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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 7, 2018 22:57:37 GMT -5
Why hasnt current imigration policy been enforced? Why must a nations policies be politicized, apart from a cultural assumption, that some nations have it "going on" according to a progressive assumption, that others lack? The current immigration law (not policy) was not enforced because the policy was to ignore the criminal responsibility of the Americans who kept hiring them and rehiring them when they came back -- because the American employers were contributing political supporters and the American public enjoyed the benefit of their undocumented status in the country. The present situation is really more complicated than that. Reforming the immigration legislation to address the country's needs is in fact wildly unpopular and thus almost politically impossible. And retroactively attempting to correct the past decades of inappropriately addressing the immigration needs has come back to bite them -- it's devastating the well established lives to hundreds of thousands of American-born citizens as well as hundreds of thousands of hard-working undocumented relatives who have invested most of their lives in service to the American society. One huge error the present administration is to call all undocumented immigrants illegals. The present law actually allows permanent residency to undocumented immigrants that are here for 10 years without any referral to the courts. That law is presently being horribly abused - I can explain it if you want. The other error the present administration is making is ignoring completely the present law about refugees and asylum seekers, and discussing them in terms of an invading force. It's costing the country far more than it would to just follow the law in this case.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 23:02:43 GMT -5
We just spent an hour and a half tonight in conversation with a couple from our church who have been working in the refugee camps on the Greek island of Lesvos for the past 3 months. They are both retired teachers and are now working with an organization to provide some basic education for the children in the camps.
These are people who have had to leave their homes, jobs and families in order to survive. They have seen their towns bombed, people they know beheaded. They have left almost everything behind and traveled across countries, some with small children. When they reach the coast of Turkey, smugglers pack dozens of them into boats with "life jackets" and they attempt to make it to Lesvos. Some don't make it...if they survive, they try again but some don't even survive. When they get there they ask for a taxi to Athens because they have no idea where they really are.
There are around 7,000 people crammed into a 15 acre camp. Some have been there for over a year. They thought they would be able to get into Europe, but now Europe is closed. It is likely they will either stay in Greece or be deported back to Turkey unless something changes.
To call it a disaster is an understatement. Why the world has turned their back on these people, I cannot understand...there is no excuse. Jesus said when we provide food, drink or clothing to those who are without, and we welcome the stranger, it's like we are doing it TO Jesus Himself. And vice versa...NOT providing for those without and NOT welcoming the stranger is like doing that to Jesus. The Message translation words it this way: "Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was me—you failed to do it to me." That's a pretty big deal.......
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 23:29:27 GMT -5
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Post by speak on Nov 7, 2018 23:48:16 GMT -5
How about you answer my question first then I will tell what you want to know. Not that concerned about how you feel about them. So after making a to do about them, now you are not concerned, why? maybe it's because you can't answer mine because you made a lie about me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 0:48:39 GMT -5
not to the detriment of oneself or ones country. i also question whether or not stranger/foreigner means refugee in the bible.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 8, 2018 0:57:36 GMT -5
not to the detriment of oneself or ones country. i also question whether or not stranger/foreigner means refugee in the bible. Jesus was a child refugee, if that helps.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 8, 2018 0:58:43 GMT -5
Not that concerned about how you feel about them. So after making a to do about them, now you are not concerned, why? maybe it's because you can't answer mine because you made a lie about me. Why? Because I don't want to have a protracted silly banter session with you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 1:01:35 GMT -5
not to the detriment of oneself or ones country. i also question whether or not stranger/foreigner means refugee in the bible. Jesus was a child refugee, if that helps. true but Jesus and his parents did not go to egypt seeking entitlements nor did they behave(as far as we know) outside of the laws of egypt either I.E commit rape, robbery or assault...etc..etc...
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 8, 2018 1:12:26 GMT -5
Jesus was a child refugee, if that helps. true but Jesus and his parents did not go to egypt seeking entitlements nor did they behave(as far as we know) outside of the laws of egypt either I.E commit rape, robbery or assault...etc..etc... You're right. I expect Joseph and Mary stopped by the Egyptian embassy in Jerusalem and waited for their criminal records check to clear so they could present their documentation when they arrived at the border crossing. Are you for freaking real? Who walks 2000 km just to rape someone or rob someone? Use your head. Joseph and Mary took him to Egypt because his life was threatened in Palestine. Refugees are running away from violence, not bringing it with them. It's a stupid conclusion to come to if you really stop to think about it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 10:35:38 GMT -5
Jesus was a child refugee, if that helps. true but Jesus and his parents did not go to egypt seeking entitlements nor did they behave(as far as we know) outside of the laws of egypt either I.E commit rape, robbery or assault...etc..etc... Pretty sure the vast majority of refugees coming here aren't seeking "entitlements"...they're seeking a safe place to live, work and raise their families where they don't have to fear being beaten, jailed, bombed or beheaded. Where they will have access to health care and education for their children. In some Muslim countries, girls are not allowed to receive an education past being able to write their name. Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for benefits like Welfare, food stamps, or Medicaid. The crime argument doesn't work for me either. We have our share of citizens committing these crimes...and I have seen no statistical evidence that leads me to believe crime rates rise directly because of immigration or refugees. In fact, there are studies that reveal quite the opposite: that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than natives. I found this interesting to read through: The Integration of Immigrants Into American Society. I identify as a conservative on most issues, but this is one where my views do not align at all with my party. I would encourage you to do a little digging into actual #'s rather than just believe your party's rhetoric. I don't know why we are supposed to fear these people...I can't even imagine having to leave my home and most of my belongings to flee thousands of miles with my 3 small children because it is no longer safe for us to be there. And then basically be stuck in a filthy, unsafe camp because no one will let us try to make a better life for ourselves anywhere else... What would you propose as the solution to their predicament? If you don't want them here, and if they are unable to return to their homes because they fear for their lives, what should they do?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 11:55:34 GMT -5
Jesus was a child refugee, if that helps. true but Jesus and his parents did not go to egypt seeking entitlements nor did they behave(as far as we know) outside of the laws of egypt either I.E commit rape, robbery or assault...etc..etc... Definitely need to keep criminals like this out of our country. We can't have them coming here to mooch off of us REAL Americans... The story behind the photo of the little girl crying in the migrant caravanMeanwhile, the Trump administration has been meeting this week to block those seeking asylum, restricting their ability to make a credible fear claim. Gotta stop the invasion!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 11:56:35 GMT -5
true but Jesus and his parents did not go to egypt seeking entitlements nor did they behave(as far as we know) outside of the laws of egypt either I.E commit rape, robbery or assault...etc..etc... Who walks 2000 km just to rape someone or rob someone? ask those german women who have been raped by muslim men since they have arrived...get real....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 11:59:32 GMT -5
true but Jesus and his parents did not go to egypt seeking entitlements nor did they behave(as far as we know) outside of the laws of egypt either I.E commit rape, robbery or assault...etc..etc... Pretty sure the vast majority of refugees coming here aren't seeking "entitlements"...they're seeking a safe place to live, work and raise their families where they don't have to fear being beaten, jailed, bombed or beheaded. Where they will have access to health care and education for their children. In some Muslim countries, girls are not allowed to receive an education past being able to write their name. Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for benefits like Welfare, food stamps, or Medicaid. The crime argument doesn't work for me either. We have our share of citizens committing these crimes...and I have seen no statistical evidence that leads me to believe crime rates rise directly because of immigration or refugees. In fact, there are studies that reveal quite the opposite: that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than natives. I found this interesting to read through: The Integration of Immigrants Into American Society. I identify as a conservative on most issues, but this is one where my views do not align at all with my party. I would encourage you to do a little digging into actual #'s rather than just believe your party's rhetoric. I don't know why we are supposed to fear these people...I can't even imagine having to leave my home and most of my belongings to flee thousands of miles with my 3 small children because it is no longer safe for us to be there. And then basically be stuck in a filthy, unsafe camp because no one will let us try to make a better life for ourselves anywhere else... What would you propose as the solution to their predicament? If you don't want them here, and if they are unable to return to their homes because they fear for their lives, what should they do? they should arm themselves and go back and take over thier own country and there are people who would arm them maybe costly but still could be done...
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Post by snow on Nov 8, 2018 12:41:55 GMT -5
We just spent an hour and a half tonight in conversation with a couple from our church who have been working in the refugee camps on the Greek island of Lesvos for the past 3 months. They are both retired teachers and are now working with an organization to provide some basic education for the children in the camps. These are people who have had to leave their homes, jobs and families in order to survive. They have seen their towns bombed, people they know beheaded. They have left almost everything behind and traveled across countries, some with small children. When they reach the coast of Turkey, smugglers pack dozens of them into boats with "life jackets" and they attempt to make it to Lesvos. Some don't make it...if they survive, they try again but some don't even survive. When they get there they ask for a taxi to Athens because they have no idea where they really are. There are around 7,000 people crammed into a 15 acre camp. Some have been there for over a year. They thought they would be able to get into Europe, but now Europe is closed. It is likely they will either stay in Greece or be deported back to Turkey unless something changes. To call it a disaster is an understatement. Why the world has turned their back on these people, I cannot understand...there is no excuse. Jesus said when we provide food, drink or clothing to those who are without, and we welcome the stranger, it's like we are doing it TO Jesus Himself. And vice versa...NOT providing for those without and NOT welcoming the stranger is like doing that to Jesus. The Message translation words it this way: "Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was me—you failed to do it to me." That's a pretty big deal....... Canada has been taking in a lot of people actually. Our Prime Minster is getting flack from some people in our country about how many we've taken in, but someone does need to help. We are currently staying in a hotel in Southern Manitoba where there are several Syrian refugee families living in kitchenettes that our government are subsidizing. Those who doesn't like the money spent are complaining, but if anyone talks to these people I am all for it and I don't have any problem with my tax dollars being spent on something more useful than a politicians retirement fund!!
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Post by speak on Nov 8, 2018 14:24:11 GMT -5
So after making a to do about them, now you are not concerned, why? maybe it's because you can't answer mine because you made a lie about me. Why? Because I don't want to have a protracted silly banter session with you. drip
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 8, 2018 22:40:38 GMT -5
true but Jesus and his parents did not go to egypt seeking entitlements nor did they behave(as far as we know) outside of the laws of egypt either I.E commit rape, robbery or assault...etc..etc... Pretty sure the vast majority of refugees coming here aren't seeking "entitlements"...they're seeking a safe place to live, work and raise their families where they don't have to fear being beaten, jailed, bombed or beheaded. Where they will have access to health care and education for their children. In some Muslim countries, girls are not allowed to receive an education past being able to write their name. Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for benefits like Welfare, food stamps, or Medicaid. The crime argument doesn't work for me either. We have our share of citizens committing these crimes...and I have seen no statistical evidence that leads me to believe crime rates rise directly because of immigration or refugees. In fact, there are studies that reveal quite the opposite: that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than natives. I found this interesting to read through: The Integration of Immigrants Into American Society. I identify as a conservative on most issues, but this is one where my views do not align at all with my party. I would encourage you to do a little digging into actual #'s rather than just believe your party's rhetoric. I don't know why we are supposed to fear these people...I can't even imagine having to leave my home and most of my belongings to flee thousands of miles with my 3 small children because it is no longer safe for us to be there. And then basically be stuck in a filthy, unsafe camp because no one will let us try to make a better life for ourselves anywhere else... What would you propose as the solution to their predicament? If you don't want them here, and if they are unable to return to their homes because they fear for their lives, what should they do? It is not just undocumented immigrants who are deprived of welfare services in this country. I came here as a legal permanent resident, and I was informed that I would not be eligible for any of those services for 5 years. My daughter worked in a social assistance office for a while, and she told me that is true. I have never accessed social assistance, but I did become eligible after 3 years -- because I became a US citizen after three years. When it happens that people have no humanitarian refugee answer, you know that their problem with refugees is a racial/ethnic problem.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 9, 2018 3:57:32 GMT -5
Who walks 2000 km just to rape someone or rob someone? ask those german women who have been raped by muslim men since they have arrived...get real.... We have learned to expect this from Wally.
He takes a few cases that are in the minority and extrapolates it to make it sound as if it is the majority.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 9, 2018 4:06:56 GMT -5
Well, you are right in one thing.
You must not make "a big do about it."
Because it wasn't very well known.
It must not be a communal affair with others in the fellowship or we would have known wouldn't we? And pray tell, why do you need to know anyway? What I am saying is that all the time, -40 some years,-that I was in the fellowship besides growing up in it, - none of us ever heard of any communal effort by the fellowship to help others in need.
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Post by Gene on Nov 9, 2018 5:27:27 GMT -5
And pray tell, why do you need to know anyway? What I am saying is that all the time, -40 some years,-that I was in the fellowship besides growing up in it, - none of us ever heard of any communal effort by the fellowship to help others in need.Rumour has it that Lloyd Wilson was an exception. He is reported to have used money the friends gave him to send to organizations helping unfortunate children--which, if not a true communal effort, it did use communal funds, in a way, though without the knowledge of those providing the funds! Rumour also has it that he got in trouble for it with others in the church. Here I go, spreading gossip. CherieKropp, have you heard anything like that about Lloyd?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2018 6:26:03 GMT -5
ask those german women who have been raped by muslim men since they have arrived...get real.... We have learned to expect this from Wally.
He takes a few cases that are in the minority and extrapolates it to make it sound as if it is the majority. yeah right over 1000 women were sexually assaulted on new years by migrants in colonge and hamburg alone and thats a few too you? typical feminist crap to downplay what you don't want to hear or know and upplay the likes of 4 accusers of kavanaugh as if its the end of the world....you should have your feminist card revoked....
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Post by Lee on Nov 9, 2018 7:56:33 GMT -5
Pretty sure the vast majority of refugees coming here aren't seeking "entitlements"...they're seeking a safe place to live, work and raise their families where they don't have to fear being beaten, jailed, bombed or beheaded. Where they will have access to health care and education for their children. In some Muslim countries, girls are not allowed to receive an education past being able to write their name. Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for benefits like Welfare, food stamps, or Medicaid. The crime argument doesn't work for me either. We have our share of citizens committing these crimes...and I have seen no statistical evidence that leads me to believe crime rates rise directly because of immigration or refugees. In fact, there are studies that reveal quite the opposite: that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than natives. I found this interesting to read through: The Integration of Immigrants Into American Society. I identify as a conservative on most issues, but this is one where my views do not align at all with my party. I would encourage you to do a little digging into actual #'s rather than just believe your party's rhetoric. I don't know why we are supposed to fear these people...I can't even imagine having to leave my home and most of my belongings to flee thousands of miles with my 3 small children because it is no longer safe for us to be there. And then basically be stuck in a filthy, unsafe camp because no one will let us try to make a better life for ourselves anywhere else... What would you propose as the solution to their predicament? If you don't want them here, and if they are unable to return to their homes because they fear for their lives, what should they do? It is not just undocumented immigrants who are deprived of welfare services in this country. I came here as a legal permanent resident, and I was informed that I would not be eligible for any of those services for 5 years. My daughter worked in a social assistance office for a while, and she told me that is true. I have never accessed social assistance, but I did become eligible after 3 years -- because I became a US citizen after three years. When it happens that people have no humanitarian refugee answer, you know that their problem with refugees is a racial/ethnic problem. That's way too convenient an explanation. Do you really want more people choking up the Las Vegas and Los Angeles, Sacramento, and San Joaquin valleys? Isnt that where most immigrants land? It's where I live, anyway. Do you want a liberal immigration policy in bad economic times and good ones? Do you have a optimal number, a cap, on sustainable populations, per square mile? The matter of immigration and refuges is a human problem. The human being is a motley animal apart from redeeming acculturation, and apart from improbable exceptions, incapable of self governance. Too bad god didn't judeaize and christianize all nations. That's how I see the problem.
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Post by CherieKropp on Nov 9, 2018 8:43:26 GMT -5
What I am saying is that all the time, -40 some years,-that I was in the fellowship besides growing up in it, - none of us ever heard of any communal effort by the fellowship to help others in need. Rumour has it that Lloyd Wilson was an exception. He is reported to have used money the friends gave him to send to organizations helping unfortunate children--which, if not a true communal effort, it did use communal funds, in a way, though without the knowledge of those providing the funds! Rumour also has it that he got in trouble for it with others in the church. Here I go, spreading gossip. CherieKropp , have you heard anything like that about Lloyd? No, I've not heard what you expressed...but... I did hear that after a tour on South America conv. rounds, that when he returned he saved every penny he could and sent it to SA. He became extremely frugal. I always assumed he sent it to workers, but do not know for sure...now that you mention it, he could have been sending it to organizations for helping children. A younger companion of his told me that when Lloyd's shoe soles wore out, he would re-sole them himself with used tire threads. Also that he rarely paid for any gas for the car--stayed in the car, which forced the younger companion to pay for it after gassing up. With all due respect, Lloyd was one of a kind! Never met anyone else like him in my life. He was in charge of Mississippi when we moved there in 1958 and oversaw the construction of the conv. facilities. My family was around him a LOT.
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Post by Lee on Nov 9, 2018 8:46:39 GMT -5
reality check:
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Post by xna on Nov 9, 2018 9:46:13 GMT -5
Yet a few very rich families in the world could make a big difference. Saudi royal family 1,400 Billion Dollars. Rothschild 350 Billion Dollars Walton family 130 Billion Dollars Koch family 100 Billion Dollars ----------- $1,980 Billion Dollars Also from the bible god could make a big difference. "Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things." If you believe the god of the bible, he also can make manna fall from heaven, & make loaves and fish multiply. In stark contrast to these myths is the problem of evil, where millions starve and die.
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Post by Lee on Nov 9, 2018 10:01:08 GMT -5
Welcome to the demon.
I think demons run the planet, don't you.
What's a de-mon anyway, but an anti-man.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2018 12:09:18 GMT -5
i've seen this before and its very good....generally goes right over the head of liberals though...common sense does that.....
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 9, 2018 13:28:14 GMT -5
It is not just undocumented immigrants who are deprived of welfare services in this country. I came here as a legal permanent resident, and I was informed that I would not be eligible for any of those services for 5 years. My daughter worked in a social assistance office for a while, and she told me that is true. I have never accessed social assistance, but I did become eligible after 3 years -- because I became a US citizen after three years. When it happens that people have no humanitarian refugee answer, you know that their problem with refugees is a racial/ethnic problem. That's way too convenient an explanation. Do you really want more people choking up the Las Vegas and Los Angeles, Sacramento, and San Joaquin valleys? Isnt that where most immigrants land? It's where I live, anyway. Do you want a liberal immigration policy in bad economic times and good ones? Do you have a optimal number, a cap, on sustainable populations, per square mile? The matter of immigration and refuges is a human problem. The human being is a motley animal apart from redeeming acculturation, and apart from improbable exceptions, incapable of self governance. Too bad god didn't judeaize and christianize all nations. That's how I see the problem. All of this country's major problems are much greater than the ones you listed. But if you need a cause to promote, you're quite entitled to pick anything you want -- no matter what your motivation.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 9, 2018 13:56:08 GMT -5
Reading through the comments by the "Christians" who reside in the United States I get the impression that your version of christianity is not the same as the one that Jesus espoused. Thankfully there are still people out there in many countries making a few fish and a bit of bread go a long way.
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