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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 21, 2016 18:05:05 GMT -5
You are going to find some Jews who do believe in an afterlife, but you're also going to find some Christians who believe they will be gods with their own planet in the afterlife. But according to Jewish theology, no, there is no afterlife. Heaven is a place where God resides, and there is no hell. The only life after this present one for Jews is that when the Great Messiah comes, and if they've been exemplary Jews, and if their remains have not been burned, they might be resurrected to live human life again on this earth. Otherwise, afterlife is of no consequence to Jews. As for "original sin", I never used it until I was approaching elderly, but that teaching was never in circulation until Saint Augustine came up with the "doctrine" around the 4th century CE, and the Roman church has promoted it ever since. Concerning Adam, for Jews the concept of original sin doesn't make any sense at all. After all, they don't believe in an afterlife, say nothing of believing they can be punished in an afterlife for anything. The doctrine of original sin only works on Christians -- in fact, there is evidence that it was designed and promoted as a tactic to scare people into obeying the clergy. Jews recognize that Adam wasn't the first "man" created. In the first chapter of Genesis people were created, then in the second creation story Adam was created. But the Hebrew description of Adam uses another word for him. In other words, there were two words for humans, and Adam was different (and superior) to the people created in the first chapter. If anything, Adam's "fall" could be that he bore children and let them marry people from the first creation. It does explain quite easily where Adam's sons got their wives. No, Jews do not believe in the "Holy Spirit". Originally Jews believed there were all different Gods, and the God of Abraham was the one Abraham chose to worship to the exclusion of all the others. Later on Jews stopped believing that there were any other gods, and the one God became perfectly singular. To them, God cannot have offspring, and He cannot be divided. It is a blasphemy to them to consider that God is anything but a totally singular being. Because the Roman church could never force all believers to believe their doctrine, the Jewish concept of God got passed on to Christians today who do not accept the Catholic concept of the Trinity. Muslims also keep the Jewish concept of God. To them there is no such thing as a Holy Spirit, and Jesus' being the Son of God means that he was a human being chosen by God (Allah) to be a prophet. They generally believe that Jesus will be judge at the end of time, but he was/is not an offspring of the deity. You are in the majority if you've never heard this before. Christians have two millennia of history in degrading both Jews and Muslims, as well as non-conforming sects of Christianity. The last thing they wanted people to know was the truth about Christianity's roots, and they had many centuries in which to purge Western Europe of any knowledge of it. Thanks for taking the time to explain all that, that was interesting. And I probably believe a few things closer to the Jewish people than you think. As you may know, I don't believe in the trinity. There is only one God, also I don't believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans either. Adam had flesh when Eve was created, but besides that there are many things in Genesis that points toward Adam not being the first man. I.e as you said that men and women were created in chapter 1. I have said that before on this site. Regarding the holy spirit, in Genesis it says that Gods spirit moved over the face of the waters so there was mention of his spirit by the 2nd verse of the first chapter of Genesis. Also in the meeting tonight we opened up at Psalm 51 and this was in it. Psalm 51 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. So if the Jewish people don't believe in the holy spirit, why would king David mention him in a Psalm? I believe that we are saved from sin by Gods indwelling spirit. And it looks like David believed the same and I believe that Jesus came and showed us the way by not falling for temptation as Adam did. He came as an example for us to follow. And he gives us the strength to overcome. That God's spirit moved really isn't any indication that there is an entity called a Holy Spirit. Everyone has a spirit about them ... that can affect their surroundings ... as suggested in Psalm 51. I can imagine that being in the presence of God could create as holy a spirit in me as I felt in the presence of the doctor who cared for me as I recovered from my impending death. I have no doubt that my own spirit had an astounding readjustment. Note, the "holy spirit" mentioned in the Psalm is not "the" holy spirit, it is "thy holy spirit". There isn't anything wrong with you believing what you do -- all I intend to do is (91) point out that Christians aren't the authority on Jewish scriptures, and that (2) the Roman church designed and promoted by force their own version of what Christians believe. They did that supremely well. And Christians have spent the last 1800 years deciding how to make the scriptures conform to their doctrine.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 21, 2016 18:05:33 GMT -5
Yes, believing is a wonderful thing for this life, but there is this: 1 Cor 15:19-20 And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we are more to be pitied than anyone in the world. But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead. He is the first of a great harvest of all who have died.
Apparently, Paul was aware that what awaits beyond is so much greater that it makes the blessings of this life as if "miserable." Sort of like in Solomon's kingdom there was so much gold that silver was "as nothing." oops... miserable is from the KJV. I quoted the NLT! It was Paul who introduced the afterlife concept to Christianity -- otherwise they wouldn't be called Christians AT ALL. Remember, Pagan christs were the ones who were intended to instruct humans on how to "live with the gods". If Paul introduced the afterlife, why does Solomon talk about the spirit going back to God who gave it? Also, why would Jesus say to the thief on the cross as he was dying "today you will be with me in paradise " if there is no afterlife?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 18:07:46 GMT -5
Yes ellie, that is a good reason, but the afterlife is offered as a sort of bonus/jackpot, and most human nature propels us towards the jackpot. You mention the carrot but not the stick! Can you see that living is living whether you believe in an afterlife or not? There are people who live good lives without needing to be bribed. Would you live differently if you were not worried about hell and hoping for heaven? My friend, this world is made up of all kinds/sorts of People/ individuals, they live their lives to suit and please themselves; others live theirs to please God and themselves. Doing the will of God is always best. I guess that if I were not striving to serve God in spirit and in truth I would probably live life differently. Things I used to do, I do them no more.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 21, 2016 18:09:54 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to explain all that, that was interesting. And I probably believe a few things closer to the Jewish people than you think. As you may know, I don't believe in the trinity. There is only one God, also I don't believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans either. Adam had flesh when Eve was created, but besides that there are many things in Genesis that points toward Adam not being the first man. I.e as you said that men and women were created in chapter 1. I have said that before on this site. Regarding the holy spirit, in Genesis it says that Gods spirit moved over the face of the waters so there was mention of his spirit by the 2nd verse of the first chapter of Genesis. Also in the meeting tonight we opened up at Psalm 51 and this was in it. Psalm 51 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. So if the Jewish people don't believe in the holy spirit, why would king David mention him in a Psalm? I believe that we are saved from sin by Gods indwelling spirit. And it looks like David believed the same and I believe that Jesus came and showed us the way by not falling for temptation as Adam did. He came as an example for us to follow. And he gives us the strength to overcome. That God's spirit moved really isn't any indication that there is an entity called a Holy Spirit. Everyone has a spirit about them ... that can affect their surroundings ... as suggested in Psalm 51. I can imagine that being in the presence of God could create as holy a spirit in me as I felt in the presence of the doctor who cared for me as I recovered from my impending death. I have no doubt that my own spirit had an astounding readjustment. Note, the "holy spirit" mentioned in the Psalm is not "the" holy spirit, it is "thy holy spirit". There isn't anything wrong with you believing what you do -- all I intend to do is (91) point out that Christians aren't the authority on Jewish scriptures, and that (2) the Roman church designed and promoted by force their own version of what Christians believe. They did that supremely well. And Christians have spent the last 1800 years deciding how to make the scriptures conform to their doctrine. I believe that David saying thy holy spirit means Gods holy spirit as he was talking to God. And I believe very differently to what the catholic religion believes. In fact I believe far closer to the Jewish religion than that of the catholic religion.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 21, 2016 18:41:47 GMT -5
Why does there have to be an afterlife for there to be a purpose? If believing in God adds to this life here and now, isn't that reason enough to believe? Why believe in God if your not going to be with him when you die? The only reason someone would ask that question is because someone told them that it was actually a possibility. In the same line of reasoning, a Mormon would probably ask: "Why believe in God if you're not going to get your own planet when you die?" The first purpose of the salesman is to create in someone a desire to have something. According to the dictionary definition of "spirit", I believe all individuals have a spirit about themselves. But the question? It's a reasonable question to ask. Unfortunately, Christians have no more than a multitude of clever conjectures as to why that could be. Those who don't aspire to defend their dignified status in the universe are more likely to say. "Who knows?" or "I don't know." Who knows? I don't know. But as far as we can tell that is the case for every life form he ever created. The ancients knew nothing about the matter that composed the atmosphere. The movement of air was considered the spirit of God. Remember, when Adam "breathed", the oxygen he inhaled was the spirit of God. When a person died, that spirit was taken from them. Come to think of it, why do Christians not realize that the ancients had none of the scientific knowledge of modern times? Well, I already got to that one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 18:49:10 GMT -5
without Christ its all in vain... You are a believer. I am guessing you live what you consider a moral life. I, on the other hand, am a non-believer. I believe I also live a moral life. We are both living moral lives yet you state that mine is in vain. How is your life less vain than mine? Can you back up your premise? Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
there will be many on that great and terrible day that will say they lived a moral life and will be denied entry because they didn't do it(doeth the will) for Christ/God...its all about Christ/God...
Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 21, 2016 18:56:08 GMT -5
Why believe in God if your not going to be with him when you die? The only reason someone would ask that question is because someone told them that it was actually a possibility. In the same line of reasoning, a Mormon would probably ask: "Why believe in God if you're not going to get your own planet when you die?" The first purpose of the salesman is to create in someone a desire to have something. According to the dictionary definition of "spirit", I believe all individuals have a spirit about themselves. But the question? It's a reasonable question to ask. Unfortunately, Christians have no more than a multitude of clever conjectures as to why that could be. Those who don't aspire to defend their dignified status in the universe are more likely to say. "Who knows?" or "I don't know." Who knows? I don't know. But as far as we can tell that is the case for every life form he ever created. The ancients knew nothing about the matter that composed the atmosphere. The movement of air was considered the spirit of God. Remember, when Adam "breathed", the oxygen he inhaled was the spirit of God. When a person died, that spirit was taken from them. Come to think of it, why do Christians not realize that the ancients had none of the scientific knowledge of modern times? Well, I already got to that one. I see things differently to you, and i don't think we're going to agree, also I believe those who lived in ancient times, were more knowledgeable and more wise than you think. By the way, Jesus breathed the holy spirit into his disciples, and they were already breathing oxegen!
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 21, 2016 18:57:05 GMT -5
Why does there have to be an afterlife for there to be a purpose? If believing in God adds to this life here and now, isn't that reason enough to believe? Yes, believing is a wonderful thing for this life, but there is this: 1 Cor 15:19-20 And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we are more to be pitied than anyone in the world. But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead. He is the first of a great harvest of all who have died.
Apparently, Paul was aware that what awaits beyond is so much greater that it makes the blessings of this life as if "miserable." Sort of like in Solomon's kingdom there was so much gold that silver was "as nothing." oops... miserable is from the KJV. I quoted the NLT! Those quotes of Paul's actually puts into a nut shell the psychological reason WHY people want to believe in a life after death in spite of all what they KNOW happens to the mortal body at death.
They believe in a "life after death" because people want and hope to have something after death that they don't have in this life. Something perfect, something sublime, somewhere where there are no problems, no tears.
They KNOW what happens to the mortal body when it dies, - it is just a dead body and like all things that have been living when they die they decay, - all animals and all plants decay!.
WHY do people need to believe that "they" will some how continue to live in some "greater" place, -yet they don't believe that the dead body of a rat or the dead body of a briar bush will also go to some "greater" place beyond death?
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 21, 2016 18:57:21 GMT -5
It was Paul who introduced the afterlife concept to Christianity -- otherwise they wouldn't be called Christians AT ALL. Remember, Pagan christs were the ones who were intended to instruct humans on how to "live with the gods". If Paul introduced the afterlife, why does Solomon talk about the spirit going back to God who gave it? Also, why would Jesus say to the thief on the cross as he was dying "today you will be with me in paradise " if there is no afterlife? Solomon wasn't a Christian. When he died, the spirit/breath left him and went wherever the wind was supposed to go. The thief on the cross. Who knows? Modern Christians believe paradise is heaven. There are a lot of concerns about the whole crucifixion scene. The Christ, Mithra was executed in a similar scenario, but I don't know if it was accompanied by such political complications.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 21, 2016 19:05:37 GMT -5
If Paul introduced the afterlife, why does Solomon talk about the spirit going back to God who gave it? Also, why would Jesus say to the thief on the cross as he was dying "today you will be with me in paradise " if there is no afterlife? Solomon wasn't a Christian. When he died, the spirit/breath left him and went wherever the wind was supposed to go. The thief on the cross. Who knows? Modern Christians believe paradise is heaven. There are a lot of concerns about the whole crucifixion scene. The Christ, Mithra was executed in a similar scenario, but I don't know if it was accompanied by such political complications. But that's not what Solomon said, he said that the spirit goes back to God who gave it, not that his spirit was to go wherever the wind was supposed to go. Solomon knew that his spirit went back to God. Anyway, as I said I don't think we'll agree on this, as we see things very differently.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 21, 2016 19:08:10 GMT -5
The only reason someone would ask that question is because someone told them that it was actually a possibility. In the same line of reasoning, a Mormon would probably ask: "Why believe in God if you're not going to get your own planet when you die?" The first purpose of the salesman is to create in someone a desire to have something. According to the dictionary definition of "spirit", I believe all individuals have a spirit about themselves. But the question? It's a reasonable question to ask. Unfortunately, Christians have no more than a multitude of clever conjectures as to why that could be. Those who don't aspire to defend their dignified status in the universe are more likely to say. "Who knows?" or "I don't know." Who knows? I don't know. But as far as we can tell that is the case for every life form he ever created. The ancients knew nothing about the matter that composed the atmosphere. The movement of air was considered the spirit of God. Remember, when Adam "breathed", the oxygen he inhaled was the spirit of God. When a person died, that spirit was taken from them. Come to think of it, why do Christians not realize that the ancients had none of the scientific knowledge of modern times? Well, I already got to that one. I see things differently to you, and i don't think we're going to agree, also I believe those who lived in ancient times, were more knowledgeable and more wise than you think. By the way, Jesus breathed the holy spirit into his disciples, and they were already breathing oxegen! You're not differing with me. Your concerns are about religious truth, mine aren't. Your differences are with other ethnic and linguistic realities, which I quote. So tell me what the ancients knew that I said they didn't know.
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Post by rational on Apr 21, 2016 20:50:18 GMT -5
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
there will be many on that great and terrible day that will say they lived a moral life and will be denied entry because they didn't do it(doeth the will) for Christ/God...its all about Christ/God...
Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
You believe god sends people to hell even if they have lived a life as moral as a believer? Given that a person cannot make themselves believe what would the solution be?
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Post by ellie on Apr 21, 2016 21:15:09 GMT -5
Why does there have to be an afterlife for there to be a purpose? If believing in God adds to this life here and now, isn't that reason enough to believe? Yes, believing is a wonderful thing for this life, but there is this: 1 Cor 15:19-20 And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we are more to be pitied than anyone in the world. But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead. He is the first of a great harvest of all who have died.
Apparently, Paul was aware that what awaits beyond is so much greater that it makes the blessings of this life as if "miserable." Sort of like in Solomon's kingdom there was so much gold that silver was "as nothing." oops... miserable is from the KJV. I quoted the NLT! Ah Paul. Very intelligent, and driven theologian. Perhaps more Roman than Jew. I’m not entirely sure how to interpret the whole section, as there seems to be some metaphor in it that I haven’t got a handle on. Generally speaking though Paul does not seem to me to be the most happy of men. There are verses of his that reflect angst and despair and by the account parts of his life were pretty difficult. It would not surprise me if he, took comfort in visions and thoughts of hereafter and found that gave him a purpose for suffering. Possibly he wished the kind of comfort he felt for everybody whether or not that was for them.
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Post by ellie on Apr 21, 2016 21:42:48 GMT -5
You mention the carrot but not the stick! Can you see that living is living whether you believe in an afterlife or not? There are people who live good lives without needing to be bribed. Would you live differently if you were not worried about hell and hoping for heaven? My friend, this world is made up of all kinds/sorts of People/ individuals, they live their lives to suit and please themselves; others live theirs to please God and themselves. Doing the will of God is always best. I guess that if I were not striving to serve God in spirit and in truth I would probably live life differently. Things I used to do, I do them no more. Strange as it may seem, I can also say the things I used to do, I do them no more. I got older and some things have lost their appeal and some things I now realise were unkind things to be doing. I have a suspicion in another 10 years I will be able to say the same thing again and so on… It has more to do with getting older than it does to do with God.
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Post by ellie on Apr 21, 2016 21:52:58 GMT -5
Why does there have to be an afterlife for there to be a purpose? If believing in God adds to this life here and now, isn't that reason enough to believe? Why believe in God if your not going to be with him when you die? I don’t really see why not. There could be other reasons to believe. Can I assume from this that if it were not for the ideas of heaven and hell you would not believe in god? I don’t know but I thought most Christian believe that all things are possible with God and God’s ways are not our ways. I don’t think this verse describes a spirit that lives on at all. It might make more sense to interpret it as the ceasing of body and breath that has been loaned for a time.
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Post by rational on Apr 21, 2016 22:09:22 GMT -5
Strange as it may seem, I can also say the things I used to do, I do them no more. I got older :D and some things have lost their appeal and some things I now realise were unkind things to be doing. I have a suspicion in another 10 years I will be able to say the same thing again and so on… It has more to do with getting older than it does to do with God. You are going to have to stop this logical posting!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 22:24:07 GMT -5
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
there will be many on that great and terrible day that will say they lived a moral life and will be denied entry because they didn't do it(doeth the will) for Christ/God...its all about Christ/God...
Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
You believe god sends people to hell even if they have lived a life as moral as a believer? Given that a person cannot make themselves believe what would the solution be? Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
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Post by rational on Apr 21, 2016 22:36:22 GMT -5
You believe god sends people to hell even if they have lived a life as moral as a believer? Given that a person cannot make themselves believe what would the solution be? Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. Do you believe in Elves and Unicorns? Could you force yourself to believe?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 22:47:26 GMT -5
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. Do you believe in Elves and Unicorns? Could you force yourself to believe? some atheist have converted to Christianity rational so we know it can be done...
Atheists who converted to Christianity[edit] Alexis Carrel - French surgeon and biologist who was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1912.[1] Lee Strobel - American Christian Apologetic author. He has written several books, including four which received ECPA Christian Book Awards (1994, 1999, 2001, 2005)[2] and a series which addresses challenges to a Biblically inerrant view of Christianity.[3] Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn - Russian novelist, historian. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1970.[4] Vladimir Putin - Current President of the Russian Federation. Czesław Miłosz - poet, prose writer, translator and diplomat. He was awarded the Neustadt International Prize for Literature, and in 1980 the Nobel Prize in Literature.[5] Eben Alexander - neurosurgeon, author, teaching physician. Author of Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. C. S. Lewis Oxford Scholar cslewis.drzeus.net/bio/ and 'Surprised by Joy: The shape of my life' Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 1966 Dr David Catchpoole, B.Ag.Sc. (Hons), Ph.D. Plant Physiologist creation.com/david-catchpoole-cv Dr Emil Silvestru Geologist/karstologist Ph.D in geology at the ‘Babes-Bolyai’ University in Cluj, Romania creation.com/following-darwin-an-interview-with-dr-emil-silvestru Richard Peachey, B.Th., B.Sc. Richard Peachey creation.com/richard-peachey Dr Carl Wieland M.B., B.S creation.com/carl-wieland-retires Dr Russell Humphreys Physicist B.S., Duke University, Durham, NC, 1963, Ph.D., Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA, 1972 Beginning in 1979 he worked for Sandia National Laboratories (New Mexico) in nuclear physics, geophysics, pulsed-power research, and theoretical atomic and nuclear physics. In 1985, he began working with Sandia’s ‘Particle Beam Fusion Project’, and was co-inventor of special laser-triggered ‘Rimfire’ high-voltage switches, now coming into wider use. The last decade at Sandia saw greater emphasis on theoretical nuclear physics and radiation hydrodynamics in an effort to help produce the world’s first lab–scale thermonuclear fusion. Besides gaining two other U.S. patents, Dr Humphreys has been given two awards from Sandia, including an Award for Excellence for contributions to light ion–fusion target theory. creation.com/d-russell-humphreys-cv
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Post by rational on Apr 21, 2016 23:41:41 GMT -5
Do you believe in Elves and Unicorns? Could you force yourself to believe? some atheist have converted to Christianity rational so we know it can be done...
<snip> The question was whether you could force yourself to believe that elves and unicorns are real? I think I could produce a much much longer list of believers who became atheists but the lists are pointless. I don't have time to look into all of the names but I did look into the last name on the list. Where does it say Russell Humphreys was ever an atheist?
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Post by withlove on Apr 22, 2016 3:18:02 GMT -5
You are a believer. I am guessing you live what you consider a moral life. I, on the other hand, am a non-believer. I believe I also live a moral life. We are both living moral lives yet you state that mine is in vain. How is your life less vain than mine? Can you back up your premise? Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
there will be many on that great and terrible day that will say they lived a moral life and will be denied entry because they didn't do it(doeth the will) for Christ/God...its all about Christ/God...
Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
I'm also a believer but have trouble with the vain concept. Some people do moral thing for logical or social or financial reasons. Anyone of us can be guilty of this from time to time. Helping someone out with the expectation of being appreciated. Those actions can really impact people in a positive, helpful way, so in that sense they are not in vain. In terms of building rewards in heaven, they are in vain. Some good deeds are done because of true moral convictions...through our conscience or through genuine love or concern. It's problematic to say that is vain in any way. I have to to admit there are few times when I have done the right thing with the thought "I'm doing this for you, God." In fact most of the time I don't. And if I did, in some cases I would be guilty of not loving my brother or enemy, in which cases, it seems to me I would have been better off doing it without the thought that it is for God. Certainly there are times when we pray for God's help to do the right, yet difficult thing, but that is not the same as doing it FOR him. In the Good Samaritan story, was Jesus trying to teach us about doing the right thing by others, no matter our differences, or was he teaching love, or what? I don't know the answer, but I doubt the message was that the Samaritan's actions were in vain because he didn't know the God of Abraham.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 3:47:19 GMT -5
My friend, this world is made up of all kinds/sorts of People/ individuals, they live their lives to suit and please themselves; others live theirs to please God and themselves. Doing the will of God is always best. I guess that if I were not striving to serve God in spirit and in truth I would probably live life differently. Things I used to do, I do them no more. Strange as it may seem, I can also say the things I used to do, I do them no more. I got older and some things have lost their appeal and some things I now realise were unkind things to be doing. I have a suspicion in another 10 years I will be able to say the same thing again and so on… It has more to do with getting older than it does to do with God. As the pages of life are turning, we all have our experiences to live, endure and relate.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 6:27:38 GMT -5
Quote - "According to Ecclesiastes "All is vanity." Of course, he didn't believe in "Christ""
Solomon's own father wrote of Christ. His father was an important symbol in a book of symbols - the rejected and reigning king. Solomon would have been aquainted with the Torah which also spoke a lot of the coming Messiah.
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Post by rational on Apr 22, 2016 7:31:46 GMT -5
Doing the will of God is always best. The probllem is in determining who can say what the will of god is. There are countless times when people claimed to be doing the will of god. Parents killing their children. Religious groups slaughtering those who did not believe as they did. Certainly if your god is an all know all powerful all loving being that makes his will clearly known to people it would be a good thing. Buut there is no proof that such a being exists and, if there is one, the one area that needs work is communicating a clear and consistent message.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 8:54:39 GMT -5
Doing the will of God is always best. The probllem is in determining who can say what the will of god is. There are countless times when people claimed to be doing the will of god. Parents killing their children. Religious groups slaughtering those who did not believe as they did. Certainly if your god is an all know all powerful all loving being that makes his will clearly known to people it would be a good thing. Buut there is no proof that such a being exists and, if there is one, the one ares that needs work is communicating a clear and consistent message. Well my friend, there is no concrete proof that God doesn't exist either, so until there is concrete proof, I will stick to my guns that He is the Holy Spirit. Blessed are those who do not see and yet believe. I have never seen the wind oe electricity either, but I know and believe that they are there.
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Post by rational on Apr 22, 2016 10:25:06 GMT -5
The probllem is in determining who can say what the will of god is. There are countless times when people claimed to be doing the will of god. Parents killing their children. Religious groups slaughtering those who did not believe as they did. Certainly if your god is an all know all powerful all loving being that makes his will clearly known to people it would be a good thing. Buut there is no proof that such a being exists and, if there is one, the one ares that needs work is communicating a clear and consistent message. Well my friend, there is no concrete proof that God doesn't exist either, so until there is concrete proof, I will stick to my guns that He is the Holy Spirit. Blessed are those who do not see and yet believe. I have never seen the wind oe electricity either, but I know and believe that they are there. I take it you are not familiar with Schlieren photography. Sight is not the only sense. Turn on a light and you can see the results of electricity. No one is asking for any specific proof of god. Just anything that will verify the existence of such an entity. As far as proving the non-existence of god, that is a discussion that will be of great interest as soon as there is any evidence that even hints of a paranormal entity's existence.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 22, 2016 17:11:36 GMT -5
Do you believe in Elves and Unicorns? Could you force yourself to believe? some atheist have converted to Christianity rational so we know it can be done...
Atheists who converted to Christianity[edit] Alexis Carrel - French surgeon and biologist who was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1912.[1] Lee Strobel - American Christian Apologetic author. He has written several books, including four which received ECPA Christian Book Awards (1994, 1999, 2001, 2005)[2] and a series which addresses challenges to a Biblically inerrant view of Christianity.[3] Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn - Russian novelist, historian. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1970.[4] Vladimir Putin - Current President of the Russian Federation. Czesław Miłosz - poet, prose writer, translator and diplomat. He was awarded the Neustadt International Prize for Literature, and in 1980 the Nobel Prize in Literature.[5] Eben Alexander - neurosurgeon, author, teaching physician. Author of Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. C. S. Lewis Oxford Scholar cslewis.drzeus.net/bio/ and 'Surprised by Joy: The shape of my life' Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 1966 Dr David Catchpoole, B.Ag.Sc. (Hons), Ph.D. Plant Physiologist creation.com/david-catchpoole-cv Dr Emil Silvestru Geologist/karstologist Ph.D in geology at the ‘Babes-Bolyai’ University in Cluj, Romania creation.com/following-darwin-an-interview-with-dr-emil-silvestru Richard Peachey, B.Th., B.Sc. Richard Peachey creation.com/richard-peachey Dr Carl Wieland M.B., B.S creation.com/carl-wieland-retires Dr Russell Humphreys Physicist B.S., Duke University, Durham, NC, 1963, Ph.D., Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA, 1972 Beginning in 1979 he worked for Sandia National Laboratories (New Mexico) in nuclear physics, geophysics, pulsed-power research, and theoretical atomic and nuclear physics. In 1985, he began working with Sandia’s ‘Particle Beam Fusion Project’, and was co-inventor of special laser-triggered ‘Rimfire’ high-voltage switches, now coming into wider use. The last decade at Sandia saw greater emphasis on theoretical nuclear physics and radiation hydrodynamics in an effort to help produce the world’s first lab–scale thermonuclear fusion. Besides gaining two other U.S. patents, Dr Humphreys has been given two awards from Sandia, including an Award for Excellence for contributions to light ion–fusion target theory. creation.com/d-russell-humphreys-cv
SO?
Often those people who claim to have been Atheists and turned Christian actually hadn't even given religion much thought to start with.
But now the they have become Christians, WOW! don't they just love to try & convince us that they were atheists but now they see the light!
Lee Strobel is one.
Vladimir Putin ? You have to be kidding!
C. S. Lewis? Only converted to Christianity after his wife died and loved her so that he wanted to be with her in heaven.
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Post by rational on Apr 22, 2016 18:04:04 GMT -5
some atheist have converted to Christianity rational so we know it can be done...
Atheists who converted to Christianity[edit] Alexis Carrel - French surgeon and biologist who was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1912.[1] Lee Strobel - American Christian Apologetic author. He has written several books, including four which received ECPA Christian Book Awards (1994, 1999, 2001, 2005)[2] and a series which addresses challenges to a Biblically inerrant view of Christianity.[3] Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn - Russian novelist, historian. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1970.[4] Vladimir Putin - Current President of the Russian Federation. Czesław Miłosz - poet, prose writer, translator and diplomat. He was the Neustadt International Prize for Literature, and in 1980 the Nobel Prize in Literature.[5] Eben Alexander - neurosurgeon, author, teaching physician. Author of Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. C. S. Lewis Oxford Scholar cslewis.drzeus.net/bio/ and 'Surprised by Joy: The shape of my life' Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 1966 Dr David Catchpoole, B.Ag.Sc. (Hons), Ph.D. Plant Physiologist creation.com/david-catchpoole-cv Dr Emil Silvestru Geologist/karstologist Ph.D in geology at the ‘Babes-Bolyai’ University in Cluj, Romania creation.com/following-darwin-an-interview-with-dr-emil-silvestru Richard Peachey, B.Th., B.Sc. Richard Peachey creation.com/richard-peachey Dr Carl Wieland M.B., B.S creation.com/carl-wieland-retires Dr Russell Humphreys Physicist B.S., Duke University, Durham, NC, 1963, Ph.D., Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA, 1972 Beginning in 1979 he worked for Sandia National Laboratories (New Mexico) in nuclear physics, geophysics, pulsed-power research, and theoretical atomic and nuclear physics. In 1985, he began working with Sandia’s ‘Particle Beam Fusion Project’, and was co-inventor of special laser-triggered ‘Rimfire’ high-voltage switches, now coming into wider use. The last decade at Sandia saw greater emphasis on theoretical nuclear physics and radiation hydrodynamics in an effort to help produce the world’s first lab–scale thermonuclear fusion. Besides gaining two other U.S. patents, Dr Humphreys has been given two awards from Sandia, including an Award for Excellence for contributions to light ion–fusion target theory. creation.com/d-russell-humphreys-cv
Why am I not surprised that the vast majority of your examples come from that site of unimpeachable integrity, creation.com. Adding sarcasm tags to ProBoards would be useful!
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