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Post by alfaromeo on Apr 19, 2016 21:42:20 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,,
Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me.
Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012.
Now the thought of going back to meetings almost disgusts me. I wasn't treated badly, and the friends here never talked in bad ways like I read in some comments, posts here and on facebook. However, the thought of people marvelling at psychological phenomenon created by empathy, simulation of giving self, relieving, and etc. really bothers me.
I am now married to someone who doesn't go to meetings. My parents love her and we are happy. Dad was a worker for many years, and parents are both going to meetings. However, they seem to understand where I am coming from.
I don't think I have any anger issues... but workers anger me.
I personally believe that workers are mostly a mix of uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. I have met very well educated ones but extremely power-hungry. and etc etc.
I am always careful in what I say and how I say things. I think this post is my first time giving a raw opinion about anything in words/writing.
I will stop my very scattered post here. I go on some facebook pages every day, but I am too nervous to post anything.
So here I am posting what seems to be a meaningless thread anonymously.. I am still confused, and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me. I was always good at observing and understanding how others think, so I fit in.. I say the right things.. But I feel as if I am a broken part of this society.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 22:10:43 GMT -5
the real question is did you lose your faith in God/Jesus and what are you going to do about that?
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Post by speak on Apr 19, 2016 22:11:35 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Now the thought of going back to meetings almost disgusts me. I wasn't treated badly, and the friends here never talked in bad ways like I read in some comments, posts here and on facebook. However, the thought of people marvelling at psychological phenomenon created by empathy, simulation of giving self, relieving, and etc. really bothers me. I am now married to someone who doesn't go to meetings. My parents love her and we are happy. Dad was a worker for many years, and parents are both going to meetings. However, they seem to understand where I am coming from. I don't think I have any anger issues... but workers anger me. I personally believe that workers are mostly a mix of uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. I have met very well educated ones but extremely power-hungry. and etc etc. I am always careful in what I say and how I say things. I think this post is my first time giving a raw opinion about anything in words/writing. I will stop my very scattered post here. I go on some facebook pages every day, but I am too nervous to post anything. So here I am posting what seems to be a meaningless thread anonymously.. I am still confused, and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me. I was always good at observing and understanding how others think, so I fit in.. I say the right things.. But I feel as if I am a broken part of this society. Do you believe there is a God? How many workers do you personally know? I mean really know, not just know of or have meet a few times, but know that they are uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. Can you tell us of their uneducation/levels of education? Can you please show us the having or showing an excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance of each worker you personally know? Can you please show us examples of the power-hungry workers you personally know? And can you please show us examples of in the closet (sexually) of the workers you personally Know? Thanks in advance for the answers you shall give.
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Post by fixit on Apr 19, 2016 22:12:22 GMT -5
Do you feel your Dad was any of "uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually)"?
Do you feel a broken part of professing society, or society at large?
(Just trying to better understand your concerns)
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 19, 2016 22:22:41 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Now the thought of going back to meetings almost disgusts me. I wasn't treated badly, and the friends here never talked in bad ways like I read in some comments, posts here and on facebook. However, the thought of people marvelling at psychological phenomenon created by empathy, simulation of giving self, relieving, and etc. really bothers me. I am now married to someone who doesn't go to meetings. My parents love her and we are happy. Dad was a worker for many years, and parents are both going to meetings. However, they seem to understand where I am coming from. I don't think I have any anger issues... but workers anger me. I personally believe that workers are mostly a mix of uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. I have met very well educated ones but extremely power-hungry. and etc etc. I am always careful in what I say and how I say things. I think this post is my first time giving a raw opinion about anything in words/writing. I will stop my very scattered post here. I go on some facebook pages every day, but I am too nervous to post anything. So here I am posting what seems to be a meaningless thread anonymously.. I am still confused, and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me. I was always good at observing and understanding how others think, so I fit in.. I say the right things.. But I feel as if I am a broken part of this society. I understand exactly what you mean about "and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me." I feel like I was never allowed to be a teenager, or to be who I really am. We had to be who others wanted us to be ! I know that not everyone was raised how I was in the 2x2's, but that was my experience.
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Post by withlove on Apr 19, 2016 23:41:36 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Now the thought of going back to meetings almost disgusts me. I wasn't treated badly, and the friends here never talked in bad ways like I read in some comments, posts here and on facebook. However, the thought of people marvelling at psychological phenomenon created by empathy, simulation of giving self, relieving, and etc. really bothers me. I am now married to someone who doesn't go to meetings. My parents love her and we are happy. Dad was a worker for many years, and parents are both going to meetings. However, they seem to understand where I am coming from. I don't think I have any anger issues... but workers anger me. I personally believe that workers are mostly a mix of uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. I have met very well educated ones but extremely power-hungry. and etc etc. I am always careful in what I say and how I say things. I think this post is my first time giving a raw opinion about anything in words/writing. I will stop my very scattered post here. I go on some facebook pages every day, but I am too nervous to post anything. So here I am posting what seems to be a meaningless thread anonymously.. I am still confused, and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me. I was always good at observing and understanding how others think, so I fit in.. I say the right things.. But I feel as if I am a broken part of this society. Yours is not a meaningless post. It helps writer and readers. Many people don't tell their stories at all. Anger is natural and expected. And grief. Some say leaving is like a death in the family (for the leaver). There is confusion and pain. Knowing how how to fit in at our own cost is a coping skill that does not serve us well in most real life situations, so that is one of the many things we have to work on after leaving. You are not alone. I encourage you to read about critical thinking, deprogramming, or just stories of other people who left this or other groups. And be in touch with someone (at least) who gets it. If you don't stay here, consider TLC or a support group. The more specific to your situation, the better. It is not exactly peaceful around here, but this forum has helped me tremendously in my recovery. I think every poster has taught me something. It is so humbling to start over and have to re-frame your world view, and reevaluate your belief system. You can be very grateful that you've allowed yourself that chance. It takes time (Im new at it too), but may be the most worthwhile thing we will do. If if heaven be for you, who can be against?
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 20, 2016 0:01:49 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Now the thought of going back to meetings almost disgusts me. I wasn't treated badly, and the friends here never talked in bad ways like I read in some comments, posts here and on facebook. However, the thought of people marvelling at psychological phenomenon created by empathy, simulation of giving self, relieving, and etc. really bothers me. I am now married to someone who doesn't go to meetings. My parents love her and we are happy. Dad was a worker for many years, and parents are both going to meetings. However, they seem to understand where I am coming from. I don't think I have any anger issues... but workers anger me. I personally believe that workers are mostly a mix of uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. I have met very well educated ones but extremely power-hungry. and etc etc. I am always careful in what I say and how I say things. I think this post is my first time giving a raw opinion about anything in words/writing. I will stop my very scattered post here. I go on some facebook pages every day, but I am too nervous to post anything. So here I am posting what seems to be a meaningless thread anonymously.. I am still confused, and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me. I was always good at observing and understanding how others think, so I fit in.. I say the right things.. But I feel as if I am a broken part of this society. I completely empathize with what you've said. Just remember this: When you jump from the frying pan, make sure you don't jump into the fire.
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Post by speak on Apr 20, 2016 0:08:28 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Now the thought of going back to meetings almost disgusts me. I wasn't treated badly, and the friends here never talked in bad ways like I read in some comments, posts here and on facebook. However, the thought of people marvelling at psychological phenomenon created by empathy, simulation of giving self, relieving, and etc. really bothers me. I am now married to someone who doesn't go to meetings. My parents love her and we are happy. Dad was a worker for many years, and parents are both going to meetings. However, they seem to understand where I am coming from. I don't think I have any anger issues... but workers anger me. I personally believe that workers are mostly a mix of uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. I have met very well educated ones but extremely power-hungry. and etc etc. I am always careful in what I say and how I say things. I think this post is my first time giving a raw opinion about anything in words/writing. I will stop my very scattered post here. I go on some facebook pages every day, but I am too nervous to post anything. So here I am posting what seems to be a meaningless thread anonymously.. I am still confused, and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me. I was always good at observing and understanding how others think, so I fit in.. I say the right things.. But I feel as if I am a broken part of this society. I completely empathize with what you've said. Just remember this: When you jump from the frying pan, make sure you don't jump into the fire. To late.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 20, 2016 0:11:53 GMT -5
I completely empathize with what you've said. Just remember this: When you jump from the frying pan, make sure you don't jump into the fire. To late. Exactly how do you know that speak ? Are you saying that if a person leaves the 2x2's (Only right way) in their eyes, they are jumping into the fire !!! ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 20, 2016 0:12:51 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Now the thought of going back to meetings almost disgusts me. I wasn't treated badly, and the friends here never talked in bad ways like I read in some comments, posts here and on facebook. However, the thought of people marvelling at psychological phenomenon created by empathy, simulation of giving self, relieving, and etc. really bothers me. I am now married to someone who doesn't go to meetings. My parents love her and we are happy. Dad was a worker for many years, and parents are both going to meetings. However, they seem to understand where I am coming from. I don't think I have any anger issues... but workers anger me. I personally believe that workers are mostly a mix of uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. I have met very well educated ones but extremely power-hungry. and etc etc. I am always careful in what I say and how I say things. I think this post is my first time giving a raw opinion about anything in words/writing. I will stop my very scattered post here. I go on some facebook pages every day, but I am too nervous to post anything. So here I am posting what seems to be a meaningless thread anonymously.. I am still confused, and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me. I was always good at observing and understanding how others think, so I fit in.. I say the right things.. But I feel as if I am a broken part of this society. I completely empathize with what you've said. Just remember this: When you jump from the frying pan, make sure you don't jump into the fire. BobWilliston, wish I could like your response more than once
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 20, 2016 0:13:35 GMT -5
I completely empathize with what you've said. Just remember this: When you jump from the frying pan, make sure you don't jump into the fire. To too late. Someone else it too late too.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 20, 2016 1:01:02 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Now the thought of going back to meetings almost disgusts me. I wasn't treated badly, and the friends here never talked in bad ways like I read in some comments, posts here and on facebook. However, the thought of people marvelling at psychological phenomenon created by empathy, simulation of giving self, relieving, and etc. really bothers me. I am now married to someone who doesn't go to meetings. My parents love her and we are happy. Dad was a worker for many years, and parents are both going to meetings. However, they seem to understand where I am coming from. I don't think I have any anger issues... but workers anger me. I personally believe that workers are mostly a mix of uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. I have met very well educated ones but extremely power-hungry. and etc etc. I am always careful in what I say and how I say things. I think this post is my first time giving a raw opinion about anything in words/writing. I will stop my very scattered post here. I go on some facebook pages every day, but I am too nervous to post anything. So here I am posting what seems to be a meaningless thread anonymously.. I am still confused, and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me. I was always good at observing and understanding how others think, so I fit in.. I say the right things.. But I feel as if I am a broken part of this society. Alfaromeo, thank you for posting.
Your story resonates with a lot of others here. Many of us have been in your position or similar ones.
So, please stay with us. We welcome you.
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Post by Lee on Apr 20, 2016 1:14:28 GMT -5
I've learned over the years its good to be circumspect. Still learning. Theres nothing especially simple about life. Im forty five, lived life apart from 2x2s for than half my life. IMO their optics on truth are narrow, and sometimes theyre perverse. IMO you must interpret and edit their professions to reconcile them to Christ. Neither are easy to comprehend.
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Post by ellie on Apr 20, 2016 2:31:29 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Hi alfaromeo . I am excited to see a young person posting here! I am curious, and you can of course ignore my questions but did you leave meetings for good when you started university in 2012? If you don’t mind me asking what was it about websites about the fellowship that troubled you five years ago?Congrats – married life is awesome Unless you are causing harm to someone, or something, then I think expressing some anger is perfectly reasonable given the circumstances I think here might be a better place to be posting than facebook, as it’s somewhat more anonymous, but you might face more people here with strong opinions which are very different to yours. It’s not too bad though. I find many posts I read on here, especially the heated ones, are actually all about the people posting and nothing personal.This isn’t a meaningless thread at all. It’s normal to be confused at times, ha I’m confused most of the time. I think maybe I understand a little bit of how you feel that two decades have been taken from you as well. There were opportunities in my first 18 years that I didn’t have and there’s obviously time that I invested in meetings and won’t get back. Welcome, please stay around, keen to see some more posts from you if you stay
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Post by rational on Apr 20, 2016 6:59:31 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Hi alfaromeo . I am excited to see a young person posting here! I am curious, and you can of course ignore my questions :) but did you leave meetings for good when you started university in 2012? If you don’t mind me asking what was it about websites about the fellowship that troubled you five years ago?Congrats – married life is awesome :) Unless you are causing harm to someone, or something, then I think expressing some anger is perfectly reasonable given the circumstances :) I think here might be a better place to be posting than facebook, as it’s somewhat more anonymous, but you might face more people here with strong opinions which are very different to yours. It’s not too bad though. I find many posts I read on here, especially the heated ones, are actually all about the people posting and nothing personal.This isn’t a meaningless thread at all. It’s normal to be confused at times, ha I’m confused most of the time. I think maybe I understand a little bit of how you feel that two decades have been taken from you as well. There were opportunities in my first 18 years that I didn’t have and there’s obviously time that I invested in meetings and won’t get back. Welcome, please stay around, keen to see some more posts from you if you stay :) Off topic a bit but what a great posting style ellie. Very clear what points were being addressed! No danger of misquoting!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 8:50:05 GMT -5
the real question is did you lose your faith in God/Jesus and what are you going to do about that? That is a very good question wally. If the faith in God/Jesus is still there then it is worth remembering what Jesus said and He stands by His word: where two or more are gathered ln my name, there I will be in the midst of them. Find another gathering in the name of Jesus.He will be there as promised. I believe that there are many righteous people in other churches, no one (single) church has a manopoly.
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Post by penguin on Apr 20, 2016 13:26:21 GMT -5
The "where 2 are gathered" scripture relates to the resolution of disputes but has been used time after time to justify fellowship on a small scale, but it is not the original sense of the verse.
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Post by alfaromeo on Apr 20, 2016 14:33:30 GMT -5
I really did not expect replies to my thread. It still surprises me that there is an online presence to 2x2 ism (see I cringed as I typed how we are named..)
The question about faith in god is a good one. See, I am not sure anymore if I even had faith in god before, or if I was brought up trying to please workers and family so I just took a bunch of procedural steps, say all the right things, and etc. I learned how to say things in a really convincing way and almost in a manipulative way by pseudo-exposing a vulnerable side of my human side, but at the same time getting my point across and impressing audience. Yes I am talking about testimonies... Now I am wondering if 'faith' for me was embedded in the procedures and structures (testimonies, convention, pleasing workers, working hard on B days haha). So as my education advanced, I turned to science and theory of knowledge. They make sense right..??
So one of the biggest issue for me is, if we cannot logically understand God (as christians love to say), then why are we trying to understand, discuss such entity in a logical way to start with? Because logically,,, every dead end argument can just be ended with "well, our logic cannot conceptualize the great works of.. etc etc"
Also,, excluding homosexual people. I am so shamed to say that I grew up feeling disgusted by them, and thinking that they were criminals, sinners, and horrible people who were just rebels.
Since my dad was a worker, I know a lot of workers probably more than other 'friends'. They isolate themselves from anything 'worldly' but sadly, they almost seem like socially handicapped people. I don't know what the average age for this forum is but I am 22 years old. I am very observant, and I work with marketing, business, PR on a daily basis. My gaydar is pretty accurate haha. And so many brother workers,,,, bleep so hard on the gaydar. Also, when they speak in meetings, their lack of education seeps through and makes ignorant claims, and how am I supposed to react to that? When it comes to homosexuality, evolution, psychology, how old the earth is... and etc.
I also studied neuropsychology, (my wife more into molecular neuroplasticity and other hard things that I kind of gave up on haha), and we theorize the role of religion in our lives. Sex, food/hunger, communication/language, math, and everything has evolutionary purpose.. so what is the role of religion? have humans tapped into the feeling of relief and dependency, mixed it with fear of unknown, and created an extremely appealing idea of religion? of course things vary between one to another..
I would be so happy to go back to meetings if the idea of 'we are the only way and this is better than anything else' attitude went away, and if people acknowledged history and science (as truth is truth) - there's a quote 'as truth is truth' haha. Also once those notions go away... what is the role of workers?
This 'better than thou' attitude carried in school for me. So basically in Jr. High, I was that kid who knew nothing about any cultural reference, who wore no jeans, never got to hung out with anyone (there are almost no young 'friends' here), but who started peak of puberty.. so sexually it was horrifying, socially it was even worse. (wanting to fit in and wanting to have friends was rejected by thoughts of 'no this is sin. must not mingle, they are probably doing drugs after school' Not even joking, thats what I thought) .
So once again here is another scattered post. Every time I imagine any of you, I still have chill going down my spine. I mean,, did anyone even imagine that our truth/meetings/the way was being talked about? and that worldly people even knew about us? I guess subconsciously I just believed that if anyone knew about us, they would just join and profess and be saved...
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 20, 2016 14:48:33 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Now the thought of going back to meetings almost disgusts me. I wasn't treated badly, and the friends here never talked in bad ways like I read in some comments, posts here and on facebook. However, the thought of people marvelling at psychological phenomenon created by empathy, simulation of giving self, relieving, and etc. really bothers me. I am now married to someone who doesn't go to meetings. My parents love her and we are happy. Dad was a worker for many years, and parents are both going to meetings. However, they seem to understand where I am coming from. I don't think I have any anger issues... but workers anger me. I personally believe that workers are mostly a mix of uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. I have met very well educated ones but extremely power-hungry. and etc etc. I am always careful in what I say and how I say things. I think this post is my first time giving a raw opinion about anything in words/writing. I will stop my very scattered post here. I go on some facebook pages every day, but I am too nervous to post anything. So here I am posting what seems to be a meaningless thread anonymously.. I am still confused, and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me. I was always good at observing and understanding how others think, so I fit in.. I say the right things.. But I feel as if I am a broken part of this society. Answering those questions of yours Mr Speak would be answering up a can of worms. If I was to answer them in the NZ context I would list names but not whether I thought they were narcissistic or closet homosexuals or power hungry. I would leave that to you to work out. How would you categorize yourself?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 15:13:31 GMT -5
The "where 2 are gathered" scripture relates to the resolution of disputes but has been used time after time to justify fellowship on a small scale, but it is not the original sense of the verse. You may well be right, but i'll tell you this, hymn 174 is one of my favourites: In the name of Jesus Gathering, from the world we come apart..... Chorus: Lord refresh our hearts today; teach us how to truly pray; Keep us faithful, true, responsive, listening to thy voice always. I try to listen to that still small voice always, and I am convinced that it tells me when all is not well, and all is not well in the fellowship. God speaks to some of us and through some of us, God loves honesty and honest hearts, no covering up of things that are not approved by Him. Hymn #299 Approve of God is also very inspiring.
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Post by emy on Apr 20, 2016 15:49:59 GMT -5
You may well be right, but i'll tell you this, hymn 174 is one of my favourites: In the name of Jesus Gathering, from the world we come apart..... Chorus: Lord refresh our hearts today; teach us how to truly pray; Keep us faithful, true, responsive, listening to thy voice always. I try to listen to that still small voice always, and I am convinced that it tells me when all is not well, and all is not well in the fellowship.God speaks to some of us and through some of us, God loves honesty and honest hearts, no covering up of things that are not approved by Him. Hymn #299 Approve of God is also very inspiring. When Jesus said this: The time is coming when everything that is covered up will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all. Whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be shouted from the housetops for all to hear! (Luke 12: 2-3) What time was he talking about? These verses give me reassurance that I can safely leave matters of the church in God's hand. PS, Alfaromeo, I went back and read your posts from July 2011. Have you read them? You can do so by clicking on your name and then "this person's recent posts".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 16:01:44 GMT -5
You may well be right, but i'll tell you this, hymn 174 is one of my favourites: In the name of Jesus Gathering, from the world we come apart..... Chorus: Lord refresh our hearts today; teach us how to truly pray; Keep us faithful, true, responsive, listening to thy voice always. I try to listen to that still small voice always, and I am convinced that it tells me when all is not well, and all is not well in the fellowship.God speaks to some of us and through some of us, God loves honesty and honest hearts, no covering up of things that are not approved by Him. Hymn #299 Approve of God is also very inspiring. When Jesus said this: The time is coming when everything that is covered up will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all. Whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be shouted from the housetops for all to hear! (Luke 12: 2-3) What time was he talking about? These verses give me reassurance that I can safely leave matters of the church in God's hand. PS, Alfaromeo, I went back and read your posts from July 2011. Have you read them? You can do so by clicking on your name and then "this person's recent posts". I agree with you emy, I leave matters, not only of this church, but other churches as well, in God's hands, and He will be the righteous judge in all matters.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 16:56:40 GMT -5
AlphaRomeo
A couple of important points to remember:
1) 2x2s are not bad or evil people. In fact they are just average people like everyone else in this world - they have both good and bad behavior. 2) Many people are in 2x2ism for many different reasons; don't know any different, like the social aspect, like the certainty, like the exclusiveness, etc. 3) 2x2ism does misrepresent the Gospels in a number of significant ways, significant to question if 2x2s are even Christians. 4) Almost all the problems of 2x2ism (abuse, misrepresentation, sex crimes, improper controls on money, controlling, authoritarianism, etc) are all the result of having an organizational structure that is academically described as despotism - meaning that there are no written bylaws, there are no methods of redress against the rulers, there are no democratic processes at all, etc. It is a system where the rulers rule and whatever they say goes, even if it is completely contradictory from one day to the next.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 20, 2016 17:36:30 GMT -5
I have bottled this up for so long,, Summer night of July 2011, (could've been late June) I was coming home from attending a convention 2 hr flight away. I was spiritually very motivated, I gave my heartfelt testimony and on my way back home from the airport, I remember clearly, having a renewed purpose in me. Fast forward.. 30 minutes. I suddenly start searching terms like 'convention, workers, meetings' on google. and I tumble upon articles, and sites like this. I was so troubled. I kept going to meetings until I started going to university fall of 2012. Now the thought of going back to meetings almost disgusts me. I wasn't treated badly, and the friends here never talked in bad ways like I read in some comments, posts here and on facebook. However, the thought of people marvelling at psychological phenomenon created by empathy, simulation of giving self, relieving, and etc. really bothers me. I am now married to someone who doesn't go to meetings. My parents love her and we are happy. Dad was a worker for many years, and parents are both going to meetings. However, they seem to understand where I am coming from. I don't think I have any anger issues... but workers anger me. I personally believe that workers are mostly a mix of uneducated, narcissistic, power-hungry, in the closet (sexually) people. I have met very well educated ones but extremely power-hungry. and etc etc. I am always careful in what I say and how I say things. I think this post is my first time giving a raw opinion about anything in words/writing. I will stop my very scattered post here. I go on some facebook pages every day, but I am too nervous to post anything. So here I am posting what seems to be a meaningless thread anonymously.. I am still confused, and I feel like my first two decades were taken away from me. I was always good at observing and understanding how others think, so I fit in.. I say the right things.. But I feel as if I am a broken part of this society. This is what we feel when we are grieving about what we knew of in recent pasts. Give yourself time to get to know who you are and yes that can be difficult. I understand that as I didn't know who I was when I first left 2x2ism and married someone who was comfortable in his own skin. He was my help in establishing who I was without expecting me to be anything but myself. Doing that which we know is always expected of us sure plays havoc with our own identity. Best of wishes.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 20, 2016 17:45:30 GMT -5
The "where 2 are gathered" scripture relates to the resolution of disputes but has been used time after time to justify fellowship on a small scale, but it is not the original sense of the verse. I believe that it can be used in the fact that 2 or/3witnesses will hold forth the real truth.
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Post by magpie on Apr 20, 2016 17:56:03 GMT -5
Dear Alpharomeo, God's Grace is a gift,hold onto your faith. But listen and watch,you appear very intellegent,the Holy Spirit is alive and well,and He wont let you waste your searching and past experiences,He will lead you to where these things can be of use to His service,workplace,neighborhood, friends and relatives. These people around us are,as important to Him as everyone else,they are our personal mission fields,for a faithful life.A very close R/Catholic friend,a tireless older person who has not stopped helping the poor,abused and disadvantaged in our City, said when the R/C CSA crimes exploded,"they have destroyed my church,but they can never destroy my faith". Stick with it(as we were taught to evade much scripture) you and your bride,God is always just close by,Love to you Both. Maggie (35yrs in,now 42yrs out and flourishing in God's Grace and wonderful fruitful fellowship)
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Post by sharingtheriches on Apr 20, 2016 17:58:49 GMT -5
I really did not expect replies to my thread. It still surprises me that there is an online presence to 2x2 ism (see I cringed as I typed how we are named..) The question about faith in god is a good one. See, I am not sure anymore if I even had faith in god before, or if I was brought up trying to please workers and family so I just took a bunch of procedural steps, say all the right things, and etc. I learned how to say things in a really convincing way and almost in a manipulative way by pseudo-exposing a vulnerable side of my human side, but at the same time getting my point across and impressing audience. Yes I am talking about testimonies... Now I am wondering if 'faith' for me was embedded in the procedures and structures (testimonies, convention, pleasing workers, working hard on B days haha). So as my education advanced, I turned to science and theory of knowledge. They make sense right..?? So one of the biggest issue for me is, if we cannot logically understand God (as christians love to say), then why are we trying to understand, discuss such entity in a logical way to start with? Because logically,,, every dead end argument can just be ended with "well, our logic cannot conceptualize the great works of.. etc etc" Also,, excluding homosexual people. I am so shamed to say that I grew up feeling disgusted by them, and thinking that they were criminals, sinners, and horrible people who were just rebels. Since my dad was a worker, I know a lot of workers probably more than other 'friends'. They isolate themselves from anything 'worldly' but sadly, they almost seem like socially handicapped people. I don't know what the average age for this forum is but I am 22 years old. I am very observant, and I work with marketing, business, PR on a daily basis. My gaydar is pretty accurate haha. And so many brother workers,,,, bleep so hard on the gaydar. Also, when they speak in meetings, their lack of education seeps through and makes ignorant claims, and how am I supposed to react to that? When it comes to homosexuality, evolution, psychology, how old the earth is... and etc. I also studied neuropsychology, (my wife more into molecular neuroplasticity and other hard things that I kind of gave up on haha), and we theorize the role of religion in our lives. Sex, food/hunger, communication/language, math, and everything has evolutionary purpose.. so what is the role of religion? have humans tapped into the feeling of relief and dependency, mixed it with fear of unknown, and created an extremely appealing idea of religion? of course things vary between one to another.. I would be so happy to go back to meetings if the idea of 'we are the only way and this is better than anything else' attitude went away, and if people acknowledged history and science (as truth is truth) - there's a quote 'as truth is truth' haha. Also once those notions go away... what is the role of workers? This 'better than thou' attitude carried in school for me. So basically in Jr. High, I was that kid who knew nothing about any cultural reference, who wore no jeans, never got to hung out with anyone (there are almost no young 'friends' here), but who started peak of puberty.. so sexually it was horrifying, socially it was even worse. (wanting to fit in and wanting to have friends was rejected by thoughts of 'no this is sin. must not mingle, they are probably doing drugs after school' Not even joking, thats what I thought) . So once again here is another scattered post. Every time I imagine any of you, I still have chill going down my spine. I mean,, did anyone even imagine that our truth/meetings/the way was being talked about? and that worldly people even knew about us? I guess subconsciously I just believed that if anyone knew about us, they would just join and profess and be saved... 2x2ism is purposefully kept private and mum to make people think it is so great an advantage to be in with the few and the brave. This is one thing that caused me to understand that2x2s have nothing of the joyous gospel of Christ simply because even human nature makes us want to share such joyous news. Jesus fully intended that his gospel be shared. He even was using thee years of his young life giving his fellow Judeans a last chance at turning back to God after God had declared He was giving salvation to the gentiles or heathen nations because Need had polluted the Mosaic law given centuries beforTo understandany religion one needs to know the tenets of faith for that religion. Thev2x2s have been told that 2 things are what holds them apart from the world and is vital. That is the 2x2 itinerant ministry and the meetings in the home. I have asked where is Jesus in that?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 18:02:49 GMT -5
It has been of interest to me what you express, beginning with your posts from 2011.
At that time, others responded to your posts here, and then your posts to the forum ended. I have read them all.
You are young, just beginning on your journey. I am old, disabled, capable of very little.
Having expressed that, I wish to make some more comments, as the shadows lengthen across this little landscape of my life. When we are young, shadows shorten, reflective of "before noon." Then as years pass, those shadows lengthen and faster with each perception of life's day.
When very young, "Alfar" my experiences could have been those you recounted, even down to not wearing jeans, smile! Few in life from my parent's generation remain alive, and now even many of my own generation are now gone. So far not one in this forum nor my own life experiences have been able to remove, destroy the blessings (happiness, joy) promised my Lord to those who have not seen, yet believe. Believe what? Not those things proclaimed by many to be "Christian."
Rather, it is what I believe about Yahu'shuah ha Meshiac the one the English world most commonly knows by the name of "Jesus." Belief in Him as my only "absolute" in life, has created understanding of this blessing, among others:
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in His law doth he meditate day and night...
What "blessing, (joy, happiness) that does not end for them at death can the scornful, ungodly offer as certainty for "our" being? It is my choice to believe in Yahu'shuah (translated for me) as "God-Savior" I do need such a one despite myriads who believe they do not.
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