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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 22, 2017 23:09:56 GMT -5
I never said anyone was asking us to accomplish that. You see my name and read it as though I'm being combative. YOU SAID that Kim Jong In shouldn't have been allowed to arm himself as he is, and I ASKED YOU how that might have been accomplished, seeing that the US has tried for decades to prevent it -- to no avail. If previous administrations had applied the sanctions now imposed, NK wouldn't have been able to get the weapons they now have. You haven't caught on yet. Sanctions don't work on NK. The leaders of NK let their people starve to death in order to pay for their weapons. SO what now? ??
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 22, 2017 23:14:06 GMT -5
According to reports of the great war weapons Russia has and China links up with them against the US. Seems US would be the big loser. Japan and Germany once thought that. Russia has Nukes, but a weak economy and a comparatively weak military. Compare Russian aircraft carriers with what the US has. China would be a poor country without trade from the US and its allies. That used to be so, but not any more. Countries are now beginning to] conduct international trade in Chinese currency rather than US currency. What to do about that? Rome rotted from within.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 22, 2017 23:35:46 GMT -5
Fixit, did you see where some one at a National Party rally had a poster saying Jacinda was a pretty communist. The silly guy may have forgotten that our biggest buyer of dairy products is a communist country. There are some scary scenarios for NZ. If there is a war of some sort, even a regional war in SE Asia then our trade with China will suffer badly. The other countries in the area are not at all happy with the way China is acquiring territory, sometimes even by building islands. The prize of course is resources such as oil. They know that the easiest way of hurting China is to shut off her trading routes in the South China Sea. I hope you like chewing on crusty ol milk powder.
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Post by fixit on Sept 23, 2017 0:00:04 GMT -5
Fixit, did you see where some one at a National Party rally had a poster saying Jacinda was a pretty communist. The silly guy may have forgotten that our biggest buyer of dairy products is a communist country. There are some scary scenarios for NZ. If there is a war of some sort, even a regional war in SE Asia then our trade with China will suffer badly. The other countries in the area are not at all happy with the way China is acquiring territory, sometimes even by building islands. The prize of course is resources such as oil. They know that the easiest way of hurting China is to shut off her trading routes in the South China Sea. I hope you like chewing on crusty ol milk powder. China is communist in name only. Are we allowed to discuss Jacindarella on election day? Better wait until voting closes in two hours time. I expect China will realise they have little to gain from supporting the international pariah evil regime in NK. And much to gain from trade with the US and its allies. However, if Chinese trade was cut off it would be devastating for the New Zealand economy and pretty bad for the Australian economy. China is on track to become the world's biggest economy. Let's hope they are as responsible with that status as the US has been. Time will tell.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 23, 2017 0:12:33 GMT -5
Fixit, did you see where some one at a National Party rally had a poster saying Jacinda was a pretty communist. The silly guy may have forgotten that our biggest buyer of dairy products is a communist country. There are some scary scenarios for NZ. If there is a war of some sort, even a regional war in SE Asia then our trade with China will suffer badly. The other countries in the area are not at all happy with the way China is acquiring territory, sometimes even by building islands. The prize of course is resources such as oil. They know that the easiest way of hurting China is to shut off her trading routes in the South China Sea. I hope you like chewing on crusty ol milk powder. China is communist in name only. Are we allowed to discuss Jacindarella on election day? Better wait until voting closes in two hours time. I expect China will realise they have little to gain from supporting the international pariah evil regime in NK. And much to gain from trade with the US and its allies. However, if Chinese trade was cut off it would be devastating for the New Zealand economy and pretty bad for the Australian economy. China is on track to become the world's biggest economy. Let's hope they are as responsible with that status as the US has been. Time will tell. Remember what Al Capone was famous for saying...."Vote early and vote often"
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 23, 2017 0:13:36 GMT -5
Fixit, did you see where some one at a National Party rally had a poster saying Jacinda was a pretty communist. The silly guy may have forgotten that our biggest buyer of dairy products is a communist country. There are some scary scenarios for NZ. If there is a war of some sort, even a regional war in SE Asia then our trade with China will suffer badly. The other countries in the area are not at all happy with the way China is acquiring territory, sometimes even by building islands. The prize of course is resources such as oil. They know that the easiest way of hurting China is to shut off her trading routes in the South China Sea. I hope you like chewing on crusty ol milk powder. China is communist in name only. Are we allowed to discuss Jacindarella on election day? Better wait until voting closes in two hours time. I expect China will realise they have little to gain from supporting the international pariah evil regime in NK. And much to gain from trade with the US and its allies. However, if Chinese trade was cut off it would be devastating for the New Zealand economy and pretty bad for the Australian economy. China is on track to become the world's biggest economy. Let's hope they are as responsible with that status as the US has been. Time will tell. When the US system precipitates the next world-wide depression, you may quite well appreciate China and non-dollar international trade.
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Post by fixit on Sept 23, 2017 0:16:00 GMT -5
If previous administrations had applied the sanctions now imposed, NK wouldn't have been able to get the weapons they now have. You haven't caught on yet. Sanctions don't work on NK. The leaders of NK let their people starve to death in order to pay for their weapons. SO what now? ?? Do you think rocket man should be allowed to join the nuclear club? I think it would be irresponsible. He can't continue his nuclear program without outside help. The international community has provided a great deal of aid for the North Korean people. Sanctions won't stop food going in.
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Post by fixit on Sept 23, 2017 0:20:33 GMT -5
China is communist in name only. Are we allowed to discuss Jacindarella on election day? Better wait until voting closes in two hours time. I expect China will realise they have little to gain from supporting the international pariah evil regime in NK. And much to gain from trade with the US and its allies. However, if Chinese trade was cut off it would be devastating for the New Zealand economy and pretty bad for the Australian economy. China is on track to become the world's biggest economy. Let's hope they are as responsible with that status as the US has been. Time will tell. When the US system precipitates the next world-wide depression, you may quite well appreciate China and non-dollar international trade. You're assuming that Trump's campaign rhetoric regarding trade will be implemented. I doubt it will, because its a really bad idea. Hauling back $10/hour jobs and sacrificing $100/hour jobs is not in America's interests.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 23, 2017 0:44:42 GMT -5
You haven't caught on yet. Sanctions don't work on NK. The leaders of NK let their people starve to death in order to pay for their weapons. SO what now? ?? Do you think rocket man should be allowed to join the nuclear club? I think it would be irresponsible. He can't continue his nuclear program without outside help. The international community has provided a great deal of aid for the North Korean people. Sanctions won't stop food going in. Motor mouth seems to be equally as dangerous and has a lot more firepower to play with.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 23, 2017 0:54:07 GMT -5
You haven't caught on yet. Sanctions don't work on NK. The leaders of NK let their people starve to death in order to pay for their weapons. SO what now? ?? Do you think rocket man should be allowed to join the nuclear club? Does it matter to Kim whether he is "in the club"? No country wants him in that club. He doesn't need any help. He has all the engineering wherewithal necessary. Sanctions NEVER stopped the NK people from starving to death.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 23, 2017 1:03:42 GMT -5
When the US system precipitates the next world-wide depression, you may quite well appreciate China and non-dollar international trade. You're assuming that Trump's campaign rhetoric regarding trade will be implemented. Trump's rhetoric has nothing to do with why countries are switching to the yuan. But Trump's rhetoric just hastens the trend. Trump has no genuine interest other that his popularity and his money. As with most of the rest of Trump's rhetoric, who believes he either knows what he's talking about or intends to do it anyway. Neither American industry or agriculture support his approach to bring back good paying jobs. Why not? Trump is building a wall to keep all the necessary labor out of the country --- and industries aren't going to pay anyone $100 an hour when they can get it done just as well for $10 an hour.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 23, 2017 1:05:30 GMT -5
Do you think rocket man should be allowed to join the nuclear club? I think it would be irresponsible. He can't continue his nuclear program without outside help. The international community has provided a great deal of aid for the North Korean people. Sanctions won't stop food going in. Motor mouth seems to be equally as dangerous and has a lot more firepower to play with. Calling a lunatic with a hydrogen bomb names is as mindlessly juvenile as one can get.
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Post by fixit on Sept 23, 2017 1:44:25 GMT -5
Do you think rocket man should be allowed to join the nuclear club? I think it would be irresponsible. He can't continue his nuclear program without outside help. The international community has provided a great deal of aid for the North Korean people. Sanctions won't stop food going in. Motor mouth seems to be equally as dangerous and has a lot more firepower to play with. But he's much more accountable, having to work within the American system.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 23, 2017 1:56:16 GMT -5
Motor mouth seems to be equally as dangerous and has a lot more firepower to play with. But he's much more accountable, having to work within the American system. Surprise -- he doesn't work within the American system either. What do you think is going on in this country right now?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 23, 2017 1:56:48 GMT -5
Motor mouth seems to be equally as dangerous and has a lot more firepower to play with. But he's much more accountable, having to work within the American system. True and thankfully there are still one or two reasonably sane people in the US military who will not let him join them in the sand pit.
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Post by fixit on Sept 23, 2017 5:20:40 GMT -5
He doesn't need any help. He has all the engineering wherewithal necessary. Yes, the Russians trained Kim's scientists well. NK imports rubber and tyres, trucks, cars, bicycles, planes, helicopters, metals, cement, refined petroleum, computers, electrical transformers, electric motors, insulated wire, combustion engines, electric generating sets, etc. Good luck maintaining his military and his nuclear program without all those.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 23, 2017 5:35:50 GMT -5
Kim reminds me of the black knight in Monty Pythons "In search of the Holy Grail"
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Post by snow on Sept 23, 2017 16:14:03 GMT -5
Some consideration been given to assinatting Kim...but it's said if that happened China and Russia would join in war against US. LOL like the spelling your phone gave to assassinating Kim. assinatting, how appropriate! Trmp needs to be careful if China and Russia get involved. The States owe China a huge amount of money. You don't want to get on their bad side.
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Post by snow on Sept 23, 2017 16:21:03 GMT -5
Yes, Russia and China could have stopped NK from getting Nukes. The West didn't give them a good enough reason not to. Tighter sanctions would have been hard, but a better option than allowing NK to own nukes that could threaten US territory. There is a military option and there is a sanctions option. Either one would stop NK from threatening world peace. Neither are easy. Not to take away from the seriousness of all this, but why is it considered so terrible that N. Korea is targeting the US? He's been targeting other countries and that's okay? But you target the States and all of a sudden it's time to bomb him? Why? There are a lot of countries that have been within range for a long time yet no one talks of bombing. China is an ally of N. Korea. The world can't even stop China's coal ships from doing business as usual. You can bet that if China isn't down for the sanctions enough to adhere to them, they will likely not be too happy about anyone bombing N.Korea. In fact, any country, near N. Korea has to be worried at the moment. A nuclear bomb won't just affect N. Korea, but lots of countries around it if Trmp does decide to use nuclear weapons.
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Post by snow on Sept 23, 2017 16:23:44 GMT -5
According to reports of the great war weapons Russia has and China links up with them against the US. Seems US would be the big loser. Japan and Germany once thought that. Russia has Nukes, but a weak economy and a comparatively weak military. Compare Russian aircraft carriers with what the US has. China would be a poor country without trade from the US and its allies. At the moment the US is in such deep debt to China that they would do endless financial damage to the states if they decided to call the loans.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 23, 2017 16:30:17 GMT -5
Japan and Germany once thought that. Russia has Nukes, but a weak economy and a comparatively weak military. Compare Russian aircraft carriers with what the US has. China would be a poor country without trade from the US and its allies. At the moment the US is in such deep debt to China that they would do endless financial damage to the states if they decided to call the loans. And Trump et al owe Russia.
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Post by snow on Sept 23, 2017 18:41:17 GMT -5
At the moment the US is in such deep debt to China that they would do endless financial damage to the states if they decided to call the loans. And Trump et al owe Russia. LOL true! What a mess! And who do we have to thank for the mess the world finds itself in? Those who voted in Trump. Kim has been there for a long time, playing with his toys making threats, being Kim. Up until now we haven't really worried a whole lot about him because we've always had one somewhat sane person in the picture. With Trump the world has lost that advantage. Poking a narcissistic nutcase with nucs is something only a narcissistic nutcase would do and not realize the repercussions worldwide.
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Post by fixit on Sept 23, 2017 19:41:03 GMT -5
Yes, Russia and China could have stopped NK from getting Nukes. The West didn't give them a good enough reason not to. Tighter sanctions would have been hard, but a better option than allowing NK to own nukes that could threaten US territory. There is a military option and there is a sanctions option. Either one would stop NK from threatening world peace. Neither are easy. Not to take away from the seriousness of all this, but why is it considered so terrible that N. Korea is targeting the US? He's been targeting other countries and that's okay? But you target the States and all of a sudden it's time to bomb him? Why? There are a lot of countries that have been within range for a long time yet no one talks of bombing. China is an ally of N. Korea. The world can't even stop China's coal ships from doing business as usual. You can bet that if China isn't down for the sanctions enough to adhere to them, they will likely not be too happy about anyone bombing N.Korea. In fact, any country, near N. Korea has to be worried at the moment. A nuclear bomb won't just affect N. Korea, but lots of countries around it if Trmp does decide to use nuclear weapons. I doubt the US would use nuclear weapons. NK must be stopped from further development of nuclear weapons. To let him continue his nuclear program would be reckless, and frankly stupid.
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Post by snow on Sept 23, 2017 19:49:38 GMT -5
Not to take away from the seriousness of all this, but why is it considered so terrible that N. Korea is targeting the US? He's been targeting other countries and that's okay? But you target the States and all of a sudden it's time to bomb him? Why? There are a lot of countries that have been within range for a long time yet no one talks of bombing. China is an ally of N. Korea. The world can't even stop China's coal ships from doing business as usual. You can bet that if China isn't down for the sanctions enough to adhere to them, they will likely not be too happy about anyone bombing N.Korea. In fact, any country, near N. Korea has to be worried at the moment. A nuclear bomb won't just affect N. Korea, but lots of countries around it if Trmp does decide to use nuclear weapons. I doubt the US would use nuclear weapons. NK must be stopped from further development of nuclear weapons. To let him continue his nuclear program would be reckless, and frankly stupid. Yes, I agree he needs to be prevented if possible. But is it smart to do it like Trump is doing it? He's just poking at him, playing bully of the schoolyard. Given what Rational answered me regarding who the person was that made the decision to use nukes, we are in trouble. Trump has sole power over the decision. The Secretary of defense can be fired by Trump if he disagrees. Knowing how Trump said that nukes were there to be used, this is a troubling issue. Do you agree?
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Post by fixit on Sept 23, 2017 22:05:25 GMT -5
I doubt the US would use nuclear weapons. NK must be stopped from further development of nuclear weapons. To let him continue his nuclear program would be reckless, and frankly stupid. Yes, I agree he needs to be prevented if possible. But is it smart to do it like Trump is doing it? He's just poking at him, playing bully of the schoolyard. Given what Rational answered me regarding who the person was that made the decision to use nukes, we are in trouble. Trump has sole power over the decision. The Secretary of defense can be fired by Trump if he disagrees. Knowing how Trump said that nukes were there to be used, this is a troubling issue. Do you agree? I'm not sure how the nukes decisions work. Would the public be told? The US system was set up to be despot-proof so I doubt that the president alone could decide to use nukes. I also doubt that Trump would use nukes on NK. What Trump does is not the same as what he says. The US has enough military capability to neutralise Rocket Man's military without resorting to weapons of mass destruction.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 24, 2017 0:11:26 GMT -5
Yes, I agree he needs to be prevented if possible. But is it smart to do it like Trump is doing it? He's just poking at him, playing bully of the schoolyard. Given what Rational answered me regarding who the person was that made the decision to use nukes, we are in trouble. Trump has sole power over the decision. The Secretary of defense can be fired by Trump if he disagrees. Knowing how Trump said that nukes were there to be used, this is a troubling issue. Do you agree? I'm not sure how the nukes decisions work. Would the public be told? The US system was set up to be despot-proof so I doubt that the president alone could decide to use nukes. I also doubt that Trump would use nukes on NK. What Trump does is not the same as what he says. The US has enough military capability to neutralise Rocket Man's military without resorting to weapons of mass destruction. Its amazing Trump's wife just made another speech at the aUN and it was about bullying. I wonder if she's trying everything she can think of to get Trump to quit bullying.
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Post by snow on Sept 24, 2017 11:56:24 GMT -5
Yes, I agree he needs to be prevented if possible. But is it smart to do it like Trump is doing it? He's just poking at him, playing bully of the schoolyard. Given what Rational answered me regarding who the person was that made the decision to use nukes, we are in trouble. Trump has sole power over the decision. The Secretary of defense can be fired by Trump if he disagrees. Knowing how Trump said that nukes were there to be used, this is a troubling issue. Do you agree? I'm not sure how the nukes decisions work. Would the public be told? The US system was set up to be despot-proof so I doubt that the president alone could decide to use nukes. I also doubt that Trump would use nukes on NK. What Trump does is not the same as what he says. The US has enough military capability to neutralise Rocket Man's military without resorting to weapons of mass destruction. Here is what I found. It looks like the president has full authority. Trmp said a few times in his campaign that he would use nuclear weapons. He has said as a last resort but he also made it known there was no point having them if he couldn't use them. Hopefully you're right and he won't feel it's necessary. I agree there are many different ways this could be handled better than nuclear weapons. The big question is, is Trump smart enough to not use them? I just don't know. Probably no one knows. He's not exactly the most stable guy on the earth. www.cnn.com/2016/08/06/politics/nuclear-football-president-button/index.html
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Post by Gene on Oct 2, 2017 17:46:32 GMT -5
I'm not sure how the nukes decisions work. Would the public be told? The US system was set up to be despot-proof so I doubt that the president alone could decide to use nukes. I also doubt that Trump would use nukes on NK. What Trump does is not the same as what he says. The US has enough military capability to neutralise Rocket Man's military without resorting to weapons of mass destruction. Here is what I found. It looks like the president has full authority. Trmp said a few times in his campaign that he would use nuclear weapons. He has said as a last resort but he also made it known there was no point having them if he couldn't use them. Hopefully you're right and he won't feel it's necessary. I agree there are many different ways this could be handled better than nuclear weapons. The big question is, is Trump smart enough to not use them? I just don't know. Probably no one knows. He's not exactly the most stable guy on the earth. www.cnn.com/2016/08/06/politics/nuclear-football-president-button/index.htmlTrump will use a nuke if he decides he would benefit politically by doing so.
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