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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2015 20:20:00 GMT -5
Been lots of chatter re the Pope addressing US Congress, and not mentioning Jesus once. One wonders if the Pope finds the subject embarrassing. He comes across as another Dali Lama.
If so then there's really nothing new about this attitude.
The early Catholic church of the 2nd and 3rd centuries found Jesus embarrassing. We know because they reshaped the man into someone more appealing.
Jesus was no longer the plain looking Jew of Isaiah, but now a gorgeous Anglo man. Jesus was now a man of the world, taking on worldly issues. Jesus wasn't an itinerant minister but one who is presented as a baby, a martyr and someone who did it all for us. Jesus is no longer a New Covenant preacher but a priestly figure from the Old Testament. Even Jesus' lowly mother got a makeover - she herself was born a virgin, of royal stock.
In short, the church was ashamed of who he really was. These days, apparently, it doesn't matter because fewer and fewer churches even mention His name.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2015 20:31:39 GMT -5
Religion performed what some called "social utility" for many generations. It explained thing - it gave comfort, it was a form of entertainment and it provided social access. This is no longer required as these people have new means of achieving these things. In short - church wasn't really about church at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2015 21:09:32 GMT -5
probably not the list of reasons why is endless...
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 28, 2015 1:05:43 GMT -5
Been lots of chatter re the Pope addressing US Congress, and not mentioning Jesus once. One wonders if the Pope finds the subject embarrassing. He comes across as another Dali Lama.
If so then there's really nothing new about this attitude.
The early Catholic church of the 2nd and 3rd centuries found Jesus embarrassing. We know because they reshaped the man into someone more appealing.
Jesus was no longer the plain looking Jew of Isaiah, but now a gorgeous Anglo man. Jesus was now a man of the world, taking on worldly issues. Jesus wasn't an itinerant minister but one who is presented as a baby, a martyr and someone who did it all for us. Jesus is no longer a New Covenant preacher but a priestly figure from the Old Testament. Even Jesus' lowly mother got a makeover - she herself was born a virgin, of royal stock.
In short, the church was ashamed of who he really was. These days, apparently, it doesn't matter because fewer and fewer churches even mention His name. Did you not watch his speech to Congress?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 23:12:44 GMT -5
No I didn't watch his speech. I would no more watch his speech to Congress than watch Congress itself. After all, there's no difference - just political posturing. The only difference is that ** most ** Congressmen don't claim their politics is in God's name.
Do you watch the Queen's xmas message?
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Post by bluejay on Sept 29, 2015 0:11:02 GMT -5
What do you think Bert? Is the Pope a Christian?
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 29, 2015 0:19:39 GMT -5
No I didn't watch his speech. I would no more watch his speech to Congress than watch Congress itself. After all, there's no difference - just political posturing. The only difference is that ** most ** Congressmen don't claim their politics is in God's name.
Do you watch the Queen's xmas message? If you didn't watch the Pope's speech, Bert, -why do feel qualified to comment on his speech? Of course, that seems your modus operandi for most of your posts.
I didn't watch the Queen's Christmas message, but then I wouldn't comment on her speech either having not watched it.
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Post by bluejay on Sept 29, 2015 0:37:32 GMT -5
No I didn't watch his speech. I would no more watch his speech to Congress than watch Congress itself. After all, there's no difference - just political posturing. The only difference is that ** most ** Congressmen don't claim their politics is in God's name.
Do you watch the Queen's xmas message? If you didn't watch the Pope's speech, Bert, -why do feel qualified to comment on his speech? Of course, that seems your modus operandi for most of your posts.
I didn't watch the Queen's Christmas message, but then I wouldn't comment on her speech either having not watched it.
OK I confess. I've watched the Queen's speech. Mostly to see what she's wearing and to check out the furniture in the room. Yeah, I know, pretty shallow.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2015 1:48:43 GMT -5
No I didn't watch his speech. I would no more watch his speech to Congress than watch Congress itself. After all, there's no difference - just political posturing. The only difference is that ** most ** Congressmen don't claim their politics is in God's name.
Do you watch the Queen's xmas message? Yes, of course, I watch the Queen's Xmas message. Why, pray tell, not? And yes, I watched the pope speaking to Congress, and I even heard what he said. And I also know how some of the Catholic members of Congress responded to his speech. I also watched his Sunday mass. It was a very educational experience. I'd never know anything about such an event if I'd never seen one. I'm not into being ignorant of either friend or foe. BTW -- the Pope did not omit reference to Jesus -- in fact, many people thought he overused it.
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Post by christiansburg on Sept 29, 2015 7:43:50 GMT -5
What do you think Bert? Is the Pope a Christian? If you go back and look at the Catholic doctrine it is possible you can find some false doctrine there. So if the pope espouses that I wonder if he is a false prophet??
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 7:55:19 GMT -5
I remember the late overseer of WI saying to a current worker in WI that if you make predictions and they don't come about you are a false prophet. He was saying this to a workers who like to speak about the end of time and the predictions in the bible.
I am sure you have heard this sermon. I heard it numerous times in gospel meeting and at conventions. About the reason the United Nations were formed.
Does that mean some workers are false prophets???
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Post by xna on Sept 29, 2015 8:44:09 GMT -5
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Post by bluejay on Sept 29, 2015 9:43:50 GMT -5
Well, I call myself Christian, but I use a home alarm system. It's not that I don't believe God is on my side, it's the simple fact that not everyone follows the laws of the land, or the 10 commandments. And our dog can only do so much to protect our property and possessions.
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Post by bluejay on Sept 29, 2015 9:47:21 GMT -5
What do you think Bert? Is the Pope a Christian? If you go back and look at the Catholic doctrine it is possible you can find some false doctrine there. So if the pope espouses that I wonder if he is a false prophet?? Thanks for your answer. However, if the Pope believes the doctrine to be true, how does a person reconcile that?
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Post by xna on Sept 29, 2015 9:49:47 GMT -5
Well, I call myself Christian, but I use a home alarm system. It's not that I don't believe God is on my side, it's the simple fact that not everyone follows the laws of the land, or the 10 commandments. And our dog can only do so much to protect our property and possessions. Do you see a problem with this logic? - No one can call themselves a Christian that invests in a home alarm. - I am a Christian - I have a home alarm.
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Post by bluejay on Sept 29, 2015 10:18:23 GMT -5
Well, I call myself Christian, but I use a home alarm system. It's not that I don't believe God is on my side, it's the simple fact that not everyone follows the laws of the land, or the 10 commandments. And our dog can only do so much to protect our property and possessions. Do you see a problem with this logic? - No one can call themselves a Christian that invests in a home alarm. - I am a Christian - I have a home alarm. Well, this is how I processed the thread. 1. Bert titled this thread "Is the Pope a Christian?" 2. You replied with a quote from the Pope regarding gun manufactures and Christians. 3. You followed up with an observation/question about his own use of guns and his apparent lack of faith in God's protection, followed by a ( which I interpret as a short way of saying "hypocrite") 4. I followed up with a factual statement that I'm (Christian) and (I have a home alarm system). 5. I then suggested, without using a , that maybe we shouldn't observe a person as lacking in faith solely on their use of protection other than God. 6. I ended my post with a another "witty" fact about our dog. Basically I was refuting your logic, that just because a) the Pope calls himself Christian, and b) he has armed security, that doesn't merit a . So - no - I don't see the problem with my logic. I will readily admit to interpreting that smiley face without fully researching it however. Let me enjoy a second cup of coffee and see if I can then find a problem with my logic ......
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Post by snow on Sept 29, 2015 10:26:06 GMT -5
"Pope Francis has often indicated his desire to help the poor and he often criticizes capitalism so it is only fitting that he sell off the church’s incredible assets at a massive yard sale. According to the The Vatican Billions by Avro Manhattan, “The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc.” Note that it was not billions of dollars but billions of shares! . Moreover, the Church owns several billion dollars’ worth of gold according to the United Nations World Magazine with a large portion of it stored as gold ingots at the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank with the remainder stockpiled in Swiss and British banks. . The Vatican is headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church and represents 1.2 billion people in 180 nations of the world. The Vatican is a two-and-a-half square mile complex on the Tiber River in Rome. . The Church’s real estate holdings are enormous in that they own local churches (220,000 worldwide), massive cathedrals (3,300 worldwide), and colleges (1,358 worldwide) along with monasteries and nunneries all over the globe. The Church has been squirrelling away billions of dollars of inheritance from the faithful that have been invested worldwide for hundreds of years . . Apart from the horded gold, thousands of church buildings, thousands of estates, they own thousands of art, books, sculpture, and relics that are impossible to even guess their value... . ..The Roman Catholic Church is the wealthiest corporation in the world. Nothing compares to it yet it was allegedly started by Jesus Christ. So, the former carpenter, turned itinerate preacher, is the source for the wealthiest institution on earth? Doesn’t pass the smell test.". Read the full article here: donboys.cstnews.com/the-popes-church-is-the-largest-richest-corporation-in-the-worldThey have stolen so much from so many over the years. The inquisition was used also to get some of the richest estates into their hands. Accuse the heir of being ungodly or a witch, kill him and take his holdings. I would love to get into the Vatican vaults!! There is some incredible stuff down there. Price tag? You be the judge! Is he a Christian? Sure but then my respect for what is 'Christian' has diminished a lot over the years. From what I see, they are capable of anything. Many use the title to infringe on other people's rights all the while crying THEIR rights are being infringed on. If the church had to give back all they have stolen over the years they'd be crying that they were being persecuted. I have zero respect for all of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 20:52:25 GMT -5
When the Islamists gain full control of the Middle East and have access to nuclear weapons, we can be sure there will be a huge bulls-eye on the Vatican, I am sorry to say.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 20:55:59 GMT -5
Re Pope and gun manufacture. Can't comment on this, but... Obama is, ostensibly, a man of peace. So he withdrew all forces from Iraq in some haste - and that country fell apart. He didn't get involved in Syria - and that country is torn apart and millions flooding into Europe. He made it clear that America won't get involved in the Ukraine - and this encouraged Russia to expand.
So, maybe three cheers for war and guns?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 20:56:18 GMT -5
What do you think Bert? Is the Pope a Christian? You need to define "Christian" and take it from there.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2015 21:00:31 GMT -5
What do you think Bert? Is the Pope a Christian? If you go back and look at the Catholic doctrine it is possible you can find some false doctrine there. So if the pope espouses that I wonder if he is a false prophet?? What does false prophet have to do with being Christian? Do you have a criteria that everyone can agree on for deciding whether he's false or not?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2015 21:02:08 GMT -5
I remember the late overseer of WI saying to a current worker in WI that if you make predictions and they don't come about you are a false prophet. He was saying this to a workers who like to speak about the end of time and the predictions in the bible. I am sure you have heard this sermon. I heard it numerous times in gospel meeting and at conventions. About the reason the United Nations were formed. Does that mean some workers are false prophets??? I wish I had a dollar for all the workers saying that Communism was the sign of the end of times.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 21:10:51 GMT -5
I remember the late overseer of WI saying to a current worker in WI that if you make predictions and they don't come about you are a false prophet. He was saying this to a workers who like to speak about the end of time and the predictions in the bible. I am sure you have heard this sermon. I heard it numerous times in gospel meeting and at conventions. About the reason the United Nations were formed. Does that mean some workers are false prophets??? I wish I had a dollar for all the workers saying that Communism was the sign of the end of times. IMO, four forms of prediction:
light - I think it will rain this afternoon medium - the stock market is overvalued and is due for a crash heavy - Western civilization is on its last leg. prophetic - Jesus will return in end times.
Godly minded people have been speaking of end times since the Enlightenment, in all probability. And you know what? They are right. All these events portend what the bible said will happen - ie the fall of the churches, the collapse of religious sentiment, the return of the Jews to their homeland etc..
A worker told us when I was a boy we are living in end times as morality is declining. I thought the world was about to end! But I don't think he was wrong.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2015 21:13:56 GMT -5
What do you think Bert? Is the Pope a Christian? You need to define "Christian" and take it from there.Bert -- why didn't you ask what the definition of Christian is? How should we know how to answer your question about the pope if you don't know what you're looking for. Your question is as clear to us as this question would be to you: Do you think my next door neighbor is a Catholic?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 29, 2015 21:16:13 GMT -5
I wish I had a dollar for all the workers saying that Communism was the sign of the end of times. IMO, four forms of prediction:
light - I think it will rain this afternoon medium - the stock market is overvalued and is due for a crash heavy - Western civilization is on its last leg. prophetic - Jesus will return in end times.
Godly minded people have been speaking of end times since the Enlightenment, in all probability. And you know what? They are right. All these events portend what the bible said will happen - ie the fall of the churches, the collapse of religious sentiment, the return of the Jews to their homeland etc..
A worker told us when I was a boy we are living in end times as morality is declining. I thought the world was about to end! But I don't think he was wrong. Which, according to your evidence, means that the end of the world has been imminent since the beginning of time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 22:22:15 GMT -5
IMO, four forms of prediction:
light - I think it will rain this afternoon medium - the stock market is overvalued and is due for a crash heavy - Western civilization is on its last leg. prophetic - Jesus will return in end times.
Godly minded people have been speaking of end times since the Enlightenment, in all probability. And you know what? They are right. All these events portend what the bible said will happen - ie the fall of the churches, the collapse of religious sentiment, the return of the Jews to their homeland etc..
A worker told us when I was a boy we are living in end times as morality is declining. I thought the world was about to end! But I don't think he was wrong. Which, according to your evidence, means that the end of the world has been imminent since the beginning of time. well since 1000 years is as a day to the Lord its only been 6 days since creation for him and the 7th day is nigh upon us...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 0:04:23 GMT -5
Which, according to your evidence, means that the end of the world has been imminent since the beginning of time. well since 1000 years is as a day to the Lord its only been 6 days since creation for him and the 7th day is nigh upon us... just a moment in time
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Post by bluejay on Sept 30, 2015 0:27:28 GMT -5
You need to define "Christian" and take it from there. Bert -- why didn't you ask what the definition of Christian is? How should we know how to answer your question about the pope if you don't know what you're looking for. Your question is as clear to us as this question would be to you: Do you think my next door neighbor is a Catholic? Exactly Bob. I was interested to see if Bert would answer that question. I thought that was a reasonable request, since he started this thread.
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