|
Post by maryhig on May 2, 2016 7:53:24 GMT -5
Yes, I know we don't agree on this. And I can bring out many verses where it said says that the crucifixion was wrong, but really I'm not talking about that. I'm trying to say that there is more to Jesus than him dying on the cross, there is his whole life and the whole gospel, you don't speak much of that, you just really speak of the cross, yet his life and teachings are so important. And I was just pointing out that the truth isn't the death on the cross. It doesn't say that anywhere in the Bible. Jesus is the truth, he was full of the holy spirit and he said himself that he was born and came into the world to bring the truth. The truth is in his word and his life, he is the way to follow, and we receive the truth through the holy spirit who is the spirit of truth. The truth is in his life. And if his life is within us, then we are free from the chains of this world. No, I'm not a mainstream Christian, I have never said that I am. I am a Christian in that i follow Christ. I am more like the Christians of the first century before the catholic church got their hands on the teachings of Jesus. The first Christians didn't glorify the cross, they saw the cross as a weapon of torture. As do I. I do believe that Jesus had to suffer the cross, because Jesus had to suffer whatever Satan put him through, and overcome him. Showing Gods love, forgiveness and mercy even though he was persecuted. Jesus bore his cross and endured to the end and overcame Satan. He came and showed us the way, and he tells us to take up our cross and do the same and follow him and he will give us the strength to overcome and we will do so by the power of the spirit, as he did. It all comes down to whether we accept the authority of all the Bible and what God says to us there or whether we believe what we want or like to believe. I am going by the Bible Ross Jesus clearly says, that those who endure to the end, the same shall be saved......Matthew 24 We have to endure to the end to be saved. These aren't my words, but the words of Jesus!
|
|
|
Post by pa on May 2, 2016 8:00:31 GMT -5
Rom4:14. They may have been called Christians however their faith was made void. You cannot be a believer with a faith that is void. In the eyes of others they were consider brothers and sisters in Christ, but their understanding of the scriptures were NOT clear. Hopefully, God will eventually open their eyes of understanding down the road just like the early apostles, they didn't understand a lot of what Jesus was teaching.."In the eyes of others they were considered brothers and sisters in Christ" Nathan, where do you get that from. Verses please? From a quick look, Gal 1:8,9 and Gal 3:10...Doesn't look like Paul thought of them as "brothers and sisters in Christ" and he give good reason too why they are cursed. Anyway I will just leave this conversation with you here as it seems never ending with your questionable answers. I am not here to argue but to explore your answers using the Bible (and nothing more or less) as reference.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 8:07:13 GMT -5
John 14:6 Jesus is the Truth, He is the way,He is the life. That is why we have to keep our eyes on Him. He left us with an account of His words and an account of His life on earth, words of truth and an account of a life lived in truth. The truth is not His words or His life on the earth. Jesus is the Truth. Old Testament showed us the purpose He came to earth was as the offering.To pay the price which we could never pay us to get the gift of salvation through grace. As His children we are so grateful for this marvelous gift that is may sound like we don't talk much about his earthly life. 1 Pet 2:24 Jesus is the Truth and the Lamb slayed for us, that is what is so precious to us and His life as he lived on earth and His words follow on from this. A person can live out every word of Jesus and not have the truth. However when a person have the Truth as it is in Jesus then the words of Jesus will be manifested in that person's life by the very nature of having the Truth as it is in Jesus. Being a new creature. Even in the letters of the Apostles there is very little mentioned about the direct words the Jesus spoke or the life He lived, but heaps about His death on the cross and the significance of it. Some folks put it simply that by sacrificing His life on the cross, He paid a debt for us all, that He did no owe.i rather like that thought myself.
|
|
|
Post by pa on May 2, 2016 8:25:05 GMT -5
John 14:6 Jesus is the Truth, He is the way,He is the life. That is why we have to keep our eyes on Him. He left us with an account of His words and an account of His life on earth, words of truth and an account of a life lived in truth. The truth is not His words or His life on the earth. Jesus is the Truth. Old Testament showed us the purpose He came to earth was as the offering.To pay the price which we could never pay us to get the gift of salvation through grace. As His children we are so grateful for this marvelous gift that is may sound like we don't talk much about his earthly life. 1 Pet 2:24 Jesus is the Truth and the Lamb slayed for us, that is what is so precious to us and His life as he lived on earth and His words follow on from this. A person can live out every word of Jesus and not have the truth. However when a person have the Truth as it is in Jesus then the words of Jesus will be manifested in that person's life by the very nature of having the Truth as it is in Jesus. Being a new creature. Even in the letters of the Apostles there is very little mentioned about the direct words the Jesus spoke or the life He lived, but heaps about His death on the cross and the significance of it. I see those scriptures differently to you. Jesus himself said in John 7 and John 8 that it was wrong to kill him. He even said they are doing the works of their father the devil. Peter said that if they had of known, they would not give killed the prince of life. But the crucifixion isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the truth. And yes Jesus is the truth. Everything about him is the truth. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that the truth is the crucifixion. Which is what is being stated. "I see those scriptures differently to you."- which scriptures Mary? John 7 & 8. Yes I understand that just like you. They tried to kill Him, had council together about killing Him and even took stones up to kill Him. Jesus even foretold of them lifting Him up. Physical things that would end His natural human life. "But the crucifixion isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the truth. And yes Jesus is the truth." - OK then we are on common ground, as obviously the truth is not the crucifixion. The truth is Jesus. "Everything about him is the truth." - No Mary - He is the truth. Everything about Him states/manifests the truth. His life and His words all manifests of Him, they cannot be Him. "But nowhere in the Bible does it say that the truth is the crucifixion." You are correct. "Which is what is being stated." - Who stated that? I didn't as we just agreed that the truth is in Jesus. Maybe I missed the post where the person stated this.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 2, 2016 9:19:08 GMT -5
I see those scriptures differently to you. Jesus himself said in John 7 and John 8 that it was wrong to kill him. He even said they are doing the works of their father the devil. Peter said that if they had of known, they would not give killed the prince of life. But the crucifixion isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the truth. And yes Jesus is the truth. Everything about him is the truth. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that the truth is the crucifixion. Which is what is being stated. "I see those scriptures differently to you."- which scriptures Mary? John 7 & 8. Yes I understand that just like you. They tried to kill Him, had council together about killing Him and even took stones up to kill Him. Jesus even foretold of them lifting Him up. Physical things that would end His natural human life. "But the crucifixion isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the truth. And yes Jesus is the truth." - OK then we are on common ground, as obviously the truth is not the crucifixion. The truth is Jesus. "Everything about him is the truth." - No Mary - He is the truth. Everything about Him states/manifests the truth. His life and His words all manifests of Him, they cannot be Him. "But nowhere in the Bible does it say that the truth is the crucifixion." You are correct. "Which is what is being stated." - Who stated that? I didn't as we just agreed that the truth is in Jesus. Maybe I missed the post where the person stated this. Yes he is the truth, I absolutely agree. I never said he wasn't. He clearly says I am the way, the truth and the life. But the truth is in his words and in his life. It's right through him. It also says that the spirit is truth, and the holy spirit is the spirit of God! John 16 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come If you want to discuss the crucifixion, please do PM me. But I'm not going into another debate on here. It just goes on and on like the trinity! I may not be able to answer straight away as I'm going to be busy for the rest of the day. But I will get back to you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 9:46:57 GMT -5
Quote - "It's a bit like when some friends have asked workers about Conventions and the Biblical connection etc - instead of simply saying "there isn't any but it's a good thing for all of us to get together every year..." some of them tie themselves in knots over OT references"
I wonder if the large gatherings in the Acts were a response to Jesus spending three days with the five thousand in the Gospels?
|
|
|
Post by pa on May 2, 2016 10:04:39 GMT -5
"Yes he is the truth, I absolutely agree. I never said he wasn't. He clearly says I am the way, the truth and the life." - Yes I agree.
"But the truth is in his words and in his life." No -He is the Truth . Here is an analogy. You are you (called Mary by your parents). You are not in your words, because you are way more than your words. Your words manifest/declare/reflect something about yourself, a little bit of you. However you can smell, sing, taste and do/are much more, you even have a soul. Your words are of you. In your words can I hear/read something of you. I cannot say the words I read on this forum is you, for all I know you could be a wonderful artist but it never came up on this forum so I don't know this. The words of Jesus/Truth are of truth, however He is the Truth. He is way more than words, a life lived on earth, a sacrifice,etc.
" It's right through him." - It(Truth) is Him.
"It also says that the spirit is truth, and the holy spirit is the spirit of God! "
John 16" - Verse 13 - No it says the spirit of truth, not the spirit is truth. Big difference.
"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come"
It may sound like semantics, but it is way more than that. However once I visualized it with the analogy I gave you, it seemed so simple and I was amazed. Lots of things fell in place for me then.However I still know so little and am willing to learn much more.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on May 2, 2016 13:53:43 GMT -5
Christians don't believe in infant baptism, or in preachers wearing special garb to differentiate them from ordinary believers. Who said they did? Those issues came to mind when I pictured you as such an authority on what Christians believe and what Christians don't believe. Can we learn from the following link what Christians believe? www.evangelicaloutreach.org/michael-servetus.htm
|
|
|
Post by Grant on May 2, 2016 14:07:57 GMT -5
Christians don't believe you have to belong to a certain denomination and hear a group of men from a church started up 115 years ago or just meet in a house, to be saved.
Christians believe that salvation is in Jesus alone and that Christ within is our hope of glory, not man.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 16:30:25 GMT -5
maryhig, do you believe Christ's death was a sacrifice of atonement? No, not as you do. I believe he came as a living sacrifice and was dead to this world, not living by his will, but living by the will of God. I believe that we are saved by his life, as it says in the Bible. I believe he came as an example for us to follow. And when we do, then we are blessed by the grace of God with the holy spirit who gives us the strength daily to overcome Satan. And the fruits of the spirit will be manifest in our lives. It says in the scriptures that we must endure to the end to be saved. These aren't my words, but the words of Jesus. If we have to endure to the end to be saved, then how are we already eternally saved and going to heaven? We won't know that until we have breathed our last breath. And only God knows who is and who isn't saved. Not any man. In the Old Testament, the passover lamb had to be consumed in its entirety (including the purtenance thereof) - Ex. 12. In the New Testament the Lamb of God must be accepted in His entirety - we can't pick the bits we like and exclude the bits we don't. We can't accept the life and exclude the blood just as we can't exclude the life and accept the blood. I would like someone to explain to me from the bible how my sins can be taken away other than by the atoning blood of Christ because I don't believe that there is any other way in which this can happen. This is why the crucifixion, death and resurrection are a vital part of my faith. Rev 1 v 3 - "Unto Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood ..."
|
|
|
Post by fred on May 2, 2016 17:49:27 GMT -5
Quote - "It's a bit like when some friends have asked workers about Conventions and the Biblical connection etc - instead of simply saying "there isn't any but it's a good thing for all of us to get together every year..." some of them tie themselves in knots over OT references"
I wonder if the large gatherings in the Acts were a response to Jesus spending three days with the five thousand in the Gospels? It is always good to gather in the name of our saviour, to honour him and praise his name. 'I was glad when they said let us go into the house of the Lord'. Why do we need to look at history to justify this? When you do so you introduce legalisms and still get it wrong. Three days? - nah, we do it for four with weeks of getting ready. In Acts? - we certainly don't do it like that.
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on May 2, 2016 18:04:48 GMT -5
I see those scriptures differently to you. Jesus himself said in John 7 and John 8 that it was wrong to kill him. He even said they are doing the works of their father the devil. Peter said that if they had of known, they would not give killed the prince of life. But the crucifixion isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the truth. And yes Jesus is the truth. Everything about him is the truth. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that the truth is the crucifixion. Which is what is being stated. Mary, did not Jesus prophesy of his own death, knowing where and when it would happen? Did not the Old Testament prophets prophesy of his affliction and punishment on our behalf? Does Isaiah 53 mean nothing? If you do not realise that Jesus' death on the cross was the fulfillment of all history, what all of the Old Testament is building towards, you do not know the gospel at all. The crucifixion is the pinnacle of the truth of Jesus, not a side issue.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on May 2, 2016 18:36:54 GMT -5
Quote: His truth has nothing to do with organisations or institutions - it is completely about Jesus, his death in our place, His victory over death and His grace which sets us free and we place our trust and lives in His hands..... His truth isn't about the death on the cross, his truth is the true gospel he preached, the true word, true way and life. He came by water and blood, he spoke the truth and lived it out, he preached the true word of God. The spirit is truth and Jesus was in fullness of the holy spirit and truth. His victory was to overcome Satan in his flesh and not sin. And he can give us the strength to do this also. I'm sorry Maryhig but Christians do not believe as you do concerning what happened on the cross. Ross, this was not "a simple comment about the importance of what happened at Calvary to Christians". It was a blatant condemnation of Maryhig as a Christian. (Underline above was mine)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 18:38:33 GMT -5
I see those scriptures differently to you. Jesus himself said in John 7 and John 8 that it was wrong to kill him. He even said they are doing the works of their father the devil. Peter said that if they had of known, they would not give killed the prince of life. But the crucifixion isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the truth. And yes Jesus is the truth. Everything about him is the truth. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that the truth is the crucifixion. Which is what is being stated. Mary, did not Jesus prophesy of his own death, knowing where and when it would happen? Did not the Old Testament prophets prophesy of his affliction and punishment on our behalf? Does Isaiah 53 mean nothing? If you do not realise that Jesus' death on the cross was the fulfillment of all history, what all of the Old Testament is building towards, you do not know the gospel at all. The crucifixion is the pinnacle of the truth of Jesus, not a side issue. And without the crucifixion, the miracle of the empty tomb (and all that the resurrection life means to us today) would not have happened in the wonderful way that it did.
|
|
|
Post by emy on May 2, 2016 19:28:26 GMT -5
Maryhig, you do believe in the resurrection, right? I think that and living your life according to things Jesus taught, because you believe he is the Son of God, would make you a Christian. Many times we hear "believe" but I guess what Jesus' disciples believed BEFORE he shed his blood was not sufficient??
|
|
truevine
New Member
Looking for answers....
Posts: 31
|
Post by truevine on May 2, 2016 21:03:04 GMT -5
WOW! This conversation has gotten INTENSE since I last checked it. Well, my understanding of not having the emblems at convention was that it was for practicality.....such a large number of people. Maybe I SHOULD converse with Speak....he could fill me in on these things that I obviously don't know ?
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 3, 2016 0:02:13 GMT -5
I see those scriptures differently to you. Jesus himself said in John 7 and John 8 that it was wrong to kill him. He even said they are doing the works of their father the devil. Peter said that if they had of known, they would not give killed the prince of life. But the crucifixion isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the truth. And yes Jesus is the truth. Everything about him is the truth. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that the truth is the crucifixion. Which is what is being stated. Mary, did not Jesus prophesy of his own death, knowing where and when it would happen? Did not the Old Testament prophets prophesy of his affliction and punishment on our behalf? Does Isaiah 53 mean nothing? If you do not realise that Jesus' death on the cross was the fulfillment of all history, what all of the Old Testament is building towards, you do not know the gospel at all. The crucifixion is the pinnacle of the truth of Jesus, not a side issue. Yes, Jesus did prophesy his own death. And it's prophesied in the old testament too. Jesus even said that he had to go to Jerusalem and and he would be killed. But nowhere does Jesus say that his death on the cross will save you. I have never said he didn't have to go though it. He did, he had to overcome everything that Satan threw at him. Take it and show love and mercy by doing this he never sinned or gave in to Satan. If he had of given in, then Satan would have won. But he didn't, he endured the suffering until his last breath. And he is resurrected in the hearts of his church giving them the strength to overcome Satan within. Jesus told the parable of the wicked vinyard servants, he said how the master sent out his servants and they were stoned and killed etc. So he said, I'll send like my son, perhaps they'll reverence him, they then took the son and killed him. What did the owner do? He cast then out and give the vineyard to others. This parable is about Jesus. It says that he wanted the servants to reverence him not crucify him. And because they killed him they will be cast out. God wanted those who crucified Jesus to love and reverence him and not kill him. This parable makes that perfectly clear. Jesus said before he went on the cross that he had finished the work that the father had given him to do. And that work was bring the truth and spread the gospel. He asked God to forgive them for crucifiying him. It was a sinful wicked act, done at the hands of Satan through his people. Jesus said , those who endure to the end, the same shall be saved. We must endure to the end. No immediate eternal salvation on believing only. Once we believe and repent, we are saved from our past sins. Then we must deny ourselves taking up our crosses. And we will be blessed with the holy spirit through Christ Jesus, who will give us the strength daily to overcome. We will suffer, it's not easy to fight yourself and deny or own sins, suffer persecution and and turn from the world, but these things we must do, doing Gods will and not out own. Jesus told us we must do them. And if we take up our cross as he did, and endure those sufferings, we have the hope of eternal salvation when we die. Jesus came as an example, and we must follow that example, and God will never leave us or forsake us and Christ will walk with us on the way. If, we love and obey God. God wants sin removed from our hearts, and that's done by the spirit, but we must listen to his instructions and deny ourselves and not wilfully sin. We can't go round saying once we are saved were always saved, it doesn't say that in the Bible. And how do we know what we will do in the future? This is a false teaching, it's not taught in the Bible, and we are told that there is no more sacrifice for willful sinning once we have knowledge of the truth. Those who endure to the end, the same shall be saved..... The words of our lord Jesus Christ, not mine! These are my beliefs, you can all judge me as unsaved as much as you like, but God is my judge, not any of you. Only he knows my heart.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on May 3, 2016 1:10:40 GMT -5
I'm curious, Maryhig. Do you have the eucharist (bread and wine) in your meetings?
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 3, 2016 3:11:54 GMT -5
I'm curious, Maryhig. Do you have the eucharist (bread and wine) in your meetings? Yes we do
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 3, 2016 3:41:05 GMT -5
Yes, Jesus did prophesy his own death. And it's prophesied in the old testament too. Jesus even said that he had to go to Jerusalem and and he would be killed. But nowhere does Jesus say that his death on the cross will save you. I have never said he didn't have to go though it. He did, he had to overcome everything that Satan threw at him. Take it and show love and mercy by doing this he never sinned or gave in to Satan. If he had of given in, then Satan would have won. But he didn't, he endured the suffering until his last breath. And he is resurrected in the hearts of his church giving them the strength to overcome Satan within. Jesus told the parable of the wicked vinyard servants, he said how the master sent out his servants and they were stoned and killed etc. So he said, I'll send like my son, perhaps they'll reverence him, they then took the son and killed him. What did the owner do? He cast then out and give the vineyard to others. This parable is about Jesus. It says that he wanted the servants to reverence him not crucify him. And because they killed him they will be cast out. God wanted those who crucified Jesus to love and reverence him and not kill him. This parable makes that perfectly clear. Jesus said before he went on the cross that he had finished the work that the father had given him to do. And that work was bring the truth and spread the gospel. He asked God to forgive them for crucifiying him. It was a sinful wicked act, done at the hands of Satan through his people. These are my beliefs, you can all judge me as unsaved as much as you like, but God is my judge, not any of you. Only he knows my heart. You are actually stating that you are unsaved yourself. You have indicated that (a) you are not saved from your present sin and (b) you can't be saved because you haven't yet endured until the end. By the way it's very clear in 1 Cor 15 and the whole NT that Christ died for our sins. These are God's words, not ours. "Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you... By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain... For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures... That he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures... And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith... Your faith is futile; you are still in your sins..." Ross, Jesus was saving before he went on the cross Luke 7 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace. Jesus was talking about her past sins not future sins. And she had been saved from them, they had been forgiven. And he said it was her faith in him that saved her not his death on the cross. It's believing in him and having faith that saves us. Loving God before our own lives. And you're right, I don't believe I am eternally saved as yet. I believe that I am being saved from sin daily by Gods spirit within. I must endure to the end for eternal salvation, as Jesus taught. And I'm only receiving grace from God as long as I keep my faith and love him with all my heart putting his will before my own. And I do this this through following Jesus, who showed me the way, who I believe is the Christ and my saviour, but not through his death on the cross, I am saved by his life. By following him and living my life as he taught me to and by his life within me. I believe that the once saved always saved is the best guise that Satan has ever come up with. To put the life of Jesus to nothing putting it all on the cross and to let people falsely believe that they can live their life, sin and still have eternal salvation. Nowhere does it say in the Bible that we are saved from future sins. Jesus clearly said "go sin no more" we are to fight sin within once we know the truth. Not live our lives as we please and think that we're ok. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. It's believing in Jesus and having faith that saves us. And as long as we keep our faith, we won't perish because we will have Gods spirit within our hearts helping us to overcome this world, thus saving us daily from Satan.
|
|
|
Post by speak on May 3, 2016 4:24:46 GMT -5
WOW! This conversation has gotten INTENSE since I last checked it. Well, my understanding of not having the emblems at convention was that it was for practicality.....such a large number of people. Maybe I SHOULD converse with Speak....he could fill me in on these things that I obviously don't know ? You made it very plain as to what you thought of what I wrote.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 5:09:36 GMT -5
We were often told that having the emblems is one of the most important part of meetings; conventions are regarded as very important gatherings,. Provisions are made for dining, and tea break .But no provision made for the emblems, such an important part. Many other large church gatherings seem to manage ok, no problems with practicality. Conventions have been going on from way back when, but no one has thought out a way round this inpracticality especially when the convention gathering is on the Lord's day, Sunday. They aught to be able to make some kind of an arrangement for Sundays alone.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on May 3, 2016 5:23:02 GMT -5
We were often told that having the emblems is one of the most important part of meetings; conventions are regarded as very important gatherings,. Provisions are made for dining, and tea break .But no provision made for the emblems, such an important part. Many other large church gatherings seem to manage ok, no problems with practicality. Conventions have been going on from way back when, but no one has thought out a way round this inpracticality especially when the convention gathering is on the Lord's day, Sunday. They aught to be able to make some kind of an arrangement for Sundays alone. Of course it could be arranged. Australian conventions do it. It seems more meaningful (and scriptural) for it to occur in homes.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on May 3, 2016 6:20:08 GMT -5
Hey @partaker come to Australia for convention, we'd love to have you
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 6:25:40 GMT -5
We were often told that having the emblems is one of the most important part of meetings; conventions are regarded as very important gatherings,. Provisions are made for dining, and tea break .But no provision made for the emblems, such an important part. Many other large church gatherings seem to manage ok, no problems with practicality. Conventions have been going on from way back when, but no one has thought out a way round this inpracticality especially when the convention gathering is on the Lord's day, Sunday. They aught to be able to make some kind of an arrangement for Sundays alone. Of course it could be arranged. Australian conventions do it. It seems more meaningful (and scriptural) for it to occur in homes. More meaningful to who? God and Jesus or to man? Jessus asked His followers to do it in memory of Him, He did not particularly specify where. I remember attending a convention several years ago and a brother worker speaking about the emblems said that when he allend A sunday morning meeting, the first thing he looked for was the emblems; he spoke of a time he attended a meeting and a person sitting near the table had his feet rapped, with one foot and shoe very near to the table and he had found that very offensive and disrespectful. i suppose it would seem more meaningful and scriptural to us who meet in homes because we were brought up to believe so by indoctrination/practice perhaps?? I was not aware that Australian conventions do differently, so the F&w practices are not absolutely universal, after all ??
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 6:27:27 GMT -5
Hey @partaker come to Australia for convention, we'd love to have you Thanks for the invitation, I will bear that in mind
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 6:29:16 GMT -5
I'm curious, Maryhig. Do you have the eucharist (bread and wine) in your meetings? Yes we do Maryhig - I'm curious too! What do you think the significance of the bread and wine is? When you partake of the wine, in particular, what is the thought that goes through your mind? What do you think the wine represents?
|
|
|
Post by rational on May 3, 2016 7:51:55 GMT -5
I see those scriptures differently to you. Jesus himself said in John 7 and John 8 that it was wrong to kill him. He even said they are doing the works of their father the devil. Peter said that if they had of known, they would not give killed the prince of life. But the crucifixion isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the truth. And yes Jesus is the truth. Everything about him is the truth. But nowhere in the Bible does it say that the truth is the crucifixion. Which is what is being stated. Mary, did not Jesus prophesy of his own death, knowing where and when it would happen? Did not the Old Testament prophets prophesy of his affliction and punishment on our behalf? Does Isaiah 53 mean nothing? If you do not realise that Jesus' death on the cross was the fulfillment of all history, what all of the Old Testament is building towards, you do not know the gospel at all. The crucifixion is the pinnacle of the truth of Jesus, not a side issue. Depends on which gospel you choose to believe: Luke 18:31-33 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
or John 20:9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. Looks like someone was practicing vaticinium ex eventu.
|
|