charitable contributions, were not at liberty to pass the friends' money on to another charity.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 10, 2018 0:48:37 GMT -5
And in saying that you are saying it doesn't happen? Most of us are individual givers and none need to know this. I also know that monies left over at the end of the year have been given to the Red cross in this country. I've known of workers who gave monies to those in emergent need. The parties involved weren't professing at the time. When they tried to pay back the monies they didn't want it but when told if they knew of someone else in need to go that direction with it. I have known of workers who have given to professing people, and I have known of workers refusing to accept money from professing people who they considered needed the money more than the workers did. But more recently I've heard a worker saying that he couldn't refuse money offered by a very poor man because he would be denying the man of his privilege to "give his best". But then -- there are different kinds of workers.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 10, 2018 0:56:08 GMT -5
YES! I AM are saying it DIDN'T happen! NOT on any collective effort by a group of people!
HOW do YOU know that the "monies left over at the end of the year have been given to the Red cross in this country?"
Are YOU one of those who are in charge of the exchequer? I am just wondering how on earth you would know there has been no collective effort made in our fellowship? Yes I know of collective efforts in this country, will not disclose. I know, that should be enough for you. Why is it so difficult to understand? Any "collective effort" means many people have to be aware of it happening, -even if they didn't participate.
I have difficulty understanding why it seems to be so difficult for you to understand what I am saying!
All of the time I was growing up, -all the 40-50 years that I was professing, -I NEVER knew of such a "collective effort" made, -even to help anyone WITHIN the fellowship, let alone anyone OUTSIDE.
Perhaps, it is different NOW.
If it is, -then I say good, -that it is about time!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 1:03:07 GMT -5
I am just wondering how on earth you would know there has been no collective effort made in our fellowship? Yes I know of collective efforts in this country, will not disclose. I know, that should be enough for you. Why is it so difficult to understand? Any "collective effort" means many people have to be aware of it happening, -even if they didn't participate. What I am saying seems easily understood. All of the time I was growing up, -all the 40-50 years that I was professing I was NEVER aware of such a "collective effort"maybe you just were not as informed as you thought you were...
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 10, 2018 1:07:44 GMT -5
Why is it so difficult to understand? Any "collective effort" means many people have to be aware of it happening, -even if they didn't participate. What I am saying seems easily understood. All of the time I was growing up, -all the 40-50 years that I was professing I was NEVER aware of such a "collective effort"maybe you just were not as informed as you thought you were... BULL sh-,
WALLY, -HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU KNOW OF A COLLECTIVE EFFORT BY PEOPLE PROFESSING TO GET FUNDS TOGETHER FOR A CHARITY ?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 10, 2018 1:10:29 GMT -5
I am just wondering how on earth you would know there has been no collective effort made in our fellowship? Yes I know of collective efforts in this country, will not disclose. I know, that should be enough for you. Why is it so difficult to understand? Any "collective effort" means many people have to be aware of it happening, -even if they didn't participate.
I have difficulty understanding why it seems to be so difficult for you to understand what I am saying!
All of the time I was growing up, -all the 40-50 years that I was professing, -I NEVER knew of such a "collective effort" made, -even to help anyone WITHIN the fellowship, let alone anyone OUTSIDE.
Perhaps, it is different NOW.
If it is, -then I say good, -that it is about time! I agree. It was common enough to hear a worker preaching that their ministry was not a ministry of "welfare", but a ministry of salvation. They made enough fun of other missionaries who ran charitable institutions.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 10, 2018 1:15:37 GMT -5
As the two by twos are pretty close in it, they are able to do things together without much Todo that would alert those whom likely shouldn't it couldn't be involved.
An example, when I lived in Kansas, seems we had funeral after funeral. There would be workers and friends who came long miles for the funeral. In order to get these distance folks back on the road toward home it was always an effort brought about that would feed them while allowing some quick visiting for the bereaved and those visitors esp the workers. Often I was organist, but still we had a small group who had gotten a meal planned and set to start eating even before they got back from cenetery. Usually it was my sis, Frances Allen and myself. Sometimes friends from Topeka helped.
But anytime anyone needed a quick dinner fixed, the call came and it was a joint effort and done. There was no need calling everyone in the roster, just those who were known could get it done quickly.
Other deeds of need were handled quit the same. No big deal to call a large batch of people, but one here and there and anyone able to be in the mix, got notified in all good time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 1:17:30 GMT -5
maybe you just were not as informed as you thought you were... BULL sh-,
WALLY, -HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU KNOW OF A COLLECTIVE EFFORT BY PEOPLE PROFESSING TO GET FUNDS TOGETHER FOR A CHARITY ?well we did have one instance of a fire that devastated one of the friends and it was recommended to donate to a charitable fund setup by a local bank to help them rebuild...
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 10, 2018 1:57:40 GMT -5
Don't forget that top seller the bible. For fiction it is on a par with another poorly written book,Fifty shades of grey which also sold well. The bible is dialectic fiction. You atheists can find fault with it because that's what you do. It was better than no witness at all to the truth. Snap...that's right, the Jews exist to this day. Snap... Christians arrived on the scene right about the time what was his name... Jesus? Jesus appeared? Lee, I think that you seem to forget that as atheist it isn't just the bible and it's gods that I find unbelievable and it's ideas abhorrent at times, but any of the numerous religious books and their gods/godesses are not believable either. Mythical literature can be interesting reading but not so for believing.
No, -the bible is NOT "better than no witness at all to the truth!" Why does the fact that the Jews exist to this day have anything to do with TRUTH?
Certainly just because Jesus & Christians "arrived" is no indication of any TRUTH!
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 10, 2018 2:04:43 GMT -5
As the two by twos are pretty close in it, they are able to do things together without much Todo that would alert those whom likely shouldn't it couldn't be involved. An example, when I lived in Kansas, seems we had funeral after funeral. There would be workers and friends who came long miles for the funeral. In order to get these distance folks back on the road toward home it was always an effort brought about that would feed them while allowing some quick visiting for the bereaved and those visitors esp the workers. Often I was organist, but still we had a small group who had gotten a meal planned and set to start eating even before they got back from cenetery. Usually it was my sis, Frances Allen and myself. Sometimes friends from Topeka helped. But anytime anyone needed a quick dinner fixed, the call came and it was a joint effort and done. There was no need calling everyone in the roster, just those who were known could get it done quickly. Other deeds of need were handled quit the same. No big deal to call a large batch of people, but one here and there and anyone able to be in the mix, got notified in all good time. Yes, STR, but I don't think that is what we are talking about.
That seems to be a part of a 2x2 kind of funeral "ritual?" and no doubt other churches as well.
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Post by Lee on Nov 10, 2018 9:06:08 GMT -5
The bible is dialectic fiction. You atheists can find fault with it because that's what you do. It was better than no witness at all to the truth. Snap...that's right, the Jews exist to this day. Snap... Christians arrived on the scene right about the time what was his name... Jesus? Jesus appeared? Lee, I think that you seem to forget that as atheist it isn't just the bible and it's gods that I find unbelievable and it's ideas abhorrent at times, but any of the numerous religious books and their gods/godesses are not believable either. Mythical literature can be interesting reading but not so for believing.
No, -the bible is NOT "better than no witness at all to the truth!" Why does the fact that the Jews exist to this day have anything to do with TRUTH?
Certainly just because Jesus & Christians "arrived" is no indication of any TRUTH!There are three fundamental unctions that determine a nation's or people's prosperity which the Judeo-Christian heritage roughly supplies. A respect for law, and a presumption or a mechanism (democracy) to ensure that laws are habilitative. A proportionate response to violations of the law, for no law perfectly addresses the material-spiritual needs of the complex entity of the human being. While present in the Judeo tradition, Grace is more popularly associated with Christianity. A national, ethnic, or cultural sense of identity, to hang or to flesh out a people upon its foundational ideas. Indeed, the world today is seeing a crisis between national and global identity. If Globalism will be honest and not elitist it will reckon with all of the challenges of redeeming primitivism. I don't how to make sense of it all, in the context of the filthy rich bastards as related on this thread. (are they running us to profit off us, including our pathetic attempts at sound religion)?
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Post by speak on Nov 10, 2018 15:22:27 GMT -5
maybe you just were not as informed as you thought you were... BULL sh-,
WALLY, -HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU KNOW OF A COLLECTIVE EFFORT BY PEOPLE PROFESSING TO GET FUNDS TOGETHER FOR A CHARITY ?tut tut angry much. Why is it that you think you are so correct every time? Why is it that you feel that you have to shout so much about what others believe/know? is it because you consider your knowledge the only true knowledge?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 10, 2018 16:14:11 GMT -5
BULL sh-,
WALLY, -HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU KNOW OF A COLLECTIVE EFFORT BY PEOPLE PROFESSING TO GET FUNDS TOGETHER FOR A CHARITY ? well we did have one instance of a fire that devastated one of the friends and it was recommended to donate to a charitable fund setup by a local bank to help them rebuild... But that wasn't a public charity -- it was only intended for the benefit of professing people.
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